new thread
Monday my partner and I were driving up the city street we live on, when a fast-moving car zoomed by without stopping at the stop sign. We watched as he repeated the same behavior at each of the next 2 stop signs ahead of us, then noticed he got stuck behind a car stopped for a longer period when unable to pass (it's a narrow street), due to traffic from the opposite direction. Loud honking followed. By the time we caught up to him, I was shocked at what happened next...
Suddenly the guy blocks this woman's car from in front, at a diagonal so she can't escape; then he jumps out of his car, and WITH HIS BARE FIST, smashes the driver's window (with the terrified woman still inside her car). Fortunately, I was able to get the car licinse plate #; but UNfortunately, the aggressive driver that jumped out of his car to do this was a longhair, --- a white guy with a black ponytail down to about his shoulder-blades.
The woman was very shaken, but fortunately only had a few minor cuts, --- although the broken glass was EVERYWHERE (both inside and outside her car).
And don't believe for a second that dialing "911" results in a "fast response", --- I was transfered 3 times, as well as put on hold twice. It took I beleive a full 15 or more minutes for the police to finally show up (PLENTYof time for that guy to get away).
Sort-of ironic that my partner and I, both of us longhairs, were reporting to the police about an aggressive longhair that had victimized this woman.
I hope i NEVER see another road rage incident again. And, in spite of police sluggish response, I sure as hell hope they catch him!
- Ken
Hi Ken,
That is just plain scary, what is the world coming to these days, why are we all in such a HURRY! I have personally never encountered situations as bad as this one, although I have seen plenty of "lay on the horn" situations and less than flattering hand gestures, all for the sake of someone being in a hurry to get somewhere, and possibly save 2 or 3 minutes. It's particularly sad that this woman will probably have nightmares about this for the rest of her life, simply because some jerk thought he could get somewhere a few minutes earlier, endangering everyone's life in the process.
I'm sure glad you were quick enough to get the licence plate number. As for the slow 911 response, sad. And may the police catch him and lock him up for a while, then he will be REALLY late for wherever he wanted to be!
Take care,
David
If you think people are in a hurry in America, wait til you come to Taiwan! People are in such a hurry they drive with no regard to anyone's safety. Thats why Taiwan has such a high traffic death record...
Hello,
At least this lady may not link hair length to badness... because whoever called the cops was a longhair too... which means hair length has nothing to do with character.
They guy will be caught, with license plate, and cuts to his hand as well.
Expect nerves to short-circuit in Montreal, as a transit strike is expected on the 22nd of May.. expect gridlocks, and crowded bike paths as well :)
Have a nice day,
Georges
Yes, how true... If hair length ever really had anything to do with character, then solving character flaws would be as easy as either a haircut or growing it out, --- all the more reason to be a GOOD example of a decent long-haired human being!
Thanks, Georges, --- and hoping the weather up in Montreal today is as nice as it is here in California!
- Ken
SFPD won't do anything unless someone was killed or permanently crippled. This is because our ditzy district attorney won't apply resources to the case, so the police say, "Why bother?". CUAV, a citizen's anti-violence group, told me that once when I was involved in an assault case. Look at how little was done after the "Baker's Dozen" case, where one member of the Yale singing group had his jaw broken.
The district attorney won't seek the death penalty even against men who have killed cops. The police and DA are supposed to be working together to keep this town civil, but they are not on friendly terms, and this gives nut cases like the one you saw free rein.
In this town I have to constantly remind myself that I am not other people's mother. It is not my job to correct their childish behavior. Dealing with ungrown-up grownups is the police's job, but the live and let live politics in this town can leave it to often be like a rowdy kindergarten. Some though, would say that is part of its charm. If five thousand people show up someplace without a permit, many cities would send in the police to crack heads. Here they just say, well, if that many people want to do something, then maybe we should just let them do it!
A lot of confrontations come about simply because San Francisco is crowded. That, too, is part of its charm. There are many places in California completely devoid of people to where the anti-social may go if they don't like people. So why don't they go there! Hell if I know.
You can minimize your contact with aggressive types by reminding yourself that you are not their mother and just sloughing their behavior off. But if they are crazed enough, no matter what you do won't help, so you will encounter them sometimes. It sounds like you witnessed such an event.
Once in a rare while, one will get the opportunity to mediate such an event. This occurred one day for me when I was sitting on a bench by the parking lot at the beach. A cop and driver were arguing over whether the curb by the driver's car was painted red or not, and they were on the verge of fisticuffs over it. I called out, "Hey guys, I don't know either of you, but can I say something here! You are both arguing over something that is neither of you guys' fault. It is the fault of the guy who paints the curbs. He (the cop) comes by here all the time and he thinks of the area as a red zone, but blowing sand quickly takes off paint, and much of it is now gone. Why don't you settle this by you (the driver) parking over there (a place with no red paint) and you (the cop) not writing him a ticket. They both calmed down, agreed, and left on friendly terms.
Bill (San Francisco longhair for peace)
It's nice to hear of things like this happening every so often. Thanks, Bill!
--Rick
I agree, Rick! I can just imagine Bill saying that to those 2 guys, too!!
- Ken
Yes, and Bill was probably the calmest of all 3 of them!
--Rick
It's sad to see that people are giving us a bad name, or more of a bad name that longhairs already have.
Oh well, hopefully the lady will realize that hair length has very little do to with the issue
-Mihnea
Note: the following applies to California, other areas may have similar or different systems.
Did you by chance call 911 by cell phone? If you did, your call probably went to the Highway Patrol and had to be redispatched to local agencies...they are also absolutely overwhelmed by the volume.
When contacting emergency services by cellphone, the best thing to do is dial the local direct number to 911 (in SF, 553-8090) and you will avoid the possible bottleneck. The local direct number provides emergency dispatch with all the same information that dialing 911 does (either landline address or cell location information).
This number can be gotten from city websites, or contacting local emergency services personnel "excuse me, officer..."...
I will note that I have gotten SFPD response times rather faster than this for more or less serious incidents...fastest was a landline call with the situation still in progress.
I'm sure as a city bus driver you get lots of opportunities to practice calling SFPD. ;-) There has been a series of brouhahas going on for years over what bus drivers should do when they see problems on their bus. Every citizen has the obligation to call the police like Ken did, but most folks generally are, also like Ken, wise to not get physically involved. But as the driver, besides having to deal with that decision, you have to decide, do you open the doors or shut them, do you stay put or drive off? And how do you often know who is the instigator? You could inadvertently help the wrong side, not knowing that. All this goes on behind the driver while he is trying to watch for traffic and/or collect the fares, so he may know less about the incident than just about everybody else on the bus.
I'm not one to get involved unless I'm sure of who is right and that I can help, but I came very close to involvement once on the F-Line. It was outbound at the stop at Church and Market, and a homeless man was on the verge of attacking the driver, calling him the N-word and lots of other stuff. I was seated in that unique position right behind the driver, where with one swift lunge I could have sent him through the open doors and then sprawling on the pavement. The guy exited the streetcar on his own about two seconds before he was to get that treatment.
There are no standard rules one can follow when dealing with this stuff. I could not have called the cops when I saw that quarrel going on at the beach, for example. One of the problem guys was a cop.
Bill
Honestly, it is usually pretty clear who is the instigator/assailant. And also quite honestly, I am more interested in getting myself and my passengers away from the problem than trying to play cop. Lock possibly armed criminals with nothing to lose with me on the bus? Are you out of your mind? Besides, it isn't like you can't easily open the windows and jump out. Someone shoots the bus? I'm getting the (bad word here) out of there...if that means I run a red light (carefully) and pass up a stop or two, so be it! In general, if noone wants to pursue something officially, I'm not going to tie the bus up and inconvenience everybody...if you don't request something, or assent to my question, I'm perfectly capable of letting it go. "Would like me to do something about it?" is a question I ask in all seriousness...and very often the response is either "I'm sorry folks, this bus is out of service" or "I'm sorry folks, this bus is broken down[3]"
Yeah, I notice that he edited out the part about the bus being crush loaded. In a way I'm glad they focused on me...because honestly, I don't give a flying (bad word here) about the peanut gallery. If management sees fit to not even bother to deliver these complaints to me, much less apply any sort of discipline, why the hell should I care. In the case of the assault, I'm certain that Muni pulled the video for review and obviously determined that I did nothing wrong.
Quite honestly, most of my complaints are FTKA (Failure To Kiss Ass) complaints (AKA "I'm mad that the driver was doing his job")...I'll be the first to admit that I can be a rude son of a bitch (well, my mom so self-identifies...) in part to remind jerks that Muni drivers are not chew-toys, and that sometimes you'll get back more than you give.
While I don't advise people to do things like that, I have had people do those things on the bus, less so now that there is video running all the time...but with the old buses, at least one scumbag was "hustled" off the bus for what, in the rearview, looked a full sized can of whup-ass. Not that I was looking in the rearview for those polite young men (one skank ass bastard, and another guy I wouldn't be able to recognize if he was in front of me right now, but I'd give him a lifetime free ride anyway) who got off back there.
Muni actually has fairly detailed rules and procedures for dealing with these situations...which can be summarized as: protect yourself, protect the passengers, protect property...in that order. Of course, you find your own way...but I am proud that over the last 10 years (come Saturday), when I have been aware of a (developing) situation[4], I've never been assaulted[1], nor has one of my innocent[2] passengers been assaulted. Not that I got any recognition for keeping the group of angry young black men and the angry middle aged neo-nazis from killing each other from 5th to Haight, or indeed even inflicting more than superficial injuries when I separated them by driving off with the neo-nazis to their bar to get reinforcements (yeah, I slammed the door between the groups and took off at full boost).
[1] Ever. Not counting being struck by 102yearoldlady's cane when I refused to let her board...she had the habit of whacking children with her cane...I don't care if you ARE a 100 years old, you still don't get to beat up my passengers. I'm the only person allowed to abuse the passengers on this bus!
[2] And no non-innocent passenger has ever been significantly injured on the bus.
[3] In cases of incipient abuse or assaultive behavior, I am much or likely to break the bus down (apparently randomly) than single out a single person or group...preferably in front of a busy/safe location and let everyone alight until the problem gets off and goes away, then reboard and proceed in service. Once in a while I can get a SFPD officer's attention to eject a passenger...that is pretty sweet!
[4] If I am unaware, of course I can't control and diffuse the situation.
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I just finished watching the news article. Boy it makes me laugh at the typical self-centred urban dweller. I can see it now.
Passenger: "Driver, someone's picking people's pockets"
Driver: "One second ma'am"
- stops the bus full of hot people who don't care and are in a hurry
- turns on emergency lights to call the SWAT team and block traffic for 7 city blocks
- pulls out little book and licks his pencil
- Yells to everyone on bus - "Hang on everyone, I'll need everyone's name and address for the report - it will only take a couple of hours".
- "So ma'am can you describe them?"
Passenger: "Well, they were black"
Driver: "Yeeess?"
Passenger: "And they were wearing hats"
Driver: "I'll get the FBI right on that - black men wearing hats in SF - shouldn't be hard to find those guys"
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Man, I could go on for hours with this.
Thanks for a good laugh.
Actually from the sketchy description it was tall one with the short fat accomplice...one of the three regular pickpocket pairs in Chinatown...usually I recognize them and they me and they stay off the bus. We won't go into the whole "perfect" victim thing.
*shrug*
One thing I would point out, i'm not familiar with San Fransciso
mass transit but here on the east coast our transit system
covers 79 cities and towns. And they have a lot less than 79
cops on duty at a given time. If problems occur they
have to borrow cops from the local city/town.
I'm not sure about San Fransisco but here all the buses have
two way radios, also the driver has at his disposal a
flasher on the destination sign that indicates trouble, call the
police.
Also on our transit system all the starters have full
police powers.
Then call the state police, the transit police, or the police
suprevisor on duty.
There is one standard rule though, call the police. Don't get
involved, don't try to be a hero. The life you save may be
your own.
I just thank GOD that the man didn't hurt the woman. I wonder what was going through his mind.
Im not sure which part of California you reside in but it sounds very familiar to Miami Florida. Traffic down here is pure mayhem and the people........HOSTILE, VIOLENT, STRESSED, COLD, SAVAGE, RELENTLESS, VULGAR, BAD-MANNERED, PRIMITIVE ETC.......
This city is a metropolitan nightmare!
Sorry for the rant :-) I got carried away
YIKES!!! Chris!
That sounds really scary where you live! Fortunately, up here in Nova Scotia, things are MUCH quieter on the roads, and people are more polite. I have never actually witnessed in person a genuine road rage incident, you may hear the occasional horn being blown, but I can go days without hearing a horn blown at all. Of course, the entire province has a population that is a fraction of the population of Miami.
Drive safely,
David
Were you calling from a cell phone? You should be aware if
you call 911 from they have your address in many locations
come up on their screen instantly. But that isn't always
the case. If you're calling from a cell phone, calling from
a city/town border, your call may be routed to the wrong town.
Around here the response time on 911 is about three minutes.
Maybe you need to call the police using the full seven
digit numbwr? Or maybe you need to call *SP?
911 hasn't caught with the cell phone yet.
Oh and bear in mind when your'e driving around you're encountering jurisdictional issues.
If you're on xxxx highway the only police who can handle
issues there may be the state police. The police from
the city/town may not have the authority to act on that
highway.