new thread
After reading RedTailWolf's post about his discrimination I think it is time we petition the ACLU or possibley a group like that, maybe even make our own. This must stop! It is harrasment and the athorities do nothing to help us! It is wrong and we deserve to be treated with respect just like everyone else. People with longhair, tattoos, or piercings are harrased all the time. They aren't given equal job oppritunity, they are ridiculed, and most of all we cant do anything about it. Something needs to be done. I'm tired of watching my fellow AMERICANS be talked down to just because of their lifestyle choices. As long as you're not hurting anyone or yourself you should have every right in the world to do as you please without being harrassed. So if anyone is interested I think we should try and do something about this as a group. There is strength in numbers and we have almost 300 here. The time has come to stop this ignorance. Who is with me?
I'm with you dude, just not sure how to proceed...
I am also with you. The hard part is the best way to go about this, as it is worldwide issue.
I'm with you, and I'm in Washington DC, FWIW. I'm totally not the organization type though, and I think it would be extremely difficult for such small numbers to make an impact. Using an existing organization like that, as you suggested, is the smart thing to do. They have money, the ability to take congresspeople to lunch, and the ability to help author bills that have provisions for obscure special interests burried on page 1432. :)
I'm with you on this. I never got much descrimiation (except waiting in line for a rock concert of all places) But I'm still there, and feel everybody should be able to live the lifestyle they choose!
Maaan, out'f all the places, you got dissed at waiting in line fo' a rock concert where evrywon (i'd imagine) hav long hair?!
Dear Friends,
Be sure that the ACLU is supportive. I am president of the W. NC chapter of the NC affiliate of the ACLU.
Here is the problem. It may look like the ACLU is a large organization but it is not, and it has limited resources. It will indeed take and support a case of discrimination if it appears there is possibility of establishing a legal precedent which can have impact across various judiciaries. But it cannot take on every case.
The sole purpose of the ACLU is to protect the bill of rights, the first 10 amendments to the contstitution, which protect the individual against unreasonable governmental control.
The best course of action is to join the ACLU. Dues are cheap. National dues will be shared with your state affiliate (or three regionals in California). And, you will get a periodic newsletter telling you about cases in your state, as well as how to contact your state or regional executive to ask for assistance.
The ACLU has no leverage against private organizations or companies, unless there is state or federal legislation which guarantees protection of individual rights such as discrimination based on "race" or religion.
This is one of the reasons why some political parties in the United States wish to privitize almost all governmental functions, becuase the bill of rights only protects us against governmental discrimination, not Crackerbarrel.
Be sure that the ACLU is fully supportive of expressions of individuality, including hair length and style, piercings, tatoos,and clothing, as long as there is no interference with job or school performance.
Contrary to popular stereotype, the ACLU is a conservative organization which strives to protect the freedom of American Citizens against overly controlling government.
ACLU executives do not ordinarily take congressmen to lunch. ACLU is not primarily a lobby, but does endeavor to educate legislators based on reason and not bribery, and does encourage legislators to widen the defense of individual liberty, but does not have megabucks. and under no circustances would take congressmen to Scotland for a golf fling.
We were powerless to act here in NC after a two local women were married in Massachusetts and their wedding was reported in the local paper, resulting in their being fired as photographers for a local resort. There is no protection of gays in either North Carolina or Federal law. In NC there is still a socalled "sodomy" law on the books because law enforcement will not enforce the law resulting in a case, which would result in our local ACLU responding in a NY second.
Hair length and style seems to be a non issue, but were it to emerge, I assure you that in the absence of law requiring men to wear short hair that we would be on to this instantly, because the constitution does require liberty.
James
Everyone gets "harrassed", everyone speaks their mind, and everyone has an opinion. It's the way of the world. Deal with it.
Most individuals seem to fly the flag of "toughing it out" when it comes to longhair, and thats fine, but if you cant take a joke, or some other form of harrasment, perhaps it's time to put that flag away. Or burned it.
Do you honestly think banding together a few hundred longhaired individuals to "fight the good fight", is actually going to accomplish something? Or gain anything of merit?
No. It's a waste of time.
So ocasionally "longhairs" get obscenties yelled at them. Or other harrassment. Who cares. Until people are shot at, beaten, burned alive, or have other hate crimes commited against them (at an alarming rate) I'd say the "activist" club is dreadfully lame idea.
My suggestion is to visit Los Angeles or New York, or maybe somewhere in the South. Longhaired men aren't even a concern to people in the harrassment department. Like I said. We aren't special because our hair is long. No one cares.
Zac
Zac, I agree with you that people are going to have opinions, both positive and negative, about anything you can imagine, and we all, to some degree, have to "deal with it." However, I have to take exception to your flippant dismissal of harassment. Do we have to wait for people to be shot at or burned alive before something is done? When someone is attacked, verbally or otherwise, solely because of a harmless, personal choice he or she has made, such as wearing hair long, choosing a particular religion, or studying Lithuanian, or because of something the victim has no control over, such as race, sex, disability or sexual orientation, then we have a moral obligation to say or do something to let the perpetrator know that his/her acts are unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Tacitly allowing this type of abusive and coercive behavior amounts to being an accomplice to it. Worse, if the perpetrator is allowed to behave in this way with impunity, a fertile soil is established from which can arise even more heinous behavior, including violent crime.
To band together to fight for one's rights is not, as you say, "a waste of time." If everyone felt that way, we'd all be living in utter abjection under the yoke of some ruthless dictator. (It's bad enough we have Bush.)
dino
n/t
Zac, I agree with you that people are going to have opinions, both positive and negative, about anything you can imagine, and we all, to some degree, have to "deal with it." However, I have to take exception to your flippant dismissal of harassment.
You know... Large words don't necessarily give you a more powerful point. As for my fippancy, perhaps it's something more people should exercise. Oh, and as for my list of hate crimes, that was exageration (a semi-large word) perhaps you should view it's defintiton before you go spouting off like Mussolini from the balcony.
Dowe have to wait for people to be shot at or burned alive before something is done? When someone is attacked, verbally or otherwise, solely because of a harmless, personal choice he or she has made, such as wearing hair long, choosing a particular religion, or studying Lithuanian, or because of something the victim has no control over, such as race, sex, disability or sexual orientation, then we have a moral obligation to say or do something to let the perpetrator know that his/her acts are unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
No, but do you honestly need a "group" to accomplish this? Aren't you a "man"? A grown man? I'm 21 years old. 5'6 and don't need a group to tell someone to F*** off. Come on. Listen to yourself here. Jesus.
Someone makes a comment about my hair, I laugh & shrug it off. Due to my love of talking crap, and making fun of others, I love it when people attempt to return the favor! It's great. And in fact I look forward to it. Why? Because it means they've extended an invitation to me. An invitation to harass them back, and possibly get into a fight.
Tacitly allowing this type of abusive and coercive behavior amounts to being an accomplice to it. Worse, if the perpetrator is allowed to behave in this way with impunity, a fertile soil is established from which can arise even more heinous behavior, including violent crime.
Assumptions. Assumptions. I don't let this "abuse" (Oh that's sad calling it that) get to me. Maybe some people do. But as I stated above, It's fun. Try it sometime. Let people get the upper hand (briefly) and then destroy them. Verbally, Mentally, or even Physically. If in fact came down to that. Which is oh so rare.
band together to fight for one's rights is not, as you say, "a waste of time." If everyone felt that way, we'd all be living in utter abjection under the yoke of some ruthless dictator. (It's bad enough we have Bush.)
Ohh someone that doesn't like Bush!
You're a real individualist over there!
One. Don't bring up "Bush" that poor political hore has been beaten past the point of death.
He's not even the one running this country, so there again complaining about our current president is a waste of time.
Two. You're wrong. If "people" handled life how I handled it, this toilet Earth would be a lot better of a place. I'm a realist, I mind my own business, and I don't let God or opinions hinder my lifegoals before I die & go to hell. and I certainly don't waste my time standing up for a petty causes (ig whiny longhaired "men" who get harrasesd)
I like the hair tips here, but posts like this one (from MEN) are seriously laughable. It's cool though. I always need comedic material for my screenplays.
Zac
I see where you're coming from. I, on the other hand, don't go around looking for fights. Just because I disagree with a part of what you've said does not make my post a personal attack -- at least I didn't perceive it as such, and I believe the majority of readers of this board would not have either. The subject matter was something that I believe in strongly enough that I thought it merited a response. I'm sorry that you are more interested in taking offense than carrying on a mature dialogue.
Please try to react more reasonably in the future. I was your age at one point too, and I may have reacted then in exactly the same way. One nice thing about growing older is that you learn to mellow out. :-)
peace,
dino
Your response may be going a little too far the other way.
In Washington DC (and quite possibly nowhere else?) 'hair style' is a protected characteristic that you can sue for discrimination over. Working in the district, and just knowing that law is on the books, puts a spring in my step. It gives me the legal right to be me, which is beyond price. I truly think everyone should enjoy that right.
We should do what we can to get it added in other places, but maybe through the ACLU or other general civil rights groups. There are a lot fewer of us than there are, say, black people or people of latino origin, and other people aren't sympathetic, mostly because they see us as a self selecting group.
All the same, I deeply beleive that we are entitled to 'self expression', as per the European human rights act, and we should get involved with some group(s) that champions self expression per se. Everyone should be able to look like themself, and nobody deserves to be able to say they have to look like a robot instead just so they can put bread on the table.
300 people isn't enuff y'no what'm sayin. yo'd need waaay more people outside the board.
and also am not in the uniited states o'america yet. so i couldnt possibly do nothin. alright keep it real.
How about writing to your congress men? As they say, the pen is mightier then the sword. :-)
Count me in. I feel the exact same way you do.
I'm personally don't think this is a good idea, especially since discrimination against longhairs is few and far between (from what I've seen). I'd much rather be labeled as a long hair then a guy who's in an "activist group for equal rights"... Everyone wants to feel equal, and the truth is that it probably won't ever happen. I say just act like a decent human being, and you will be treated as one... or so that has worked for me.
As for people with piercings, tattoos, and longhair... when was the last time you saw one of those dudes harassed?? I had to laugh, beause usually they are the ones who never get harassed due to their tough appearance (and usually tough nature). I'd say they probabaly harass more then some short haired yup who thinks he's cool.
-Ardroth
I was writing/insanely ranting a while back and put these thoughts down. I share them with you now.
Yes, to be able actually do things rather than just discuss the nature of things! Nothing against anyone, but we all do lots of advice giving and talk about how things should or could be this or that, but to do something about it would be something altogether amazing.
It would be like some sort of grass roots organization. It seems there is an organization for every other possibly conceivable cause under the sun - ad nauseam. Why not one for male hair discrimination/rights? Really, there are a few hundred men/boys who frequent the hyper-board. How many more are out there who don’t realize there are others like them? How many others out there in the world need that little bit of reassurance that they could be themselves? How many poor fellows got a haircut yesterday that they didn’t want? And how many were saddened by it, those sad and bitter tears hitting the dusty earth, but no one around them understanding their plight? How many who don’t know about the internet could be helped? The possibilities are many.
For thousands of years it was thought to be normal to own slaves, to have women as second class citizens, to burn witches, to subjugate and colonize weaker nations, to berate one because of the color of their skin, to have one hide his/her sexuality for fear of retribution, or to kill whales . There are many more to numerous to delve into now. While all these things to some extent still occur in parts of the world, we can all agree that some modicum of progress can be seen.
Now how is the forcing of a man to cut his hair, his birthright to himself, his mane, his pride, his decoration (after a fashion), his ‘self’ in a way, anything that could ever be perceived as right, just or fair or even normal? We have all talked about this subject for as long as I have read the hyper-board. Yes, the degree of a haircut for a male is less than being enslaved for life, or being black, or most any of the examples. But, to that individual, is it a thing of trauma? Does it rip a whole in the man’s mind? Does it hurt him? Does it make him feel that he is perceived as less because he is more with his hair, but to be perceived as more, he becomes less without his hair? Damage is done each day to someone somewhere. Is this the greatest of a man’s woes? Surely not, but a small step in the right direction. In the US, by Hercules, a man doesn’t even have the right to all his body when he’s born!
But how would a group go about achieving such goals as male hair rights? Would not laughter ensue from senators and legislators and their lackeys? I don’t know surely. I do know that at one time it was thought laughable that women should be able to vote, or to own land, or to have any right over their children. I know too that all the beauteous words that the ancient Greek and Roman authors wrote were written by slave owners. We have Plato talking about the cave and debating meaning and shades of meaning about life. We see Marcus Aurelius writing some of the sweetest and most profound things ever written. Catullus’ love poems are a mastery of symbolism. All slave owners. Society, now, then, and in the future never had, has, or will have a conscience. As an inertial force, it runs over and tramples individuals in many ways. Every now and then it is stopped. We need to stop the force of at least this one thing. And it might be said this is an impossible task. I will say too that this hyperboard has helped many guys surely. But has there ever been a case where a person or organization was confronted by a group or person on behalf of another to save that man’s hair from the scissors? Not everyone is able to formulate and to persuade. Obviously, I can’t either. But, a small group working for a common cause can open up doors, can close windows of illogic, and can grow. While I surely would never want anyone to grow hair who did not want it, I can say that the growth under the scalp that happens at least equals the growth on the scalp. And if there were more who grew under the scalp as well as on it, the world surely would be a better place.
You take a small stone in your hand, and it is just a small stone. You throw it into the pond, and its ripples go all the way to the edge of the pond.
I have no idea how to start such an organization. I have no idea how far it would get. I have no idea that it would succeed. But, I do know that if someone were helped, someone were made better, if someone’s life was better lived, and someone out there was not done damage to, that success would have been achieved.
The way to get noticed is not to form a large organization. It is to form a noisy organization. If the discriminator is in a large metro area and is vulnerable to interference with foot traffic off the street, that's a great place to get noticed. Ten guys (and we could muster that many in areas like SF, LA, or NYC) at the door with signs and bullhorns, urging customers to stay away, will definitely get noticed.
Others won't then want that pack of longhairs at THEIR door and will think twice about discrimination.
Bill
My 2cents (the short version): When you think about it a haircut is a form of head mutilation (especially a buzz cut). growing hair is a natural function of the body. therefore it's extremely ironic that cutting hair is seen as normal (in most developed countries today) and letting it grow is not. but, buzzing off your eyebrows would be seen as wierd, so there's really no logic to any of this. It all has to do with what's in the majority at any given time. Based on that, people just react. they don't think. Hairstyles move slowly in and out. 300 years ago long hair was much more the mainstream--witness drawings of isaac newton and albrecht durer. by the mid 18th cent. men were shaving their heads and wearing powdered wigs. A few still wore their own hair (Patrick Henry). Powdered wigs faded out in the early 1800s I believe. By 1900 men were pretty much wearing short hair I think. So there are changes in hair but they take a long time to manifest themselves over a large population. If you are lucky you may see a trend change in your lifetime--maybe not. Who knows, in 100 years maybe most men will have long hair. Shorthairs will be seen as odd then.
I think there are two basic factors that make short hair predominant in the U.S. now. The first one is a dominant private sector military corporate industry that is run with a fair degree of regimentation. Employees are basically forced to conform in a lot of ways, among them appearance, via overt and subtle means. The fallout from this affects other non-industrial businesses such as finance, and the result is that if you go drive through the suburbs of any major city, they guys all look like they have been cloned. It's not so bad in places where employment is apart from this such as academe and new technology but in most places the pressure to conform to stay employed or get promoted is pretty intense. Unlike other countries in Europe for example, employers in the U.S. are free to dismiss people quite easily. In Eu, the private sector cannot dominate in this way because of various restrictions. Okay, enough about that.
The other factor is socio-political. I have long hair because it's fun and I enjoy it. That's about it. But a lot of people will see all sorts of political and social messages in my hair. Usually they are conservative and associate it with things they disapprove of. Therefore they don't like it. There's a vast part of the U.S. containing people like this. I personally think it's unrealistic for this group to attempt any kind of political change through legislation. And any significant change takes a long time. Look at the civil rights crusade's decades of work to improve their status for example.
I think a better way is to find employment in places that are friendly to longhairs, then work to insure they stay that way. One way of doing that is to be good employees and set an example. It sounds laughably naive but I think changing people one at a time by positive contact will work better than talking to some shorthaired congressman for a few minutes (that is, if you can see him--lots of luck) or writing a letter that probably won't even make it to him. We can also try to get more guys to try growing their hair out, but I tend to think that longhairs are born not made. well, who knows about that. Anyway, these are my thoughts for now.
I've written letters to state senators and representatives (about other things) in the past and gotten back personal responses. I was surprised to get that. I suppose the letters their lackeys deem important get a response.
I may be cynical about this. There is certainly no harm in an organized letter writing campaign, especially in the red states.
