new thread
Rollerama, the web's only male roller site, is going to be pulled very shortly if I do not get more contributions.
There was a flurry of congrats e-mailed to me when the site was first created. But almost none of those people contributed any images. In fact, almost 100% of the new images I have received over the last few months have come from 2 or 3 specific people. As much as I appreciate their efforts, I didn't intend to see Rollerama become a site featuring just a few "stars" of the roller set.
Where are the legions of roller people who used to hang out on HairNet? The ones who regaled us with tales of salons and updos and exchanging roller sets with significant others and the like? Where are all the ones who claimed they had photos?
I think they fall into two categories. The larger (by far) are the "phony balonies" who probably never had their hair in rollers in their life and never had the photos they claim to, and are just living a "virtual" roller set life through the Net. The other, smaller group, are the people who are honest about having material, but still perversely prefer to post e-mails on various boards trying to trade photos with others. In fact, I have received a number of e-mails from people asking me to put them in touch with others who could trade roller pics -- that defeats the entire purpose of why I started Rollerama! When I ask these individuals why they don't just contribute to the web site and share their material with ALL roller fans so that ALL can benefit instead of just a few, I never hear back from them again. I don't understand this mentality -- it makes no sense.
And most of the material I have received has been from crossdressers. I have no problem with that, but I wonder if that predominance has turned some people off. I had hoped to see material from some honest-to-God roller fetishists -- guys who are not necessarily CDs, but have a full head of hair and enjoy getting it set and styled in traditionally "feminine" ways. Where are these people?
I am going to keep Rollerama active for two more weeks. No, I have not updated in some time, because all the new stuff I have comes from two people who already occupy a great deal of space on the page. I am challenging everyone ELSE who is into rollers to "put your photos where your mouth is" and contribute. If I don't get a significant amount of material in the next two weeks, Rollerama will be pulled off the Web. I didn't intend for it to just sit there for months on end with no updates.
I'm sure there are manyordinary males around like myself
who like to have their hair set. But the theme of your site
seems more inclined towards the other types of our society
who like to dress up as women.. Is the point of your site
to show alternatives in 'HAIRSTRYLING' or alternatives
in 'LIVING STYLE.. It appears as if it is the latter. If thats the case
you wont attract ordinary males and therefore you should relagate
your site to the sex sites and take it out of the hairdressing arena.
If you are geniunely interested in keeping your site going then
remove the crossdressers and leave it as a site for ordinary males
to display various male hairstyles which could include roller sets.
Male hair style fan
Di:
Ditto's......
I am both distressed and appalled by your implications.
#1 -- THE SITE WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A "CROSSDRESSER'S" SITE!!!
It became mostly CD-oriented by default because CDs, for the most part, were the only ones who donated material. If you, and others like you, had contributed, it would have been a more "well-balanced" site. If you read the intro page to the site, I intended it to be an eclectic site where ALL males who enjoy roller sets and feminine "do's" could find something of interest.
#2 -- I am distressed by your implication that crossdressing males are not normal or "ordinary." I have met many CDs, and they are, for the most part, average, unexceptional, everyday males, except that they have a need to express their feminine side through their dress and appearance at least some of the time.
#3 -- Your suggestion that the page be placed with the "sex sites" is equally ignorant. For every CD who does it for sexual gratification, there are many for whom crossdressing is not a matter of SEX, but GENDER expression.
Again, if I "removed" the crossdressers, there would be practically nothing left BECAUSE HARDLY ANY NON-CD MALES CONTRIBUTED. I am only able to use the material that is sent to me. Did you send me anything for the site? No! So kwitcherbitchin!!!
At any rate, I've had it with this aggravation. When I discovered the Internet, I was thrilled that here, for the first time, was a place where those with a common interest (like roller sets) could come together. Instead of openness and sharing, I got apathy and knee-jerk judgementalism.
I will soon be turning the site over to an individual who volunteered to maintain it. What this person does with it will be out of my hands. I doubt this will change the level of contributions (and I warned the soon-to-be caretaker of that), but it's no longer my concern.
J.J.
Hi JJ,
Thanks a LOT for your thoughtful post. As one of the CDs who really enjoys
both this Board and Rollerama, I'm baffled by the notion that I'm less
"ordinary" or more interested in sex sites than any other reader. I mean,
if some outsider were to look at this discussion, I imagine that a man who
had his hair put up in an extravagant French roll would hardly be viewed
as more "normal" if he happened to be wearing jeans and t-shirt instead of
a dress. As has been repeatedly and cogently observed here, "Who cares?"
I like this Board precisely because of the diversity of opinions, lifestyles, and gender orientations
Keep posting messages like that one and you'll get dick more often than you do now. I have two theories for why more men aren't submitting roller pics:
1) They aren't comfortable with having pics of themselves in rollers displayed for the world to see, and prefer to exchange pics in the privacy of e-mail with others who enjoy the same pics, or
2) There aren't a lot of males (I would assume) who HAVE roller set fetishes or a lot of desire to have updoes done, save for the select few who just happen to also be cross-dressers. As a result, most of the pics you're going to get ARE going to be of cd's, sent to you by cd's.
Personally, I'm not really fond of roller sets, nor do I have any interest in pics of men with rollers in their hair. The last time I had rollers in my hair was years ago, when I got my first and only perm (and, no, I don't have any pics of the experience).
If I sound a bit forward, it's because your post really pissed me off. Threatening to remove a site that's not getting a lot of popularity votes already isn't going to help improve the polls anytime soon. If I did have a roller set fetish, the last thing I'd do after reading that message is send you shit.
I didnt have the courage to give a strong message as you did
in my message but you have expressed the sentiments that I
and most others would feel. I thnk its childish for JJ to sulk
about his flop.. I think he only has himself to blame for it.
Male hairdressing fan
I think you guys may be overreacting a bit. I have some of the same sentiments as JJ regarding this site, and it becomes frustrating when I get e-mails chiding me for not updating the Samson page for 6 months, for example. This board is very active, true enough, but I have not received submissions to the extent I had hoped. It's frustrating to me just because I don't have the time to do the surfing required to collect pictures. I do my own photography when I can, which is not that often. (I've just scanned some pictures which will go up soon).
You may regard JJ's statement as a threat, but it could also be regarded as a notification. His site is located on Geocities, which, as I understand it, requires a certain minimum of activity if it is not to be removed.
Regarding this site, my position is that I will maintain it as I have time and get new pictures. I will not remove anything in the foreseeable future. I have a couple of nibbles for the Samson page, but nothing set in stone. Submissions are greatly appreciated.
I never said I don't feel sorry for the guy, but the tone of his post warranted the response I gave him.
As for your site, I can understand your frustration with the lack of submissions as well, but the main reason I surf here is the messages. The pics are great, too, and I love the site itself. The "support group" you've garnered with this place is fantastic, and I'd hate to see the site come down; but I'm going to be honest with you: if you ever decide you do want/need to take it down, I'm not exactly going to be heart-broken over it.
If I come across a pic or two of a man with long hair, I'll be glad to submit it to you, but most of the surfing I do is to the home page for the online writers organization I belong to, and several online writing resources I frequent.
The bottom line is this. You've got a really great site. I would absolutely LOVE to see you keep it up, as I enjoy checking out the conversations. JJ, on the other hand, needs to take a valuum(sp?). Now.
AMEN to you, Nyghtfall!!!
Nyghtfall,
I have no intention of taking down the site. In fact, my perspective is that the site is still in its infancy. I just wanted to add a webmaster's perspective on the conversation. Keep your posts coming. They're always appreciated.
Victor
That's a fallacious argument, as I pointed out to several of the people requesting e-mail contact with others. What's to keep the person you send those pics to from displaying them on or submitting them to a Web page? Nothing. If one is concerned about others seeing their photos, they shouldn't be spreading them around in the first place.
It IS an esoteric interest, I admit, but I have come across quite a few males who are ONLY into the hair angle, and are not crossdressers. If a male likes to play with his hair and have it styled now and then in a traditionally "feminine" style, does that make him a "crossdresser?" No clothing change is involved here.
Then why in God's name would you even take the time to respond to my post? This is something I cannot fathom on the Net -- why people post negative responses to something, only to add "of course, this is not MY area of interest." So why poke your cybernose into an area that is of no interest to you? Hell, I don't have enough free time just to play on the Net in the areas that ARE of interest to me -- I don't have the luxury of responding to things that I have no interest in to begin with!
If you have no interest in roller sets, and the message was clearly about that subject, then why would you have even read it in the first place? Lots of things in this world piss me off -- I don't go out of my way to encounter them.
Web sites die for lack of interest. Interest requires sufficiently frequent updates, which I cannot do without material. And Geocities will simply delete a site that doesn't get enough "hits," so those who HAVE shown interest need to be participants for the site to remain viable. But Victor assessed my sentiments exactly -- it was not a threat, but a warning, to those people.
Too late. You already sent me plenty of "shit" in your message.
J.J.
Touche, and point taken.
JJ,
I feel your post has a somewhat sad and angry character about it,
so I'm going to try to deal only with the situation as I see it,
not how it "actually is" OK?
1. I do think there probably is more interest than reality -
As a male hairdresser (and Occasional hairsetter myself) -
I don't see a lot of demand - though I'm not above suggesting
it where I think it's appropriate - I sometimes have to
fight to introduce Women to a hairset, let alone men.
2. Roller sets are in some weird form of disrepute - I think
because we are culturally a little confused about our
hair - we want great looks with no effort and then demand a
hairstyle that will take a daily workout - of course that
lessens demand for a somewhat time-consuming process no
matter what the gender involved. I think it's time well-spent
and frankly is the perfect antidote to punishing your body
for not being whatever is in Vogue or GQ this week. But
there are real reasons why the demand is less than it was.
3. Especially for men, roller sets seem to be a "special event"
thing - and what very few I've done/seen are often party
looks on pretty young guys going for a "rave/club kid" look -
where shock is an integral part of the 'do. Frankly, I'd
rather do these than some kind of nervous, furtive fetish
thing.
4. The image of the TS/TG/TV male as the demand center of
"hairdos" in the male world will continue to distort real
demand and limit fashion options until we get over it.
For example, I roller set my chin-length bob to straighten
my hair and control a wild cowlick in one section of my head -
if you didn't know that I didn't just blow it dry straight -
it's not obvious - and that's where I think more of us have
to start if rollers are ever going to be popular for guys.
5. I'm not a picture collector - but pictures of guys in rollers
are of less interest to me than pictures of credible, good-
looking finished styles - we can discuss the "how do you get
there" after that - I personally am not interested as much in
the process as the result. I have very few pictures of me
at all, and of those where my hair has been "set" you probably
wouldn't know it. I am not sure what having someone take
my picture in curlers contributes.
If someone had a site of kind of fun hair with a variety of
great looks and some/most of them required a "set" all the
better - but to me - maybe only to me - the joy is in the
finished product.
Please believe me, I'm not trying to be all negative,
I'm really at a loss - can you please explain?
6. I grant you that 20-35 minutes under a dryer on an autumn
afternoon can be a great way to unwind and get a kind of
non-chemical relaxation - I encourage more guys to find out
how pleasant it can be. But I don't think you'll get there
unless we make it attractive, and frankly the kind of "fetish"
attitude kind of puts me off - it makes it harder, not easier
to sell the benefits.
7. If the men's issue of Passion (one of the big trade journals)
is an annual and the women's issue is quarterly, does that
tell you something? I'm not at all shocked about the volume
of responses - Unless you are threatened in some way with
discontinuance think about hanging in and maybe broadening
your focus a little - it may pay off.
Yours in support,
BobbyT
Sadness, yes. Anger? No, more like frustration.
Funny, back when I still had enough hair to set, I probably made a couple hundred salon visits. In at least 20% of those, I was told by the person doing my hair that I was not the first male to come in and request a roller set. And this was back in 1975-1985 or so.
I agree that there is a cultural "hangup" about any activity that crosses traditional gender lines. I'm more ticked off about the people who already HAVE the interest, applauded the concept and subsequent initiation of the site with great vigor, but then won't contribute.
I was never "nervous" or "furtive" about it except for the first couple of times. My attitude is that the salon is there to provide a service -- namely, to style my hair (or anyone else's) in the manner they desire. The reasons for a male to request a roller set -- whether fetish or special event or costume party or crossdressing -- should matter not one whit to a professional stylist. Hair is hair, and that person's hair represents an addition to your profit margin.
I agree, which is one reason why I am frustrated that most of my submissions have been from CDs. I was hoping for more balance.
I was hoping to get some before/during/after sequences -- show the hair in its natural state, show the set from a couple of angles, and then show the finished 'do.
I would be thrilled to have shown more "finished style" photos if only people would have submitted them. Few did.
Personally, I always found the entire process relaxing and refreshing -- the shampoo, the set, the dryer, the comb-out. Very sensual and very relaxing -- a feeling of being "pampered."
If you read the title page of the web site, you'll see that I was aiming for a wider "focus" -- I invited all who had roller material for ANY reason -- whether fetish, fun, or fashion -- to submit. The web is a very visual medium, and I was simply trying to fill a void for all those people who were clamoring for photos. Where did they go?
J.J.
JJ
Grow up
The vast majority of males dont wont to be associated with CD's.
If you look at mens hairstyle magazines, they do not feature CD's.
Are you on a fetish kick or are you interested in advancing
mens hairstyling techniques. Decide what you want and the
intended target audience will respond.
Just some basic marketing tips.
Will
JJ,
I understand you're a little disappointed but not all men who love to set their hair take pictures and do have a scanner.
And without that it's very difficult to send pics (if i had them).
Hope you understand.
Still like your site
I hope you find a way out
I am new to the internet but enjoy the web pages on hair styling. I am a straight male 47 who has a roller fetish. I having been settingmy hair since I was 20 years old. I love to see roller sets on Tv, movies, and of course in salons and anywhere else, magazines, newspapers etc.
I have a large collections of rollers. My favorite our Jumbo Magnetic rollers. I like the lady ellen red rollers the best. I have an understanding wife who goes along with this hobby of mine. She will on ocassion set my hair. She does like me to set her hair. I do not have a scanner, but will send a picture or two. I have only had my hair set in salon a few times,because i feel uncomortable about being in public even though i want too. I would like some advice about finding a stylist who I could go to on a regular bases. One of my fanstacies would be to go to a salon with my own rollers get set and then go home and leave set for a long time. I really enjoy the roller experience.
i
I have heard that rollerama is about to come back as www.rollermania.com and will be bigger and better than ever.
Stay tuned..........
J.J.
Hello again. And first of all thanks .......for so many things. The encouragement, the e-mail Rollerama etc.
Sorry for your disappointment. Only hope my girlfriend and I didn't contribute (by failing to contribute) to your disappointment.
ALL of this is so new to us both.
First, Computers etc. : We, and I'm sure others are new to the net and all of this. We don't have a scanner and if we did or had access to one would not know what to do or how to transmit an image.
Second:roller sets. As you ( and others who have read our posts know) we are just exploring this fascination she has with rolling and styling my hair and that it is ( at least now) a private thing for us. So we're a little uncomfortable with the public aspect of posting somthing thats intimate for us. I know that there is still a great degree of annonymity but I guess that because IT IS so new that the thought that someone could get a vicarious thrill out of looking at our private pictures is going to take a little more getting used to.It IS a sensupus experiance and I know now that I enjoy it as much or more than she does,, but that just increases the feeling of intamacy.And we have you and others to thank for encouraging us to be adventurous and experiment with updos, etc. ( Thanks Marci for the general rolling advice- it's a nightly thing now for us both and we really enjoy the time spent focusing on each other).
At the same time we do recognize the HUGE inconsistancy in enjoying Rollerama so much and hoping that there will be more and more to it.
We likewise appreciate so much the updo photos that you e-mailed to us and wish for more.And I see the inconsistency there to.
But we are on a trip of discovery here and we're sorry it may be taking a little too long for others to also enjoy the trip. But we do appreciate your advice , encouragement and the sharing of your experiances as one who has traveled this way before.
Hang in there. I'm sure there are more like us out here ts various stages of discovery who you are ( whether you know it or not) nurturing along.
Thanks again for all you do. Let us hear from you hear or by e-mail.
Bashful Boy
If you recall, I offered to scan any pics that you, or anyone else, would contribute.
I can easily use a paint program to add a black rectangle to cover the eyes of anything sent my way. I have seen many do this on other boards to conceal their identity.
J.J.:
Sorry you are having probs with contributions. I think I understand why.
I have set my wife's hair a number of times, and she has set mine as well. The process is fun. The results feel good. (We have not yet achieved a visual result that we would like to be seen with.) We do it in the privacy of our home. We are both successful professionals and parents and neither of us would like to be seen in curlers.
I think a lot of your contribution problem is that most straight people who do this would not like to be seen in curlers, let alone have pictures of them in curlers broadcast on the internet. To make matters worse, pictures don't necessarily stay where you put them. Anyone could copy your pictures and they could end up on an X-rated board or on a bulk junk emailing.
Sorry about your board.
I have to agree...I set my wife in curlers or a regular basis and we both "enjoy" our time together...however, my lady would not appreciate pics of her in rollers being posted on the net. This is unfortunate, but never the less a reality. I enjoy pics of sets and perms but unfortunately am not in a position to contribute.
So don't be so hard on some of the fans...some of us have ready access to reality and do not live out our fantasies throught photos etc. Unfortunately reality is all I have and cannot offer much fantasy enhancement.
Hairguy