new thread
Any of you guys who are students. Beware! Due to the tragic events in Blacksburg Va. today I'm sure that the usual cadre of megalo-maniacle control freaks are going to start calling to for hair cuts and school uniforms and clampdowns individualism.
I doubt that but what I know has happened is that Mayor Daley (Chicago) has called for common sense gun control and I unreservedly agree.
I always wonder if these shootings are a set up by anti gun or control freaks for excuses to clamp down on freedom. I can bet Rosie Odonnell will start calling for gun control like its the gun's fault that it happened.
I do believe in gun control though, I think anyone should have enough control of a gun to hit the target the first time.
I have many guns and I have NEVER, NEVER considered using my guns to harm anyone, or to damage anyone's property. My Grandfather use to take me hunting when I was very young and we would put food on the table and the family would gather round and we would all have a great time. Those are some of my fondest memories.
Now, I don't understand what the hell is going on with some of our young people. What are they thinking, or are they thinking? I believe that some of them have never had a positive role model to teach them responsibility. Perhaps I'm wrong. I just don't understand this kind of stuff.
Actually, I just bought a new Browning Cynergy, over and under 12 Ga. shotgun yesterday and it is a real beauty and well worth the price. I plan to use it for Turkey hunting in a few days. Now, why can't some of these kids do something like that instead of shooting up a school, or something?
Jeffrey.
I had a nice stainless Ruger Model 77 Mark II 308 caliber rifle with a semi nice Leuopold scope. I also had a swedish mauser and a 1911 45 auto I made myself. The Feds took all that from me when they got me. I seriously think there is an agenda here. I mean kids are indocterinated, they dont do anything but play game all day long, got no hobby other than maybe watch some basketball games or listen to rap (with lyrics about killing people by the way). I did not have guns to harm anyone either but incase someone wishes to harm me at least I got something. I used those guns at shooting ranges and stuff and wanted to go hunt with it, I think it should be good for kids to know how to shoot. I think someone wants to dumb down the population so that they are easier to control. When Romans or whatever took over a country first thing they did is kill anyone precieved to be smart like teachers and stuff, they did this to dumb down the people so they can be controlled.
Im not saying video games are bad (I play games myself) but it seems thats all kids these days do, not like they are gonna learn how to paint guitars or build stuff or whatever...
My dad and I were discussing this the other day and gun laws have to be the most ridiculous ones out there. Think about it logically. Do you think a criminal with bad intentions is going to care about a banning of guns? Seriously....he's obviously going to use it regardless.
TO BEAR ARMS (The 2nd Amendment), the nut jobs and criminals would be the only ones with guns. It would be total mayhem!
It's our right to be able to protect ourselves and our property.
I think they need to leave the constitution ALONE in regards to this issue...
I feel so sorry for you in the old US of A. It seems from this side of the Pacific that you are so consumed by fear, you all claim the right to guns. Mind you, we hold the record for deaths from a gun rampage, when Bryant went berserk at Port Arthur in Tasmania. No he wasn't a criminal or a terrorist, but a nut-case. It was terrible, so many innocent people and he had a whole armory of weapons.
So our Federal government brought in tight gun laws to restrict the availability of firearms. The law's not perfect, but a lot fewer ordinary people keep a gun nowadays. I feel much safer. IMHO states ought to have controls on who is allowed to purchase and use a gun. At least young adults won't be able to vent their anger so easily and destructively.
And the amendment to the US constitution was to provide for an available militia to fight invading enemies, not for US citizens to slaughter one another.
I'll stay in Oz, thanks.
The REAL reason is that the entire US Constitution reflects a political system built on distrust. We have three branches of government because none is trusted with too much power. And if that fails us, we have the fourth branch of government: our guns.
Distrust of the American government is why Americans insist on the right to bear arms. This goes back to when we fought our government which was the British then. This is part of the national American psyche, and until those advocating gun control realize this and deal with it, they will get nowhere with gun control.
Bill
Also because people realize that when you trust the government who is run by imperfect people, they tend to abuse the trust. Throughout history there are examples when you gave the government too much trust they started acting like bosses and really won't care about civil liberties.
I was debating with myself whether I should respond to this thread as I know how controversial this subject is.It was only a couple years ago when this subject came up here in regards to the Hurricane Katrina aftermath and a memeber brought up the subject of banning guns.I responded then so I will do so this time as well.For those who might remember that give and take I am pro gun and also an NRA memeber!Yes a longhaired NRA guy!LOL.Well even Ted Nugent is on the board of directors.Anyway I'm not trying to convert anyone but only to state my opinion.What happened in Virginia was a terrible thing but I feel if the campus had allowed law abiding persons who are trained in gun use to carry concealed that person could have been a hero to take out that maniac before it got to that ugly conclusion.Unfortunately the best people could do was hide and hope not to be seen by him to prevent being injured or worse.The police can't be everywhere all the time as was proven in New Orleans and also the LA riots some years before that. So at that point its up to the individual to save themselves and others they can help.Just for the record I do not hunt and shoot just for sport at paper targets.I go to the range at my gun club and just have fun using different guns and ammo and try to be as accurate as possible.I would hope to NEVER have to turn my gun on a human being as that is something I would not want unless it came down to self defense and ultimately staying alive.Just for your veiwing pleasure I'll post a pic of one of my better efforts at the range.This is at 100 yds.with a .308 M1A rifle.Thanks for reading my longwinded post.Mark
Hi Mark:
I wasn't a member of this forum when Katrina hit, but I soon went to work in the New Orleans area for a year and a half. It was strongly recommended to me by a Deputy Sheriff that I obtain and carry a firearm, which I soon did. With the roving gangs of armed thugs in the New Orleans area, the only safety one had while traveling in the area was your ability to defend yourself.
The only gun control that would have worked in this situation was if everyone was in control of a gun. I speak from first hand experience.
George
Thats rare these days... a police telling a civillian to have a gun. Usually cops hate it when a non cop has a gun.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I totally agree with the regulations we have regarding gun ownership. I jusy worry that they'll take away the rights of law abiding citizens to own them if they so chose. If someone breaks into my house to cause harm to me, I should be able to protect myself.
I'm all for having to apply for one and having it registered and all of that.
People with criminal records and known mental illness should not be allowed to own them. It would never stop them from getting one though...That's why I say that they'd be the only ones with them if they took away our right to own one legally. lol
Like in Taiwan guns are totally illegal unless you are law enforcement (which is extreamly incompetent) or military. Gangs have guns and we law abiding citizens cant do anything but let the incompetent police handle it...
I've been begging to die since elementary school, I don't have that kind of luck. I'm going to a college now, but it's a miracle I haven't snapped and hurt anybody (thankfully, I'm a very nonviolent person), I just keep hoping I won't wake up the next day since I'm so tired of having to be alive day after day after day after day, it's making me more physically and mentally ill all the time. They don't do uniforms in college, or in most places in Arizona for that matter, so I can have long hair and a trench coat all I want, although people ridicule me enough for it.
In the end, everybody is going to die. Every last one of you will die, someway and somehow, although I hope I'm first. This world is becoming more hellish by the day, and seeing as I've never wanted the burden of responsibility on my shoulders since day one, and being forced to keep myself alive for everybodies goddamn amusement, it's really killing me. People can't even try to kill themselves. You do it a few times in elementary school, and you end up going through therapy, and it only makes things worse.
They all expect me to be the greatest, smartest, strongest, and wealthiest person they know, but what is it all for? I hate this world, I hate people, I hate religion and all of societies ills, and my ability to love anything is being consumed by hate more and more. It used to be that half the time, I would be loving and happy, and the other half would be my rage and sorrow, but everything is getting to me and it's getting harder to enjoy life at all. I have no reason to live, I don't want a reason to live, and people are giving me terrible reasons to live, stocking shelves every forsaken day almost all the time just to keep my suffering prolonged, and I wish these psychopaths would take me with them for once. There is nothing in this world I want, especially if there's a price for it, it's beginning to be the only time I have to be happy is when I get to sleep, the moment the alarm goes off I cry because my joy goes away and I have to go through more hell once again. How do you people get through your miserable damned lives, smiling at people and helping them find things you don't have any interest in ever knowing about, knowing that you'll have to keep dealing with crap all the time for the rest of your lives?
I'm not good at anything, I never will be, and I'll probably always be doing miserable crap for the rest of my life, and I'm only getting worse. I'm going to grow old and less attractive, even less healthy, and breathing and body pain will only get worse. My mind is already turning to shit, my attention span is worthless, my reading is getting slower, my comprehension is pretty bad, and my headaches and dizzy spells are becoming stronger and longer lasting.
I have been so depressed all day, I haven't even had an hour of silence and solitude, and I'm ready to break something. I think I'm going to have an early bed tonight.
I used to feel a bit like that, maybe not as bad as you feel, but very bitter none the less. You have to try to take life with a grain of salt sometimes, don't fret over others comments or negativity, it will only wear you down man. When dealt lemons, make lemonade, if someone don't like you for who you are then tough shit. Don't carry the worlds problems on your shoulders man, there is NOTHING that you or I can do to "fix" society.
If you feel that you have depression then seek help, I did and have been on Zoloft for about 7 years. A chemical imbalance is nothing to ignore, with the right treatment your quality and outlook of life will be much better. Anti depressants don't replace the chemicals that you may lack, they help the brain produce more dopamine or serotonin and help retain the correct amount. They also help with anxiety and panic attacks.
Grant, your description on your outlook of life is a cry for help, I know that feeling and the only way to relieve your turmoil is to seek help no matter what the cost. Don't let people get under your skin, shrug them off and think positive thoughts. Negative comments from others are just cheap shots from the narrow minded, positive comments can be hard to come by
from others, but to expect them YOU must also be positive.
Positive thoughts and actions = a positive outlook in your life.
Don't sweat the small stuff, there is no need for negativity.
Chris
ah,I agree with you,I think Grant should seek professional help.I think I do need help myself,there are times where I feel there's no hope for me to be happy,I certainly know the feeling.
Yes, it is the worst feeling that I ever experienced. I was so bad that I tried having myself commited, That's when I received help. If you feel a cloud of dispair hanging over your head, don't shrug it off. You won't be able to especially if it runs in your family.
Thanks, Chris, for your very kind and helpful words to Grant.
Grant, there are very few people in the world I've ever gotten to know closely who will not confess to having entertained the thought of suicide, at some point in their lives, at least (myself included). My own mother took her life when I was 10, --- devastating me because I loved her, and leaving me with a dad that I hated, and a weird older brother that was always hard to understand.
Suicide (or even WISHING yourself death) only hurts those you love most. "Love alone is Life", --- not sure where that came from; but if you want more life, then the answer is to love more.
I am 53. I'm in debt, I can't always keep up with my bills, I had a heart attack 4 years ago (and have to take meds I don't really wish to take, but have to now), and I could go on & on about many more details (but prefer to keep private, instead), --- eventually convincing anyone in their right mind that I should have no reason to look forward to getting up in the morning. But, I have people who love me, and who I love in return. And that is enough to keep me going.
Seek help. Call a suicide hot-line. Do whatever it takes to put up a fight, and not give in to staying with only a negative outlook as the only thing you want to cling to. You have a choice. The only real one worth your effort is for you to love enough to help yourself now.
- Ken
Thank You Ken,
It's true that many of us have thought about or have tried suicide including myself, sometimes the feelings can be so overwhelming. My mother, brother and sister all have the same problems as I had, that is why this topic hits so close to home for me, it can be genetic.
Chris K
Suicide in your case would be a long term solution for a short term problem. You and the people in your community can surely come up with a more-matching fix for your problem than that!
Bill
Well, this is a fallen world. Things are not as they are meant to be. If there's a lesson to learn in all of the pangs and woes of life, it is probably that. That is why Jesus died. The Son of God had to come to the earth to be spit on, laughed at, and killed for us to be redeemed.
Woah! That is some pretty deep sh*t. Sometimes when i feel hopeless and feel like i have it BAD, I look back at all the people living in this world that are in worse conditions than i am. There are people in this world that are starving, Have no healthcare, Can't receive a proper education, Have no house etc.. You do NOT have it as bad as you think or perhaps i am too grateful and humble. You go to college, You seem healthy, You do not look like you are suffering from malnutrition etc.. I think life is too short to be angry and full of hatred all the time. Just try to hang in there and try to make the best out of everything, Even if everything seems inadequate. Im gonna quote a "Black Sabbath" lyric...The song is called "A National Acrobat"...Here is the peice i am refering to:
Just remember love is life and hate is living death
Treat your life for what it's worth and live for every breath
Looking back I've lived and learned but now I'm wondering
Here I wait and only guess what this next life will bring.
Well, Good luck my friend. I hope everything goes well.
Grant,
It sounds like you have depression. I have hasd it for about 34 years and have been taking antidepressants for about 22 years.
Try seeing a psych. (I cant spell the whole word.) While regular doctors can prescribe anti-depressants,
they may not be able to really track the medicine to make sure
it is doing it's job and if you think about it, you really do
want to live and are in fact a strong person, because you
are going through this and doing the best you can. I understand
about the dizziness. My dizzy attacks are due to something called Meniere's disease. It has been so bad that I couldn't
do anything but lay face down to stop the spinning.
Just remember, you aren't alone. Alot of people have depression and don't show it. So, dont give up. Start being good to yourself, see a doctor and take it one day at a time. Oh yeah, I got long hair too and have been pulled over by police for something they call a "Long Hair Stop". I have even been asked what I was rebelling against. I couldnt think of anything until recently. I haven't been asked that in a long time, but if I am, I will say that I am rebelling against people who ask me what I am rebelling against.
Bob
I've been lying in bed for a while, I can't fall asleep. The family is watching TV too loud, so I can't concentrate on anything at the moment. Making myself forget about problems takes time and effort, and I don't have as much of those things as I wish I did.
This world is a terrible place, and I don't think being put on meds again or seeing quacks again will fix that. People ignore all the problems of the world, and there has been no "progress". Everybody has to work, and when all the mindless labor has been replaced by robots, people will either be smart enough to be servicing those robots, or they'll be poor on the streets. People think all this junk is making the world better, but rest assured this world is just getting worse, and far too complicated for people like myself. Humans were meant to grow their own food and die before they reach triple digits, much less 30, but why do they prolong their lives so much? What joy comes from having brittle bones and eating applesauce and medicine? They keep themselves alive as workhorses in the clockwork that keeps order, and when their old, feeble, and useless, only then can they retire and attempt to enjoy life. The people who enjoy the fruits of this labor the most are those who do not contribute to it.
All people should be concerned about making this world a decent place, improving the world for all life, but instead it's all about the rich people, and making technology better so that we can make their lives easier. I know there are people worse off than me, far worse off than me, but there are people better off than me, far better off than me, and you too. Some work everyday until they collapse, while others are born into nobility. Most people wonder if they will eat today, but there are a few in this world who eat every single day, some to the point of gluttony!
Humans don't question their master. The world shouldn't belong to anybody, and pure chaos would be better than this "law". We don't wear shackles, but from birth we are all born to serve the rich, we are far from the utopia man yearns for. People are in actuality destroying the world that gave them life. Man doesn't need modern conveniences, they only complicate our lives that were meant to be short, simple, and pointless. The ozone layer can attest to that, as can the forests. Grass is being replaced by concrete, ambient lighting has eclipsed the stars, and our world, which is supposed to be improving, is dying and collapsing, and it is the fault of man's arrogance.
Perhaps I'm insane for thinking this way, but I'm still right. This world is a terrible place, and we're all being forced to make it worse, at the threat of being devoid of shelter and food. We are nowhere closer to a better world than we were 1,000 years ago, and we are quite possibly further. Humans are evil, wicked creatures by nature, but even if it can't be made perfect, surely things can be better than they are now. I see no point in bringing another life into this world if they too will be damned to live as a work slave for virtually their entire life, with the closest thing to peace being coming home and going to bed with the knowledge that you won't have to spend your time in this world in servitude until you wake up the next day, which you probably will.
There is no freedom, we are all property and numbers. It's a miracle we haven't been tagged, but I'm sure if I had a child, the government will start with that. They're already close enough as it is, biometrics and tracking chips are not far off. People don't like to think about it, but this is the grim reality. We aren't allowed to be the simple animals we're supposed to be, we're tethered by papers and numbers. Frankly, I'd rather be wandering a forest cold and naked looking for berries and hoping they aren't poisonous. I already have to struggle to have ramen and can food to eat, I still don't eat every day with such cheap food, and I'd almost definitely be dead by now if I lived that way, so why not? It'd certainly be less complicated, and I wouldn't serve anybody either.
A bit abstract and misanthropic but very interesting point of view on humanity and it's future nonetheless. Unfortunately, We are unwillingly brought to this world and nothing can change that. Therefore, We must accept this life that has been given to us and make the best out of it. Life is pain, misery, suffering, love, hate, fear, contentment, peace, conflict, death, joy, Tragedy etc... We must all experience these feelings and predicaments at some point of our lives. Some of us are fortunate and do not experience many of the negative things life has to offer, However, Some are unfortunate and experience more setbacks. Deal with it, It is called LIFE.... Hating yourself isn't going to get you anywhere. You must appreciate yourself and help yourself. No one is going to do it for you. Succeeding with the help of others(Quacks) IS possible and very likely but only if you commit yourself to it. You must have desire. I hope what I have said doesn't offend you because it is not my intention. I am not preaching either. I am just trying to help you out because it is clear that you need help. Take care and keep on keeping on!
wow... I must say I do agree with what you say, makes sence, after reading some evolution books by Dr. Richard Dawkins, I find myself thinking similar things at times, how much more simple our lives could be.
Anyway sorry to hear about your depression, hope you start feeling better.
Sounds like you need a hug. Come to Louisiana and I'll give you one. People underestimate the power of a hug and we need more of them.
If the drive is too far, find someone at school and ask them for a hug, i bet they will be glad to give you one.
peace
clayton
C'mon, man! We know all that. But we're not complaining. No-one is responsible for it than we! Let's call all this mess as "They". So, all that your weakness, complaining and depression is the best thing for Them, just after a complete obeying dumbness!
You see the world wrong, because you see only a half of the truth. In this time of changes, miracles appear all around the world, people works together to improve lives of others, and the others spread the rumors further. Sense of lives is revealed to them and it practically always is to solve and overcome their problems. To have problems, means to be alive, solving them, is living. This is your work and even a death won't help you, because you would encounter the same problems (maybe even worse) in your next life, but also having to learn basic hygienic habits one more time. Stop reading Hamlet, he has the same problem. And for the god's sake, keep away from psychologists. They've got to earn money and they will try to convince you that your problem is a lack of psychopharmacy in your organism. You seem to be on the border between a society and starting thinking on the personal level. That's good, but a guy in this point of life needs some info. Maybe you'd find something you like at
http://home.tiscali.cz/aquarian_astrology/en/intro_en.html
Laugh insanely if you want, spare your mind for the time you will need it.
Hi Grant, I agree with a good bit you've said, and this is what I think. You demonstrate a very strong will of mind that can be channeled to overcome whatever it is that you face. While overcoming it does not mean joining the ranks of those you detest, it does mean using your talent, your overwhelming capacity of reason to make your life yours without regards to the state of this world. And, wishing for death isn't going to get you anywhere but dead, and that's coming soon enough for everyone. The greatest triumph you could have would be to make yourself the best you can be and remember that whoever angers you controls you!
I'm not sure that human nature is inherently evil though. Desparate people do desparate things, and there are lots of desparate people in the world. The "evil" is more a function of biology and the innate, inborn trait a person has to stay alive. Calling that a product of evil buys into the dual, dichotomous thought system that made this world as it is over the last few thousand years. "Evil" as a force seems more a name for greed as a function of instinct.
that certainly isn't a healthy outlook on life you have there IMO.sure,there are things in this world that are messed up of course,but not as "dark" as you describe them.
you have to realize happiness comes from within,not from your surroundings.I agree also that meds aren't a cure-all for depression.like Chris said,nobody can help you unless you wanna help yourself and put forth an effort.
set goals and accomplish them,make a list of good things that happened to you throughout the day,make new hobbies,talk to your parents,talk to friends,meditate,get professional help,do whatever you have to do to get over this depression.good luck to you my friend.
-Jacob
Lord, Grant, you can't singlehandedly solve the problems of six billion people....
Some random thoughts:
The major problem with the world is overpopulation. Without it, there would be plenty of resources for everyone, and there would be no global warming problem. But we are not going to get people to give up reproducing. [grin] Similar to the peter principle that men rise to the level of their incompetence, we will not breed until we are all starving; we will just breed until most of us are wholly miserable. That is how NATURE balances things. Nature is not on a pleasure trip. Your mission is to throw nature the finger, and have the best time you can get away with.
In nature it is a dog eat dog world. Most creatures on this planet have to spend all day eating, and they are in constant fear of being eaten by somebody else. Mother nature is not kind. As humans we've tried to isolate ourselves from that reality but we haven't completely.
All men are not created equal. That is idealistic hogwash. You don't ask for your genetics, you don't ask for your parents, you don't ask for where you happen to be born. You just get what you get. And eventually if you are lucky you get old instead of getting dead.
You're a young male human in America. You really have lucked out! You could have been a tasty animal born on a dry African plain, in a herd fed on nightly by hungry lions.
Sure, things could have been better for almost all of us. Yet, if you look around, you see that many people are happy. How do they do it? The answer is "lowered expectations". Growing up, everyone yells at you to excel, excel, excel, but that can put you in the wrong mindset. If you won't let up until you have more money than Bill Gates, you are destined to live a very unhappy man. What people were yelling at you was mostly wrong. To be happy you have to be happy with what you have. Sure, some people have more, but things could have been a LOT worse.
If you have the luxury of any leisure time (and most HUMANS do), get out and do stuff. Quit worrying about the injustices of the world for just a little while, and think about entertaining Grant. Over time, those "little whiles" will grow to be "lots of the time", and then you will be happy. You can be happy in play, and you can also be happy in work, if you learn to be content with what you have. When all this reaches balance, you will be as rich as you can be.
The topic of this thread was a few dozen people got shot. That's tragic, but about six billion people did not get shot yesterday. 9/11 killed about 1/3 as many people as drunk drivers kill in America every year, but no one cries for all of those widows. Media can really distort stuff, and if you soak that in, you can be really miserable. LOTS of people fall for that media trip, witness 9/11, but Grant is not obligated to. Odds are very great that, whatever happens to Grant today, tomorrow, and next week, will not really matter to Grant that much. Grant will still go on eating, breathing, and hopefully laughing and having fun.
Good luck man.
Bill
What you say may be true, and if you believe that, then beneath all that may be your true purpose in life. There are many chariable causes that could use your energies to begin to right some of the wrongs that you speak to. It is possible! It's true that you can't erase centurys of evil, but you may be able to help just one person live a happer life. And when you see that happiness for even the simplest of improvment in that one life, your life will be happier.
Take the first step, make someone smile today.
Take care,
Bruce
Reading your words I can tell that you are a very bright individual. I have to agree with a lot that you said, it is true that the world can be a miserable place but we have the ability in ourselves to take what has been dealt us and make the best of it.
The deep thinking that you seem to be doing can lead to inner turmoil only if you let it, sometimes it's best not to analyze everything so deeply because you will always find faults.
Antidepressants are not a cure all for everyone, but some like myself have benefited from them although it took 3 different ones to finally start felling better. If 1 brand does not work well maybe another 1 could, you will only know if you try again and again.
Life is what you make it, not everyone in the world is deserving of being hated just because they happen to be of the human race. There are a lot of very smart guys on this board maybe it has something to do with hair? :) Anytime you need to vent or just talk, I think that you can find answers and some hope with the people on this board.
Talk to ya later,
Chris K
i actually saw a few of the do nothing cops and swat guys with shoulder length hair.
yeah, i noticed that too. I saw one SWAT guy who was a longhair and it surprised me.
I've been to Blacksburg and driven through the campus it's a beautiful place so I'm a little disturbed also. My attitude is We'll deal with this, we'll move forward, we'll work harder to be
better people. at least we'll try. We have to try.
Hopefully Tom you turn out wrong and there isn't a rash of draconian rules on campuses everywhere.
Kevin
I would be thrilled to be wrong!
I think that's a bit melodramatic.
John.B
the shooter was a shorthair.he was Asian.
Yes! Thank you I read that too. As I recall Timothy McVeigh was a buzz cut.
here's an excerpt from jane smiley on huffingtonpost.com:
But that's how it is with the right wing, isn't it? Grievance is something they do, no matter how much power they have. They are shocked, shocked, that they don't have all the power, shocked and victimized and angry. You could tell it in Bush's response to today's shooting. First he said he was shocked and saddened. Then he said everyone has the right to bear arms. He wouldn't want to let any of those NRA-types imagine for a second that any amount of senseless killing could possibly shake his commitment to a fully-armed populace.
Here's what I think about guns--guns have no other purpose than killing someone or something. All the other murder weapons Americans use, from automobiles to blunt objects, exist for another purpose and sometimes are used to kill. But guns are manufactured and bought to kill. They invite their owners to think about killing, to practice killing, and, eventually, to kill, if not other people, then animals. They are objects of temptation, and every so often, someone comes along who cannot resist the temptation--someone who would not have murdered, or murdered so many, if he did not have a gun, if he were reduced to a knife or a bludgeon or his own strength. I wish that the right wing would admit that, while people kill people and even an "automatic" weapon needs a shooter, people with guns kill more people than people without guns do.
Now lets look at some facts to offset this baseless propaganda:
Texas enacted a Right-to-Carry law in 1995/1996. Since then the population of Texas has increased almost 30%. The murder rate has dropped by almost half; burglaries, larcenies, and auto theft are down considerably, and robberies and forcible rapes are down since the law was passed.
For those law abiding citizens who meet the requirements, very few create problems. In 2001, 35,070 unlicensed Texans were convicted of major and/or gun related crimes. In the same period there were 180 convictions among Concealed Handgun License holders.
You will notice that people like Jane Smiley never refer to the facts from states that have enacted Right to Carry Laws. They can't; it blows them right out of the water. Why isn't she hammered in the press for using this tragedy to promote her own agenda which isn't supported by facts?
Gun control will achieve one purpose. It will keep the law abiding citizens from defending themselves against the crazed lunatics you describe in your post. Only the criminals will have guns.
Here is a link to the statistics I referred to, should anyone be interested in the truth: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm
And for your opinion as stated below:
For the majority of law abiding citizens nothing could be farther from the truth. And this is exactly the type of drivel that gun opponents use to push for controls, dramatic and without foundation. But it makes for good 10 second bites on TV.
Biog George
The main problem with shootings is young people. We don't let kids drive cars, rather than taking cars (which kill more people than guns) away from all people. Drivers' licenses become available as immaturity fades.
We need to work on a similar solution for guns. If guns were only available to people over age 21 with training, much of the present problem would cease. We can't expect 14-year-olds to act like mature adults, because they aren't.
That would not stop all shootings, any more than having a minimum age to drive stops all car accidents. But it sure helps!
Bill
FROM THE NATIONAL CENTER FOR POLICY ANALYSIS
DALLAS (May 26, 2000) - Marking the fifth anniversary of Texas' concealed carry law, a new report from the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) shows that Texans with concealed carry permits are far less likely to commit a serious crime than the average citizen.
"Many predicted that minor incidents would escalate into bloody shootouts if Texas passed a concealed-carry law," said H. Sterling Burnett, a senior policy analyst at the NCPA and the author of the report. "That prediction was dead wrong."
In 1995, Texas Gov. George W. Bush signed a law granting Texans the right to carry concealed firearms. This made Texas the 23 state to pass a concealed carry law since 1986.
According to the report, the slightly more than 200,000 Texans who have become licensed to carry a concealed firearm are much more law-abiding than the average person. Comparing arrest rates for example:
* Texans who exercise their right to carry firearms are 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for a violent offense.
* They are 14 times less likely to be arrested for a non-violent offense.
* They are 1.4 times less likely to be arrested for murder.
Moreover, of the six licensees who were arrested and tried for murder or non-negligent manslaughter, four were found not guilty because they had acted in self-defense.
The right to carry may also be affecting Texas' crime rate in a positive way. Texas had a serious crime rate in the early 1990s that was 38 percent higher than the national average.
* Since then, serious crime in Texas has dropped 50 percent faster than for the nation as a whole.
* Murder rates have dropped 52 percent, compared to 33 percent nationally.
* Rapes have fallen by 22 percent compared to 16 percent nationally.
This experience is consistent with the experience of other states with concealed carry laws. According to University of Chicago law professor John Lott, concealed handgun laws on average reduce murder by 8.5 percent, rape by 5 percent and severe assault by 7 percent.
"Far from recreating the Wild West, concealed carry laws create a safer society," said Burnett. "The law allows law-abiding citizens to protect themselves."
The National Center for Policy Analysis is a public policy research institute founded in 1983 and internationally known for its studies on public policy issues. The NCPA is headquartered in Dallas, Texas, with an office in Washington, D.C.
I don't think it's a good idea, the criminals will be the only ones with firearms. Law abiding citizens will have to break laws to keep firearms for protection. Also having America armed as we are is the best deterrent to being invaded from other countries.
It's just a few nut cases that are ruining our rights to bear arms for protection from the nut cases!
I didn't mean for this thread to be a debate on guns. I meant to discuss the possible implementation of school dress codes that may force young men with long hair into hair cuts or other unjust disciplinary actions.
It seems that gun control and negative thoughts about living just crept out of the corners. :) It happens....
Guns kill people the way that spoons made Rosie O'Donell fat. The best gun control involves hitting what you shoot at.
I was just watching Jay Leno and his guest, Tim Russert, said that Democrats are backing away from pushing national gun control laws because they realize it hurts them politically. It only makes sense that these laws don't work when you realize that the criminals aren't buying guns legally after a waiting period, but out of somebody's trunk, or stealing them from someone who DID buy it legally.
On the persecution area, the gunman was a SHORT haired, clean-cut looking guy. He was just a disturbed guy. His English professor begged him to get counseling after she read his creative writing assignments. Too bad he didn't follow her advice.