new thread
Msg #119029 in *JOBS* Created on 08/01/90 at 07:03:00
To: Kelly Martin, From: Jack Decker
Subject: Re: Neckties an occupational h
KM> just a final note before ending this string:
KM> 1)...if you want to post an opinion, please expect someone to
KM> reply to it. not to expect this is quite weird, as this is the
KM> basic idea behind bbs's and nets THE EXCHANGING OF IDEAS.
This time I did not post an "opinion." I posted a factual news article that
I saw in my local newspaper (okay, granted, there may have been some "opinion"
in that, but at least it wasn't MY opinion).
KM> 2)...when I was younger I felt much as you do. now I am older and
KM> a bit wiser, and you too will change as you mature. So, all I
KM> was doing was tossing out a few comments about the REAL WORLD
KM> from my experience. take it or leave it. but understand, this
KM> issue will be looked upon from quite a differant angle as you
KM> age. if this were not true, than the majority of folk from my
KM> generation would all still be wearing long hair, driving vw
KM> vans, and living alternative lifestyles. o.k.? kelly
Not o.k. (as in, no, I don't agree). You make the all too common mistake of
thinking that everyone else thinks the same way that you do. As you have matured,
you should have learned that this is seldom the case. Individuals tend to think
INDIVIDUALLY. It may surprise you to learn that I am 38 years old, so I'm not
a teenager anymore by any stretch of the imagination. But some of us don't
lose ALL of our ideals as we grow older. Again, this is where people differ...
some folks take the attitude that if everyone else is willing to compromise
what they believe, they might as well do it, too. But there ARE others who
feel that if a principle was worth standing up for at 18, it's still worth standing
up for at 38, unless you get new information that causes you to reevaluate the
principle.
In any case, you should not presume to tell people what they will do as they
mature... that is VERY presumptuous on your part, and will not cause you to
be thought highly of by people of any age. If there is one universal truth
that everyone should realize (and most will outwardly agree with this statement,
but inwardly people just don't want to believe this), it is: THE REST OF THE
WORLD DOES NOT THINK AS YOU DO. No two people have the same temprament, intensity
of feeling, life experiences, or any of several other factors that might cause
them to think differently than you do. In fact, one of the most common reasons
for employer dissatisfaction with an employee (in my opinion) is that the employer
has certain mental expectations of the employee but fails to communicate them
to the employee, thinking that "any reasonably intelligent person (that is,
anyone who thinks as I do!) would know what I want here." When the employee
does not perform as expected (because his thinking patterns are different than
that of his employer), the employer blames the employee rather than understanding
that it is necessary to communicate your expectations to your employee (and
to understand that in some cases, your employee may have his own thinking patterns
that make it difficult for him to conform to your expectations, and that does
not necessarily make him a bad person, although it may make him incompatible
with your firm).
One other observation... people who have compromised many of their principles
seem to feel the need to denigrate those who are still holding fast to theirs.
Just like the alcoholic who can't stand to be around folks who have gone "on
the wagon"... it makes them look bad by comparison, so they seem to feel the
need to make nasty cracks about such folks. By the same token, people who tend
to be conformists for some reason just can't stand to leave a non-conformist
alone (even when the non-conformity is not hurting anyone else). I remember
having a high school teacher in the '60's who did not smoke (not common in his
generation) and who was amazed at the number of people who put him down because
he did not pass out cigars when his first child was born (even though he couldn't
stand the smelly things). But I would really hate to be in a world where EVERYONE
thought and acted just alike, wouldn't you? Sure would be boring...
Jack
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Msg #119174 in *JOBS* Created on 08/01/90 at 07:51:01
To: Kelly Martin, From: Prince Myshkin
Subject: Re: NECKTIES AN OCCUPATIONAL H
They might be wearing long hair if they had enough hair left. On the other hand,
as you get older, people also indulge you a little more and you may get away
with being somewhat eccentric -- provided you othrrwise perform and don't work
for IBM. The hair on top may be gone but you van let the fringe around the edges
get as ong as you like. If you can find a VW van in good condition, by all means
drive it. But keep the alterante lifestyle deeply buried.
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Msg #122284 in *JOBS* Created on 08/06/90 at 23:47:14
To: Prince Myshkin, From: Bob Stephens @ 914/701
Subject: Re: Neckties An Occupation
I am sorry I came in the middle of this thread but the jist seems to be
the acceptability of being "yourself" as opposed to conforming for the
sake of the job. You mentioned working for IBM and keeping the alternate
lifestyle private all in one breath and reminds me of the biggest
exception to everyone's (except Jack who may have gone overboard the
other way) argument.
About a year and a half ago I worked (volunteered) to work corners at
Laguna Seca and Sears Point Raceways. Basically it was the closest I
could come to racing but it was fun and I would suggest it to anyone who
is even mildly interested in road racing (SCCA, CART, IMSA etc.)
Anyways... One of the older veteran corner workers was a REAL character...
He was probably 55+, maybe even 60+. He had a Rat-tail (as in braided
strands of hair), wore flourecent Converse All-Stars, skateboarded (he
started relatively late in life he said (45)). All in all he was really
in tune with the skateboarding youth (right down to the "Skateboarding
is not a Crime" bumpersticker) except that he really lived it and he was
old enough to be their grandfather. One day he was talking about the
looks he got when he skateboarded during lunch at work. Finally, I had
to ask where he worked. IBM in Cupertino or Santa Clara, CA! Now maybe,
just maybe he dressed a bit different for work (hard for ME to believe)
but there is no way he could hide the Rat-tail (which he dyed
occasionally) or the skateboard. He was one of their top-programmers...
My point is this... If you believe strongly enough in something you
will find an environment to support and nurture that belief. If not then
you will discard the belief when something better comes along. For some
people that is a part of growing up. Others of us see it as growing OLD.
The choice is yours...
...red
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