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For those of you in California, in particular the SF bay area, I'm looking for some advice on what to seek or avoid in terms of living arrangements. There is a chance I may have a job offer in San Mateo. If you were working in San Mateo, where would you rent an apartment?
I'm not really looking for specifics necessarily, just general location and type-of-place advice. Any "gotchas"? Like, I know that here there are some "garden apartments" in certain areas that are not very desireable, and I can kind of tell by looking when it's that kind of place. OTOH, rowhouses are *cool*. Is there any phrase like that I should be on the lookout for? Is craigslist a decent search tool, or is there some local paper I should check out for good places (e.g., you can get a whole different kind of advertiser in DC's City Paper vs. The Washington Post. Not necessarily better, but certainly different). Does San Mateo itself have any appealing areas?
Since it's such a totally unfamiliar area, I wouldn't even consider buying at this point, renting only for a year at the most to see if things work out and if I can live comfortably there.
And, I guess maybe I should avoid Walnut Creek, eh Bill?
I've lived in the Bay Area since 1980. I don't think there are more than a handful of bad places to live here. For example, San Jose claims to have one of the lowest crime rates among cities of its size (1 million). My joke about this is that crooks simply can't afford to live here. The one place near San Mateo that I would avoid is east Palo Alto.
The Bay Area is expensive - be prepared for sticker shock. Also, not many people live close to where they work. Expect a commute, particularly when you reach the house buying stage.
You may want to travel here to check out places to rent. I'd avoid any lease that has a longer term than monthly. That way you can always find another place to rent or buy. A good choice might be to get an apartment near a university. Good luck!
Ed
Thanks dude. I read the Wikipedia article on EPA and it's so sad it's funny. They have a motel sinking into a landfill, and the place literally has Indian burial grounds in it.
I agree with everything that EdG said. The Bay Area is shockingly expensive (which is why I haven't moved from my rent-controlled SF studio apartment), and you're smart to just rent until you feel you know the "lay of the land" (and your new job) better. It may be difficult, though, to find a suitable place that doesn't require at least a one-year lease.
As far as San Mateo itself goes, it's a very lovely suburb, --- and close to some of the highest-priced homes in the whole Bay Area. My brother and sister-in-law live in neighboring Burlingame, --- another really nice suburb, and close to the airport. This whole general area is commonly called, "the Peninsula", --- and San Mateo County I believe is the #2 county in the US considered to be most expensive to live (North of the GG Bridge, in Marin County, is supposedly the #1).
One of the reasons that the Peninsula towns are so pricey to live in is because of the climate: to the West, over the coastal mountains, is the famous coastal fog belt, --- where summer temps usually only reach into the 60s even for daytime highs. On the inland side of these coastal hills, though, --- where most of the population is --- is a much sunnier & warmer "banana belt". It probably sounds pretty strange, coming from the East Coast, that out here you can drive a short distance and actually change to a different climate; but if you picture that the ocean has a very cold off-shore current here, coming directly down from Alaska... contrasting with a ridiculously hot, baking (over 100 degrees usually), inland Central Valley... Well, this is why you get such a strange phenomena, --- especially in summer. Generally-speaking, the further East you go in the Bay Area (like to places like Walnut Creek, Concord, or even as far as Sacramento), the hotter and more intolerable the summer climate gets (but the cheaper the rents and houses for sale are). Conversely, the further West (towards the ocean) you go, the foggier and cooler and damper the summer weather usually gets, --- with the Bay Area in the middle being pretty much "ideal".
I'm mentioning this, because the Bay Area weather patterns, --- and specific sections, called "micro-climates" --- can and do have an effect on home prices. The first 2 suburbs South of San Francisco, for example, Daly City and Colma, are famous for their bleak & windy overcast/foggy cold summer days (hence, people don't want to live there as much as they do in much sunnier & warmer Burlingame, San Mateo, and Palo Alto, etc.).
Hope this info helps you in figuring out where you'd most like to look for your new home to be!
- Ken
This is great info about the climate. I think I'd be depressed if it was July and I stepped out the door and it was 60 and foggy all the time.
In this area, Arlington, VA is a very desireable suburb because it's close to DC; but the weather is the same over a broad area.
The interesting thing about the SF bay area is that there is development on both sides of the bay, and it looks to be spread out. Here there are almost nothing but resort towns on the "DelMarVa" peninsula, so the bay problem is not even a problem. The decision of which side to live on is made for you.
DC is not really a bay city (it's on the tidal Potomac, which is like an arm of the bay), but if you include that, then Baltimore, DC and the cluster of cities near Virginia Beach are the three major areas. That part of Virginia is a separate region--too far to commute. Baltimore is close enough to DC for long commutes especially since there are commuter trains just for that, and most importantly it has inexpensive housing of all types. It doesn't look like SF has a Baltimore; but even if it did I'm not sure I'd want to do that. Long commutes can be a real grind. I don't know how those people do it.
haha. With Google maps I can see that San Jose is (distance wise) what Baltimore is to DC. But in terms of cost-of-living, they are not much different. The weather changes, but the cost of living seems to remain high everywhere. Does that sound right?
Pretty much so, yes.
The "cheaper" areas in the SF Bay area to live sort of fall into a few different categories. "Cheap" is a relative concept out here, of course (lol); but here is where I would look that is close to San Mateo, --- as well as I'll mention a few places to avoid --- and why...
1) "Cheaper" due to heavy fog belt area: Daly City, Colma, parts of South San Francisco, and parts of Pacifica (which, even though directly on the coast, can be sort of "trailer trash" in some parts). San Bruno is where the transition starts, --- some parts are less expensive than others. Milbrea is where prices start to climb back up again (the weather here starts to improve, as well as the town is much nicer).
2) "Cheaper" due to bad neighborhoods: East Palo Alto, --- avoid it! (Although I did at one time have friends that used tolive there).
3) "Cheaper" because of being on the East side of the Bay (across the San Mateo Bridge): Hayward, San Leandro, parts of Oakland, Castro Valley, etc. Be careful with parts of Oakland and Hayward, as some neighborhoods can be as bad as East Palo Alto.
4) Further East (Pleasanton area and beyond)... gets cheaper for the obvious reasons of both the hotter weather (90s & 100s), and also increasingly major commute distance.
Hope that helps!
- Ken
That depends on how much the job pays, and also whether the job is near the CalTrain station or not. And also, what ambient conditions excite you.
On the peninsula, real estate is more pricey up in the foothills than it is down in the flatter areas near the bay. There are a few somewhat funky areas in the flatlands, so it always pays to ask in any town about crime before signing a lease for a place. Palo Alto is very nice, for example, but nearby East Palo Alto is like living in Iraq. There are also some quite funky areas in Redwood City, but other areas in that town are nice.
I have a friend who has owned a home in San Mateo for many years and he lives in a nice neighborhood. I can put you in touch with him if you get out here, and he can tell you where to look and where not to, if you want to be close to work.
Part of it is, of course, where you want to live. If you are really into surfing and want to be right by the ocean despite icy cold weather, you might opt to be over by Half Moon Bay or in San Francisco out by Ocean Beach. If you are into the nightclub or cultural scene, you may want to live right in San Francisco. To some extent it's a "reverse commute" driving down to San Mateo from "The City" so the traffic isn't that bad.
Do not get a place on the east side of the bay unless you relish long periods stuck in traffic. When bridges get jammed up there are NO SIDESTREETS to avoid the mess. [grin] The bridges here are all way underdesigned for the traffic they carry, so you don't want a bridge regularly in your life.
It's the best. It was started by a local guy here, and it has now spread to lots of other cities, so you know it has to be good. The newspaper publishers hate it; it wiped out most of their classified ad revenue.
Yes. They will also make a very large monthly appeal to your wallet. Before taking a job here I would not rent an apartment, but I would get a feel for the price range so you'll know you have a plan in case you get the job. You may find it tough to rent an apartment without a job offer in hand anyway. They'll want to see it often before offering a lease, especially if you've just come from out of the area.
Good idea. But do consider price versus safety of areas. Being stuck for a year of bills can be frustrating if their size does not match your budget. Being stuck in a battle zone for a year is also not pleasant. But all this same stuff would apply if moving to D.C.! Everything I'm saying except the climate stuff and "avoid the bridges" is what you'd hear moving to any large metro area.
Well, it is a long way from San Mateo, and it is on the other side of a bridge. But if you like traffic jams, long commutes, and hot summers, go for it! Everything about the Walnut Creek area is "suburb", so you'll like it if you like the suburban scene. They definitely have that season we don't have, called "summer". It can be 105 in Walnut Creek when it is 75 in San Mateo. At the same time it might be 65 here in my neighborhood in San Francisco and 60 out by the ocean.
As with any metro area, the types of people in neighborhoods may vary, too. The Haight may be nostalgic for some longhairs, but it has lots of druggies wandering around. Some areas of San Francisco are VERY Chinese, and if you are not Asian you will feel out of place, although living there is safe. Some suburbs on the peninsula are very Filipino or have other predominating groups. Besides the social scene, the makeup of the area will affect what sizes of clothes are available in the stores, what food the restaurants have, what kinds of stores there are, etc.
Let us know, the California MLHH Contingent, if you're going to be out here! Besides just meeting up, we'll give you info and show you around!
Bill
I hadn't actually considered public transit to be an option out there. I've experienced drive-only, drive+train and walking commutes. I have to say that walking is far and away the best, drive-only is next, and then drive+train is a major hassle.
I already know that walking won't be an option, and it looks like work would be a mile walk from Caltrain, so a straight drive makes the most sense. Actually having been able to finagle a walking commute here was just a real fluke.
Perspective: Where I live now, there is a resurgence of grafiti tags. Murder has occured recently, and within walking distance, but I know the rules: don't be part of a Black or Latino gang, and don't go outside between 2 AM and dawn. Nothing can eliminate the chance of being killed, but playing by these rules can dramaticly reduce it, and being a White middle-aged professional, it's really easy for me to follow these rules. My place obeys the "stay west of 16th street NW" rule, but only by a couple blocks. I can walk to the Kennedy Center; I can walk to some genuine 'hood areas. Everything is that close together. I get the impression from you guys that wealth does not abut poverty out there. My last company was in the same building as Madeleine Albright. The park next door is full of homeless people, and they pass out food for them there. That's 3 or 4 blocks from the White House. No kidding.
In DC, it would be easy to get the impression that income disparity is more dramatic in the US than it really is. In the 'burbs, almost everybody is what I would call upper middle class, and it sounds like the SF bay area has that all compartmented off in a similar way. At any rate, the point of all this is, I don't mind a little "funk". A part of me is wondering if I will get out there, drive through your 'hoods and think "this is da hood?"
In some ways, I suppose getting shot is DC's version of getting killed in an earthquake. You can take some sensible precautions, but nothing is foolproof. Not that long ago, a prominant man from the UK got killed in a very nice part of town while visiting here. Although, he was out between 2 AM and dawn.
heheh.
cool. I'll keep looking there to get a feel for the market then.
Well, as I was saying in the response to Urban Cowboy, it seems like the expense is there for miles around with not too much variation--no Baltimores where you can commute further and reduce your cost of living. Given that, it sounds like living as close to work as possible to reduce the commute makes a lot of sense.
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Wow, thanks for the long reply. Lots to think about. Really the only thing I miss about the suburbs is charcoal grilling. I took it for granted all those years.
Yup, charcoal grilling takes on a whole different "flavor" out here: if you don't mind the afternoon coastal breeze ripping freezing fog past your face and causing goose pimples under your clothes, you'll be fine!
I'm glad Bill mentioned the part about the difference between the flatlands and housing on the hills, --- very true, and very much a "big deal" to some folks if they can get a home high up on some hillside with a view. If you can live without that glamour element, you can definitely save yourself some $$!!!
And I agree again with Bill that if you can possibly avoid having to cross a bridge to/from work/home, then by all means, DO !
Have fun exploring and getting to know the Bay Area!
- Ken
A brief background: I was born and raised in the South Bay (San Jose)...moved to Santa Cruz in 1999 and left the bay area completely 2 years ago because the stress and high cost of living finally got to us. My wife and I rented and had 2 good jobs in high tech with a combined income of nearly 160K. Year after year it was getting harder and harder to exist (rent can go up substantially every year) and we finally gave up and moved away which was very sad for me as I had lived there my whole life and love so much about it.
Although I can't really help you out in terms of living in or around San Mateo, I just have to ask what kind of work you do professionally? What are your biggest motivations for wanting to move there and what are you long-term goals? I'm just curious.
Without giving away too many material details, I'm a software engineer. I have a connection that might yield a job offer out there. Here in DC, software development centers more around security and military stuff. The only reason I live in DC is because my parents raised me here. In the long run, I feel that the SF bay area will offer me a greater variety of opportunities to persue *different* areas in software, or even different aspects of technology entirely. DC, OTOH, is always going to be focused on government and security type stuff. I told the CEO of my last company, "If I'm still doing network security software when I'm 50, I'll consider that a failure". This is in contrast to others who consider themselves "network security professionals" and want to stay that way. There's nothing *wrong* with that; but I prefer not to be typecast. After several years of doing something, I'm going to want to do something else.
Also, I've lived here my whole life, and I do feel that "connection" to the area in some ways. I love the architecture and history of the nation's capital; but at the same time I feel like I'm missing something by never having lived and worked in a really different area.
In the end, I think it would be better for me to say "I tried living in California for a while and hated it" then "I always wondered what would have happened if I had gone to California".
wow...well, the software engineer gig (high tech in general, really) in the Silicon Valley is a tough one...very volatile and extremely competitive. The area is FLOODED with high tech professionals from all over the world. It will definitely be a good learning experience for you but don't set your expectations too high. I've known countless starry-eyed software engineers blow into town thinking they were going to score big-time only to retreat back to their hometowns within a year...totally defeated. Not trying to take the wind out of your sails. But, gone are the days of the "good life" in high tech out there. It's still possible, but so many people out there wanting it and not enough opportunity to go around. Luck is your friend. Many professionals are in a constant scramble to keep any job they can find in that industry. I know...I was one of them. You got to hustle, network with as many people as you can and always keep your eye out on the next opportunities because the job you have today may not be there tomorrow. When that happens and you've got a $1800 rent payment due in 4 days and no money in the bank...it sucks. Yeah, I've been there. The stress of trying to make rent each month is enough to crack most people trying to make it in the bay area.
But, the Bay Area is like no other...very unique, very beautiful and very much diverse. So much to see and do if you're allowed the time (some people do nothing but work to stay afloat). I love it there and will always consider it my home although I'll never live there again. Best of luck to you, man. I hope you can make it work.
Craigslist is good...this is how I got both my short term sublet and my current place. Competition is pretty fierce though, in the City.
I'll reinforce the notion to come out and look around first...you can add me to the list of people willing to show you around...maybe we should get a van?
If work is 1 mile from Caltrain, that is an easy walk or bus or bike (Caltrain has a good bike accomodation)...and drive in nasty weather...which we do have, but only during the winter. That can expand the area you are willing to live.
I live and work in the City, and typically commute by bus/BART, errands are usually bus/walk. Certainly it would be possible to find a place in a neighborhood convenient to Caltrain to commute down to San Mateo pretty easily.