new thread
Oh no, here we go, another MLHH discrimination story.
Mr Bragi, Matt Brown, i can empathise with you now.
I went to work early in the morning. All was well until the Area Manager arrived mid-day, and quite unexpectedly. You know how you get bad vibes off people, well she is one of those. I have a knack for picking that off people. Just by looking at her overweight frame and bobcut, and by the way she speaks, could tell that she dislikes longhaired guys and was very dominating and controlling. After my shift finished,she said she needed to speak to me about some things(doesn't this sound alot like Bragi's story). First she said i needed to shave, i said "ok, no problems". Second , to remove the earring , "ok, no problems". The third request, more like a demand, was a shock to me. She said i need to get a haircut. I wasen't rude, aggressive or hostile, i just kept calm and assertive. I told her that i wanted to see the dress/grooming policies of the company. She looked through some files and couldn't find it. I then told her that i need to see the dress code policies to make sure she didn't make it up. She then told me that when i signed the contracts and policies forms, when i joined the company, that it was clearly stated that men's hair must kept short, clean and proffesional. Her tone was getting aggressive. She then said she would fax it over to me as soon as she found it. This is the part that ticks me off. She DEMANDED i get my hair cut before my next shift. My next shift is in 2 days time(i'm only parttime/casual) and she said i cannot come to work unless i am "cleaned up". 2 days notice if very short amount of time and definitely not enough time for me to make a decision about something i cherish so much. In her ignoramouse mind, long hair on men = messy + unprofessional. I don't think she realises that i always ponytail my hair when i work and that i keep it clean and neat. She wouldn't compromise either, in regards to style. She just kept saying that it is "company policy".
I argued rationally and she was still thick. I even said to her "but my hair isn't that long(yet)". I was gonna get into the whole "my hair is my pride and it means so much to me" but i just couldn't be bothered arguing with this dictator bitch.
Some guys might be indifferent over their long hair, meaning they missed a few periodic haircuts or just left it to grow. For me, my hair is very important and i am only just starting to enjoy the journey. I still want to grow it much longer and it makes me so happy to have the freedom to be myself(until now). Not one guy at my work has long hair, the longest is probably 2", so comparatively my hair is "super long", in her mind.
I'm not cutting to please someone else. I really enjoy my job and i love the money but i think it is time to resign. It's a bit dissolussioning though, if i get in trouble for my hair length in retail, imagine how much crap i'm gonna cop when i start working in an office job around clients etc. and by then my hair is gonna be like mid back or more.
I'm not trying to rebel against 'society' or go against the grain. I am just trying to be myself, and having long hair is part of my personal freedom and happyness. They don't understand that. I am very obsessive and in love with my hair, i couldn't possible cut it off. Just the very though of turning up to work on Thursday with a buzz cut or similiar is very depressing. I didn't even bother mentioning gender discrimination because yet again "its company policy" answer.
I asked her why wasen't my hair a problem before and now it is. She said that my hair has been a problem for a while now but she said that i was only formally informed today, meaning action must be taken to rectify the situation.
I said to her "how short do you want my hair then?", she bluntly said "you know what short is!, she used my managers short haircut as an example". And i said "oh so i gotta come to work with a buzz cut". It's just a joke the whole thing. I could see that she was getting tense because i wasen't complying. Everytime i refuted she just said "sorry, it's company policy". I left saying "ok, looks like i've got no choice but to get my haircut by Thursday" with a pseudo smile on my face. Once i said this, she seemed satisfied and dismissed me from her office. I felt a bit shaky afterwards and was very pissed off as to why my hair was even mentioned.
I can move on a find a new job. I just feel rather shocked at this whole incident. It is really very ridiculous to even mention my hair. It doesn't affect my work productivity and it stays in a ponytail clean and neat. I really hate society now, it's all just one big joke. Shame though, i really like working there and i am just starting to get good at my job and everyone is nice, except for her, but she only comes in to inspect the store like once a month or so. When she is in the store, my manager has his tail between his legs, i don't wanna became like that. I think i will stop writing now. I have made my decision already.
Come to Taiwan or something, you know teach english or something (lots of people do that) cause no one cares about hair in Taiwan. If one manager gives trouble then there will always be someone else who wont.
In fact they'd hire you just cause you look white and holds an Austrilian Passport. and another thing, there are so many longhairs in retail jobs (where you'd think dress codes would matter the most) its like they're everywhere.
This may not be a popular position but I have a background in stuff like this. But Australia is not my bag. First off, it does no one any good to start casting aspersions at another. I know she has pissed you off, it would me too, but assassinating her character is not a luxury any employee has. Not legally and not practically.
Second – reality check: She is your boss. Bosses hire and they fire. She may be acting for another, namely HER boss. It may be her JOB to get you either short haired or out.
Thirdly – and my experience will uphold this – your goose is cooked, dude. If you don’t comply you will be toasted some other way eventually. Start looking. And don’t quite, dude. Get fired!
If I were in your place and felt as strongly as you do, I would definitely not buckle under, but I would have to weigh the reality of a most unpleasant situation – which is “I am a goner” even if I have legal protections. They aren’t worth squat if I am not wanted. There are way around everything.If you got a pardon from the Prime Minister - your relationship with this women has gone south and your happiness working there is history anyway.
In the US, the retail clothing biz is comprised mostly of young women and gay men. I don’t know if you are straight or gay – but I am wondering if there is an undercurrent of real sexual discrimination going on if you are straight. Just a thought. I say this because long hair would certainly NOT be offensive in retail where fashion is also dominant. If you are gay though, then scratch that.
Let me ask you this: Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy?
Jeez, I just joined this group. Heavy duty S%$T, man!
Hope I've been helpful.
Peace,
Danny S
dannyschwarzhoff.net
Just when i think people have "progressed" in society i hear another story about someone's psychotic reasons for someone else to cut hair. Jean i really think you should ignore that loser. Seems to me that people like her have problems of their own, and that's why they are harsh on other people that seem to "have something that they never had". I wouldn't worry too much about it Jean, because as the years go by, people are becoming more "accepting". And if you are planning to go to a college and get a degree, i don't think people will dare fire you from your job just because of your hair. I left my job too, because they didn't like the way i looked, but before this job i used to work at a punk/gothic store and they didn't have ANY sort of rules about how you should look. Almost everyone in that store had long hair and no one cared. Lets say that you cut your hair for that job...how is that going to change the thought process of that fat ass shaved rooster? she will definately find something else to nag about, because she obviously has problems in her "personal" life, and only used the "company policy" as backup to take you down.
Don't change man, keep your hair, let others change.
-Oleg-
There are alot of people in the world.
Ofcourse there are going to be alot of black (shorthaired.. nagging..) sheep.
Go to work on Thursday, with your hair intact, and see what happens. Do they have unemployment benefits in Australia? If it is anything like in the United States, if they fire you, you could collect unemployment, otherwise if you just quit, you could not. Oh course, I don't know how that works in Australia, but it may be worth checking out.
If that lady tries to give you crap about your hair, tell her where to stick it and refuse to comply. You already made up your mind that you would rather find another job than comply with this one. Would be interesting to see just how far they are willing to "push it". I do think it is time for people to stand-up to those obnoxious overbearing control freaks. Thankfully, where I work, it is how you perform, not how you look, that counts (and there are a few longhairs where I work, with hair longer than mine (and one "longbeard" as well)).
I spoke to my mum and that i am going to do. I am just going to shave, look neat and ponytail my hair nicely with gel. If they say anything i am leaving.
Do they have unemployment benefits in Australia?
Yes, AUSstudy for teenagers and students. I cannot register for it though, since my parents both work and have assets.
Jean, I'm sorry you ran into a closed minded bitch, but there are plenty. First of all, they're lucky to have you and if they're willing to loose you over "company policy" that she can't even prove exists, then they'll end up with mindless employees as they normally do.
I'm glad you never mentioned that you considered cutting your hair, just don't do it. I did it over a stupid job in 2002 and I regreted it instantly. After 3 months I was sick of that job. I'm sure that if you stop working there you have plenty of options, for instance, you mentioned you worked retail.... what about music stores or recording studios? Pharmacies don't seem to care much either. Even bartending in some american chain like TGI Friday's (if they exist down under) sounds like a possibility.
If I were you I'd show up with my hair as always, and if the bitch says something, just ask her if she found the written company policy that requires you to have a stupid haircut. If she doesn't have it, well, she might as well send you home, maybe she'll drop it. If it is in fact written company policy, then tell her you're not willing to work for a company that has such a stupid policy, and quit.
Either way you keep your hair, and I'm sure that you'll find a great job if it becomes impossible to work there and keep your hair. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, you still live at home and have no debt... so you can take as long as you want to find a job that makes you happy.
Just my two cents.
My hair storyBrother,
I can't tell you what to do about a job or money, only you can make the choce for you. I will tell you that I cut my hair many times for employment. I never felt myself with short hair though, just another cog in the corporate wheel.
Again I can't advise you about money, jobs, etc. I can only tell you that I lost a long part of my life trying to be someone I'm not. Good luck with your decision, sounds like you are keeping the hair. I wish you, and all here, the very best in all your decsions, Keep it long and strong!
By the way, Eat A Peach For Peace! RedTail Wolf
I don't NEED the money or the job. I am still a uni student and i live at home, debt free. I have little expenses. If i quit my job i may need to reduce my short term expenditure, until i get a new job, but nothing drastic like starvation , lol. Although , it's not like i need money to survive. Most of my money is spent on games and other corporate crap in this world. It's just a shame, i enjoy working there and i am very dedicated to my work.
hi 80s,
sry to see that there is discrimination on your workplace ...
such people are the worst people in my eyes - and there are way too much of them (btw: u can now imagine which KIND OF people helped hitler to gain might in germany) ...
if there is no dress code which don't allows long hair you shouldn't be concerned - u keep it neat and, except of that woman, no one ever complained about your hair ...
if she wants to fire you, you should try to talk with anybody, who is "over" that woman - i don't think she has the highest position in that company with that attitude ...
and in case they really fire you (cos even other people in higher positions have the same attitude), it's a lil bit stupid in the moment but companies who only judge their employees by their appearence instead of power and encouragement aren't worth to work there ...
and you can also try to get them by law, if they fire you (maybe there are longhaired women in your company - try to use this as argument if she comes again with that discriminating anti-longhair crap ...
i hope SHE get fired :)
and: DO NOT cut your hair cos of a job - there are so much other jobs and companies, which will award your encouragement and power instead of your appearence ...
much luck and hope to see more pics of your great, curly mane !
ALH
Thanks for the kind and encouraging words. I came to the conclusion, i am not going to cut my hair for some dictator. I don't need the money and i am under no obligations, i can simply walk out. I bet if i cut my hair she will just find something else to whinge about. I have conformed with my apearance all my life in school, now it's time for me to be what i want to be in life, i am past that stage.
My happiness and wellbeing is supreme. I don't think i would be the same person if i cut my hair. Mentally and physically.
I bet if i cut my hair she will just find something else to whinge about.
Hey 80's_Metal, you are right. I gleaned these two lines from your reply, and they say it best. This dictator of a boss of yours probably already has it in for you, and cutting your hair will likely not change her attitude. You are wise enough to see this. The worst case scenario of course would be losing both your long hair and your job.
If you are fired, you might take legal action.
Another option would be to picket in front of the place that fired you. Picketing will scare away lots of potential customers, costing them thousands of dollars in lost business.
One more option, if you still have your job, is to spy on your boss and catch them in a compromising position, if possible. If you can pull this off, you can get them off your back real fast. This is a ruthless blackmail tactic, but people do it all the time. This can go 2 ways:
1)You will gain their respect by showing that person that you will stop at nothing to get them off your back.
2)You will make a lifetime bitter enemy of that person.
If you feel the above ruthless tactics would hurt your sense of happiness and well being, you could quietly find another job. (For me, it would likely increase my sense of happiness and well being, knowing that I defeated a tyrant. I was bullied enough when I was a kid, so I tend to be outspoken on these issues.)
Absalom
Honestly, i couldn't be bothered with silly games like these. I would rather just let it go and move on. I'm not one for that revenge tactics. It does sound like fun though, i think i can call you Sauraman , hehehe.
Hi,
I'm very sorry to hear that there's such a negative attitude towards longhairs in other parts of the world. I live in the Netherlands and long hair here seems to be the choise of a lot of men nowadays. Short is still the choise of most, but you get the point.
You are still very young and there are plenty of, may I say dead end jobs left. Why would you give up something you love, and are passionate about for a couple bucks that can be made elsewhere.
I recommend not showing up on your next shift and tell them good bye on the phone. It's simply unacceptable for them to give you a two day notice. I walked out on my job when they told me my contract wouldn't be extended on the same day would be my last there (I was going to quit that exact same day, so it worked out pretty good). Don't let people walk over you. You may be young, but they should still treat you with respect
The best of luck,
F_the_Facts
Well no, i was quite shocked actually. Long hair is everywhere in OZ, very common. I was even more shocked that i was never even warned over my hair in the past, it came out of nowhere.
Dude, i agree 110%
Yeah, that really annoyed me. I'm not very assertive, even if i try to be. Sometimes i just blank my mind out and nod my head in agreement when i'm really shocked at something. Atleast i made a stance and defended myself, to an extent.
Really upset to hear that story Jean.
Your right tho, she will find something else to get you on, she maybe very insecure about herself and her abilities. Instead of building teamwork and motivation the only 'managering' she understands is 'do this, do that' - That is NOT being a manager. She won't go far - you will, because you have a strong mind, self belief and self motivation and pride.
Best of luck to you Jean, stay true to yourself. Dave.
This is almost identical to my situation a few years back. I'm in the UK, I don't know where you are, but I suspect that even with different laws in different states, the basic principles will be similar.
In the UK, a dress code has to be written down and be equally restrictive for both genders to be enforceable. In my case, it was being made up on the hoof by one person who didn't like long hair on men. I complained through my line manager informally and that put a stop to it, as they realised that if it went to law, I would win. I was not only being discriminated against on a gender basis, but on an individual one.
Again, in the UK, companies will have policies on equal opportunities, bullying and harassment - I suspect that there will be something similar for US companies. Ask about this. If necessary, make a complaint using such a policy. It is usual to do this informally at first as a successful complaint will result in people losing their jobs.
Stick to your original request to see the written dress policy. Ask if there is a bullying and harassment/equal opportunities policy. Speak to your line manager (as this is the usual route for such complaints) and suggest that you may wish to pursue a complaint of bullying and harassment. This usually has an effect similar to a bolt of lightning striking the proverbials.
News and Views Current affairs discussionsOkay - I see that you are in Australia. I'm not sure of the legal position, but as with US law, it stems from English law. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't something about harassment/ equal opportunities existent.
News and Views Current affairs discussionsYes, we have all those laws and legislations here too.
I might look into it. I have a good feeling that it will be futile but its worth a stab. I have never seen any long haired men in the company, even from other stores. I might get a job at K-mart(Walmart in USA) because there are longhairs there.
'Just by looking at her overweight frame and bobcut'
Maybe none of us is immune from making judgements about people based on their appearance.
You have a sharp eye! Good point.
jeeeees i'm sorry to hear that you're in this situation Jean.
I've started to get more worried about my hair at work too. A few people have started to say things "isnt it about time you got a haircut" etc. but luckily my general manager and operations manager have neither said anything and they are the only ones who can force something like a haircut upon me. - if they tried to I would threaten legal action. (unlucky for me i'm ona variable hours contract so they could always just not rota me on for weeks which would still force me out of the job)
My point is that unless you are very lucky, when a manager has made a decision like that the chances of keeping your hair and job are very small - even when you hide behind the law.
Good luck anyway.
if you are pushed out of the job I think you know who's tyres you need to slash.
Sambo
oh man sorry to hear that I bet most of here have been through that crap...what is your job btw?
that has happenned to me to...I was working at a supermarket..and was told to get my hair cut ( my hair back then must have been like half as long as it is now,and I wasn't even growing it out,it must have been just 2.5-3 inches long *rolls eyes*)
wtf man what is wrong with people...it's not ok to discriminate against gays...it's not ok to discriminate against women..but it's ok to discriminate against long-haired men.ha!that makes perfect sense don't you think? *rollseyes*
I guess I'm lucky that I want to get in the academic field,from what I know..they don't care about hair in that field.
And I think you're doing the right thing quiting your job..I salute you!
Well, is she going to show you some proof that you HAVE to cut your hair? Don't resign just yet. I am sorry what happened, man. Being limited for having long hair (or just being yourself) is a shame.
Yeah. I'm going to turn up on Thursday. I will tie a neat, slicked ponytail and lie that i got a "small trim". If they say "why didn't you cut your hair short?" i will tell them that i demand to see a copy of the policy/hair regulations on paper before i cut something off that took me a year and a half to grow.
I'm not knowledgeable about the laws in Australia, but in the US any company over a certain size has to provide each employee with a copy of the "employee manual" which states all of these policies in print. This is to try to eliminate this type of thing.
If you have not been provided with a copy of the "employee manual" I would go to work and request a copy of this for you to keep. At this time you would have a copy of the stated policies, and would have grounds to either fight back or to realize that she is on firm ground, and that it is time to move on. You have to be knowledgeable about the policies to formulate an effective response.
I would go in on Thursday with a written request for a copy of the company policies for employees. If nothing else, this should give you a little time while they try to figure out what to do on their end.
Big George
Hi Jean,
sorry about this shocking experience - but your position seems to be really good, judging also by what Mark Ellott said. I agree, your best bet is to show up with long hair, but clean shaven, and without your earring. If she's still around to give you hell, you demand that she shows you the written company policy, and you tell her that you have reason to file a harrassment complaint if she does not comply. Also, you ask how long that policy has been around. She can't send you away without showing you that policy, or else she gets into trouble.
Just a few more legal thoughts, please check with someone else to see whether they apply in Australia - if there is an Australian counterpart of the "American Civil Liberties Union" or ACLU, you're in luck.
- If there is no well-defined enforcable policy, or only a wishy-washy policy, you file a claim for gender-based harrassment. "Men need to keep their hair short" is not defined and unenforcable. "In men, hair may not touch collar, eyes, or ears", or, "In men, hair length may not exceed 5 cm" is probably enforcable, UNLESS Australian law deems this to be unjust gender discrimination. Depending upon the exact wording, you say, "But my hair is not touching my collar, eyes, or ears" (because it's all in a pony tail or bun, of course).
- If an enforcable policy was implemented a long time ago, you may say that they never told you about it and never inforced it - which means that they may even have lost the right to enforce it in your case, because you always had reason to assume there is no such policy.
- If it's a new policy, that would amount to a change in your work contract, and it may only apply to you if you sign the change.
- And, by all means, consider filing a written harrassment complaint, and/or complain with her superiors if she tries again!
Well, if they have the right to fire you without reason, and if they do that, then you have no reason whatsoever to be considerate. You might even undermine her authority by telling employees of other branches of that company "Well, people have been noticing signs of emotional problems in her case, and she does not seem to be able to evaluate the performance of her staff."
The writer Berthold Brecht wrote: "He who fights, CAN loose. He who does NOT fight, HAS lost already."
Do anything reasonable that will put her into a difficult situation, cause her extra paperwork, etc. You do have the right to complain in writing or in person DIRECTLY to HER superior - no need to follow the command line in such a case. Make sure you also complain about the fact that she did NOT do a proper evaluation of the performance of the staff - she seriously failed her managerial duties in that respect!
Good to see that, ultimately, that b*** has no control over you...
Grow it forever and feel great! You're cool!
Hans-Uwe
Thanks alot Hans Uwe. Great reply.
I rang my store manager today(he's a nice short haired guy but is under her control and has no say on this matter). I told him that i want to see it in written evidence before i will cut my hair. He is going to photocopy and fax it to me today. If it says clearly the length of men's hair than i am in trouble. If it just says something like "short and neat", well short is a subjective term. My hair can be considered "short" comparatively, to someone as Absalom or Justin, for example. So what length warrants such a vague, undefined word? I can then appeal on grounds of discrimination and file a compliant through the company. If i threaten legal action i bet they will drop it straight away because of bad publicity/repution/company image etc. I will get her in the end.
Hi Jean,
since David Milney called our attention to the NSW antidiscrimination act of 1977, we now know that, at least in NSW, this b**** is trying to do something illegal. Thus, if the company cannot demonstrate any compelling (!) safety concerns, any restrictive anti-male "hair policy" is illegal and therefore void. When you meet this b**** tomorrow, you just pass her a copy of the relevant passage of the antidiscrimination act and politely inform her that any interpretation of the policy that would force you to cut your hair is clearly illegal.
You also could say that the company would look bad if they tried to do something that would not be held up in the courts. That way, you'd let her know that you mean business, without uttering an explicit threat.
If she goes on, you could calmly state that you have clearly shown that her injunction to cut your hair is illegal and therefore NOT legally binding, and you would consider to comply only if the legal evidence you just presented is unequivocally refuted. If she (surprisingly) does hand you some "evidence", you say, "thank you, I'll study it at my earliest possible convenience (whenever that is), and I'll let you know my decision", and you get out of the room as soon as possible. - No need to accept unreasonable time frames!
You notice that I'm including several terms that some uneducated people simply don't have in their active vocabulary - just shoot those words at her, and have the time of your life watching her throwing a temper tantrum :-) :-) :-) I'm sure women like Hillary Clinton (US), or Edith Cresson (France) have MUCH nicer personalities than her...
If she threatens you with dismissal, you politely say something like "Thank you for letting me know your intentions", get out of the room, and make a phone call to her superior to tell him/her that you feel harrassed by her request and by her threats (and her impolite manners if applicable), and that she is interpreting the company "hair policy" in a way that clearly violates state law - and you absolutely can't believe that this great company would knowingly and intentionally break the law.
Stick to your guns, man! (and to your hair - ha!)
Hans-Uwe
P.S.: There is no need to worry about job references at that stage. If they start hating you, you don't even have to mention that job in your CV - you're still a college student.
Resign or quit is not in my vocabulary. I would let this person follow through with her threat to dismiss you or fire you and then tell her you asked for a copy of the companies dress code. Tell her their are plenty of lawyers that would take this case on pure discrimination basis.Tell her the bad press alone would do more harm than she imagines. Sounds to me like its time someone stood up to this person and their opinionated self serving standards.
Have you been warned by the "store Manager to cut your hair???
Is their something in your file stating such ???
I feel the exact same way. I am yet to have a position like this at work but I have often thought about what I would do if I was ever asked the same question. It is discrimination no doubt.
First of all, I don't want you using terms such as 'shattered' ok? I can understand that when you first posted this, you were very shaken and taken aback from the experience you had just had, nevertheless from here on out, I don't want you feeling 'shattered' over this, alright?
Besides, she is not worth it. What she is, however, is ignorant of your work ethic and contribution to the company, ignorant generally as regards male appearance (long hair CAN be neat dammit! Sometimes much more so than spiky short styles, layered scruffy, cut styles etc etc) and to be blunt, a cow.
I wish you all the best for Thursday. Go in there with your head held high and your position firm. That way if you are told to leave, you are going out on your own terms as well as tarnishing her ego (and its need for power) at the same time.
If however, you feel on Thursday, that you want to quit, then you will feel empowered to do so...that is, if you walk in there with an erect back, confidence and the strength within yourself to know that you have decided to grow your hair long, you are in the process of doing so now and in the future and you will be damned if your body, your temple will become the playground of a beauracratic wrench/wench.
I wish you happy growing in the future. It looks great now, can you imagine how great it will be in the future!
P.S. Seeing as you're a Uni student, why don't you apply for youth allowance? If you're a full-time student than you are entitled to it (as long as you dont have more than a certain ammount of income from work).
The assets thing you can fudge.
And keep doing what you're doing. You've finally nailed a hair routine that suits you and it shows!
Thanks for the motivating words, Dean. I was shattered at first but i am dealing with it rationally now. I am a sensitive person, hard working,honest and am loyal to my managers/company. I often avoid confrontational situations and when i get nervous i have trouble getting the words out of my mouth. I am really not very sociable in reality but that doesn't mean i can't defend myself and make a stance. Yes, cow is the word to decribe her.
I will be strong and hold my head up high. BTW< the compnay is super cheap auto, i bet you won't be buying anything from there anymore. I have never ever seen a longhair in the company. Pretty sad.
Well i looked into youth allowance but i cannot get it. I live at home with my parents, my parents have assets and are on higher incomes. You have to pass the criteria to be entitled for it.
There's a wonderful little piece of legislation in NSW:
the NSW Anti-Discrimination Act 1977
This little baby specifies a section in the 'Sexual Discrimination' section that states:
Sex discrimination is:
(prefacing seections removed for clarity)
* where a rule or policy that applies to everyone in fact disadvantages your sex more than the opposite sex, and it’s not reasonable.
This section is designed to prevent employers from forcing women to wear makeup, but also to prevent certain characteristics of appearance (such as hairstyle).
The legal standpoint in the professional world is that if you require your male employees to have 'short back and sides, not touching the collar' (as the military does, but that's a whole other issue), you must legally require that your female employees must do the same.
The standard corporate description is as follows: (this is quoted from my employment contract, which contains a standard passage)
'Men should maintain a well groomed appearance, either clean shaven or a neatly trimmed beard. Women should also maintain a modest appearance. Hair touching the shoulder or longer must be tied back'
The stipulation for long hair by default in the corporate NSW (thanks to the NSW Anti-Discrimination Act 1977) is that if hair touches your shoulder, it needs to be tied back. An employer cannot legally ask you to cut it shorter unless it can be a workplace hazard (ie. if your hair has a high likelyhood of getting caught in something)
milney
Hi David,
that's the best possible answer - so, what Jean's employer is doing is illegal! NSW is a great state!
Happy growing, and more good luck with your film productions,
Hans-Uwe
P.S. Maybe you should get in touch with Jean to shoot some great footage about neurotic superiors and attempted discrimination, as he shows up at his company with his hair longer than ever... :-)
Great info Milney. I am not very informed with all the laws but this is a great defense for any longhaired guy. The fact that they can't force me to cut my hair, unless it is a safety hazard, is a good defense. That is what i though all along, that a ponytail would be fine. I am worried that they might say "well this is the image of our employees that WE want, and so if you don't like it get out of the company". I seriously think it is an anti-longhaired company.
If they try and pull that string, point out that the image of their company violates the NSW Anti-Discrimination Act 1977.
I can find you the exact section and heading numbers if you need me to :)
I am so lucky that all of my life that I never once had anything like this happen to me.
I am also very proud of your decision. I would have done the same exactly. I refuse to let anyone "own" me.
Sorry you had to go through this Jean.
Justin
Hey Jean, Cheer up man. You should be happy that you did not cave in. Not every1 accepts long hair. These kind of ignorant asses shuldnt be given any kind of respect. Well, you are young and still have a long way to go. Take it easy and find a new job. I dont know about the job market there in Oz. But i am quite sure that, a man of ur talents shuldnt have any problem with it.
Good Luck and CHeers!
Kumar
OK, here we go again.
First, I’m not that much older than you, so Mr. is not necessary.
Now, this all sounds too eerily familiar, and if I did not know it was you typing it, it would be like some sick joke played by someone who had way too much time on their hands just to rub salt in to the wounds.
Now, I don’t know where you work or what type of store it is, but it sounds like while your immediate store manager is cool, this regional type person has some problems. I bet you feel a great deal of ire right now toward this lady, and at the same time feel as if the rug was jerked out from under you. It sounds like you handled yourself well. It was very hard to do I imagine.
No beard, no earrings, and a short haircut. You may want to inquire whether or not she would also like your ‘nuces’ cut off as well to insure that you are forever completely docile and tamed, a perfect little corporate robot. This lady is acting out things, and it is being inflicted upon you, not because you are in the wrong, not because long hair is ‘evil’, and not because you are not doing your job. Although it is hard, this lady should be pitied for what she full-well believes is justified, that being her actions and her attitude toward you. She has no concept of how you may feel about yourself, and what your hair means to you. It sounds as if no amount of discussion on your part would be of any use.
You say your situation is that you are in university and do not have to have the job. I hope you do make the right decision. If you do not depend on your work for you sustenance, then please just walk! You may say that I should have done the same, but then me not working means no way to go, no food, no anything. When you’re living hand to mouth, it is a little different.
Now how you go about getting out of this job or quitting is VERY important!
The slow kindjal does as much damage as the wildly wielded claymore.
I would give the two week notice on Thursday. Also I would go in on Thursday with the hair as neatly tied back as possible and have the best possible attitude toward it all. Write a very well worded and eloquent letter of resignation, and leave with a good ‘taste’ in the mouth of the managers. In the future, it might very well be that a potential employer will inquire into your past employment history and this will be a part of it. If you leave the job gracefully and with candor, the bridge will not have been burned, and any future employer inquiry into that chapter of you life will be clean and without blemish. If it is unsuitable for you to work out your two weeks, then you have done your part, and can leave without reproach.
If you are in university, I imagine similarly to here, that there are lots of on-campus jobs that would pay comparably to what you are doing now, and would be much more lenient in terms of dress. Like the library, or in a lab, or something else like that. They usually post those jobs on the university web site and so on.
And so, this is also a lesson for the future. As you are in the field of financial studies in university, any potential employers in this sector may or may not be sympathetic and willing to hire you if by the time you have finished university if you have mid-back hair (which I hope you will!). I will tell you that here, jobs of that sort such as banks, investment firms, stock brokers, accounting firms, and so on are a highly conservative bunch of folks. While it is in no way right, or fair, or just, this industry that deals with money, is full up with folks that have the same attitude as the lady who inflicted the damage on you this week. On lots of things, Australia is similar to America, and I think this to be one of them. You need to look deeply within yourself and talk to your parents and be sure that this is the course of study that you wish to continue on. I know that if I had not gone for the cut, and I had to look for another job in banking, I would be super-hard pressed to find a job, although I would be qualified, experienced, and perfect for nearly any type of banking job. Is this just? Heck no! Is it the way and belief of all those who would make the hiring decisions in the financial sector? Surely not. But is it the way of many? Yes, of course. There are as many professions for you to enter into as you can imagine, especially in the big city in which you live. I really think you need to be careful and weigh and consider all the ramifications of any potential career paths that you are considering. I would like to say that you will be OK with looking for a job at the completion of your studies, but at some point it may come to pass that you will again be confronted with the choice to cut your hair or not. Now for me, I am going to insure that I am never faced with that again. But, you to must choose wisely and make well-thought out choices to insure that you never are faced with that choice again.
I am so happy that you are not cutting your hair. You are strong and wise for one so young. You will find something else. You will grow your hair long and beautiful.
Forge up your resolve in the fire-bright ardor of your mind, that you will do what you know is right in your heart of hearts, and be true to yourself.
Yeah the store manager is cool. It's her, the area manager, who is the superior and in charge of all the surrounding stores, he takes orders from her.
"corporate robot" i like that term. I would hate to become one of those.
It's not so much that i need the money. I do enjoy working there and its a great job. Except when the dictator is around.
Great advice. I will do that.
That's what scares me. The long term prospects of my career path with long hair. It's so unfair. Unless you're a full time rock musician or an IT dude it is so hard to have long hair in a career. I am doing Electronic business at university. I do enjoy it. Who knows? Maybe i can start my own business one day. I can be the boss and set out my own rules. It's still a few years away so i am not going to think too hard yet. There are other options. After i get my degree i might even travel overseas for a few years, my hair might be waist length before i start working for all i know. If i think too much i just will be unhappy and cut my hair because it will become too overwhelming and i will worry too much about "what if" scenarios. Lifes too short to worry, just do what makes you most happy inside and for me part of that is having very long hair. I don't think there are any other careers that would make me happy. I could become an average joe tradesman and have long hair but i can do better than that. Sometimes i feel like is growing hair really worth all the pain and hassle and discrimination. Even just maintaining and looking after it is enough trouble for me, let alone all the crap you cop from society and ignoramouses. I will continue my course and i will keep my hair and grow it waaaay longer.
If you are studying Business, then the answer is obvious. you need to start your own company when you graduate. Maybe you could set up in competition to your current employers and drive them out of business?
I'm really sorry to hear that, man. At first I was actually a bit worried that you'd cut your hair if even just a bit, as un-80's_metal-like as that would be, but I'm glad you stood strong and didn't.
Maybe your next job will end up being far more enjoyable than this one, and your firing is a blessing in disguise. The universe works in indirect ways.
Best of luck finding a new job.
if i was you, i'd go the company's head office and complain. if they don't listen, you could always notify the local media and through that, they could shame your fascist boss.
australia seems jsut as bad for workers' rights as the UK. i'm applying for jobs at the moment, and know that the vacancies i've gone for might involve getting a haircut.
good luck man
luke
Hi Luke,
I do hope that you find some good job where you DON't have to "sell out", or try to disguise as a person you are not. It really would be a "day of mourning" if someone like you were forced to cut your great hair.
I just noticed David Milney's post about statutes against gender discrimination in NSW / AUS. Apparently they did get that right "down under"?
If I were you, I'd try to find out whether your skills are needed there - hair discrimination seems to be outright illegal in NSW. The other place I know where discrimination against men with long hair is illegal is Washington DC.
In Germany, I have seen several long-haired journalists doing reports eg about the doctors' strike currently taking place in our hospitals. You don't happen to speak a bit of German, by any chance? ;-)
Best wishes to 80s, and to you, hair-wise and otherwise!
Hans-Uwe
The only legal footing that a company can have against long hair is if it is a safety hazard. In this scenario however, they cannot force male employees to have short hair unless the female employees are held to the same letter of the law.
I work as an Audio-Visual Technician at the Sydney Convention & Exhibition Centre (http;//www.scec.com.au) when I'm not at uni. I've never had a problem with my hair length. I've had a conversation with the CEO of the centre and it wasn't mentioned. HR has confirmed that they cannot discriminate against hair length, but they can request it eb styled to look professional.
The best thing is, I work in a government owned building, for a company that reports to a comittee that is aprt of the government. So they KNOW what they can and cannot ask their employees to do.
You are far from shattered pal, you are in fact the opposite, perfectly together! You seem very strong in your ideals and cannot go wrong with such a positive attitude! Dont let them bring you down, they are the tyrants and they are the ones who are walloping in their own ignorance. Your hair is part of who you are and the fact that you are strongly defending it shows that you are brave and strong. Dont let anyone bring you down.
keep on keeping on brother!!!
I'm really sorry to hear of your plight 80s_Metal; the entire situation sounds like it stinks. However, you have already displayed admirable courage in standing up for who you are, and who you shall remain. Acquiescing to demands of cutting hair would only be an invitation for more invasive demands in the future -- it's all about *control*, not "appearance".
Do not blame society for this ill. It was merely a bystander. Further, from appearances, it looks like your local government has some forward-looking policies in place where it comes to discrimination issues. You're fortunate to live in such a place.
Your decision, ultimately, will prove to be a wise one (at least the way that odds work). But, do not discount the possibility of making this bigot's life miserable for a while; there can be great satisfaction in that. Too, if she's the ultimate source of the problem (i.e. it doesn't permeate the business), you might prevail; but that's somewhat unlikely unless there's been a pattern of harassment on the part of this individual.
You have my thoughts and best wishes. Sally forth and do well in the world -- with your mane intact!
Jean,
I am outraged at this! I swear people can be such pigs sometimes. At least you are strong and not going to give in. She will get hers as people like that do. Just think, in a few years when you finish college (with long hair) you will be way above her.
If I were you I would let her superiors know what just went on. Tell them that your hair does not prevent you from doing a good job. In fact, cutting your hair would make you perform less, be miserable, and loose all moral towards the organization. This is a violation to your civil rights as an individual and as a human being. I bet the employee handbook has a statement about non-discrimination and equal opportunity employment. I would bring that up and challenge them.
Hope all is well. Glad you are not giving in.
ESDI
Get a lawyer to write a letter. They won't charge you much and it may well scare her off.
Is a woman with long hair NOT considered 'neat'? It's sterotypical to believe that guys with long hair have dirty hair.
In the lawyer's letter, have him demand the exact 'rule' for that says men must have short hair...and what is short? Shoulder length, over the ears...a buzz cut?
When you go over her head, ask that person if your job performance is good. Then tell them you are willing to leave over this issue.
If they like your work, they may just ignore your hair altogether.
He cannot be forced to leave as this would count as his first warning (even if it was a warnable offense, which it leggally cannot be). He would need to receive a WRITTEN warning before he could be terminated. And if, in that warning, his hair was mentioned due to it's length, then the company has confirmed in writing that they have breached the NSW Anti-Discrimination Act 1977.
See my post for a better explanation here:
http://www.the-light.com/longhair/messages/145098.html
...he is dealing with a woman who just happens to love the power she has over this guy. Somebody needs to put her in her place.
Hey, let's all go over there now and scare the daylights out of her.
I'm putting a spell on her.
DO NOT RESIGN.
LET THEM TAKE THE ACTION AGAINSTE YOU, AND YOU WILL BE IN A STRONGER POSITION AS ONE WHO HAS BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.
THE QUESTIONS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY WORK?
DO NOT GIVE IN.
THERE IS WORK FOR YOU ELSEWHERE, BUT GIVE THEM EHOUGH ROPE...
Don't be shattered! You are young and talented enough to find
another job. Go in when your next shift starts and say I've
decided not to cut my hair, see ya. That gives them 0 notice.
You will come out of this stronger I'm sure.
Good luck and don't cut your hair for nobody no way no how.
wow is that USA today it sound like some middle age thing
i assume usa has moved more then korea in accepting things
i am suprised the lady can do such thing
Here in norway a leader can not say such thing i am not sure what you work with ,i can undersantd if you was a cook or chef (the person wo make dinners)you should not wear long lose hair when make diners or a man working in metal industry with rolling press and your hair could get into the press
but other then that it suprise she could
Here you could make a sort of complaint about it if they said cut your hair
i f you go in a job interjy they can not say such thing even maybe they think it but not say it offical
i think you should be strong and wait for the rules or police of the company
i see you of these active mebers here so you has intrest in havee it long
good luck
aren
80’s metal,
I agree that demanding a hair cut is not a good thing, but I think you should think things out first before deciding to quit your job. There could be consequences from these actions down the road. Like, what if you need to use this company for a future reference to get another job?
What kind of reference would she give you?
Don’t let them fire you over this
This is what I would do if I was in your shoes. I wouldn’t cut it that’s for sure.
I would wait until she has shown me the company policy on this matter.
If in fact there is a stipulation concerning the length of hair, I would give my 2 week notice.
If there is no stipulation and she is still demanding it be cut then I would find a good lawyer to handle it.
Good luck
Bruce
Dont give in dude - the force is with you!
Good luck in nailing her azz!
My boss told me to get a hair cut once and I said that if that if it was my job or my hair hair I would have to choose my hair. He told me that I was a good employee and that he didn't want to lose me over something trivial. So he simply ordered me a company hat and had me wear that and a ponytail. I would hope your boss would think of a logical comprimise since you're obviously a good employee. It doesnt sound like she would though. :( Good luck finding a new job.
she sounds like a bully, have you got a union? personnel department? this is harrassment
p.s. how long/short is hers?
