new thread
These are the kinds of guys that give all Long Haired Men a bad name.
http://www.deicide.com/main.html
That is disgusting,i am amazed at how that can not be illegal...these guys should be burned at the stake.
I agree with that!!!
I *hope* that you're being very sarcastic here. Last I heard, freedom of speech extended to virtually all forms of speech (except crying fire in a theater, etc, which this doesn't qualify as), regardless of who may find it offensive.
My, but you're thin-skinned. It's a band. Big deal.
BikerMane
Viking
First of all, let me say that I found the website very distasteful, not some place I want to go revisit. Having said that, I disagree with you. This is not what gives long hair on men a bad name. That existed before these guys or any like them. The bias against long hair is basically on of control. In our culture, a man who grows long hair is going against the norm, he is declaring, however subtely, that he will not be controlled by others expectations. On a gut level, those who dislike long hair on men know that, are disturbed by that, and begin to project their own fear of losing control onto men with long hair.
The same has been done with people of color, with women, with homosexuals and with the mentally different. Someone from one of those groups does something outrageous and someone will say: this is what gives ______'s a bad name, when all along, the speaker did not like or was afraid of the group. This just became the latest occassion to bash them.
So, be disgusted with this band's anti-religon if you want to, but people were disliking and frightened by longhaired men already. This group just gives them their latest occasion to bash.
Robert
My sentiments exactly
Well, I have grown my hair for almost 6 months now, and its in an awkward stage. My brother a little rap/jock/mr popular guy is wanting to cut it, and said he's planning on doing so while I'm asleep, I tell him I'll bash up his car if he does, but then he'll take me guitar (which is sacred) Anyways, he seems to believe that all longhairs are white trash, which we have arguments over and over. I was wondering how do you think society got so fucked up to make people so prejiduced and closed to different cultures? (not that its just a brother thing, I sometimes get it at school, however I get alot of positive feedback as well, not like I'd cut it anyways)
don't dignify your brother's threats with any responses... chances are that he's just trying to get a reaction from you.
Yeah I tend to think that as well.
ight now its at my ears (bottom) dry, I love it right now, totally phyched fer it to be grown out.
Dustin
Your brother sounds a bit like my sister. I tend to just lock my bedroom door at night. And ignore her pleas to let her trim my head again. I also threaten to shave her head... :) (which, unfortunately won't work with your bro)
-J (almost 26 and still have people trying to control me - Grrr)
Actually being against Christianity is very legal, and personally I support them as all religions has perverted our society for way too long.
couldn't agree with you more!
I couldn't disagree with you guys more. I believe Christianity has made more changes on earth for the good than any other movement or force in history. Many of the positive contributions Christianity has made through the centuries are as follows:
1. Hospitals, which essentially began during the Middle Ages.
2. Universities, which also began during the Middle Ages. In addition, most of the world's greatest universities were started by Christians for Christian purposes.
3. Literacy and education for the masses
4. Capitalism and free-enterprise
5. Representative government, particularly as it has been seen in the American experiment.
6. The separation of political powers.
7. Civil liberties
8. The abolition of slavery, both in antiquity and in more modern times
9. Modern science
10. The discovery of the New World by Columbus
11. The elevation of women.
12. Benevolence and charity; the good Samaritan ethic
13. Higher standards of justice.
14. The elevation of common man
15. High regard for human life
16. The civilizing of many barbarian and primitive cultures
17. The codifying and setting to writing of many of the world's languages
18. Greater development of art and music. The inspiration for the greatest works of art
19. The countless changed lives transformed from liabilities into assets to society because of the gospel.
Erm.. I'd like to just mention Galileo Galilei, a famous mathmetician come astronomer who believed in cosmological theories which were against what Christianity taught at the time, "and in 1616 Galileo was given some kind of secret, but official, warning that he was not to defend Copernicanism ... Galileo, who was not in the best of health, was summoned to Rome, found to be vehemently suspected of heresy, and eventually condemned to house arrest, for life, at his villa at Arcetri (above Florence). He was also forbidden to publish. By the standards of the time he had got off rather lightly."
All this for having his own beliefs?
Personally I'm not against Christianity, anything that gives people hope, principles etc can only be a good thing, but I think your post is extremely biased and somewhat exaggerated to be honest. I hope the above example helps to show this.
I did a quick search on the Internet, you may find this site relevant, regarding science vs. religion:
http://www.rnw.nl/science/html/religion2000215.html
Regards,
Charlie
Yes, the Roman Catholic Church mistakenly, misguidedly, censured Galileo in 1632 by imposing Aristotelian thought on the Bible. When the Roman Catholic church attacked Copernicus and Galileo, it was not because their teaching actually contained anything contrary to the Bible. the church authorities thought it did, but that was because Aristotelian elements had become part of church orthodoxy, and Galileo's notions clearly conflicted with the Aristotelian teachings, and not the Bible's. In fact, Galileo defended the compatibility of Copernicus and the bible, and this was one of the factors which brought about his trial. In recent years, the Roman Catholic church issued a public apology for its censure of Galileo.
Everything I listed above was in fact started by Christianity and not just my opinion. All of these branches of science were started by Christians:
Antiseptic surgery, Joseph Lister
Bacteriology, Louis Pasteur
Calculus, Isaac Newton
Celestial Mechanics, Johannes Kepler
Chemistry, Robert Boyle
Comparative Anatomy, Georges Cuvier
Computer Science, Charles Babbage
Dimensional Analysis, Lord Rayleigh
Dynamics, Asaac Newton
Electronics, John Ambrose Fleming
Electrodynamics, James Clerk Maxwell
Electromagnetics, Michael Faraday
Energetics, Lord Kelvin
Entomology of Living Insects, Henri Fabre
Field Theory, Michael Farady
Fluid Mechanics, George Stokes
Galactic Astronomy, Sir William Herschel
Gas Dynamics,Robert Boyle
Genetics, Gregor Mendel
Glacial Geology, Louis Agassiz
Gynecology, James Simpson
Hydrography, Matthew Maury
Hydrostatics, Blaise Pascal
This list goes on and on...
All these men believed in the Bible's account of creationism. These men gave the world science.
What I am questioning is the point "Everything I listed above was in fact started by Christianity".
I find this rather inaccurate, why not compile a list of all scientists who had long hair and their achievements and say "Everything above was started by long hair"?
Rather a silly analogy, but it illustrates the point I am trying to make.
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
It is curious to observe how the theory of what is called the Christian Church, sprung out of the tail of the heathen mythology. A direct incorporation took place in the first instance, by making the reputed founder to be celestially begotten. The trinity of gods that then followed was no other than a reduction of the former plurality, which was about twenty or thirty thousand. The statue of Mary succeeded the statue of Diana of Ephesus. The deification of heroes changed into the canonization of saints. The Mythologists had gods for everything; the Christian Mythologists had saints for everything. The church became as crowded with the one, as the pantheon had been with the other; and Rome was the place of both. The Christian theory is little else than the idolatry of the ancient mythologists, accommodated to the purposes of power and revenue; and it yet remains to reason and philosophy to abolish the amphibious fraud.
The major churches of today (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) are pretty much the same with a few minor differences.
If none of these appeal to you, let it be known that there are many more solid life-affirming religions out there. Beyond the obvious alternatives like Buddhism, Hinduism, and Shinto, there are various pagan religions that have millions of followers and pretty much have no center control or no "rules" as strict as the major three and it could be argued that they are purer. Then, there is atheism and agnosticism if those appeal to you. I figured I would write this for one because I haven't been here in a while and secondly since I plan to major in world religion. Dorky me, I know.
For what it's worth, remember that Jesus has long hair :o).
Nova(John)
That seems likely, but look what I found.
http://www.llano.net/baptist/jesuslonghair.htm
Actually, all they appear to prove, is that ROMANS liked short hair.
er...I added the link
We don't know that. The Roman catacombs depict Jesus with
short-cropped Roman-style hair.
OM
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Ok, I'm going waaay off topic here, but your history is off base.
Medical practice reached a very high stage under the pagan Greeks, ancient Indians, and Chinese. Much, much higher, I should point out, than was achieved in the west until the late 1800s, if not beyond. Christianity actually set medical progress waaaaay back, because dissection was outlawed by church law for centuries- meaning your average 'doctor' in the christian west during the middle ages knew about as much about healing the human body as about fixing a computer.
What about Plato's Academy and the Library at Alexandria?
Literacy wasn't particularly common for 'the masses' until well into the Renaissance, and even then illiteracy was common. Literacy for the masses was more driven by technological change (the printing press) than any particular religion.
Capitalism was a product of the Age of Reason. I'm not sure about Adam Smith's religious beliefs, but capitalism would have been soundly rejected by the church in earlier times when it had more power- note the outlawing of charging interest by the church for centuries, which severely hampers the ability to capitalize businesses.
Ummm.... last I heard the ancient Greeks pioneered representative government. Granted, it wasn't a perfect democracy, but then neither is ours.
Which many religious groups are currently trying to undo.
See note 6.
The christian stance on slavery was that it was barred to enslave *other christians*. Everyone else was fair game. Which is how so many black africans and native americans were enslaved by western christians. And, for that matter, northern European 'barbarians' were enslaved in earlier times.
Ummm.... I don't think so. Science goes back to the ancient Greeks, who reached a very high level of scientific sophistication. It was thoroughly expunged in the west until its rediscovery in the Renaissance, and many of the later discoveries (think Copernicus, Galileo, and Darwin) have been accomplished with much hindrance from organized christianity.
The 'New World' might have been new to Columbus (and before him to the Vikings under Leif Ericsson), but the native people beat them here by many thousands of years.
Maybe in the last century. But for the other 1900 years of christianity, women were regarded as chattel.
....counterweighted by the Inquisition, quite a few Crusades, persecution of Jews, heretics, and non-christians, mass enslavement in Africa and mass genocide in the Americas. I'm not saying that christians as a whole aren't benevolent and charitable... but then, most of the buddhists, hindus, jews, muslims, and atheists I've met have been good folks too.
Higher than whose? For most of the history of christianity, 'justice' meant that you did what the church told you to, or you died, often in a hideously painful manner.
Ummm... ok. I don't even know what you're referring to here.
I'm sure that the victims of the Inquisition really appreciated that.
Which was generally accompanied by murder, enslavement, forced conversion, and the destruction of said 'primitive' cultures.
Written language goes waaaaay farther back than christianity.
This is very subjective. Who can really say whether the Parthenon was less great than Notre Dame Chartres? Or the Sphinx is less great than the Mona Lisa? And we don't really know what pre-christian music in the west sounded like, since it doesn't seem to have been written down.
So, us non-christians are liabilities? Silly me... I am educated, pay my taxes, give time and money to charity, and follow the laws. I guess that just isn't good enough, eh?
Hail, Redwing!
I am assuming you are Native American. Speaking as a Heathen of Northern European ancestry, I agree that white xtians are a blight on all others with whom they have come into contact. when the Northern Europeans rejected their ancestral Gods and Goddesses, they became spiritualy drunk with false pride and embraced "manifest destiny". Just like persons who are litteraly drunk, they became swollen with hubris-10'tall and bullet-proof. Now the hangover has them spewing more of their lies than ever.
Heathen Europeans had more in common with Native Americans than many people know. We, too, thanked animals we killed for food and used as much as the animal as possible. Contrary to popular myth, however, we did not put steer horns on helmets-we drank out of them. The helmets are a byproduct of Wagmer's Valkyrie operas.
Our pre-xtian religion was nature-based and holidays were centered around the solstices and equinoxes.
Also, men wore long hair. We also braided our hair in two locks like many Tribal Americans. I braid my hair in this manner from time to time like when I go to a Sons of Norway Lodge meeting. As for my religion, have you heard of Asatru'? we're on the net. Anyway Lief Erikson did beat Columbus here by 500 years. And keep in mind,He landed on the actual continent; Columbus was out in the tropics far from Vinland. There is a funny cartoon in an Asatru' Magazine where Columbus is in his cabin on the Santa Maria. He writes to Queen Isabella, "Your Majesty: There is good news and there is bad news. The good news is that I have found the new world for Spain. The bad news is that the 'Indians' already have a second language: Norwiegan!"
I met a Mexican American with LH not long ago. As we were talking about "Songs from a Painted Cave", a Native American production and CD. The stage production is to Native Arts what Riverdance/Lord of the Dance is to Celtic culture. Painted Cave is performed by an all-Native troup of musicians and dancers. The music is made up of both tradional flutes and drums as well as a full rock combo.
The Mexican 'Indian' told me he was Aztec. I felt so ingorant. I did not know people still considered themselves Aztec. I thought it was a lost race. With his LH, he looked like an Aztec Warrior and I asked him if he believed in Quixoquatal. "NOOOOOO, I am a Catholic". I asked how he could be a catholic given the xtian charity so generously doled out by Cortez. The conversation was over at that point. The white man rejected Thor and Odin for the kristcult then forced the kristcult on the rest of the world.
Do you follow a Native religion?
Hail the gods and goddesses of the ancient children of the Earth! May the man-on-a-stick cult implode on it's own arrogance!
I bet that explains why Native Americans used bows and arrows like their Medieval counterparts!
Your claims are exaggerated and incredibly biased.
Medical practices outside of Europe were quite adequate, and more advanced in some ways, without hospitals similar to those that were created in Europe.
That may be true of Western universities, but does not explain the origin and purpose of universities outside the Christian sphere of influence.
Many cultures had extensive written languages and high literacy rates before Christianity reached them. Japan has an incredibly high literacy rate and yet remains relatively untouched by Christianity. China also maintains a high literacy rate because their pictographic writing system is essentially the same for all Chinese dialects. Many nomadic cultures had no use for writing because they were constantly moving and lacked space to store written records.
Capitalism and free enterprise existed well before Christianity and would exist without Christianity's influence.
Actually, many of the concepts present in American government came from native governments, which existed well before Europeans realized that North America existed.
This has yet to truly occur. The legislative branch of the United States of America still begins each day with prayer, which is technically a violation of the separation of church and state.
Civil liberties existed in many Native American cultures long before Christians reached North America. Many of them enjoyed freedom of speech and democracy before meeting Europeans; most of them didn't even understand the concept of a king in the European sense of the word.
This can't be specifically attributed to Christianity either. Many American and Asian societies had no use for slavery. Christianity has yet to completely abolish slavery. It continues to exist in different forms and under different names.
Modern science was, and continues to be held back by Christianity.
Columbus discovered nothing. People lived in the Americas long before he was even born, or do they not count for some bizarre reason? Columbus wasn't even the first European to discover the Americas; the Vikings, more properly referred to as the Norse, discovered it about a thousand years before Columbus did.
Christianity was more of a hindrance here as well since most people opposed to giving women more rights referred to the bible as proof.
This isn't a concept that Christianity introduced. Buddhism values and encourages kindness as well and it was founded hundreds of years before Christianity was founded.
Not usually. Capital punishment is hardly a higher form of justice. People are often prevented from killing themselves so that someone else can kill them on a specific date, wasting a great deal of resources in the process.
That is true, unless he or she happens to be a non-Christian.
Many Christians only value human life when it's convenient.
Provided that "civilizing" is a euphemism for genocide. Most "primitive" and "barbarous" cultures were much more advanced than European cultures.
Many languages existed in written form long before Christianity existed.
Art and music progressed in areas well outside the influence of Christianity.
This is more of a conclusion than a point, but at least it's a comlete sentence, unlike most of your other so called points.
So far you're 0 for 19. Care to make it 0 for 20?
i don't know if god is a lie or not.. ( i think it is though, but i respect the ones that believe in god)
But Sainterclaus is a lie too, now i'm gonna form a band that will try to ban all things sainterclaus in the world , who's in! LOL
Deicide is just a Black/Death metal band which is trying to be Heavier than Ozzy or Metalica.
When bands like Sabbath/Ozzy, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest started to get on the radio and MTV, some fans of Metal needed the genre to stay unexceptable because they listened to the music as one aspect of their lashing out at conservative institutions. It was almost like having your Dad not only tell you that how you wear your hair is your own kettle of fish, but try to embrace some fad you're into only to prove embarrasing.
The genre of Metal needed to push the envelope farther so as to make Ozzy Osbourne look like Neil Diamond by contrast. This is a fascinating sociological dynamic. The style got darker, heavier and started using differant modes of the musical scale which made it less toe-tapping and accessable to someone who liked The Eagles as much as Black Sabbath. And this was in direct proportion to the demand from marginalized kids who were lashing out at real or percieved persecution from parents, peers and "the system" at large.
Ozzy, solo and with Sabbath, got into some pretty dark subject matter dealing with the Occult and Biblical topics. When this became just-shy-of-mainstream in the media, some of the fan base dropped off in persuit of the next level of Quasi-Occult themes and Chord Progressions that lendt themselves to a darker mood. So bands started singing in favor of death and hell and satan and they started using upside-down crosses and inverted pagan pentagrams. These bands lacked the disipline to really study occultism the way Masons and some neopagans do. They were just playing to the demands of the disinfrancised headbangers who percieved themselves as having "lost" Ozzy and other older Heavy Metal acts to the mainstream tastes of people with whom they did not identify. School Yard politics: I don't like you because somebody I already don't like DOES like you.
Deicide are not giving me, a heavy rock Bass player, a bad name. They are meeting a demand with a product through production and promotion and that is what makes free-market economics go 'round My students, or the paying parents, are college students, businesspersons, a lawyer, church musicians, and a Marine who is going to try to become a policeman next year. I have never been asked why somebody with my talent, education and general demeanor wants to be associated with Deicide. The days when LH represented Hippies vs. the Military, pro-drug-use and just generaly not gittin' with the program are 25 years gone. I have held dayjobs in a doctor's office, an insurrance agency
and a police fundraiser. Deicide is not your problem; your problem is with the image that sells them to their market.
deicide plays great music, and even though they've failed to realize that satan is a christian invention, they do know that organized religion is for the weak
Yeah, I seriously doubt that they've got an alter to Mr. Redhorns or practice the Temple of Set/Satanist "religion". Bear in mind that even Satanists don't believe in the litteral existance of Satan; they are actualy humanists/atheists who profess Satanism as a way to futz with xtians heads.
Being that you have high opinions of Deicide's soothing melodies, have you heard any of the Norweigan Black Metal bands?