new thread
Some of you know my story - I grew up as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and while I still believe a lot of it, I just decided that I couldn't live with the short hair restrictions among other things.
Since I became inactive, I've lost most of my JW friends, even a lot of online ones. I thought it might be interesting to share some of the thinking that I have had to deal with. In this case, it's a conversation with an online female friend - one that I was close to before she decided she was basically done with me. It hurt losing her as it did others but there is apparently no reasoning that permits them to respect me as a longhaired man...
Part of our conversation:
ME: The Great Tribulation will be the time when the enormous issue of universal sovereignty will be placed before all humans. It makes so much sense to me that when the sign of the son of man appears EVERYONE on earth will have a choice:
*support the 8th king (a totally different, empowered UN which will at that time be a true world government)
*support God's Kingdom
Maybe it will be enough for me at that time to show my support for God's Kingdom. If not, I accept my fate. I just can NOT do the intense rule structure right now especially considering the things I've found out about the organization. I told an elder that if I could be respected as a longhaired JW, I would gladly attend the meetings. I MISS the meetings and the people there.
I know that respect would never happen so for now I have to live a life that feels right to me.
HER: Yes but isn’t accepting the truth about DISowning ourselves? Living not for OURSELVES and all OUR WANTS, but making personal sacrifices. Saying that you’ll only go to the meetings if they accept and respect your long hair is like putting conditions on your faith. Like saying ‘I will only serve you Jehovah if I can have all my personal wants and needs met in this system’. Sorry but it doesn’t work like that. People give up HUGE things every day for the truth, for Jehovah. It seems almost amusing that you can’t even give up a HAIRSTYLE.
ME: I'm sorry that you view this as 'amusing'. It is hardly that to me. If God wants to kill me for having long hair then so be it. Is that any type of God I'd want to worship? Hell, no..
HER: i'm not laughing at you if thats what you think.
and i'm sure Jehovah doesn't want to KILL you at all. you are totally missing the point and refusing to see the big picture. i was trying to make the point that, as witnesses, we at times have to make personal sacrifices for the sake of the truth. don't you think there are certain clothes i want to wear or music i would like to listen too? yes. but we have to be DIFFERENT and appear different, otherwise how are we any different to the world. how can you not see that? isn't everlasting life worth a few sacrifices in this system?? surely!
ME: 'but we have to be DIFFERENT and appear different'
You probably don't see the irony in that statement. It is the positively suffocating requirements on personal appearance the Watchtower demands that I find impossible to deal with. Have you seen the men at Bethel? They all look like clones - most of them get haircuts every 2-3 weeks.
That is just NOT me. I find it to be revolting. I would RATHER die than live as a clone. If Jehovah the Creator of this universe has such a narrow view of what is acceptable for his servants, then I don't understand him.
I like to think Jehovah is better than that. Before massacring billions at Armageddon, I think he will put a choice before humans and it's my hope that hair length won't enter into the picture.
If it does, at least I can look myself in the mirror knowing I'm at least being true to myself. I won't let a flawed, sinful organization strangle my individuality and eliminate what makes us all unique. Diversity should be celebrated not condemned.
HER: 'Diversity should be celebrated not condemned'
of course! and are there any two humans that are exactly the same?? no. Jehovah made us all different with different feature and traits and personalities. he indeed does celebrate diversity. yet its not as simple as that and you know it. satan is still ruling the world Jason. and in this system we are living in we DO have to stand out as different. Jesus TOLD us we will be hated for being different. i'm sure Jehovah doesn't really give a flying CRAP what length your hair is. however the fact of the matter is that long hair on a man is NOT the norm, even by the worlds standards. i barely know any worldly men with long hair. so do we want to be drawing attention to ourselves in the wrong way? do we want people to be distracted by our appearance while taking them the message? no. and thats basically wat its all about. we don't have the luxury of just being able to do whatever we FEEL like if we decide to live in the truth. the truth is all about making SACRIFICES. and jesus told us that. he told his followers to DISOWN themSELVES and follow him. i truly feel as though with you, you are focusing on all these tiny little details and refusing to see the big picture. the truth isn't about pleasing jason, its about sanctifiying Jehovah's name. we all have to make sacrificies along the way. think of single sisters who would love nothing more than to be married, who may have offers by worldly men whom they are attracted to. yet they loyally stick to what Jehovah tells them to do. or others who give up good jobs, promotions etc so they can focus more on the truth. no we may not get everything we personally want in this system but does it REALLY MATTER at the end of the day. what SHOULD be our main concern is doing what Jehovah requires of us and proving satan a liar. that is the whole issue here.
and to be honest, when Armageddon DOES come, i really doubt you'll be too concerned about your HAIR.
end of conversation.....
Did you notice the little dig there at the end? In other words, I'm in DEEP trouble when Armageddon comes according to her.
I know there are others here dealing with discrimination and lack of respect because of their hair. It's too bad my whole social network was tied up in this for so long. I'm gradually branching out now but it's taking some time. Feeling oneself is eminently worth it IMO. Sad, really, the way people judge others.
Hi Jason,
Hearing your conversation from my perspective I definitely think you are doing what is unquestionably the best thing for you. Now I am extremely biased because I am agnostic but I live as an atheist. I was raised a Catholic and had to overcome the weight of Christian teachings but not for nearly so long as you have I imagine. I was incapable of sacrifice to a (for me) unseen recipient. Now I will be the first to admit to a strong streak of selfishness that is hard enough to overcome in situations where the immediate result of the sacrifice is earthly and obvious. When the sacrifice of yourself is connected to an unseen entity and for some future date (my own ending) well that was just too much for a the youth that I was to do.
It appears I have never grown up and I still feel the same way so when I hear that you are sticking up for yourself against the God of your faith (that you would rather die being yourself) makes me want to cheer! I am not a believer and I know I cannot talk anyone out of their faith through logic or science. That change in attitude must come from inside. It sounds like you are (and have been for awhike) certainly at a crossroads from what you have said.
I hope you don't take offense since you said you still do believe in the prophecies of your religion, but maybe being willing to take the other side is a first step in realizing that maybe there is no contest in the first place. I think that you show tremendous courage to be willing to face down God for your sense of self since he is real for you. Living the way I do without rules and guidance from above takes its own form of courage and determination as well.
You have certainly come a long way and I am glad you have shared so much of your spiritual journey with us. A little selfishness isn't the end of the world ( I realize I should not make such a joke to a JW but hey its too late now :) )
We are all pulling for you Jason!
Thanks very much for your support and sharing your outlook on things, Chris.
I will always believe in God as our Creator. Coming to understand him is another matter and certainly the Bible paints quite a contradictory picture of what he's like. It will be my personal journey to come to a peace with God and get to know him as best I can. That journey will be done as a longhair though!
I have come to realize that being a Christian is not about following a religion or rule structure. Being a Christian is about having a personal relationship with God, who died for our sin so we dont have to. We are not required to follow some intense rule structure in order to have a relationship with God, although many church leaders disagree with this because tradition and power is more important to them than having a personal relationship with God. I know it is hard to let go of tradition but the results are worth it. I do not think you would go to hell for having longhair, and most of all we should be what God created us to be, because no matter what we do we will accomplish whatever God wants us to do, whether its inside the belly of a whale or whatever. I dont know, I hope the Bible isnt wrong but then I dont see any other alternative that makes any sense.
Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that Christianity should not be unduly influenced by manmade rules and traditions that detract from what Christ really did.
....we are seeing and hearing another story of how the Longhair Journey is growth not only of hair, but also of personal integrity and spiritual awareness.
Thanks for Sharing
Walter White Tail
In my opinion faith is different from religion, which means that I do have faith and the God which I believe in and count on is LOVE, and love involves acceptance, tolerance and support. I hope the God that I believe in won't judge me by the lenght of my hair, but by what I did good. The first thing that made me like Jesus since I was a little boy was the image of his long hair and I really doubt that this simpathy that I felt for his image when I was just 3 or 4 years old, was a kind of temptation or some evil thing.
When I shaved off my long hair last december, I didn't feel any difference between the blessings I was receiving from God. The only thing was that I was missing my hair, but I was still sure that I was still ACCEPTED and SUPPORTED.
I'm sure God blesses you and your long hair too. I hope my words help you to feel better and supported!
Thanks for sharing your experience Walter. I appreciate your input and support. I can certainly agree with you that there is a big difference between faith and religion. I think all religions have been tainted by imperfect men and what they bring to them.
I know next to nothing about JW, but it sounds like it has some of the same Apolalyptic aspects to the regligion of my youth. I attended a strict fundamentalist school for three years when I was a child, and much of the apocalyptic theology resonated strongly with me. Ironicly, it was my own observations of "oppressors in my daily life" that made, and still makes, the arising of an anti-Christian, dictatorial power seem like such a realistic possibility.
While my own journey has had selfish aspects, it has simultaneously been spiritual. On more than one occasion, I have contemplated the possibility that I might some day be asked to cut hair for the sake of a job, and contemplated which I would choose: God or Mammon!
Now, I wasn't drawing much strength from church at the time I left. For me, it was an easy decision. You, however, seem to miss it and I feel for you. I wonder how your friend would react if you drew parallels between the conformity they enforce, and the conformity of fascists societies. I wonder what she would say if you said that she had placed herself in the role of the oppressor who asks "Will you conform or be denied my benefits?".
Hi Steve,
You speak a lot of truth about Christianity. JWs are by no means unique in their discrimination against longhaired men. Many Christian religions do it. This goes back to the subject that came up last week about why there is some animosity towards some Christian faiths.
jesus had long hair
a friend of my sisters who i also knew well married a JW girl and he basicly had to choose to be converted so they could marry.........
Jason, thanks for sharing these details with us. I can't know what it's like for you to have to deal with these difficult issues, because my experience has been much different; consequently I can't offer any helpful insights.
But my reason for replying is simply because, when I read your story, this is what immediately came to mind:
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Not a bad way to approach things, when all is said and done.
peace, love and light,
dino
For those who don't know these lyrics are from John Lennon
prior to being shot.
Yeah, if those words were from John Lennon after he was shot, we wouldn't be talking about Jesus now. We'd be talking about John Lennon. [wink]
Bill
Hi Dino,
If only the world could be as the one described in those lyrics! Hatred would disappear. Just think about the violence going on around the world right now. So much is inspired by religious fanaticism and the hatred it engenders.
thanks,
Jason
Do they teach in JW that you shouldn't judge others or God will judge you?
It's in the bible so you should point that out to people.
Also point out "love they neighbor"
All God cares about is love and if you have love everything else like the other ten commandments are pretty much guaranteed not to be broken.
I'm sure your friends must know this.
God doesn't care about your hair length. He looks on the inside.
If people see a jw with long hair it will help brake down stereotypes and will increase the amount of love in the world.
Also God probably wants you to be able to relate to many people, he wants all to be saved not just those that "look right".
God gave people free will and I'm sure he knows that if people decide not to listen to your message because you have long hair then thats there own free choice and he wont hold it against you.
Personally i Believe there Could be a god; but i don't believe in religion. I believe if a god does exist the only thing he cares about is love; and the only sin would be something that gets in the way of love for humanity.
Good points, Rellow.
I especially like what you said about a longhaired JW potentially breaking down stereotypes.
Hi Jason,
For me, one paragraph seems to sum it up very well: "If God wants to kill me for having long hair (...) Is that any type of god I'd want to worship? Hell, no..." You're right, worshipping that type of god may mean hell...
I do applaud you for refusing to believe in and to worship a "god" that is cruel! (notice the lower-case initial of "god") God is infinitely good! In my eyes, you are right to be an "atheist" in relation to all cruel gods, and a "Believer" in relation to the infinitely good and loving God.
I know, I'm entering tricky territory here, but "we become like the God that we adore" (a phrase from the religious writers Sheila, Dennis, and Matt Linn). If we believe in a god like Marduk, who demanded sacrificing and burning little children to death (one technical term for those ancient sacrifices is "holocaust", interestingly enough), like it was done in pre-Jewish times in the Middle East, then we ultimately become cruel ourselves. I prefer the God who stopped Abraham in his tracks on one important occasion, and who called those "holocausts" of children an abomination.
If the "holocaust" kind of thought has sneaked into our own faith (whichever that is), then, let's throw it out! (I wonder how that would resonate with some of the world's leaders who claim to be devout followers of this or that religion...) As a Christian (certainly not always a good one), I feel that I should ask "Is that what Jesus would do?" To please God, I first and foremost have to be the person my Creator has intended me to be - not the "clone" that the elders of some parish or society might turn me into.
In that sense, always be yourself and keep it growing!
(More about all this later, if you are interested.)
See you!
Hans-Uwe
Very interesting Hans-Uwe. I look forward to discussing more with you in person soon!
WOW, so much about JW that I didn't know about, Jason, --- and an extremely different way of thinking than my own upbringing as a Christian Scientist...
Whenever I have felt inspiration, it has never been "the letter" (the literal interpretation of anything); but the *spirit* of a higher concept of life & living, that has lifted me up into a greater awarenes of a Universal Power and Love.
When I think back on your amazing pictures you shared that you took high up in those mountains a few weeks back, I was blown away, --- moved with inspiration over what a powerful impact those mountains and the beautiful view gave me! If there is a God (and I do very much believe that He/She definitely exists, --- in spite of having many Atheist friends and family members whom I dearly love that wish they could talk me into thinking otherwise), then this God must have such a powerful, deep, and all-encompassing love that petty little differences of opinion (like opinions over hair length) simply melt away in His presence, --- just as snow on a mountain melts away with the summer sun's warmth!
Or, another way to put it... I believe we can actually "listen" to the sermon of a great sunrise. Think abour it: no matter how dark the hours are beforehand, once light starts to break in the East, nothing, absolutely *nothing* can stop that sun from dispelling the darkness, --- until all the glorious colors in the heavens are literally shouting, "WAKE UP! COME SEE THE NEW DAY, --- and it's *GLORIOUS*!!!!!!!"
And just like nothing can stop the sunrise from happening, so, too... nothing can stop our thinking from expanding, --- past the limits put on us by other human opinions that would wish to keep us forever bound in mental slavery. God speaks to us not in clamouring, conflicting, disagreeing human opinions; but in a "still, small voice". And His sermons are literally everywhere... in the statuesque forests of the giant Redwood trees... in the crashing surf of the sea... in a song or piece of music that lifts us out of selfishness or depression... in a kind word or deed... and, yes, even in the beauty of a magnificent head of hair, blowing in the breeze!!
Maybe the "Judgement Day" has nothing to do with any calendar; but instead, hourly & continually shedding off the old ways of thinking, and putting on the new.
- Ken
Wow Ken you've inspired me. You always have such a way with words.
Wow, Ken, thanks for such beautiful and inspirational words! I agree completely that being in Nature brings us closer to God.
There's a verse in the Bible that speaks of this at Romans 1:20:
"For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the worldÂ’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship"..
Since you were dealing with her canned responses you really couldn't get her to see your points but the one about being different was great, Jason. While I can understand a group wanting to have a similar look to be identifiable they don't exactly stand out with all the short haired non-Witnesses running around. If looking different from others was really the goal then it seems to me their men should have long hair since that is less common than short.
While I'm at it making up rules I'll also take on her idea that personal wishes shouldn't have to be satisfied and say the women need to be different too. To set them apart as Jehovah's Witnesses they will have completely shaven heads. Now that is very uncommon among American women so that would be a great way to be visible to represent the faith.
I am sorry many people you had as friends no longer are. Although they wouldn't agree, your faith is stronger than theirs. You are thinking and asking questions so they cut off contact with you to preserve their beliefs. That sounds a pretty shaky faith if friends with another way of thinking are a threat.
The truth of a belief is not dependent on others believing in it too, though they seem to think that way. To me it is a show of trust and strength to have friends that believe differently. For all your questions they fear, you have not lost faith in your God, only the administration. That says a lot about who is really afraid of other Witnesses examining their beliefs.
Elizabeth
I totally see your point. However, knowing how JWs think, what she really meant by 'different' is in the sense that JWs would be different from all the 'worldly', 'rebellious', 'unkempt' etc. styles found in society. They would stick as closely as possible to the accepted 'norm' of society, ie. short hair/no facial hair for men. Her point was that by doing so Witnesses aren't stumbling potential converts who could be turned off by any out-of-the-norm styles of grooming. She views me as not fulfilling my commission to witness because supposedly I'm alienating people by my long hair.
Again, no Witness women would do this because shaved heads on women are generally viewed as outlandish by society. You bring up a very good point though about standards applying to women too. Just because society doesn't in general see anything unusual about women having short hair, JWs do not enforce a requirement for women to have long hair whereas they do enforce the requirement for men to have short hair. There is a double standard with regard to the application of 1 Corinthians 11.
Thank you. Your words mean a lot to me and they're very true. If a belief can't stand up to scrutiny, just how strong is it? I'm viewed as a cancer by some, though not all, Witnesses and most would be scared to death to discuss some of the issues I have with the organization.
I'm enjoying the process of finding new non-judgmental friends. I don't find social interaction to be the easiest but I'm gradually branching out. Thank you for your comments.
Jason
Thanks for the clarification, Jason. I got sidetracked thinking more about groups that try to be identified as apart from mainstream society like Amish, Shakers, Hutterites...
Elizabeth
And they believe that it's alright to alienate a minority for the sake of the majority?
Read 1 Corinthians 9:22.
Jason, I am sorry to hear how badly all this has effected you concerning your relationship with the church, and also the many acquaintances you had through that. From what little I know about Jehovah's Witnesses (my great aunt was JW and I went a couple of times to the meeting with her), it does seem very inviting from the publications and the little books that they give out like the Watchower and such. Now, where all this breaks down in my opinion is when someone, like you, is excluded from this group that you were whole-heartedly wanting to remain a part of (at least I think you were), because of a certain physical characteristic such as your hair length. Now, what female JW member would be excluded if they came into a meeting with their new short haircut? Or what member would be excluded for any other reason? The times I went to meetings, I do remember several women sporting what I call short hair, although at this time, several years ago, I had not yet attempted growing hair. So what I am saying, is that any religious organization of any type, when they use things lke this to exclude one of their own, then that is what is un-Godly, or unbecoming of them. I am sorry this happened to you, but regardless, I know this has hurt you. Good luck with everything.
I know zilch about religions ut i do know aout politics, and politics are what run most major religions and the root is CONTROL.
and thats exactly what i just read in yout post, a religion/political movement about control
e.g. you must stay at home and have kids if you are a woman - or you are BAD
you must have short back & sides if you are a man or you are AD
...
kind of thing
p.s. ethics & morals, right and wrong have nothing to do with religion or politics (politicians, lets face it are usually the most corrupt on the planet of earth, religious or not)
imo
p.s. my 'b' on my keyboard has gone sticky , sorry!
I know it might be somewhat tangential to the purpose of this thread, but does anyone know if JWs & Mormons share the same viewpoint in regards to mens hair length? Just curious.
Mike
This has been a very long journey for you Jason, I know. We've seen you travel it for years. For many of the earlier years, you seemed to be stuck. No more. Congratulations!
Interestingly, Jason's advancement along the way has very much been proportional to his hair length. While he was stuck, he was in a yo-yo cycle of grow and trim, grow and trim. Now he's just growin'. And now we see he's been growin' a lot more than hair!
Good for you, Jason!
May Jehovah be at your side as you celebrate the way He made you,
Bill
Thanks Bill. It has indeed been a very long journey. It's wonderful to feel so much more like myself. I do believe I was created like this and I'm taking a certain amount of pride in finally asserting myself.
Oh, my... Perish the thought!
- K
I think you are telling us you are gay but being a "long-haired guy man" sounds like it amounts to much the same thing. Intentional or not you've coined a nice phrase. :-)
A long haired guy girl myself,
Elizabeth
Dude, sorry to hear that you are getting dogged like that. i Roll LDS. or Mormon. I have earrings, the only guy im my ward to have them, and we have a long hair as well. my bishop for the ward is like, its all good. just come to church and be a good christian! (he is different than other bishops.) all im saying is, if you are a spiritual person find a place that is right for you and worship.
good luck man,
J
I'm not very familiar with JW apart from what everyone's heard, but I think you're holding onto the long end of the straw.
God (Jahveh, Jehova, YHWH, etc) created man with hair that grows, and the style of hair that most people sport this day only came around in the last century.
Think of the Nazarites, who made a vow to God about something, and for the duration of that vow, they weren't allowed to cut their hair.
Does that sounds like God hating long hair?
Just a few things to think about.
If I were you, I'd search for a Church that accepts you as you are.