new thread
Hey guys,
I have not been happy with my hair for a long time because it is very very dull, has no shine at all. I don't know if it is that some people's hair is just that way but nobody else here seems to have that problem from what I can see. Have any of you had or have dull totally unshimy hair like I have in the pic? If this is correctable what should I do?
I have read that shine comes from allowing the sebum to build up on the hair and not wash it away, but if I dont wash it regularly, as in every day, it turns into a sticky gunky mess that is not pleasant at all to touch. I know this seems like a lot of washing but I have been using VO5 shampoo and conditioner because I wanted to try not using a 'cone brand. This seems to have made my hair feel much softer even when I wash it everyday. It feels great to me this way but the thing I hate is that it has no shine and sucks light like a black hole :(
Is this sebum thing correct, I was using Pantene Ice Shine because it was supposed to create shine by filling in the gaps and rough parts of the hair shaft and create a smooth surface for light to bounce off of.
Problem is neither of these worked for me and as far as shine goes was the same as in the picture here, the Pantene just made my hair feel a little less soft and more plastic.
What is the secret of shine if anybody has had the success in bringing shine back to dull hair. Or is it genetic. I don't think I damaged it unless the washing is enough to totally ruin hair. Is shampooing every day that damaging? The alternative for me is sticky hair that nobody likes to touch.
Is shine an inherent part of hair and can't be achieved with products or is there something I can do. I am frustrated noticing all the nice shiny hair here and on people I see on the street.
What really makes hair shine?
I am guessing that the shine thing is more about the physical makeup of the hair. Pantene contains cone so it fills in those gaps.. thats what the cone does. However if the person was not too healthy the hair tends to be weak and not shine... I don't really know what works because its different for everyone. In the meantime maybe using oils like jobaba or something might help a little with the shine, or at least allow the hair to not get tangled as much.
I would suggest washing less often. Perhaps you can use a boar bristle brush. They are great for distributing oils throughout the hair and can actually bring out some shine in your hair.. I speculate that the dullness that you claim to have is most likely being caused by overwashing. I suppose a lack of proper nutrition can also contribute to dullness. Well , With that said , I don't see the dullness that you are describing. I personally think that your hair looks quite healthy. It looks superb! By the way , I strongly think it does have an adequate amount of shine....
All the best,
~Christopher
I periodically try to skip a day or two between washings but my hair looks and feels worse when I do this then when I wash every day. Though its not too great with washing every day either it is the lesser of two evils :)
I do have a boar bristle brush but don't use it every day, thats and easy habit to get into though. It helps a little.
Thanks for the info Chris :)
Hi Chris,
I think the overall condition of your hair is fabulous. Particularly in the picture of the back that you posted earlier, the ends seemed in excellent shape, so I don't think the lack of shine is due to damage, in fact, I did detect some shine in the back picture.
It is true that washing frequency can be a bit tricky, if hair is too dry (caused by too frequent shampooing) it tends to lose shine but obviously you don't want greasy hair. The oil in hair is what gives it its natural shine. As your hair is so straight, you should be easily able to brush it with a fairly fine brush with no damage, which would distribute the scalp oil from the roots to the tips, this would also make it less greasy in the root area, possibly reducing your need to shampoo as often. With the natural oil distributed more evenly, it should shine more. Also, finding a proper shampoo and conditioner can be very tricky, I found I got the best results from conditioners with cones (I felt ny hair seemed dry with cones free products), BUT I used a clarifying shampoo at least once a week to reduce buildup. (Personally, I don't like Pantene products with one exception, their clarifying shampoo)
Hope this helps, and all the best,
David
Thanks David,
The reason I have to wash each day is not that my scalp gets oily and irritated but that the entire length of my hair does seem to get sticky and gummy which I guess is the sebum and the strands clump together. If I wash every day then my hair feels soft and clean and the strands fall apart from each other and don't stick. The thing I don't understand is that all the pictures I see here people's hair looks shiny and not oily either, as in the strands seem to not be clumped together or stringy. Just can't figure out how you all can get away with washing less often though I know that is very common here. If I have to choose between soft clean hair and shine I will take clean but I was wondering how you guys managed both.
Oh and the camera's flash does sometime give the false illusion of a very shiny hair. This works especially well on black.
hi Chris,
hmm..seems to me the closest black hole is actually very closer than I thought!!(lol,kidding!!) :))
it really depends on a lot of factors whether your hair will shine or not.As it's already been said,sebum promotes shininess big time.overshamppoing will definitely strip away any oils you may have and hence the hair would look dull.like Tai Fu said,cones promote shininess.when I was on the cone-free method,my hair was really greasy and not very shiny.now that I'm using a pantene conditioner (I use a VO5 shampoo),my hair is a bit shinier and doesn't grease up as easily.however..be careful not to overuse cones cause a build-up might cause dry hair,so it's a good idea to clarify the hair like Dave said.perhaps you should either consider:
1)CO'ing a few days, or
2)not washing the hair at all for a few days
see what works.
also,it really depends on the lighting whether or not your hair will shine...I mean,if you're not in a well-lit place during the photo,your hair isn't gonna shine.In some of my photos my hair doesn't shine at all for this very reason.Now,if you were to take a photo with flash and your hair STILL doesn't shine,THEN I would start worrying lol..
I hate to say it but those pics you see were with a flash, I kid you not! Hence this questiion :)
Hi Chris hope you are feeling much better these days and thanks for your e mail the other day.As for the problem you are having with your hair I would think you just need to experiment more with product and diet too does play into this as was mentioned.I find myself changing my hair routine occasionally as for one thing the weather conditions seem to play a roll too.Like right now with the bitter cold and dryness of the air I now wash my hair every other day because daily seems to dry it out too much.However when it warms up and there is more humidity in the air I need to wash daily otherwise my hair looks crappy.Also going to the gym also plays into my washing as well.I also find that rotating my product is something else I need to do as what worked so well for months all of a sudden doesn't work anymore so I then use a different product which seems to help.In fact I just bought a new Loreal vive pro conditioner for men that I want to try so I'll see how that goes.I know you don't want a closet full of bottles but thats the price of having long hair!LOL.So give it a try with other products and if you feel that daily washing is what you need then by all means do that.Finally make sure your diet promotes healthy hair too.Let me know how it goes as I'm curious how your hair would react to change.Oh by the way going to visit friends tommorrow to watch the Daytona 500 so don't forget to tune in.Any favorite driver?? Take care Chris and talk to you soon.Mark
Thanks for the information Mark, I have heard that changing products once in a while is effective for perking up hair. I will switch to some of these other recommendations and see what happens. Thanks again
Well, I've always heard "protein". At least this site agrees too:
http://beauty.iloveindia.com/hair/healthy-hair.html
Hopefully, these are all foods that are good for you to eat. Who knows, it could be a clue to improving your health. If your body isn't getting enough protein, or using the protein that it gets, it seems like that could impact lots of things besides hair.
And if a daily can of Alpo followed by a Rocky-style raw egg beverage isn't practical; there's always Jojoba. A little of that goes a long way. Jojoba is supposed to be chemicly similar to the natural oils that help make hair shine too.
Of course, if it's protein you wouldn't recognize the difference for a while. I suppose it's also possible that some people have a natural genetic tendancy to grow hair that simply isn't shiny.
thanks for the info steve, I will have to try the jojoba oil treatment, that seems the easiest one to start with. I bought some of this a while back but then lost interest i fixing my hair until recently.
I just replied (or THOUGHT i did); but it disappeared into thin air/Cyberspace...
Anyway, I've been thinking of you recently (just yesterday, in fact), Chris, and have been debating about writing you, to find out how you're doing... and then, lo & behold, here's this post from you!!
Glad to hear from you!!!!
As far as the shine in hair goes... I'm not sure myself what makes it happen. But, one thing I have found is that trying out different hair care products can often lead to the perfect discovery. For myself, I tend to prefer the more expensive shampoos and conditioners in health food stores, --- although even some of those I've found out to be not so great. My current favorites are: 1) Avalon Organics Nourishing Shampoo & Conditioner (Lavender or Rosemary bein my favorite types); 2) Olive Glossing Shampoo (and conditioner); 3) EO Products' "Hair Repair".
#2 you can get at "The Body Shop" stores. The other products i get at Whole Foods grocery stores or healt food type stores. I also use Kukui nut oil on my hair ends.
Anyway, hope that helps!
- ken
Thanks Ken I appreciate the recommendations, I will need to look for these products, since we have both stores you mentioned it shouldn't be a problem. I will have to try these different recommendations over time and see what works.
And Ken feel free to write me anytime, I would love to hear from you (when you're not too busy that is). I always love email :)
Actually, I think that your hair looks great. I did find an interesting article about K-9 hair. I know the hair isn't human, but, I strongly suspect that the same principle applies to humans as well as K-9s. I do think that animal protein helps which may explain why the Eskimo have such shiny hair. My Doctor has told me that wrinkles and dry/dull hair is seen more often in vegetarians. Anyway, here is the article:
COLLEGE STATION -- Why do people own dogs? According to Texas A&M University veterinarians, a major reason why people become so attached to their pets is because of their "furry value" - dogs are fun to touch. And having a healthy coat promotes increased contact between a dog and its owner, with frequent contact ultimately strengthening the human-animal bond.
One of the features of a healthy hair coat is its sheen. Robert Dunstan and Kelly Credille, who teach veterinary pathobiology at the university's College of Veterinary Medicine, are studying what makes hair shine. They have found that the shine attributed to a healthy dog's coat is largely due to a complex group of fats secreted through glands in the skin known as sebaceous glands.
"The sebaceous glands function as a natural 'Pantene dispenser,' Dunstan said. "Like conditioners that humans put on their hair after shampooing, the sebaceous fats coat the hair and make it shinier. If we can influence the type and amount of the sebaceous fats, we should be able to improve the appearance of dogs.
"Currently, we are studying the role that nutrition plays on these secretions," he explained. "Specifically, we are determining whether changing a dog's diet can cause a change in the activity of sebaceous glands."
Dunstan and Credille's research, funded in part by the Iams Company, a leading pet food producer, involves feeding a high- and a low-quality diet to a canine colony consisting of Labrador Retrievers, Miniature Poodles and Siberian Huskies - three breeds with very different coat characteristics in terms of appearance and the amount/time of shedding. The researchers then evaluate the dogs for differences in sebaceous gland secretions.
"Because of regulations established by the dog food industry, all dog foods on the on the market must meet minimum daily requirements," Dunstan said. "Even the worst commercial dog food is like our eating a bowl of vitamin-enriched cereal every morning. However, preliminary results do indicate that higher quality dog foods do produce shinier coats."
And shinier coats mean dogs look healthier, something that makes owners happier and more willing to play with their pets.
That is an interesting study and echoes things I have read on hair care sites. That the sebum oil is what makes the shine. I am not sure why but it seems my hair just gets gummy when it isn't washed for more than a day. It sure doesn't get shinier, not sure what that means. Thanks for the info jeffrey I shall look into this angle more to see what I might be doing wrong, if anything.
Hi Chris,
What I do is I try to rinse my hair and scalp once a week with a solution of 2 cups water and 2 spoons (not sure the exact amount) Apple-Cider Vinegar. This does a pretty decent job of removing gunk and buildup, re balancing my scalps pH (or so I've heard), and (what you're looking for) gives it really decent shine by sealing the cuticles.
It's a cheap, natural, and easy solution that might work for you. :)
Gummy hair also sounds like it may be caused by leftover buildup from your Pantene Ice Shine (maybe?). The vinegar rinse might help with that. It'll also cut some of the excess oil that might be giving you odd results.
I also use VO5 brand shampoo/conditioner with good results. What kind do you use? Also, did you know that they released new formulas? I just started using the reformulated Sun Kissed Raspberry conditioner and so far it's even better than before, but it's too soon to tell for certain.
Whoops. Accidentally pressed enter and it posted my message before I was done editing fields.
I use Neutrogena clarifying shampoo now to remove the buildup from the V05, I use the balsam protein version. I just picked one that didnt have the silicones in it because I heard they dry out hair. I will have to look for the new conditioner as well. Thanks for the info, I will probably end up trying all the methods I have heard here or some combination of them.
Protein might also be your problem. It's good to have protein, but some people might get too much in their hair. Personally I try to avoid shampoo and conditioner that has protein in the ingredients because it makes my hair... funky. I don't know how to describe the feeling other than my hair gets dry, frizzy, and "clumpy". It's sort of like when I was using silicones.