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I dont know if this qualifies as a bald spot... I took a hi res photo of this and examined it closely to see what the heck it really is. Since I can't see the back of my head this is the only way for me to examine my hair... what do you think?
I took a closeup of this "bald spot" with the camera like 2 inches from the spot (while holding it in a very awkard position) and used max resolution with macro activated. I tried to zoom in but the auto focous would not work right at such a close distence... I dont know why. I dont know how to work the manual focous on this thing... which is another reason I wish I had a DSLR camera... they just turn a ring on the lens to manual focous.
Hm... I dont know. Maybe you just have thin hair? DSLRs are nice though, I just bought one.
Hi Tai Fu,
This is a tough call. I don't know if you saw my reply to your update post below. Earlier, I had thought it was simply the way you combed your hair and also you did made some comments to another poster that both you and your sister had relatively thin hair, so I didn't think there were any problems. (Also, your front hairline showed no problem)
Your current picture leads me to believe that it really would be in your best interest to get a qualified medical opinion, as Jeffrey has stated. You have nothing to lose, the best being that your fears are laid to rest, the worst being that you will be starting treatment at a young age, when it is most effective. Another question I do have is, have you ever noticed this thin spot before?
My family doctor has recently told me I have early signs of MPB (I'm 53) and I have started treatment with propecia. My only prayer is that I haven't started too late.
Wishing you all the best, my prayers are with you.
David
DavidN, I think that you have said it well. A medical diagnosis is in order. If the scalp shows very much at all then the hair density is either naturally low, or some degree of MPB is taking place. I think that if a man is 53 and exibits only mild signs of MPB the a drug like Propecia will probably stop MPB in its tracks. My hair density is not very high in my crown area, for example, if I braided my hair like Jason did in his recent pictures I can guarantee you that I would have some scalp showing. I could not wear that style very well. The diameter of the hair shaft will affect actual hair density as well, but that is very different and that may be what we are talking about here. In other words, I can't really tell if the problem is due to hair shaft density, or due to follicular density. One issue concerns volume and one concerns quantity. BTW, I didn't realize that you are a Chemist. I'll have be a little more careful in choosing my words from now on. I know its very early, but, I do hope that the Propecia is working well for you. When I first started Propecia I had a nasty little side effect that subsided further on into my treatment.
Hi Jeffrey,
I've only been on Propecia for two weeks, haven't noticed any change so far, but I understand it takes around 3 months for beneficial effects to show. How long did it take for you to notice benefits? (It may be tricky for you to judge, since I understand you are using Rogaine as well) I think I know what "nasty side effect" you are referring to, I have not noticed that, if anything (if it is the one I'm thinking about), it has had the opposite effect LOL! I also have continued to take B vitamins including Biotin, adding zinc and vitamin E to the regime as suggested by Hans-Uwe. I have continued with the Saw Palmetto as well. I would certainly love to be able to braid like Jason, but I don't think I'll ever have the density for it. (I also notice cosiderable scalp showing when I tail, but there are certain activities where a tail is necessary). Thanks for all the help and getting me started (hopefully) to licking this MPB. If the Propecia helps you'll have my blessing forever.
David
Here's what my crown area looked like a couple of months back. How bad do you think this is?
David
Thanks for the informative picture. Your crown looks very similar to what mine looked like about 3 years ago. I think that it will be VERY interesting to see how well the Propecia works for you. Personally, I would use Rogaine in conjunction with Propecia. I fully understand the reasons that you may not want to do that, but it would almost certainly be to your advantage. From my experience I can say that Rogaine will probably not produce good quality hair, but it does grow hair in many cases and the hair that it does grow works very well to fill in the crown area. Receding hairline is another matter entirely. I suspect that you might even see some benefits from using Rogaine even if you only use it before you retire in the evening. I should mention that Rogaine foam is not very messy at all if you allow it a little time to dry. It is actually more like a styling product. To sum things up, I don't think that you are too far over the edge and I do expect Propecia to provide noticeable results for you. Whatever you do, just be sure to stick with it. Remember, MPB never takes a day off.
Thanks again, Jeffrey. I guess the truth of the matter is that I'm pretty heartbroken about this whole MPB thing right now. What makes it extra hard is remembering the hair I used to have when I was younger, lovely thick hair resembling Jason's hair now, and wanting it back. I know it's all too easy to yearn for one's youth! Sorry about the rant, I know I should say, "It's only hair", just needed to get it off my chest. I'm really praying the propecia works.
David
Jeff - I just wanted to ask how come to switched to Dusteride so early in you're battle vs MPB ?
I know it inhibits a greater amount of DHT but the battle against MPB is in the _ long term _ .
My own battle I've decided to use propecia for hopefully 5-10 years then upgrade to dusteride when its effects begin to dull... I just wanted to ask why go on dusteride straight away....I thought it would make more sense to go on the weaker and gradually build up there by having a long term treatment master plan rather than go on dusteride straight away and give 5-10 years who knows your body may adapt to the drug and it be far less effective?
I may not be making any sense but I hope you can make out what im trying to say :-P
Don't like to interrupt, but your point raised with Jeffrey makes sense to me. I just started the battle myself 2 weeks ago, with Propecia. I had thought about Avodart myself but you have raised some serious thoughts that I should stick with the Propecia and hold off on the Avodart until I really need it.
David
Hi David - Yer that was my plan too ... I did post on the board about 6 months ago now asking peoples oppinions of wether I had early signs of MPB or if I just had a cow lick at the crown (Take a look for yourself here the pics I posted back in July -> http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i104/KaptainKiddo/ ).
Anyway as Ive always been pro-active rather than reactive I got on propecia anyway and Ive been on it since July.
My hair has deffinately not got any worse and my hair loss I notice in the shower has practically seezed... I am due to take another batch of pictures soon as I was planning on taking regularly photos every 6months to track any progress or not...
As I am only 6 months into treatment and havent noticed any regrowth of the kind or maybe there has been but I'm so preoccupied with it I havent noticed... anyway they say that you will notice regrowth in 9 - 12 months if you will experience any at all so who knows... I would be happy just to maintain my current hair neway.
Luc
Hi Luc,
Thanks for the pictures, your hair loss looks very mild, if there is any hair loss at all. I was wondering if you actually had a doctor diagnose you with MPB, I'm not sure from the pictures if you even have MPB. (Therefore I wonder if you really need propecia) (I only joined MLHH in October so I don't remember your earlier posts) I can't really tell from your pictures, but you do appear young. I was only diagnosed recently, you can see from my post to Jeffrey the loss in my crown area. I, too have noticed very little shedding recently, but that actually improved before I started propecia, I really credit the reduced shedding to better overall hair care since discovering this board. All the best.
David
you know the problem with all these MPB medication is that for me its too expensive to use it long term. I mean I understand someone in the 40's might be economically well off enough to use them on an ongoing basis but for me even 100 dollars worth of drugs is too much without some kind of financial help. I looked into hair medications and most of them cost an upward of 100 dollars for a 1 month supply. Regaine is actually inexpensive compared to alot of those other MPB fighting medications. As for my scalp I think I have a low follicle density naturally for some reason, because no matter where I part my hair the same amount of scalp shows... However I do have a thicker hair shaft compared to most others...
I think I have a low follicle density naturally for some reason, because no matter where I part my hair the same amount of scalp shows... However I do have a thicker hair shaft compared to most others...
a sparse hair count.
Hi Tai Fu, I think your hair volume is fine. Your hair strands are very coarse. I saw that closeup photo and was amazed. Your hair shaft diameter is probably in the 110 micron range. (Hair shaft diameter in asians can go as high as 120 microns.) Mine is in the 70 micron range. Each hair on your head has 2.5 times the cross sectional area as mine does. For total hair volume to match, if I have 100,000 strands you would only need to have 40,000.
Your total hair volume is probably at least equal to mine, if not more. What is the circumference of your ponytail just below the tie? Mine is 66 mm (2.6") To make this measurement cut a little strip of paper about 1 cm in width. Start out with a piece over 10 cm in length. Trim little pieces off of the paper strip until it fits loosely around your ponytail. Measure the strip of paper.
Again, since you mention you hair density is the same all over, it is unlikely you are going bald.
Absalom
I measured it with the tape measure at work (they use that to measure packages that's being mailed to make sure they aren't too big) and I got it roughly around 6 cm. I dont know how accurate because it's real hard to get the tape measure around my tail. There are several shorter hair that doesn't quite reach the tail so I suspect it might get slightly bigger...
How do I measure the diameter of my hair shaft? do you think a dial caliper from a machine shop will work? they measure in .001 inches.. what is that in micron? When I had a dial caliper however I measured a few thin objects around the house... a sheet of standard xerox paper (letter or A4 sized... it doesnt matter) measures to about .005 inch.
In any case as I said, my sister also have naturally thin hair as well. Not all asians have naturally thin hair because I noticed alot of people with various hair thickness, thin or thick. I seen alot of women with a ponytail diameter of 2-3 inches or more. However I also seen alot of men around here with thicker hair than mines (as in more hair follicles) when they are young but only to succumb to male pattern baldness... as a side note my dad also has a kinda thin hair... but then he's like almost 60 years old. He said he was balding but I haven't noticed any less hair for all these years...
Yes, I agree, not all of your hair has reached ponytail length. Give it another 6 months and your tail circumference will likely be bigger than mine.
The best way is with a microscope with a measuring reticle. If using a caliper, do it VERY gently to not flatten the hair strand. Otherwise your get a lower reading. (.001" = 25.4 microns)
This is actually good news for you. After reading this, I would say it is very unlikely that you will ever have MPB.
Absalom
But the bad news is my Grandfather is bald... not completely though. He is about 90 years old... I'd figure anyone that old it'd be a surprise he has any hair left... if he is still alive.
The good thing is, at least right now, you do not have any areas on your head where your hair is thinner than elsewhere. The best thing to do is to monitor it as you get older, and if your hair starts to thin, then do something about it.
Absalom
Arter one year it seemed that I tolerated Propecia quite well. During that time I came to the conclusion that Avodart was the better choice. My reasoning was rather complex and involved two primary factors: (1) Available medical research. (2) Corporate Politics.|| All the available medical research indicated that Dutasteride inhibited 5~AR 1&2, whereas, finasteride inhibits only 5~AR 2. I felt that it is very likely that both 5~AR 1 and 2 play a role in MPB. Actually, I felt that type 1 may be more likely to contribute to MPB more than 2, furthermore, there is no conclusive evidence that Propecia, or Avodart ever truly looses their effectiveness. I base this on comments from Dr. William Rassman, a leading hair transplant surgeon. Now, corporate politics come into question. I think that Merck and GlaxoSmithKline both knew that Avodart is the more effective of the two drugs, however, FDA trials can take a long time and cost a lot of money, but FDA trails would not cost as much as legal litigation. By this I mean there are many drug companies that are being sued due to problems that arise concerning their medications. I felt that GSK knew all along that Avodart would be used for hair-loss, however, their warning label states that it should only be used for benign prostatic hyperplasia. This greatly limits their liability should the drug be used for an off-label purpose, such as hair-loss, because it was never intended for that purpose. They did Phase 1 trails for Avodart. In other words, they did just enough to let potential users know that Avodart was effective, then they backed off. They may have even completed Phase 2, but I can't remember for certain. Avodart increased hair count over Propecia by a considerable number. I think this was a very clever move by GSK, but I have no proof and I suppose that's the whole idea. The only other reason that I chose Avodart is that I have never been much of a "side effects" kinda guy. I drive a truck and I suspect there is a much better chance that I'll get killed on the highway than from medication, but only time will tell. With the way people drive, the odds of getting killed on the road ain't too shabby! :)
Well, I started with Rogaine. The Rogaine alone was enough to conceal my crown area and that took four months. I started Propecia to address the problem at the root. I may fall apart tomorrow, but for now the meds have worked very well. Ti-Fu has detected a "possible" problem and that is great. A lot of guys will not under any circumstances admit that they may be thinning and to compound the problem is that the crown area is easy for most of us to overlook. If you notice in Ti-Fu's previous posts, he states that it was difficult to even get a picuture of the area. I had to same problem the other day when I took a shot of my crown, no, not Crown Royal:) I had to try 7 times just to get a picture of the top of my head! The primary reason that I discuss MPB to such an extent is that young guys like Ti-Fu can usually counter the effects of MPB if they detect it early enough. Time is critical for a young man that exhibits signs of MPB, especially at the crown. A receding hairline is a different matter. Ti-Fu has only a mature frontal hairline at best, which is a good thing. Actually, his hairline is close to being a juvenile hairline. I think that it is rare for an individual to have thinning at the crown and posess a juvenile hairline. This is why I am very interested in a medical opinion. Well, I better get a little work done. Happy 2007!
I have seen the pics. I believe that the area in question is too wide to be a part. Your crown looks almost exactly like mine did a few years ago. I made some posts about that a while back. I was diagnosed with MPB. After about a year on medication my hair has become much thicker. I now use Avodart and Rogaine. I used Propecia at first with much success, however, Avodart blocks DHT even better than Propecia and I wanted as much DHT elimination as I could get. If you hair is thinning then you need to start treatment as soon as possible. I say this because once the scalp becomes "slick" then there is little chance of bringing the hair back. I did see an Asian woman that had a situation very similar to yours and she had Alopecia Areata, which is very different than Androgenetic Alopecia. She had beautiful black hair and she was able to conceal the area. Since you hair is black then any thin area will tend to show since there will be a contrast between the scalp and the dark hair. You really should see a qualified medical professional for a proper diagnosis. I would only see a Doctor in this particular case and not a barber, or beautician. Usually, the frontal hairline will recede before the crown will. This is what I find a bit confusing. It should cost very little for a Doctor to take a look. If you see a Doctor, please let us know what he/she says. I am curious.