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I'm 47 with near-waist length silver hair. Recently I used a shampoo and conditioner (two products for silver hair by the same company). In my haste to get to work I tied it back while rather wet. At work I rolled the pony tail into a ball and concealed it under a touque (chef's hat). Ten hours later I removed the hat and found that a rubber/plastic mass had formed in my hair! Water won't touch it ('rolls right off). I've tested many products but, the only items that begin to dissolve it are petroleum or alcohol based. I can't imagine that these are good for hair. HELP!!!!?
I'm not a chemist, but I've got a pretty strong practical science background.
It sounds like you left some conditioner in your hair and the emulsion
broke down. (Most, if not all, opaque lotion-like products are emulsions, with oil or fat globules are suspended in a watery meduim. Milk and mayonaise are emulsions too.) Then the water evaporated, leaving the oily/waxy stuff behind. Shampoo straight from the bottle might dissolve it. If you opt to use a more active solvent, stay from anything flamable, just for safety. A food grade oil may soften the stuff enough to let you shampoo it out.
Check with the manufacturers hotline, sometimes there is a phone number on the bottle.
BTW..I'm really envious of your hair. I'm 56 and my brown/gray hair is just present where MPB didn't get it. And it won't grow to more than mid back.
Keep us posted. I often put mine up in a bun while wet too, especially if I'm going to work under a vehicle. Hair getting caught under the wheels of a mechanic's creeper really sucks!
David, Thank-you for the response! (It looks like I might receive some practical advice from this site. I've had many "ideas" from other sites including cutting it all off and starting over). Your diagnosis sounds on target. I haven't tried the undiluted shampoo. Would that be best tried on dry hair? I have tried peanut oil. It tends to soften it but, the shampoo to remove it leaves the problem in place. The product(s) do not have a hotline printed on them. That was the first thing I looked for. I found their website but, it's under construction. Can I list the company here? I posted this problem here earlier, it appeared on the site, but later dissappeared. So, I removed the company's name. The best solvent I've yet found is diluted isopropyl alcohol (plastic lens cleaner) but, add the water and shampoo to rinse it out and the cycle comes full circle (sigh). ...long hair caught in the wheels of a creeper?!! A living HELL!? Do you have to carry the creeper inside to untangle it from your hair in front of a mirror? Please keep thinking of solutions for my problem. I definately will keep you posted. Would a list of the ingredients be helpful (as listed on the bottles)?
Sounds like you've been living with the problem for some time. Sounds
nasty.
I just checked the label of a conditioner bottle and confirmed that a chief ingredient is cetyl alcohol. Cetyl is a long chain
(16 carbon) alcohol. Dictionary says it's water insoulble, and used as an emolient in cosmetics. Wouldn't be surprised if the stuff in your hair is a lump of hardened cetyl alcohol! They probably had forced it into some kind of emulsion with water and a lighter alcohol, or with a volatile detergent that evaporated.
If you can't get thru to the company who made your conditioner, try another conditioner company, as long as the first two or three ingredients on the label match. The ingredients are listed in order of amount. The way you describe the problem, only the first few ingredients are present in enough quantity to be the cause.
Isopropyl won't hurt your hair. If you can really loosen the shit up and untangle it with lots of isopropyl, then you might be able to shampoo it it out.
There are also some citrus-peel oil household cleaners around that have great solvent action, but are supposed to be pretty safe.
As a final suggestion, if you have the time, put several dollops of conditioner on a plate, like 8 nickel-sized spots around the rim.
Let them dry out, then test to see what dissolves them before you try it on your hair. Kerosene and paint thinner will work, but you don't want to go that route on your hair! I've used them to get a waxy buildup off my bathtub. Always suspected the waxy buildup was from conditioner!
Well, I'm not convinced I completely understand the nature of your problem, but here is my suggestion anyway. Take a long, hot bath, soaking the affected area the whole time. When I say long, I mean long enough to get you quite pruny. Hopefully, osmosis will soften the hard mass by adding moisture. Heat will soften the mass by decreasing the viscosity.
If this doesn't work, you might want to try using peanutbutter straight. Peanutbutter can help with this sort of problem in three ways. First, the oil in peanutbutter acts as a lubricant. Second, peanutbutter is itself an emulsion, consisting of both oil-based and water-based compounds. This should help to dissolve the mass by attacking from these two fronts. Finally, the fibrous content of peanutbutter acts as a mild abrasive.
Peanutbutter comes out fairly readily with shampoo.
I found out about the peanutbutter technique from my research with lice when a lice epidemic hit the girls' school. One way to eradicate lice without using poison is to smother them with vaseline. The problem is that vaseline is extremely hard to remove from hair (unless you use peanutbutter). The peanutbutter facilitates the emulsification of the vaseline.
I'd really like to know what products you used. And, was it just a reaction between two products, or was your hairtie also involved in the mix somehow?
Victor, Thank-you for the reply! Please understand that I do not mean to be difficult. Concerning your suggestions; Soaking the problem unfortunately is not practical without a snorkel or scuba gear. Imagine placing a 6" funnel onto the crown of your head. Roughly speaking that is what I am trying to deal with :( As for the peanut butter, I have two allergies; bee stings and peanuts. I did try peanut oil but, with little success. The hairtie was involved but, only in that it was stuck and had to be cut off. The product(s) were "Total Hair Fitness" for men (for silver hair) shampoo and conditioner, two products. "Distributed by Brylcreem, Professional Division, J.B. Williams Co., Inc., Glen Rock, NJ, Made in Canada". I no longer have the shampoo bottle but, the conditioner's first few ingredients are; "water, cetyl alcohol, dicetyldimonium chloride, emulsifying wax N.F., stearamidopropyl demethylamine, peg-8 stearate, fragrance, citric acid, disodium EDTA, hydrolyzed keratin, panthenol (pro-vitamin B-5),chamomile extract, aloe extract, ...". (Webmaster; if you need to delete this follow-up please e-mail to explain. Thank-you).
I guess I don't understand how you can't soak the hair without scuba gear, but I guess I'll accept it. Maybe, then, if you wrapped your head in a wet towel for a couple hours....
I have heard of a similar thing happening with mane and tail shampoo/conditioner being applied to hair that had been color treated. I think it also has an emulsifying wax in it. Perhaps what is happening is similar to what happens when you beat cream to get the butter out, only in this case, it's not butter but wax.
After a quick review of organic chemistry, it seems that several reactions could take place to form a plastic/rubber mass. One could be a reaction called alkylation, in which amines (like stearamidopropyl dimethylamine) reacts with alkyl halides (like dicetyldimonium chloride) to form a very large molecule that could be very insoluble. I don't know how the heck this could happen in hair.
Example:
CH3CH2CH2CH2NH2 + CH3CH2Cl -------> CH3CH2CH2CH2-NH-CH2CH3
(butylamine) (ethyl chloride) (ethyl-n-butylamine)
This product can react with ethyl chloride again to give another CH3 in place of the H that is attached to the N. So a reaction could ahve occurred that resulted in a some long chain polymer.
There are also other reaction that can take place between amines and acids like stearate, and also alcohols. You might need something like nail polish remover to dissolve the stuff, but try the mineral oil and detergent first.
Hi,
I'm a chemist, but it's difficult to say which substance caused your problem. As cetearyl alcohol is contained in most conditioners, I suppose it was the wax. I would try it once more with isopropyl alcohol, use lots of it and try to get the wax out with a towel. Afterwards let your hair simply dry, don't wash it out. Then it will look probably rather dry and frizzy, so you might have to make something like an olive oil cure. And be very cautious with fire, isopropyl alcohol is highly flamable. Be patient, earlier or later the wax is out of your hair (and of course don't use this bullshit anymore.)
Rainer, Thanks for the go ahead with the isopropyl alcohol. I'd always heard and/or read that alcohol was bad for hair. But then, having the hair encased in a mass is probably more harmful? Wax does seem to be the most likely culprit (it repels water and water-based liquids, alcohol dissolves it, dry heat or hair drier softens it only to harden again when cool). Please explain why the hair should not be washed after using the alcohol? I can cure many foods with an assortment of cures but,...what is an olive oil cure and is there more than one ingredient? At what point should I use shampoo and/or conditioner (other than the product mentioned 5/1)? I appreciate yur help as does my wife! Jeff
Hi Jeff,
alcohol is indeed not the best for the hair, because it's drying out (means removing oil), but if you don't use it regularly but only to remove the wax, I can't imagine that it causes any damage to the hair. At least I hope it will help to remove the wax faster. I suggested to let it simply dry, because you said that you had difficulties to wash it out. The alcohol is normaly drying much faster than water, so I thought just wait until it drys itself. After that I suggested an olive oil cure (for example), to bring some oil back to the hair. This is: Two yolks (? sorry, my bad english), about five table spoons of olive oil and two coffee spoons of lemon juice. Mix this well, put it on the hair and wash it out one or two hours later with shampoo. You will probably have to wash it twice. After that use a conditioner (I can't recommend any labels, every hair is different and everyone has his/her favourite products). What works best for my girlfriend doesn't work for me and contrary the same.
I'm not wondering why this wax is difficult to remove, I guess you know how it is if you have too much of it on the car windows. There you also try to remove it with isopropanol and it's nevertheless not easy to get away. I never had your problem, so I can't only hope that it helps, I've no other idea. There are stronger wax dissolving liquids, but I wouldn't try them out at the hair, better waiting. In every case it's a shame that products like the conditioner that you have used exist, it has obviously never been seriously tested.
Rainer, THANK-YOU for your help!!! I'll keep you posted about the progress. Jeff
How are you faring with your problem? Best wishes.
David
David, (I was sure that you would be following along) Well,...it's slow but, it's progress. In addition to being very long my hair is very thick so, using a spray bottle I soak a small area with the alcohol and remove what I can with a towel or rag. Of course this causes the dissolved wax (not picked up by the towel) to move further down the hair(s). Then at work I again put on a chef's hat which causes it all to stick together again. After work I try to reach the point that I was prior to work only to find that some of the wax has melted/oozed/gravitated to an area previously cleared (sigh). In public I have to wear a hat to cover it which, (you guessed it) sets me back again. So, it's eight steps forward and seven steps back. Another problem; as the hair is being freed I'm finding some major snarls, some breakage, and split ends (which I've never had to deal with). But, progress is a plus no matter how small. Just knowing what the hell the stuff is has been a major positive. Any further ideas or suggestions? Jeff
Did you try undiluted shampoo on dry hair? Also..I've noted that the yellow, waxy buildup that conditioner leaves on my bathtub gets real soft when it is soaked in water for a while. It doesen't disolve, but it gets soft enough to wipe away. I think Rainer suggested this already, but how about going swimming for about an hour or two?
Good luck and keep posting.
David.
Another thing to try would be a good clarifying shampoo. At this point I'm thinking that whatever you do will damage your hair somewhat. The task is to minimize the damage as much as possible.
I have a couple of other suggestions that I would try on myself, but bear in mind that they are entirely untested, so use your own judgment.
Try applying some drycleaning solvent. Have something absorbent nearby to soak up the solvent/wax solution. I bet paper towels or rags used by mechanics (to soak up grease) would be more effective than a towel.
Using a low setting, iron your hair between sheets of absorbent material. The idea here is to heat it up enough to reduce the viscosity enough for the substance to travel to the absorbent material, where it will be sucked up by capillary action. I bit of experimentation with a flake of the substance to see what the melting point is might help.
Do NOT put Dry cleaning fluid on your hair!!!!!!!the best way to get the wax out would be to spend an hour or so in a sauna letting the heat warm the wax up and then gently combing it out an hour or so should do it providing you have a warm shower to shift the remainder off.
Incedentally over here in the UK primary schools recomend using peanut butter to get wax crayons out of hair - I suppose its worth a try!
Peanutbutter was already suggested and ruled out because of allergies.
Victor, It's nice to know that you haven't given up on this. Thanks for following along! 'Any new ideas since the site chemist determined the source of the problem? Jeff
Russ, Thank-you for your advice and suggestions! While I suspect that the dry cleaning fluid would dissolve the wax I have not and will not try it. I'd prefer to remove the wax while the hair is still attached to my head and my eyes are able to see it.
I very much like the idea of the suana but, I don't have access to one. Recently, while working in our yard, flower beds, etc., I noticed that the wax had softened. AHA! (I thought, recalling Rainer's evaluation and deduction that the mass was wax). The increased body heat and warmth of the sun must be causing this (duh)! So, I tried a hair dryer (hand held) which does locally melt it (the wax). But, because my hair is (or was before this nightmare began) nearly waist length it is not released from another part of the mass enabling me to comb it. I've come to the conclusion that using the hair dryer and wiping away the softened layer with a towel (thank-you again Rainer) is the most practical at-home solution. But, DAMN it's slow going! A salon-style dryer turned on high would certainly speed up the process and probably bake a few brain cells, too. I lost a few of those in the sixties and seventies and prefer to now preserve what is left. I have considered standing outside during our spring thunderstorms with a length of metal pointed to the sky but, no ('goes back to the preservation lifestyle). Perhaps I should try sitting in the closed idling car in the garage with the heater turned to max? (...just a joke!!) How, about a microwave oven? (...just another). Thanks again, and please keep thinking of solutions. Jeff
You could lie down on a black car on a hot day. Kill two birds with one stone. Wax the car and fix your hair.
Seriously, though, for the length of your hair you could iron it between pieces of paper. The paper would suck up the wax. I'd use the polyesther setting and no steam. The steam would open up the scales and help to cling onto the wax more.
Have you tried dissolving the waxy stuff with mineral oil? After using mineral oil, you'll need to get that out too. You will need to use a detergent that has a long chain hydrophobic tail with a charged head. One detergent that is very good is sodium dodecyl sulfate. The hydrophobic tail will attach to the wax-oil mix, and the charged sodium head will make the whole thing soluble in water. Many shampoos already contain sodium lauryl sulfate, which is the same thing. But the trick is to dissolve the wax with an oily substance, then use a detergent to wash everything out. Of course, there are cleaning substances that are used to wash your hands after working on a greasy car engine (like Gunk or Gojo), but I don't know about using something like that in your hair.
Planner, (Have you been sitting there for three plus weeks following along in silence)? I am very pleased that you have responded! I initially attacked this problem mechanically speaking with mineral oil. My thinking was that if I separated the hairs with the oil to prevent them from sticking to one another I would at least be able to break down this mass to allow an, as yet, unknown solvent to reach all of the wax, plastic, or whatever it was/is. I didn't realize that the oil was acting as a solvent. Initially the oil seems to work well but, after awhile it seems to weaken and the adhering qualities of the wax again return. That's why I gave up on it. Is this due to the weakening of the oil due to dispersement? If so, would I have to continue using the oil in one sitting until the mass has broken down or there is a greater ratio of oil to wax? Keep in mind that this mass is the size of a large fist. In another message you suggested (rather,mentioned) hand cleaners. I have tried "Goop" hand cleaner again, with temporary results. They claim that it is non-toxic and promote its use on stains on clothes. I've used it for years on clothes to remove food stains. PLEASE get back to me as soon as possible. I've been try to solve this problem for months. With the help of those that I've met here I feel that this will be resolved. Thank-you! Thank-you!