new thread
Some of us got in a little late in the game at reading and replying to your post below about wanting plastic surgery. As user "Sunflower" said, the responses to your thread are VERY caring ones, --- an amazing thing, when you think about how controversisal the topic is. I hope you seriously consider what everybody took the time to say. You don't post here often, so I have no idea of when or whether you'll ever return.
Also, because of your youth, just as a "reality check", let me say a few additional comments that are based in having considerably more years on planet Earth than you currently have... Some day when you get to be nearer to what most call "mid-life" (40s & 50s), you'll have your first beginning twinges of ooking back nostagically at pictures of yourself when you were young (and BEAUTIFUL). I was never as good-looking as you are right now, --- even when at my "peak" (which for me happened when I was around 23). But, let me tell you, I wish I looked even half that good as I did back then! By surgically altering what Mother Nature so generously gave you, you will add a dimension to the pain of growing older (and uglier) that cannot be reversed. DON'T DO IT. If you are unhappy with your gender, then that's an entirely different thing. But, this is not what you stated in your initial post.
If you do indeed end up going through with this, then having the $$$ to do so in my opinion would be a curse. It is with my deepest respect that I say this: I hope you never come up with the money!!!! (Either that, or I hope no doctor will be willing to comply with your wishes.) When I think of all the suffering people in the world who live in war-torn and/or poverty-stricken countries, --- people who are missing limbs or have part of their face blown away or ravaged by disease --- I think to myself, how damn shallow our so-called "Western Society" can be, that an extremely handsome and perfectly healthy young man such as yourself can even entertain for a moment that he has to go "under the knife" and change all of his natural beauty in order to be "happy." This is NOT you speaking: this is the price we all pay for the Advertising world constantly parading in front of us THEIR image of "perfection" in human beauty.
- Ken (who lives in the same city that Bill lives in, and agrees 100% with Bill's reply to you about San Francisco being loaded with ugly people who tried to alter too much of what was already beautiful about them)
I agree with what you're saying but it seems he's more influenced by Japanese pop culture like anime/magna in terms of appearance rather than "Western society/advertising."
I once didn't like the way I looked. I find myself very attractive now. People used to make me depressed and make fun of the way I look, but it was because of the way I acted. A lot of how you look involves your attitude, believe it or not. I like to have a calm, cool, charismatic air about me, as I'm a deep individual who prefers the effeminate male appeal. If I acted tougher or more masculine and dressed and moved in particular ways, my expressions would alter and I'd appear more masculine. Even with long hair, people would have a hard time mistaking me for being female.
On the other hand, if I was to dress my entire body in female attire, shave and bleach my facial hair thoroughly, and walk and gesture in different ways, I could easily be mistaken for being female. You would be surprised just how many people mistook me for being female that day.
I've done many of these "social experiments" over the years, and they are often successful. You can make most people (those who don't pay to much attention to human detail, or know you personally and could see through your ruse) think you are something else based almost solely on your attire and mannerisms.
You look very youthful and possibly more androgynous than myself. There are plenty of females who look more masculine than either of us, so really it doesn't matter if you can't be the perfect trap. Jun Watarase and Bridget don't exist in real life, and most real life traps generally look like ugly whores in their 40's or 50's that you're somewhat but not entirely sure are probably women, albeit not attractive ones, not flat-chested 20 year old girls.
In the long run, you probably wouldn't be as satisfied with the results as you would've dreamed, and the effects will be permanent, and in the end you would be an old man that looks like a grandma.
"I was never as good-looking as you are right now, --- even when at my "peak" (which for me happened when I was around 23). But, let me tell you, I wish I looked even half that good as I did back then!"
Oh, I don't know Ken...I think you're damned good looking RIGHT NOW with your handsome face and beautiful beard and magnificent long hair... even more so than in the pictures you've shared with us previously of you in your callow days ... so I guess there's proof that some men, like fine wine, get better with age!
I think you're in your "peak" right now as the wind blows through your hair on a San Francisco hillside!
(Just some shameless flattery from Alabama!)
I know this is an open letter from you, Ken, to Otaku. But, I just had to second what Guymarch is saying here. I've never seen pictures of you in your youth, but if you were half as handsome as you are now I'd say you are definitely selling yourself short. You've got a kind heart, deep soul and, obviously, lots of wisdom to boot. We are all fortunate to have you here, Ken. You ROCK, sir!
That's an excellent post. I hope Otaku takes it seriously. As I said when I replied to your post, you look great and there's nothing ugly about you at all.
I agree =)
Just another opinion here, directed at Otaku:
This is something I would not normally say, because in many cases it would be taken as an insult and even now I feel uncomfortable saying it-
You already HAVE a somewhat androgynous look. Depending on how you dress and act, I think you'd have a pretty good shot at pulling off whatever look you are going for right now, as is.
I'm not automatically opposed to body modifying surgery. I believe it has helped some people look on the outside the way the feel on the inside, and can potentially make someone happier. However, I also believe that many people do it for the wrong reasons. I don't know what your motives are and if I did, it's not my place to judge, but the procedures you described are potentially dangerous and definitely expensive. If you make this decision, do not make it lightly. This should not be an idea you "just kinda like" or "think would be neat." Many people get tattoos for those reasons and later regret them. This kind of decision should be something you "absolutley must have." If that's the case, then go for it.
A couple other words...
Judging from your photo, you are still rather young. (17? 18?) If you do decide to have work done, it would be best to wait until your body is done growing first. Men can continue to grow until their mid-twenties (although I think 20ish is closer to the average.) Scraping off part of a bone that is still growing can have unpredicatable results. It's fairly likely you will grow to look a little more masculine as you age, and if you have work done now you may lose some of the effects within a few years due to natural body growth.
Also: Medical procedures done in other countries are usually cheaper, and there's usually a reason. Find out what that reason is. It might be the quality of the work, but in many cases its something else. If something goes wrong in the USA, there's a pretty good system in place for you to hold the surgeon responsible for his/her work. Is this the case in Thailand? I don't know, but I would do some damn exhaustive research to find out before gambling with my face.
To sum up: Make sure you fully understand everything involved and that you are ABSOLUTLEY sure before you make your decision.
If you really long to do this and beware of the consequences do it. However, this will totally make you inhuman (not saying there's something really wrong with that everyone has a different perception of life) so you should be careful.
Personally, I;d tell you not to do it, I mean you listed so many things you wanna change as if you dont like anything in your appearance or you look at you as an ob ject to be reconstructed oer and over. :/ It's just that you could turn out not the way you wanted to which would lead to more operations... It sounds scary
...you are not ugly, but I my opinion, handsome. If you were to ask a person that you thought was "perfect", what they thought of their looks, I'm sure they would find something they would change. There isn't one person on earth that is "perfect", and I doubt that even after surgery you'll find "perfection". That idea of perfection has to come from within.
Good luck and take care,
Bruce
Hi Ken I just wanted to add my two cents and say that was a fantastic response you gave to Otaku.You have a such a way with words and because of that I always respect your opinion.And thanks for your e mails to me the other week as I really appreciated all that you said to me.Anyway hopefully he does take you advice as you are so correct about all that you mentioned.I too think he might regret doing those procedures when he does get older like we both are now.Hopefully he is just blowing off some steam.Mark
I have to echo the replys below. You look lovely just the way you are now. If it truly is something you must do then best of luck to you, but I think Gregor has a point about waiting a while longer. Men really don't finish growing and maturing until their 20s, even if there's no real change in height. I mean, heck, I'm a woman and my body went through changes in college (mostly moving from twiggy teen to an actual female body).
I also remember a time when I wished to change my body to be more androgynous, to be rid of the parts of me that are feminine. Of course I never could've afforded surgury even if I'd been very serious about it, so my desires were a moot point. In any case though, I've changed my mind about the whole thing, and I'm happy I never was able to do anything permenant.
The other thing is that as Grant pointed out you can do a LOT to be androgynous just by altering the way you present yourself. Those can be a day-to-day choices.
And finally I think it's very telling that you believe you are ugly right now. If you can't see the beauty you have now, no amount of surgury will change that in the long run. Elizabeth spoke truly when she asked, "Who convinced you that you are ugly and why did you give them that power over you?" Maybe it was a person, maybe it was society, maybe it was a part of yourself (or a combination). See you own beauty and deny that voice the power to run your life. Then you will be in a position to make a true choice.
Sorry for the long-winded post,
Mouse