new thread
I appriciate you are trying to help but this is something i want and almost need.
I was kinda hopeing for support on my choice. I was also hopeing that there was somoene on here who has become a trap that i could talk to about what its like.
Being a long hair board i was hopeing that you guys would be a little bit more open minded ...no offence.
Also let me correct some of you and explain things logicly:
1) A couple of you said im "just influenced by western culture/standards" - this could'nt be any further from the truth. I'm influenced by Japanese culture (that's eastern) anime and manga etc.
2) many of you think im gonna end up like michael jackson - first of all i've NEVER heard anyone say THAT before (/sarcasm)....ok guys i say this all the time but i'll say it again...michael jackson is an extremely ISOLATED case. His results DO NOT reflect the typcial outcome of a rhinoplasty. It is very narrow-minded to always bring up michael jackson whenever plastic surgery is mentioned. Its crazy how ONE isolated case can turn most people off on something. Its like when millions of one product are sold and one IDIOT does something stupid with it and dies...then everyone goes crazy. My point is you cannot allow ONE isolated case affect how you think on a subject, do you follow this logic?
3) "you're good the way you are" im 20....not 8...i know pity when i hear it. Its kinda like those morbidly obese chicks who are clearly over 100lbs over weight yet have guys tell them they are not fat. I've been called ugly all my life...never gotten a gf...never KISSED a girl.....and its all my looks i know it
4) "you know this is permanant, right?" Yes, and GOOD!, i will never want to go back to the way i was.
I've been called ugly all my life...never gotten a gf...never KISSED a girl.....and its all my looks i know it
I wasn't gonna touch this thread but now I'm intrigued. Is having a girlfriend to kiss what you are hoping to achieve?
I think I missed something.
Stormy
Well, I guess posting that, you'd expect honest opinions. You're right though about the whole "Michael Jackson" thing. That's not what happens to people who get plastic surgeries.
-About this-
Well, I'm 19, never got a gf, never kissed a girl..and all that stuff...
I get down b/c of that ALL the time. All my life, I've blamed it on my "fat"....I've always thought I was extremely fat...but in reality, I'm only about 20 lbs. heavier than I should be. Still, I ALWAYS blame my non-existent relationships with girls on it.
It was until VERY recently, that I discovered what was the true reason of this. Its not b/c I'm overweight, its b/c I just have no idea how to approach women and/or keep up a conversation with one. I realized that I can lose weight and look better, but i'm NEVER getting a girl without learning how to talk to one.
The thing is: That may or may not be your case; but either way just know that.
Besides, a good chunk of my friends are "ugly" or "fat" by conventional standards, but they have girlfriends who love them.
Just my opinion. And my concrete opinion: LOVE YOURSELF!
-Gio
Okay.
First off, I don't find you as androgynous as some of the other posters claim, but I sure as hell don't find you ugly, either. It's wrong that people have called you ugly all your life (and have they really, or are you exaggerating?), but you need to acknowledge that what those people think about your appearance is irrelevant; it's what you think. Don't let idiots put words in your mouth.
To be blunt, I've seen "uglier" guys than you (not that you're ugly; it was difficult to phrase this) with beautiful girlfriends and/or wives. There are lots of shallow people who go purely for looks, yes, and even many deeper persons find it hard to get around how someone looks, even if their shell hides someone gorgeous. And, yes, beauty is subjective. But there are also general standards of, or, rather, trends in, beauty in various societies, and the aforementioned "ugly" guys sure don't fit into it. Yet, they have girls the "pretty boys" are drooling over.
How is that possible? Well, it's obviously not their looks. They have something else that attracts the girls. And I think this might be what you're missing. Maybe you've just been lucky; maybe you have a dark cloud hanging over you; but, I don't think prettifying yourself is going to suddenly make a bunch of girls like you. Some might, sure, but if you weren't getting the girls before, there might be something you're doing wrong, and they'll quickly pick up on that and leave you behind.
As for the forum being open-minded, well, you misinterpret that term. Open-mindedness implies acceptance; it doesn't imply agreement. In other words, most people here accept that you might do this, but they don't agree with it. If they were truly close-minded, they wouldn't have given you advice; they would have flamed you out of the forum with badly spelt homophobic insults.
Anyway. If you truly have your heart set on this, do it. But my goddess, don't do it solely for something as silly as getting girls. We all want love, but I don't think you're going about getting it the right way.
Peace, and good luck in your decision.
Go for it dudes! Do you want to do! Remember this.... You asked for opinions, but when the answers were not what you hoped for you became defensive. If you don't want to hear others opinions simply don't ask!
Since you have decided on getting these procedures, why not have the surgeon's throw in an addadicktoome also?.
girls who likes you based on your looks isn't worth your time of the day... because they will find better looking guys and dump you. Don't go to someone based on their looks, its something inside thats important.
By the way if you are going to go do it in thailand why dont you come to Taiwan first and meet me? Taiwan isnt too far from thailand.
Hey Otaku,
Well, I admit that I didn't respond to any earlier threads about this topic, but I did read them. Fair enough. If you know what you are doing, then that's fine.
I like Japanese culture, manga and anime. No problem there.
You know, when I was a boy, I wasn't so sure I was going to like my adult appearance. No one gets to pick their face. You get stuck with what your parents give you. So, when the testosterone kicked in during my teen years and my face began to change, I felt very self conscious about it. There was even one occasion when I overheard some less than complementary remarks about my appearance. It didn't do much for my self esteem, to say the least.
As to whether you are ugly or not, well, it is said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Post a good (large enough and not blurry) picture of what you look like now, and I will honestly tell you what I think.
I'm not picking on you. I always like to think that I can be friends with anybody, so I try to be open and honest and have a sense of humor, because life's too short to stay angry all the time.
Regards,
anotherDavid
It isn't pity. You are not unattractive. Others have said this, but it bears repeating. It isn't your looks. I've seen guys far worse than you (note: I'm *not* calling you unattractive) with very attractive girlfriends.I'd be willing to bet it is more a lack of confidence in your looks (this makes a huge difference) and a normal lack of knowledge on how to talk to women.
If one of your reasons is a lack of "action" (pardon the expression), remember that confidence in your looks and embracing who you are (flaws and all) is something women find attractive.
Others have said this, and it is really worth giving serious thought to. People who have cosmetic surgery to correct perceived flaws are almost never happy with themselves. No matter how much they have done, they always find some other physical feature to be unsatisfied with.
It isn't that everyone is being unsupportive. We're not trying to stop you from going through with it, we're just questioning the reasons behind wanting it.
Well, I'm not sure if you're directing this at me as well, or not entirely anyways, I shouldn't think so. I could tell just by your username that you are a fan of Japanese culture. I am a fan of it as well, and quite possibly moreso than anybody else here (but that's another matter entirely, I needn't start something).
It is a possibility that plastic surgery can go wrong, whether it be done badly, or the outcome just isn't the way you wanted it. Personally, I'm the open-minded sort that just about anybody could confide in. I don't care what you do or want, so long as it doesn't trouble me. I'm just giving advice that it may not be the best thing to do, and may not bring you happiness after all.
I don't pity you. If you looked bad, I'd tell you. You can look bad to yourself all you want, and to others as well, but quite frankly judging from your avatar picture I see nothing objectionable. I can find beauty in a lot of things, so maybe there is some flaw that I just can't see, or maybe it's one that only you see.
I'm rather vain, and I consider myself to be rather dashing and charismatic. Most people don't like me at all, and the ones that don't beat me up or pick on me usually want nothing to do with me, and nobody really compliments me, rather they put me down. I've never had a girlfriend, and never been kissed either.
In fact, I've never even happened to have a friend who was female, most girls would never even glance at me (which was probably good, considering how many I would stare at in class... -_-). It made me a bit sad to see my friend, who is mentally handicapped and over 250 lbs, have a girlfriend at least once (although that ended pretty quickly, seeing as how most girls don't like randomly violent types that talk about wanting to eat small children... o_O) while nobody even feigned interest in me.
Quite frankly, I'm not sure I care at this point, because I doubt there's too many people who would truly relate to me and love me. I have no interest in sex, just love and affection, which probably does a lot to make nobody want me even more. I think I will always be alone, but at least I make a good companion for myself, if only I could clone me. :(
Yes, the effects are permanent, we all know that. It's just, the effects may not be exactly what you have in mind, and may have side effects among other things. Do what you want with your body. If you look bad to yourself, get the surgery if you truly believe it will make you happy. If you look inside yourself and find that you only think your ugly because other people do (or say they do, anyway), perhaps you should contemplate the matter even further.
Technically, I haven't become a trap, per se. I've gone in the guise of a female and among other things discovered that I can pull it off better than I thought, get a few guys to whistle at me and offer me rides home, and that I could get a few things at the mall for a discount (>_>). I'd probably be the best one to talk to on this board anyway. I'm a very sympathetic and kind individual who is trying to see things from your point of view, and possibly have enough in common to attempt to do so. I am also 20 years old.
If you're anything like me, you have invested more than enough thought and research into what you're interested in, and I'm sure you know more about what you want and if it's feasible than anybody else here.
Your reasons for wanting cosmetic surgery are nothing but an issue of vanity. If surgery were something you needed to make you feel happy about yourself, you'd be able to find an insurance company willing to pay for it.
People like you disgust me. While you're sitting at your computer, pouting over the fact that you can't find a date who's shallow enough to appreciate your good looks, I'm sitting here at my computer, wishing both of my eyes worked. Unfortunately, I'm incapable of using both at the same time, and whichever one I do use, the other turns in. If I relax, I can see two separate images from two different directions. I could have costly surgery to correct their alignment, but I will never have binocular vision. My brain has had a lifetime of training to only interpret a single image from whichever eye I choose to see out of.
You think you've got it bad? Try asking women out on dates with one eye crossed, only to have them look over their shoulder to see who you're talking, you narcissistic little wanker.
You'll get none from me.
There's a difference between being open-minded and supportive. I couldn't care less what you do with your body (That's me being open-minded). But I'm not going to say you're doing the right thing by yourself, nor am I going to cheer you on (That's me being non-supportive).
Anime and Manga are both overrated, and I hate playing characters in video games whom I can't tell are either male or female.
Michael's always claimed he did what he did in an effort to treat a skin problem. What's your excuse? Girl problems? F'ing please...
My wife weighs 650 lbs, has been bed-ridden and homebound for the last 7 years, but is the only woman I've ever met whom I could have an intelligent conversation with and get something back. @#$% you.
Again, I say, @#$% you. You have no f'ing idea how good you've got it.
Hey Nyghtfall you say that both your eyes can see and that they are crossed too. I was born with crossed eyes (so bad the pupils disappeared upward and they were so out of joint with each other that by the time that I had my eyes aligned with surgery at about 4 years old, my vision was damaged. Now my eyes move together but my right eye was permanently blinded because apparently my brain couldn't handle the two different images from my eyes pointing in two different directions for so many years that my brain just shut off the signal from my right eye.
This made sense to me until I hear from you that somehow you have had your eyes pointing in different directions all your life and yet both eyes still can see. Is that right? Are both your eyes equally good, just not at the same time?
I have often wished there was a way to correct this but since its neurological I have heard it cannot be corrected. Anyway I was wondering how come your problem is so different from mine. Did you always have that problem or did it start after you born?
This is interesting, because I had crossed eyes too. However, I overcame it using eye exercises. The simplest one is staring at a point and moving that point gradually inwards and outwards, which works even just using your own thumb. The other thing my optician had me do was look through a stereoscope at 3D images and concentrate on bringing the two images into the same place to get the 3D effect.
Sadly, it sounds like both of you either had it worse than me and/or didn't get the right treatment in time. I pretty much overcame this mostly by the time I was a teenager, although if I'm tired my eyes will still go in different directions. Specifically, it is my right eye that I have to concentrate to get it to point the right way, and if I am not particularly looking at anything it wanders off by itself.
Being right handed and having this problem in my right eye means that my left eye is dominant, and that means I can never really shoot straight, simply because my dominant eye is not on the dominant side of my body. This is certainly true in the literal sense when I am firing a gun, but it also applies to ball sports of all kinds from pool to soccer, hence I was never picked to be on anyone's team when I was a kid. Lest anyone worry, I can shoot a weapon safely, I can just never be a marksman. At least I know it is not lack of talent.
Nyghtfall wrote:
"People like you disgust me.
...you narcissistic little wanker.
F'ing please...
@#$% you.
Again, I say, @#$% you."
There are much better, more mature ways of making your point other than calling someone names and using suggestive language. You made some good points, but they were lost when you chose to include the other words.
I don't think his points were lost.
While I may disagree with what this young man is trying to accomplish, I find a lot of fault with your response to him. To summarize, you are condemning him solely because you feel he is better off than you are. While this may be true, it is no justification to lash out at him.
There have been many opinions on here on various subjects (politics, religion, lifestyle, etc.) that I don't agree with. That does not give me the right to beat on these people; it does give me the right to converse with them, state my arguments, and either reach a mutual conclusion or agree to disagree. You are coming across as mad at the world for the problems you have.
Your eye issue and your wife's condition are hurdles that takes a strong person to handle; I compliment you on your musical achievements and how you have supported your wife. But once again, that is no justification to verbally punish those without eye or weight problems. If I were in an accident and lost the use of my left hand, would it be fair for me to condemn all those who play the guitar because I no longer can? Of course not. Yet that is the avenue you seem to have chosen here.
I am heterosexual, Christian, Republican, and in the process of having long hair. I do not believe in alternate lifestyles, believe in Christianity as the sole way to eternal life, believe in the basic fundamental Republican values, and believe I should have the choice on how to grow my hair. Yet I have friends (and a direct relative) with alternate lifestyles, some of my closest friends are non-Christian, I actually speak to Democrats (this is a tough one! :o)). I don't look down on or berate those who hold values different from mine. You will find in all the arguments I have made on here on various topics that I attack the position, not the person.
As I initially stated, I disagree totally with what this young man is attempting to do, as do you. Although I disagree with him, I do believe he has the right to do as he pleases as long as it is within the law and doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
I do respect the fact that he is willing to open up honestly to try to gain information, even though he probably knew the abuse he might receive.
Your response is about as close-minded as it can get.
And I would never berate him in public for the decisions he has made, as much as I may not agree with those decisions.
George
.
...obviously, you've got a looooooooong way to go. You are not a true musician in my book with a post like that...so full of anger and hatred. Your message could have been delivered in a more positive and mature fashion. Keep practicing, man. Find that inner peace.
Be well.
Dude,
I love your new avatar! It conveys such a strong sense of self.
Dude, you're doing the exact same thing as Otaku, feeling sorry for yourself, instead of just accepting life the way it is.
It's obviously made you quite bitter, and you take it out on him.
To Otaku: Do as you please, it's your face after all. It's nothing I would ever do, but it's your body, so...
Just be aware that it isn't without its risks.
To be blunt, the problem you have with your looks is not what is on the outside that you see, it is what is on the inside that you don't see. I'm sorry you think you're ugly. I hate to tell you this, but you're not. Someone, sometime, somewhere told you this lie that you were ugly, and you told yourself this same lie long enough that you came to believe it as truth. I would strongly recommend talking to a counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist at some point before you undergo surgery to change your cute face. But, at the end of it all, it will be up to you. If you didn't want comments that you didn't want to hear, you shouldn't have made the post to begin with. And, open-mindedness does not imply a bunch of lackeys who will fall in with whatever someone proposes no matter what it is - that is what closed-mindedness is.
I fully agree what Matt as stated in his reply to you Otaku !
Axel
I support your choice. Good luck with everything. :)
I don't claim that this old fart understands your need to become a "trap", but if it makes you happy, do it!
I think I'm pretty opened minded, but consider this: You've been told you are ugly all your life and you believe it to be true. You have closed your mind to any other opinions on the matter! Open your mind and don't discount those that want to pay you a compliment as pity givers!
Last piece of advice: obviously you're going to have the surgery...choose your surgeon well, don't choose soley on cost, and do only one procedure at a time. Whether you want to see it or not, infection is always a risk and you don't need multible sites infected.
Bruce
Otaku! The Professor Quenyan here! YOU KNOW THAT I PERSONALLY SUPPORTED YOU FROM THE BEGINNING! And, ain't it odd just how descriptive you've been from the outset and peops here jus' cannot, cannot, CANNOT seem to "get it"? Humans, man, I swear!
Yes, yes, and yes, Otaku, I "got it", I have "gotten it", and from the very beginning I "get it". Then again, Japanese culture, the indigenous religion OF Japan, Shintoism, has always attracted me, and one of anime's and manga's most beautiful series, "Kyuuketsuki Miyu", has enchanted ME for seventeen years now. "Spirited Away" comes a close second.
Just know we're concerned for a longhaired brother. Infections and an addiction to pain-killers (reeead: space-outerers; there ARE no such things as true killers of pain!) are the two biggest contraindications (reeead: horrible side effects) from repeat plastic surgeries.
Or, mahaps, just mayhaps, Otaku, it's your geographic location on the map, hmn? Densely populated metropolises tend to be much more liberal and accelerated socially, politically, and sexually than teensy tiny towns off the beaten track. Mull that observation over a little, nuff said.
Speaking of permanent modifications, go to:
http://MySpace.com/FatherVincent
. . . which is the home webpage of the well-respected and much-adored Vampyre Elder, Father Vincent Orion, whose Goth gatherings around Gotham have garnered him the vampiric attention he so well deserves. He, too, has had his appearance modified.
Well, best of luck, Otaku. You've got my email address off board. Contact me any ol' time that it so behooves you! Over and out.
Yours in longhaired AND androgynous camaraderie,
Quenyan (+:-)}
To be honest, if you're really that serious about this then power to you. It's your choice after all.
Just make sure to get a katana aswell ;)
Dude, "been called ugly all my life"... forgive the language but what the fuck is that all about? Seriously. I myself has been called ugly most of my life. I haven´t goten nice comments until recently, maybe half a year ago. Look at my picture, am I ugly? Hell no. Same thing goes for you. Dude I can honstely say that you are a good looking guy. Far from ugly.
And the girl thing, that has nothing to do with your appearamce. Look around you mate, open your eyes and see all the thousands of less attractive males with lots of girls. It has very little to do with appearance, it´s all about how you act and how you are as a person.
THAT´s what girls are attracted to. PERSONALITY, not good looks. Guys however, like you and me, we are attracted to appearance looks in the first hand. That´s how the world works, that´s how humans work.
I didn't post in your thread, but dang dude. You're SO not ugly. I pretty much am thinking the same thing as you lol, I hate my nose and I want rhinoplasty to (but for cosmetic and medical reasons too cause I can hardly breathe out of mine) and man I always get down about girls too cause of my nose, and it drag's my self esteem down too.
I've been called ugly a few times, but then some other girls think i'm hot as (mainly the metal head/emo girls find me hot lol, rnb girls don't usually) it's strange really but you're probably just looking for the wrong girls man in the wrong places. Go to metal/rock clubs and stuff, chicks there melt over guys with long hair. Also I thought i'd add one of my mates has the biggest ugliest nose I've ever seen (far worse than your's and mine) and man he's had some of the HOTTEST girlfriends i've ever seen in my whole life! and you know why? Cause he's got such a killer personality. If you can make a girl laugh all the time, you can't fail man.
If it makes you truly happey go get it done (I will to when I get the money, cause I know i'll never be happy with my looks till I get it done too) but remember personality is just as important too.
And you think that by making yourself look more feminine, you're gonna have better luck with girls? o_O
You are fucking beautifull compared to me... you give me your face i give you mine ok ?
Here is a true story for you to read, Otaku...
My ex's sister down in LA had plastic surgery done on both her nose and her chin. I thought she was GORGEOUS before the operation; but she was always unhappy over her big nose, as well as how her chin was shaped. Well, she went through with the operation about 10 years ago, and was very happy with the results afterward... And all her phots after that proved how nearly "model-perfect" she now looked. But, up-close and in-person, she looked just plain WEIRD now. In addition, one of the side-effects was that she frequently spilled food on her chin whenever eating, and was unable to feel that it was there. So, there she was at this nice restaurant, trying to hold a decent conversation, yet frequently asking her brother if there was any food that spilled on her face again.
If you REALLY want me to tell you that you look "ugly" (since you seem unconvinced that I genuinely think you look hands-down handsome as you are right now), I WILL....
but, that negative comment from me will come AFTER your operation. I have NO qualms about saying someone is ugly, when I sincerely feel they are ugly, --- and right now, Otaku, the only thing I find ugly about you is: what's inside your head is ugly, NOT your outward appearance.
I will say no more to you. You have already made up your mind, so don't bother us any further with this topic, --- it is YOUR mind that is closed to hearing our honest replies, not the other way around.
- Ken
This board sends if you hit enter...oh well.
You aren't ugly. There may be reasons for what you want to do, but that shouldn't be one of them.
IMHO, Taxi has a point. In high school the girls may like the pretty boys, but that changes. I think later on they go for guys who look more masculine.
I have a friend who has a huge honker of a nose and who has always had lots of women chasing him. I've never understood it, but I guarantee it's the truth. I'm much better looking than him, and never had such luck.
1)okay
2) About Michael Jackson, although I'm not really into the plastic surgery stuff, I to afree that he is one isolated case that cant be seen as an example, because even in the most simple
procedures people cand die or have bad results.
3)About this subject, Im a very honest and direct person, And I said before in the forum and I'll do it again because I think that you are good looking, Im not just saying that to disuade or confort you. And in the girls subject, you are terribly mistaken if you think that its only changing your looks that will get you a girl. Maybe that will help you having girls just for sex but if you are looking for agirl to like you and have a relationship based on feelings, how you look like doesnt mean a thing. Of course when a girl loves someone she is happy if he is the gorgeous man on earth, but no matter how ugly the person a woman loves is, for her he will always be the most beautiful and perfect man in the world, take my word, because I am a girl. Girls dont fall in love with bodies and faces, girls fall in love with persons, individuals, and those who think that loving someone is finding him very atractive they are wrong. Abou you been called ugly all your life, I passed by that to, because Im not so beautiful and Im fat and I have big teeth, but a couple of years ago, I stopped listeing to that because what really matters is what I am, and how I feel with myself, nobody should change just because of what other people say or think. I never had a boyfriend to, and I never kissed a boy but I'm not worried about it, because when my time comes it will come naturally having nothing to do with how I look. There are more important things then relationships and kisses, like your friends and family, who will always love you no matter how you look.
That was just my opinion, I couldnt help telling you what I think...
In the surgery subject, like I said before it should be a your only decision and if you decide to make it I wish you the best of lucks.
take care
Sorry about some tiping mistakes in my answer but I really suck writing on the computer
I wish I looked as good when I was your age as you do.
i had formerly decided not to reply to this post simply because it was so banal. but now i'm going to respond for exactly that reason.
personally, i refuse to support cometic surgery for purely superficial reasons. this world focuses too much on the physical. get over it. do you really think that looking a certain way will change your life for the better? speaking as 'the pretty girl,' it won't. frankly, i think my life would be easier if i were ugly. (and i'm not being conceited. i think i'm rather average looking.)
if you want to know what it's like to be a 'trap,' go talk to a transexual. the ones i know (and i know quite a few) have some of the hardest lives i've ever seen. they don't think it 'fun.' getting thier asses kicked for not really beaing a woman isn't thier idea of a good time.
long hair doesn't make people open minded. being open minded makes people open minded.
so you want to look like a cartoon character. congratulations. when i was little, i wanted to look like rainbow brite. and then i grew up.
one isolated case? let's also mention cher. joan rivers. madonna. jessica and ashley simpson. need more? i'll email you a list if you want it. ALL cosmetic surgery deteriorates over time. i used to be good friends with a cosmetic surgeon. he didn't have many good things to say.
the first time i saw your picture, i thought you were very attractive. the kind of face that, if you were closer to my age, i would be drawn to across a bar and made a move. but the more i've read your posts, the less attractive you have become. so i doubt it's your looks preventing you from meeting girls, and would bet it's the whiney self-pitying attitude that is turning them away. i didn't get my first kiss till a few weeks before my 19th birthday. not because people didn't find me attractive, but because i was severly socially awkward.
any respectable cosmetic surgeon will require a clean phychological evaluation before doing the amount of work that you are wanting. why? because it's permanant. in your case, i think all you need is some serious sit down time with a professional shrink.
ALL cosmetic surgery deteriorates over time. i used to be good friends with a cosmetic surgeon. he didn't have many good things to say.
I'm not so sure the surgery deteriorates, more the face does and the surgery just stays in the same place causing it to stand out as being 'odd'.
Don't despise pity, for it is the gift of a gentle heart. (LoTR paraphrase)
But I do not pity you. I am in a similar boat, but I dont think my looks have anything to do with it. I'm just a socially awkward person and even more so when it comes to girls, but I'm breaking out of that!
What you need (and I as well) is just to man up. Stop thinking so much about yourself. Your concern with your looks is a manifestation of your self-centered perspective. I suggest hiking, reading the new testament, maybe lifting weights, and trying to concern yourself more with the people you encounter in your life than with yourself.
Plastic surgeons and shrinks can't help you - at least not really.
When I look at your avatar picture, I am struck by how attractive your hair and face look. To my eye, as you are now, you are one of the most attractive people here who has posted a picture. I'm truly astonished that anyone would seriously say you are ugly, or that you would seriously believe them.
As far as wanting a more androgynous look, to me you look borderline androgynous already. If you want a more androgynous look for whatever reason, my suggestion would be to see what they could do for you at a beauty salon. Things like having your eyebrows shaped and skilled use of makeup. (Your hair looks fine already.) Guys do things like this much more than in the past, and you might be surprised at the results. Given your present appearance, plastic surgery to get a more androgynous look seems far too extreme.
Given what you've written about your interest in girls, I really don't understand about becoming a trap. Wikipedia says a trap in this context is "a man who is intending to look like an attractive woman." That would be going beyond an androgynous look to a complete feminine look for your face, clothes, hair etc. Is that what you mean? Plastic surgery may be useful to achieve a really feminine look, but it would hardly seem to be a way to attract straight women, or what a guy would do simply to be less ugly. In any case, I would advise against that because it would be based on deception (about not being a woman), and almost certainly hurt you in the end more than it could ever help you.
O-
I'd guess I have to write you openly on the board although I have found that there are too many negative folks out there (not talking necessarily about this board) that would only flame me as they have mercilessly flamed you. I'm as sick of it as you are.
I'm much older than you and throughout my life I have wanted to do things that others around me have denied me, denigrated and ridiculed me for wanting, I've lost jobs when I have grown my hair long, I've been looked at strangely when I have had my ears pierced and I have even angered folks for getting a tattoo. Actually the "friends" and family who have freely given me all their negative thoughts have stopped me from doing things that would have allowed me to express myself and to be the person I have always wanted to be. I regret after all these years that I allowed them to stop me. I would be a very different and much happier guy if I had lived my life as I have always wanted.
You have a dream, you want to live as you feel most comfortable - I want to tell you to go and do it!!!! You will have no other chance to be the person you want to be and you are young enough to enjoy the changes you make so go for it!!!!
If you listen to the neysayers now you will only get more shit in the future and you will never achieve your dreams.
If I can only give you one piece of advice it is to go at your own pace - don't get rushed into quick dicisions that satisfy only immediate needs - I got a tattoo once because I wanted it to stick it in someone's face - I had to have it removed later - it was ugly and poorly executed - I have had several more done since that I spent time considering and making sure my decision and the design was really meaningful to me. Do the same and you will enjoy rather than regret your decision.
Stay well - I hope you all the happiness you can find and more
Charlie
Well Otaku, I read your post and think you have the right to do whatever you want with your face. After all, it is your face. But be sure that's what you really want. I can almost guarantee that as you get older and mature, you will have regreets that you did something so drastic and permanent as plastic surgery when you were younger.
Also, I don't quite understand why you use the name 'Otaku'. In the Japanese language, Otaku basically means 'nerd' or 'loser'. I have lived here in Japan for several years now, and I can tell you that Otakus here are looked down on pretty badly in this society. It's nothing to be proud of in Japanese society. Otakus here are generally nerdy, anti-social, unemployed society outcasts. Not all, but many. And most Otakus here can't get girlfriends. The reason you can't get a girlfriend is perhaps because you are a proud 'Otaku'. It's not because of your looks. And if you think you know about Japan, the people and it's culture because you watch Anime and read Manga, you are totally wrong. You have no clue unless you live here. Trust me on this. That is why so many recently college graduated Otaku nerds come here from western countries to teach English in Eikaiwas (English conversation schools). It's funny, actually. Before they come to Japan, they think they love Japan because they are obsessed with Manga and Anime. But I have met so many that absolutely hate it here and can't wait to leave after their one year contract is up. Some even break their contract and leave Japan early. Japan wasn't the Anime world they imagined it would be. My guess too is that you are obsessed with Asian women. Well, I have news for you. Asian women are not some special, magical creatures. Women are women.. the same all over the world. Do whatever you want with your face and your life. But from what I have seen in your posts, you are ignorant about Japan and women. Very ignorant. Good luck.
Hi Sakura
So totally true! I spent two months in Odawara sixteen years ago. It was work related, but not a teaching assignment like you described. I wish I could have stayed longer. It was a great experience. Entertainment is fine for what it is, but it can never substitute for real life experience.
anotherDavid
Well, i dunno what to really say about all of this, but one thing i can say is that when i was younger, (i'm 19 now) i never felt attractive, i had glasses, very shy, and my clothing wasn't that cool as well. But nowaday my self confidence is great, especially when it comes to my looks and stuff, i think that if i go out to clubs and such i would have no problem gettin a girlfriend if i would really want to, of course there are probably many people that don't like me or my style but those people i don't give a fuck about, i could care less actually.
So if you really want this surgery done, and if you really think that you would be happier afterwards, then do it!
Simon
Girls that come to you because of your looks are not the girls you want! C'mon, everyone gets old, fat, wrinkled, and smelly as time goes on, and unless you're completely stacked with cash, there's no way to stop it! If you're going after girls that dig your looks, you're going to get burned later on! So, unless you have some "maintenance money", you're gonna "devolve". As Kansas said, "All we are is dust in the wind . . ."