new thread
I dont know if this is the proper place to ask this, but the gay board is very sparse and it seems theres more Christians here that can answer so here goes:
I have been wondering are you going to be excluded from Heaven because of your sexual orientation? Some seems to think so because Paul wrote that the homosexual will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but it varies a lot in different translation, some says effiminate, some says homosexual. But it seems that not even once, did Jesus said anything about same sex relationship or anything like it. So I want to understand, am I going to hell for being gay and you can't be gay and saved? or is it that once you're saved you're saved and just love your neighbor (I know that is hard because some neighbors are jerks!) and things like that? Or do I only love God by following the law of moses which seems to (sounds questionable) condemm homosexuality.
Mods: If the term "homosexuality" sounds too offensive feel free to change it to a more "politically correct" term...
the way I look at it and it is what I tell some one when
they start preaching about God and gays is I just ask them
if God doesn't like homosexuals why does he make them?
Cool answer, Ron!
And to Tai Fu, here's my reply to your above question:
I was raised a Christian Scientist, --- so we tend to view Biblical interpretations a little "differently" (definitely less literal) than most other Christian denominations...
Who ever said "Heaven" was a physical place? Maybe instead, might it not be a "divine state of Mind"? If Jesus said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" (see Luke 17, verse 21, --- although there are many statements in the Bible that allude to this concept as well), what the heck do Christians think that is supposed to mean??
I no longer attend any church (at the moment, at least). Wouldn't it be rather hypocritical of me, --- if I suddenly found out I had a terminal illness, for example --- to suddenly return to attending church out of fear that I wouldn't make it to a *place* called "Heaven"? How we live our life as a whole, --- not any one, singled-out, ridiculous factor --- should judge us as "fit" or "unfit" as a moral & ethical & loving & sincere person. If so in human eyes... don't you think God would at least have an equal or better sense of logic & fairness, too???
I never asked to be born gay (and I certainly never would "CHOOSE" to be so, as some self-righteous Christians refer to the gay "life-style"). But I most certainly found out the hard way that I am NOT heterosexual (and, believe me, after 6 years of being married during the '80s to a wonderful woman, nobody can dare tell me I didn't try!). If God is so unfair-minded as to throw me into a place called Hell, just because of that one stupid little factor of being gay, then "Heaven" must be painted "battleship grey", --- and be a very depressing place to hang your hat forever & ever...
Don't ever let others tell you to believe things that totally defy common logic, fairness, and thoughtfulness. If God is not a kind & loving God (which I do believe He/She actually is), then I want no part of that so-called Deity, --- and the place where they live and pressure others to "fit in" in order to go there after death can just... "go South" (lol)!
- Ken
I feel that Jesus came to earth to free everyone from the law, because Jesus himself didn't like religious scholors that made stuff complicated and really didn't care about people's needs. He hung out mostly with sick, tax collectors, prostitudes, people that is considered "unholy" by those religious authorities. But now a lot of churches have become the very religious authorities that Jesus fought against. They find stuff like long hair, gayness, and stuff and make our lives miserable with the whole "fire and brimstone" stuff...
I know Jesus made all the law and stuff, knowing it would become like the pharisees, sometime you do wonder about God's wisdom, you know its like sometimes you can see the big picture and stuff othertimes you dont really understand why he did this. But for some reason God's plan always comes out good.
tai,
please go to gaychristian.net....
lot of information there.
Check out the story of David & Jonathan in Samuel I & II, then judge for yourself. Love 'surpassing that of women' is what they shared.
Now you know these religious questions always bring varied opinions. It all depends on what you believe. If you ask me, we all go to the same place when we pass away, and what we did or were during our life makes no difference to your destination.
Depends if you choose to accept what is written in the Bible or not.
Exactly. Different translations, different slants on a point of view.
A few years ago I got into a heated argument on a board such as this. Somebody started lashing out at "those disgusting faggots" and other such language. They started throwing verses from the Bible at me which, in my view, were gobbledegook that had no bearing on what was being discussed.
I said to them, if God made me, and being gay is not a choice, and God sends me to hell for being gay, wouldn't God be punishing me for his own mistake? And wouldn't that be a paradox, God making a mistake?
If I were you, I would not worry. You are who you are. And don't start worrying about what the Bible may or may not say about men with long hair either. If you are not hurting anyone by your actions, there's nothing you can't do in this world.
Take care
LukeB
Since we are all referencing God in a Christian light, I will respond to give insight into the correct doctrine of Christian teachings. God doesn't send anyone to hell for being gay. That isn't how God works. God becomes man and dies for our sins as a perfect sacrifice, and accepting him as Christ is what covers us in grace and mercy and makes us clean to enter Heaven to worship God for eternity. What we do in our actions is important, but belief in Christ Jesus is what saves someone. I am a horrible sinner, and screw up all the time. I have the ability to ask God for forgivness and am granted it as such. The sins of a homosexual are no worse than the sins of myself, a heterosexual. Even one sins gives us a need for our Savior. Is acting on one's homosexuality a sin? In Christian beliefs, yes. But sins dont damn someone if their is a true and deep love of Christ and God for what He did for us.
I have gay christian friends, one for example believes if he was heterosexual, the course of his life would have led him in a direction that isn't the path that led him to Jesus. Regardless of his hardships in this life due to his homosexuality, his deep love for Christ will still allow him to be with God one day.
While I like the majority of you response, I'd like to remind you that there are many different types of Christian churches, --- all of which claim to own the "correct doctrine of Christian teachings" There are Catholic Christians, Protestants, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Assembly of God, Quakers, Christian Scientists... And the all (I repeat: they ALL) say their interpretation of the Bible and of Christianity in general is "correct" only in their denomination's eyes.
- Ken
You might find this debate interesting:
I have been told, but havent checked, that in the bible in the same place it says homosexuality is wrong, just below it says that you must not cut your hair.
The Bible says that God sent Jesus to die for everyone (John 3:16) and whoever believes that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven & that he died in our place, and rose in 3 days will be saved. If you believe that you will be in heaven. If you do believe in Jesus you should follow his teachings as well, which says to not be sexually immoral. This means don't have sex before marriage, and marriage is between a man & woman.
Feel free to post more questions about God's word.
I'm not sure that this topic is really relevant to this website, but since it's here, I will just post this link to an organization which is dedicated to helping people who are same-sex attracted live a chaste, holy, and healthy life. I post it for those who are *interested*.
http://www.couragerc.net
I quite agree.
Uwe
All that the Bible says about this topic would easily fit on one side of a 3x5 index card. All it says about long hair would easily fit on the other side. All of such was written by men other than Jesus; He said nothing about either topic.
These men all lived in countries with no major research universities, they had access to virtually no libraries, they had never traveled outside of one small area of the world, none of them had graduated from high school, none of them had ever read a newspaper or watched television, and none of them had access to the Internet. By today's standards they would be considered ignorant. They had less information to go on than every single user of this Hyperboard, so don't put too much faith in what they wrote. Other people don't; that is why we have so many different flavors of Christianity. We have a lot more information than they had 2000 years ago, all of us do, and many of us have come together to form congregations where we share interpretations of scripture in accordance with what we now know and see about us today, rather than trying to second-guess what was meant in the context of the knowledge of mostly-uneducated people in some small area two millennia ago.
If you want to be involved with a church, just look around. You should have little trouble finding a congregation that accepts gay people and longhaired men. If you have to, use the telephone, use the Internet. The Apostle Paul did not have these resources at his fingertips, but you do. Use them.
Bill
In the Book of Thomas the Contender, Jesus tells the disciple Thomas that after death those who were once believers but have remained attached to things of "transitory beauty" will be consumed "in their concern about life" and will be "brought back to the visible realm".
I don't see heaven or hell, or any reference whatsoever to homosexuality or the likes in those passage I read. And I believe that IF there is a God, then it would not matter AT ALL. Homosexuality doesn't cause murder, violence or other things that would be against God's teachings; so why would it matter?
