new thread
Hello,
as much as I admire this board I think its engagement in encouraging ALL people to let their hair grow out leads sometimes to wrong results. the honorable effort not to "hurt" anybody leads always to the standard feedback type "you look good". there is never a controversy or discussion about this topic. if somebody is posting his pics, he is risking "negative" AND "positive" feedback. But here is almost never any "negative" feedback - thats not only boring, its also not honest, I think.
I live in a big city in germany and every day I see at least as many guys looking horrible with long hair as guys looking good with long hair. that has nothing to do with age or physical attractivity, its simply a question of type, style and facial physiognomy. and there ARE many guys which should not grow out their hair, which look far better with short hair. OK, you may argue thats a very personal viewpoint of pure subjectivity, because not everybody is growing out his hair to "look better" but for completely different reasons.
But the regular results on this board make me feel its not honest. This board has in my opinion a too much feel-good-united-in-harmony attitude.
"Negative" feedback does not have to mean, that you have to hurt somebody or start flamewars etc.. But it should be allowed to say "no, that doesnt fit for you in my opinion" or "that length is too much, cut off a bit and it looks better etc.".
why do you never read such opinions on this board?? I would really like to know that....
I think a bit more courage to controversy could make this a better discussion place.
best regards
Leto
I agree that comments like 'I think that a few inches off would look better' shouldn't be seen as negative and thus avoided, but at the end of the day are those comments really relevant? Posters don't need to be told what might look better; if they thought the same they would have already gone down that path. You say that the forum's positivity and support leads to 'wrong results' - no such thing exists other than in the head of the hair's owner. I strongly doubt anyone here actually LIES about their thoughts, and I assume those people will simply leave no message at all.
At the end of the day this forum more closely follows the mantra 'follow YOUR desires' than 'grow your hair long'. If growing one's hair is the desire, one will thus receive support to grow the hair.
Matt
Everytime I see someone on this board who had long hair then decided to cut it, ended up looking worse in my opinion, even though they themselves thought they looked better with short hair.
So perhaps you might call me biased? Perhaps every true long hair is biased in this respect, in that they LOVE long hair, full-stop. Otherwise they would not be here on this website encouraging others on the journey.
You say you see people with long hair who would look better with short hair, yet surely this is also your own subjective viewpoint? And anyway, sometimes the transitional awkward-looking phase may not always look the best, but its just a step towards a long-flowing fantastic looking mane. Some people give up before they reach their full potential. But just look at the true long-hairs on this website who have persevered and I think everyone agrees that they have amazing hair which suits them perfectly.
You are making a serious mistake if you believe it is our place to tell someone that they should or should not have long hair. It is theor chjoice and what you may not like iotehrs do - we do not want great discussion on the rights and wrongs of opinions. I actually think a great many man can carry off shaved or long - it is their choice although I know which I prefer. Their is noe hatred or venom here of the type you see on the 'other' Board when a oong hair posts there.
If a guy wants it then it is his choice and when he asks for advice or assistance this community is especially good at giving it as well as encouraging/reassuring those who might be under some pressure from work or relatives to cut. If you look at one or two posts there has been criticism of one individual who posts - largely because of the cross dressing elements.
I have regrown in the last two years and at 55 know that whilst few are opening critical many disagree with me publicly. Their views are irrelevant, I like it and there is an end to it - this Board gave me the confidence to do it simply by reading of other people's struggles.
If it doesn't look good (or just seems irrelevent to me) than I just don't respond to the post.
Seems to work, as then I don't have to compromise my honesty for their feelings.
I agree entirely with your points. I've always suspected that the overwhelming level of positive responses here relates to the heavy moderation of the board. I share your point of view, though, that a less restrictive representation of opinions would be much more healthy and honest. The apparent "positives only" policy is one big reason I rarely post here, although I frequently read.
As a mod here, let me just give you a little insight here. NO negative feedback posts are moderated, EXCEPT for those that are blatant with profanities or dangerous sentiments such as death threats.
Capice?
The moderators are faced with the task of distinguishing between "constructive criticism" and troll posts. Experience has shown that criticism will only be taken as constructive if the person who is doing the criticizing has a known and good reputation here and has said positive as well as negative things about others. Opinions from such people tend to be honestly held and are generally posted, be they positive or negative.
The board is not "heavily moderated" by the way. About 85% of posts go right onto the board without being seen by the moderators at all.
Bill
Hi Leto. (Is that as in Leto Atreides? I or II?)
There are several approaches to this.
Constructive criticism: There is a fine line between hurting someone's feelings and telling them what might help their hair. There is no use to upbraid someone even if you do not like the way their hair looks. If a poster feels that someone might look better with his hair styled differently or trimmed a certain way or layered or whatever, then I don't think I would have a problem receiving a comment like that. A while back, I posted a picture and someone said I should straighten my hair. I have no desire to do that and am not going to, but the fact that someone else thinks my hair might look better straight does not bother me. There are several here who maintain their hair at certain lengths, and then those who go for terminal length. Either way, an opinion you receIve here is always subjective. I don't think objectvity is even possible in such a situation.
The problem you run into is that for some of us, we are not so worried about filling an aesthetic ideal so much as we are fulfilling the desire to have long hair. For some, long hair is reached with less than perfect reults, whatever perfect is, again a spiral downward into subjectivity's realm.
It seems if you receive a comment that your hair looks good, then you can take it as it is, as subjective as it may be. Why would some random person that you know only through electronic means seek to curry your favor?
Then we have...
"IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!"
We have all usually heard this before, and lots of times, I stand by the mantra. If you don't think some poster's hair looks like what you think is good, then tell him you like his shirt!.
As a moderator, and other of them will agree I think, we try to moderate and maintain the board with some sense of decorum to it. I have never liked getting flamed, and I suspect that others feel the same way. The boring, feel-good aspect (your words) that you see does exist to some extent I think. First, by its nature, long hair on men in many places is not mainstream, thus not overwhelmingly supported by a fellow's friends, family, or co-workers, or bosses in many, many cases. Thus, this board is somewhat of an oasis for guys who seek to grow and who have long hair where they can be accepted and not flamed for their decisions to grow hair and have long hair. Secondly, this board is not a free-for-all for that very reason. A free-for-all board descends into the shadows inevitably, and it is not a small effort on the behalf of many people that keeps this board in the 'light.'
Finally, if you feel that a comment should be made about some poster about his progress picture, why not make it? If you are not hurting someone's feelings or telling them that their hair looks terrible and should be cut, I certainly have no problem there with it.
Or, maybe we should ask that disclaimers be added.
If one wants all comments, add "Any and all comments appreciated."
If not, add "Positive, touchy-feely comments only."
;-) What say you?
As I said to the last person who accused us of not being honest and had a special insight into the "truth" that nobody else here seemed to have (remember ex poster Sambo?), how can you possibly know this?? Ok I got that rant out of my system, that kind of accusation really bugs me for some reason :)
If I don't have anything positive to say then I would simply not post. I agree that people should be honest and if you can compose an honest and civil post even if its not gushing praise I can tell you it will not be blocked by we moderators. If you are civil and constructive you will get posted. So I encourage you to set the example for everyone here who feels the way you do. That way everybody wins, I am looking forward to your future posts, I do hope that people will be less afraid to say what they think because I really would like to know if I look stupid and nobody tells me :)
Perhaps this is too simplistic, but I think that the only real criterea for whether or not someone should grow out their hair is if they *want* long hair or not... It's really not up to us to decide "hey you look better with short hair, so cut it".
I think that part of why people post here is to get positive reinforcement that it's both good and OK to grow out their hair... which is somewhat lacking in our societies. I never needed anyone to tell me it looked good enough on me for me to keep it, I just needed support to continue on with what *I* wanted. I am very thankful for all the support I received during my growing process because without it I probably would have caved in (again) to society's pressure to maintain a short hair style. The benefit of this group isn't necessarily a bunch of "yes men", it's having a small subculture of long-hair men you can relate with and, quite literally, grow with.
hi,
first of all, I don't think negative feedback is even necessary here, I mean, isn't ignoring your post even worse than an insult?If someone were to flame me on a pic of mine...I'll be like "whatever man" and shrug it off immediately...but it bothers me when my posts are ignored (fortunately that doesn't happen to me here). Secondly, as Dean said, most of us here belive that long-hair enhances the looks of a guy, which is why you never see negative feedback here..and lastly...I don't think there is an issue of not being honest...if people here were fake then everybody would comment on EVERYBODY"S update pics...do you see that happening?no...
This board is a great place to get support and talk about long hair..MODERATORS..thank you!! :P
especially from Bragi (and the other moderators), yes it enhances my understanding of the "philosophy" behind this board. Indeed, if the position here is, that (almost) every individual decision to grow out the hair has to be accepted and not judged by categories of aesthetics or attractivity or style etc. and every decision to do so is generally regarded as a "positive step" then no discussion is needed. I see, the "supportive character" is the main purpose of this board.
(but then also no feedback on posted pics is really needed, because its basically always the same...only my opinion)
But I like Bragis idea with the "disclaimers". That could indeed prevent misunderstandings.
well, as a casual visitor I will subdue under the regulations of course, I simply misunderstood the character of this place.
Do I ever look at someone's long hair and not like what I see? - Yes.
Do I ever think that it would be an improvement for them to have shorter hair? - Quite honestly, never!
There is a PoV in which some people think that hair length should only be decided after taking into account hair type and face shape, and maybe some other factors that I have not thought of. However, that is not a view that I subscribe to.
I know that with proper care it is possible for someone's hair to look good long irregardless of whether it is thin or thick, fine or coarse, curly, wavy or straight, and irregardless of whether their face is long or short, round or square, etc. I think that short hair will still not suit their face better.
Not everyone is handsome, or young, or able to grow hair on top of their head, but do I think that short hair would in some way alleviate any of these conditions? No, I don't, and in particular, although I have a full head of hair and am of course naturally good looking (!!!) I beleive that far from making me look younger, shorter hair would make me look older or at best just as damned old!
Am I biassed? Of course, but my PoV is just as valid as anyone else's.
I will concede a couple of things. I do think that if someone has a particular length and style that looks good on them and which they like, then they should probably stick with it, whatever it is.
I also think that most people can look good with any length of hair, with a couple of exceptions. Firstly, if you have hair that is fine and wavy, like mine, then extra length tames it, as the extra weight straightens it, not completely, but enough to comb less frequently than every five minutes! Secondly, buzz cuts look good on 1% of people or less, and make the rest look frightening.
All that said, from my PoV, there is bever any reason to tell someone they would look better if they cut their hair, as it is never true.
Even in the case where they have problems with their ends it can often be improved greatly by changes in hair care without cutting, and in the worst case scenario calls for 'search and destroy' trimming of only the split ends, or a very small trim for those who lack the patience for the former and can tolerate the fact that the stylist will inevitably cut off about four times what they ask for.
Hi Leto,
That's a GREAT-looking head of hair ya got there! But, of course, it's best not to believe a word I say, since I just admitted that I really enjoy telling lies a lot!!
Truth be told (now even *I* am beginning to doubt my own statements...), my main goal in life is to mislead others, --- to make them all walk "astray", by encouraging all men on the planet to grow their hair out. Of course, if that means the planet will then be all peopled by more longhairs, then I will be very happy about that; because that will mean that I will then be THE MOST GORGEOUS OF THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Ha ha ha he he he... evil grin while rubbing my hands together!)
If that ever happens, then pot-bellied middle-aged greying longhairs like me will then be able to change the world's fashion-standard of "beauty" over to EVERYONE wanting to look exactly like me me ME!!! Yes, it really IS "all about ME" (he he he ha ha ha he he he ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha he he he)... and then, the world will all be MINE! MINE, I say, MINE!!!!!!!!!!!
(The sound of sirens coming closer now, closer... LOUDER... The ambulance men get out, trying to put the strait jacket on... a crazy middle-aged longhair tries to resist... tells the ambulance drivers they need to grow their hair out... the white jacket is on now, nut-case longhair is taken away... far, FAR away...)
- Does that answer your question?
(Ken in San Francisco)
Knowing you, Ken, I at first thought you meant THIS kind of "lying"!
Bill
I certainly don't think every person with long hair looks good or whether their hair itself looks good and I certainly wouldn't compliment someone if I didn't think their hair looked good.