new thread
Occasionally we get pictures here of braided hairstyles or pigtails and halftails, etc. Styles different from the typical loose hair or ponytail picture. They are always amazing to me that a) somebody can do a braid which certainly seems like it would be hard and b) a guy has hair long enough to do that!
When I was first considering growing out my hair, I had tentatively mentioned it to the stylist who always cut my hair at that point. Even telling her felt odd because at that point it was just an odd idea that had been rolling around in my empty skull for a while. It felt odd because the idea that a middle aged man would just start growing his hair out at a time when it wasn't even common here among male teenagers at the mall was just that, odd. I don't believe that I considered long hair feminine (even in my deep dark subconscious) but it certainly was associated with youth. Who was I to try to claim that back (especially given that I had obvious grey hair!)
Well I did mention that I was considering growing my hair and rather than be shocked with horror (!) she said she thought it might look good on me and mentioned that it could be made into a ponytail. She grabbed the little bit of hair I had accumulated and pulled it back so I could see what it would be like. Now at the first mention of a ponytail I balked and said I really didn't think that was for me. I didn't say I thought it was for girls only, though I did think it at the time.
Whenever I had thought of having long hair in the past on various occasions or saw men with long hair it was usually loose so that is what I pictured as the goal I would work towards. The ponytail idea just stopped me short, I don't want to look like a girl! That's not what this is about! Well as I got more into the long hair thing, researching long hair on men on the net, I found this site. I did see pictures of men with ponytails and also I started noticing guys where I live who did have long hair, which I was just starting to notice, and they too had ponytails.
So men with ponytails had become "normalized" for me, both from the number of guys here who had them and the guys I saw in real life as well. Ponytails are convenient in some situations like windy days or certain kinds of cleaning up tasks to keep hair away. I still don't prefer them but I will go out with one. I was certainly self conscious of doing so at first because it was way off of my typical self at that point and not in my "comfort zone". I know that this is typical for some people from remarks I have read here.
Now I don't see as many guys with braids or half tails here on MLHH and I don't see ANY at all with halftails or braids where I live. With hairstyles like these I still feel the way I used to feel about ponytails. I know it isn't rational, hair styles like hair length should be gender neutral. But despite overcoming conformity enough to grow out my hair in the first place, and then to adopt a style that I perceived as feminine at first (the tail) I still have this old stereotype association with elaborate hairstyles as only belonging to women.
Now I personally don't want to wear the more elaborate styles so I am fortunate that there is no dichotomy between what I personally want to do and what society expects of me. But if society did condone this style on men or encouraged it, perhaps I would want it then? It is difficult to say how much of this lack of desire comes from personal taste and how much from societal pressure. Too late to tell now. It is just interesting to me that even here among such free thinkers as yourselves the old ways and habits of thinking aren't entirely eliminated. If somebody with short hair on the street tells me that long hair is for women or gays (this hasn't happened to me yet though) or when I read about someone having this happen to them I have mixed reactions. Part of me says that this is incorrect that everybody can have long hair, hair isn't a gender specific feature and to dismiss the comment as ignorance or bigotry. The other part of me understands completely where they are coming from. Because I still feel the same way about some hairstyles in my mind (at least with regard to having those styles myself) but without the criticism of others accompanying it.
I sometimes feel like a hypocrite here with these ideas but I suppose even here we are all very different with regards to what we would or wouldn't do with our hair. For me the truth is I don't do much with it, some people say have "fun" with your hair and you can do so much more with it if it's long. But I really don't want to have fun with it in that sense. I prefer it just loose when I can get away with it, very simple. I cannot fathom playing with styles like that, hair simply just "was" when it was short and I guess even now it is still just "hair" now too. I sometimes wonder about my lack of this passion for hair when I see the way I feel about hair compared to how others here are much more enthusiastic about it.
I suppose I am just wondering about how others feel about these kinds of things, am I unique here? Just curious :)
Actually, of all the different styles, I think the half-tail is the most male looking. Partly because I´ve seen very few females wearing it, but also for the more Viking/Fantasy feel to it. :)
(Sorry if this has nothing to do what you wrote. I just skimmed through it :P)
Actually that is exactly what I was writing about Erik, you have great skimming abilities :)
I have never seen one guy in person wear this style, but you are certainly right about this style portrayed in the movies.
I think that in many ways I feel the same as you do. Hair is just hair. Beyond simply having more of it, I'm not interested in "styles." Oh, I do use the ponytail, and I have considered doing a simple braid down the back when it is longer, but I just don't have the enthusiasm about how it supposedly should look that many others possess and express. I think that if I did obsess about it, I might be tempted to cut it to achieve a "look." Since I don't care what anyone thinks about my hair (unless they actually say they like it ;) I don't worry about trends or fads of today's youth. I'm 39. I'm past conformity.
David
It's nice to know I am not the only one who is a casual longhair lol. I do still have the overall gender conformity thing going, even at 44. Oh well!
A nice read, Chris. I enjoyed your psychoanalysis.
I suppose, in many ways, I'm the opposite of you. I find physical beauty pretty much exclusively in females, and I therefore try to apply that to myself as well, to make myself look like both a male and a female simultaneously. Though I know a number of women with short hair that make me drool, I tend to see them more as "cute" than "stunning" or "beautiful," but perhaps this is a societal trend that's rubbed off on me as well. In the end, my androgyny is just a look, and I've made no surgical alterations to myself to accomplish it. When you consider how minute our influence on the rest of the world likely is, it's downright befuddling that random people can care so much about what other random people look like. Even more sadly, many of them don't actually care, but vent angry opinions to fit in with the people around them, just adding to the hurt they're spewing.
As to whether a hairstyle is male or female, you're right in assuming all hairstyles to naturally be gender neutral. Socially, they're not, but society is a human creation, and humans are very fallible creatures. Hair can grow to the same length on both sexes; therefore, all hairstyles are at least possible for both sexes, bearing in mind hairtype, color, etc. So, through logic, you can see that hair is really not that big of a deal - it can be styled in any way, and, from a logical standpoint, its owner can be a male, a female, a third gender, intersexed, an asexual alien from Andromeda, and so forth.
However, society has a way of making hard-to-break associations with images. Erik Anders pointed out the presence of half-tails on Vikings, for example. We see Vikings as warriors, and since the stereotypical male wants to be seen as tough (i.e., a warrior), he'll point to the Vikings as some kind of rationale for his half-tail hairstyle. But this is an absurd reason for having a half-tail, unless you want to resemble a Viking, in which case it's not too bad a reason at all. Having a half-tail does not make you a warrior, nor does it make you an elf, or anything else associated with it. Had Vikings not worn such a hairstyle, would you consequently not wear it? In other words, if something had not just happened to occur in history, would it prevent you from doing it nowadays? The same thing happens with men wearing kilts - they continually dig up pictures of kilted warriors as "evidence" that wearing a kilt will somehow make them a warrior. However, their fragile male ego is still grappling with the nonissue of wearing a skirt, so they often wear huge combat boots and carry bottles of beer and the like to somehow enhance the masculinity of their image, though neither clothes nor drinks really enhance one's masculinity (or femininity).
Long story short - you're not the only one who's felt like this. I sure have, and I still do, from time to time. I'm very shy, so it's not always easy for me to just do things in public, but whenever I do, I realize that it was really nothing at all. Whether I wear my hair in a ponytail, a topknot, a Manchu braid, or pink-dyed dreadlocks, I haven't lost my masculinity one bit, for my facial hair still pops up every day, and, well, the other male things, lol. Masculinity is defined by our sex organs, I'd say, and femininity likewise. Any other definition refers to trends, to social constructs. Yes, men tend to be more aggressive than women, etc, but not all men are, so the validity of such definitions is quickly broken down.
Yikes, I type a lot. LOL.
Peace
Thanks man, I don't usually post new threads here except for updates but after seeing DBD's post it reminded me of something I occasionally thought of but not always in words before this.
I also prefer long hair on women, it just seems more natural. I know a cultural bias when I see one, but so what lol. I indulge this one. My longtime partner cut her hair after having it midback length for most of her life. She got a pixie cut, such short hair. While she enjoyed it then and I know she got lots of compliments on it from others, in all honesty I really did not like it at all. I told her so but it was her hair. Actually this big change she made (and that she really enjoyed) was one more motivation for me to change my hair from short to long. :)
A lot of editing (sniping) below, with a few added comments.
(snip)
Well, the owner of this head of hair is intersexed, though she identifies primarily as female. Intersexuality certainly challenges what is male and female, gonads notwithstanding.
(snip
I gained my intersexuality because of the facial hair, and other "male" things, that popped up starting in puberty. But those secondary sex characteristics certainly don't take away from my femininity. I could stop the anti-androgens, become a bearded-woman, and join the circus, but I digress. ;-)
And that is exactly what it comes down to, the sex organs. Even though I am intersexed, what makes ME female, is that I came equipped with the requisite gonads that categorize me as such. Now, if only something could be done with the malfunctioning adrenal glands that INSIST on making testosterone, instead of the usual cortisol... :-/
Exactly. There are a lot of women capable of having moustaches and beards, but for the brave few willing to toss the razors, depilitories, wax's, laser treatments, etc., you don't see them. A number of intersexed women chose to live as men centuries ago. It was easier for them to blend in with societal standards, by passing as male, rather than female, though they had female gonads.
(snip)
Carol
This is fascinating information, as is your whole post Carol. Apart from the facial hair I am wondering if the infertile intersexed women faced less opprobrium as a childless male than a woman who wasn't a mother or married for that matter. Being thought of as male meant freedom that would not exist for a woman depending on the time and place.
The beard that made them pass so well as an instant indicator of supposed masculinity makes me realize long hair hits some people the same way as a marker of femininity. No wonder long haired men challenge their worldview or make them uneasy. Don't know why there is a need to sort people merely seen in passing but some people really think they need to know definitively one way or the other.
Elizabeth
That is a good question. Rarely can an intersexed person be able to procreate, modern fertility science has helped a great deal. Considering the social stigmas that both unmarried and childless women faced years ago, embracing ones intersexuality by passing off as a male meant social acceptance, if not autonomy.
And some people may feel uncomfortable, or uneasy, about someone who doesn't fit their notion of masculinity or femininity. Like gays, transgenders and intersexuals. A self-confident longhair, gay or straight, exudes masculinity IMHO.
Carol
I suspect this is deeply ingrained in innate human neuropsychology, as is the human brain's programming to use faces to tell people apart. There are other ways our brains classify people besides just by their faces, and sexing people is part of implementing one of those ways. This need is limited to people; no one is frustrated by their inability to instantly sex a dog, a horse, or chickens.
I was born unable to recognize faces, so I fall back on alternative ways to sort people out, and that makes this situation more clearly apparent to me than to most people. It is clear to me that the brain is highly developed to sex people, and that in my case at least, it is quite clear that I process images of men and women in different places in my brain. I would not be surprised that this does not happen with most people.
If the brain cannot route an image of someone into one of its HUMAN categories, it will be frustrated and it will perceive the image as an "it". This frustration is pervasive enough that almost all societies have implemented social pressures to ease the effort of sexing people rather than thwarting it. These pressures themselves are pervasive. It is very difficult to use language, appear in clothing, or even tell people your name, without sending a sex signal.
The human brain is very good at sexing people. I live in the Castro District, where a lot of people who want to thwart that skill are running around, and I see very few who succeed. Most people are clearly one sex or the other, despite what they wear, how they act, etc.
Much of so-called "anti-gay" behavior is really oriented towards those who do not appear clearly male or female. My partner and I travel all over the place and never get harassed, but we look like men. If people sense we are family members, they think we are brothers! We get asked if we are brothers at least once a month. This happens even here in San Francisco. A man asked me that yesterday.
Indeed there are people who want to tread near the sex line, and I have met many of them. They face a very uphill battle, and because what they fight is innately programmed in the minds of most people, they always will. They have my sympathy, but they also face my frustration. This frustration is something most people cannot help, any more than they can help disliking the aroma of skunks. The problem faced is one of biological design.
Bill
I remember that i also felt insecure wearing a ponytail in public for the first time, even in front of my family, dunno why, i guess it was just something totally new for me.
But look in action movies for example, you often see guys with longhair, often in a ponytail, it seems to be quite common in martial arts fo some strange reason.
On some people i think that i can look more masculine with the hair combed back in a tail than having it loose, because from the front it gives the impression that one is short haired when in fact he isn't.
It'll be fun to try out braids and stuff as well when my hair is longer.
I think that seeing the ponytail look here first got me in to the idea that a tail isn't just for women, but the fact that I really saw just about every guy with long hair had a tail is I do believe what made it OK to do so. Nothing like first hand experience. I never said I was a noncomformist :)
Yeah i totally agree with you, i also thought like that, as i saw so many guys here in my city as well who sported ponytails.
I must've been a bit mistaken when i first read what you've posted, and i'm not too good writing in english:)
For me, hair is and will be a measure of freedom and eccentricity and eclectic-ness. With short hair, I did nothing with it and it was there. With long hair, longer than now, I will be able to make choices for each day. Up, down, sideways...ponytail, braid, loose, pigtails, bun, Tornado (tm), topknot...unadorned, pony tie, pony holder, hair stick, hair sticks, barette, pencil, headband, ribbon...base of neck, top of head, every possible distance between...
Consider all the options and all of the combinations. My hair could be different daily if I wanted to without repeats for many days. If I decide to go to something special, I can take a moment and decide how my hair will be.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I like girls with long hair for this reason--options. Let's say I invite a girl to get dressed up and go out to dinner and dancing or something. I don't know what her hair is going to look like--she may pull out a red ribbon and a pair of hair sticks to create a dramatic high bun...or she might braid a ponytail with an elegant barette at the base of the tail...or (for a less elegant occasion) she might put in pigtails...or she might let her hair flow loose and free...or she might try to emulate hairstyles from Star Wars. Now, this is on top of all the other options she has for the rest of her appearance--clothing, shoes, accessories, jewelry, cosmetics, etc.
Same thing with me. Options means a range of expression and a dynamic appearance that can change and adapt. And if I can change and adapt, I can be unique, I can be eclectic and original, I can be me.
Thanks for responding, I love to see what different people think and why they do so. We have a great variety of tastes here as far as hairstyle and individuality. I do believe you are quite my opposite Antesse! I celebrate my unique individualism by being quite plain :)
Take care
Interestingly, I've just been content to let my hair grow out to terminal and just lie where it wants. All I ever do is wash it, comb it, and tie a bandanna around it if it is windy. I have no interest in tying it in different ways or making it a different color or waviness. It's just part of me like my arms and legs are, and it can just be.
When you look the same all the time, in time you cease to feel any lack of conformity by being that way. It's just the way you are. That has been my experience anyway.
Bill
Hey I knew I could count on you Bill :) Just letting it be, that's about the way I think of it too. Of course I will probably not go terminal unless terminal strikes soon :)
I like the thought that hair can be perfect when left alone. Bill, I'd be willing to bet you have a higher satisfaction rate with your hair than someone contorting their hair into different positions or styles that don't come out exactly as desired.
The comparison to arms being left alone made me laugh as I thought of my brother who never has enough hair to change but does style his elbows by walking around getting the pleasure of grossing people out with his double jointed outward bend when desired.
Elizabeth
I don't see myself wearing certain hairstyles either. A ponytail is enough for me. Heck, I don't even like ponytails. I prefer my hair loose. I like to keep it simple when it comes to my hair. Wash it, Comb it, and let it do its thing. I guess I prefer that wild Nutjob(You Know Who You Are) savage hair look.
LOL well I am sure our wild man will appreciate the compliment, damn fine hair he has too :)
I understand completely where you're coming from on this. I've had long hair for so long that for many years I didn't ever do anything with it because it just wasn't socially acceptable, and most of the time I prefer it loose anyway. At the time when I first grew it out, if you weren't prepared to keep it down all the time you just weren't suited to grow it out. Even then, I recall one guy with a ponytail more than 25 years ago, but I wasn't comfortable with that for my own hair at the time.
Here in the 21st century (!) I have to say that if I go out with my hair in a braid, which I often do, absolutely no-one reacts to it in any way atall. It's a total non issue. Probably if I put my hair in a bun the reaction would be the same, i.e. none, but I personally don't feel comfortable with that ... yet!
OTOH, if my hair is loose, sometimes people do comment, usually favourably, or they just tell me my hair is long (I never knew that!).
Paradoxically, I always wear my hair loose for work. There are at least two reasons for this.
Firstly, to an older guy like me a ponytail still seems more avant garde than loose hair, even though I know that most younger guys think that a ponytail is more accepted by authority figures.
Secondly, and quite importantly, I once knew a guy who was repeatedly told by his boss that if he always wore a ponytail he might as well cut his hair off, and he did! That's one road I never want to go down.
Maybe there's a third reason. I work in an air-conditioned office, so my hair doesn't get in my way or make me hot. Having long hair loose for so many years before ever tying it back means I have an unusually high tolerance for what others might perceive as hair getting in the way.
I really was curious about where people were on this issue, some were pretty obvious like Bill or Jason. But most people here I would not have been able to guess who might indulge in fancier hairstyles and who wouldn't be caught dead in one :)
Coming in to this hair growing thing now, like the younger guys do, I also had the impression that long hair was more acceptable in a tail than not. It is fascinating to get longhair history from you my friend :)
It may possibly be more acceptable than loose hair, now. I'm not sure.
I think it was Sylvester Stallone that popularised the male ponytail, although I beleive he went back to having short hair soon after. Karl Lagerfeld wore one earlier and kept it for longer, so some people say it was him, but I don't think he had a real influence on most guys because he was a gay fashion designer, whereas Stallone had played Rambo in the films, although of course he was just an actor, not a real life tough guy. No offence intended to our gay friends, but most straight guys would rather look like Rambo than look like a dress designer! (However corny the Rambo image is, nobody could say he looked feminine)
Before Stallone, our options were either loose hair or an 'indian' headband like Bill sometimes wears, i.e. a bandana as he refers to it. The guy who I knew that wore a ponytail long before that was an American exchange student when I was in university in England during the late '70s or early '80s, so maybe it was more common in the US than the UK? In fact, he favoured using one of those leather barrettes that you put a stick through to hold his hair. My wife has a couple of those. I don't really think they look too feminine for a guy, but I've never really had the urge to get one.
Most of us on campus had long hair at that time, or what was considered long back then, and he was the ONLY ONE who didn't wear it loose 24/7. There were 6,000 students, so if you assume 50% girls and a minority of shorthairs, your probably talking about ONE ponytail in at least 2,000 longhaired guys. I'm fairly sure he was hetero as well, FWIW.
Come to think of it, ponytails were much less popular among girls at that time than they are now, so it just wasn't an 'in' thing to do with your hair, but fashions change. I think the female students at that time regarded a ponytail as a style for playing sports, etc., not for being seen about in.
Hi Chris,
The main way I have been wearing my hair is ponytailed when necessary, for physical activities like golfing, or if it is especially windy. For the most part, I still prefer plain, old, loose long hair. I have been tempted to try a braid on occasion, just to see if I could do it, but I could not get the hang of doing the hand motions very well. I did do a small rope braid once, but it was only for practice, not for show or to be worn in public. Jason is the biggest expert on braids and other styles here, but he has been doing those for a long time, and I remember, when he first started braiding, he DID feel somewhat self consciuos wearing these styles in public. These feelings did pass, however.
Take care, Chris,
David
Hey David thanks for responding, this is an interesting topic for me. Mainly because the way I feel about certain hairstyles being feminine is almost certainly the way some people feel about all long hair. So I can understand people who feel that way even if I don't agree with them :)
Hey Chris: Thanks for your provocative thoughts. As for me...I like varying the styles. I enjoy it long and loose and really like the way it feels across my shoulders and down my back (farther every day.) I also love the braid; it's look and feel. It is heavy and feels much different than a tail or when loose. My tail, due to my thick hair, can be really bunched up and curly or if brushed out... long(er) and more full feeling and looking. I liked the half-tail more when it was shorter than now but still will do it on occasion.
I also like the connection I feel to other people and dfferent cultures when I wear it differently, i.e. Willie Nelson's braids, the half tails and mini braids in Braveheart (BTW I have Welsch ancestry), the long, loose style of the Polynesian warriors. It is not, however, my motive for growing it or wearing it in any specific style. As for conformity...where I live I see men with it in each of the aforementioned styles. For me, the braid is the one I see (and wear) the least. When I do see it, it is almost always on "bikers." I too am a biker (among other things) and feel most comfortable wearing it when riding. I would not, on the other hand, consider wearing it to school where I teach because I don't think they could handle it!!! lol. I really don't see a gender component to how I wear my hair. I guess some styles could be considered more feminine than others, but that changes culturally and historically. I feel comfortable with both my masculine and feminine sides. And I've never felt that long hair was necessarily connected to being gay. In fact, the media's portrayal of gay men is usually associated with the G-Q, shorthaired look. Funny thing is, that's how it prefers to portray straight men too and why many of us longhairs (gay or straight) feel the pressure to cut our hair and conform. I am straight and I don't think all straight men look alike any more than all gay men look alike. That's pretty much absurd IMHO. Guess it all boils down to what I always say...just...
B-URSLF...Bruce'ster
Hey thanks for the response Bruce'ster! You do have the right idea. Be yourself, the best thing. One of the things that is interesting that I brought up is that with such a powerful force as societal pressure shaping one (willingly or no) is it possible that while I think I am being myself in not choosing a particular style, it is just conformity buried so deep as to be unrecognizable? Philosophy indeed :)
Hi Chris,
This is certainly a great post you've made, and I only wish I had time to respond to it in kind. You bring up lots of great points in your discussion and things to make one think.
I am not a ponytail person most of the time either just because I don't like the way it looks on me. I think they look fine for other guys, and might actually for me, but you know how we are our own worst critics. Since I've really been able to tie all my hair back and have it stay (about 5 months), I think I've tied it back four times. I rather see the hair out of the corner of my eye and have the look of loose hair. But who knows, as it gets longer and gets caught in more stuff, I may very well grow to love that look.
And, as for being a hypocrite, there is no one who at some level does not have an area which when pressed into that he does not hold some sort of preconceived ideaology or notion of this thing or the other in regards to the behavior of another or others. Further, if you really lacked passion, you'd have probably never grown long hair in the first place. I bet you'd become empassioned in a flying hurry if someone tried to cut your hair or demanded that you do so. And, besides, fun is a relative thing. Fun for me is reading a book and takning a nap; fun for some other guy is bungee jumping and mountain climbing.
Thanks for responding Matt. I do occasionally have a ponytail but don't prefer it either. Even though that was what I was aiming for for a long time when I was growing out at first.
Right now I have the hair long mostly because at one point I really wanted it that way and I am hoping that I will really care about it again. For now its mostly inertia, more like I am keeping it for someone else. Hence the "lack of passion" for hair right now. I suspect health issues are behind this.
For myself, for the most part having longish to long hair has just about always been part of my whole life. Without having long hair for me just doesn't feel right and I now know where terminal is which is about 4" below waist level. So from now on I plan to keep my hair (because it looks the best that way in my eyes) at waist level and am very much happy with it the way it is.
I "think(?) I may be the only among all the other guys here that likes to wear a thin leather band around my head alot. And for the ponytail, in my case I have never tired of that or flipping it over one shoulder.
So, guess I just do my own thing and conform only to what my inner self tells me. It all comes automatically to myself.
Thanks for the response Justin. It does seem that many of the people who responded here do have a strong sense of what feels right to them regarding longhair. I came into this on a whim it seems, even if an eager one. That strong feeling about hair has long since passed for me though. No inner self is telling me "who I am" with respect to hair. I could go either way, I am no true or natural longhair or whatever. Long hair seemed "interesting" on and off throughout my life. But when I didn't have long hair I wasn't even thinking about hair much at all. There was no discrepancy or feeling like I wasn't being myself. This strong sense of self connected with hair is absent in me. Growing out seemed like something fun to do rather than correcting some wrongness I had inflicted upon myself for years.
It is fascinating to hear the different perspectives of people here in connection to self identity and hair. I definitely feel like a casual longhair here rather than the true longhair type. That is ok with me too.
Word for word of the selected text works for me too. I think I have talked with you before about how my hair could be gone instantly and I'd think nothing of it. At the same time, it is fun to have hair I normally keep hidden and unfurl it like a peacock's showy tail but that is all it is, merely something fun and I could have as much fun in other ways though perhaps with less shock value.
At the same time my favorite hairstyle is just to have it comfortably tucked in a cap I do have at least some connection to my hair in addition to the roots. Preparing for a stressful day recently I made my other comfort style- two braids to go to the hospital to learn what was going on with Bill's dad and his health. Now I haven't done that work, minimal at it really is, in a while but it felt so good to get back to something so familiar. It also felt like I was flaunting my battle flags and I did feel better for choosing that style for the day so I guess I'm a funny mix in what my hair does for me.
Somewhere in your responses (not gonna even try to find it) was something about wanting long hair because it was non-conformist (I guess it wasn't you then) and wondering what the value would be if it was a style typical of men. I wonder the same about Bill's bald head that I find so attractive. It is not the look itself for me but the pleasure of finding great value in something reviled by others. Given his long hair with the bald top he satisfies even more style rulebreaking and I think that is so great.
Elizabeth
P.S. What was all this about no half-tails seen where you live? Have you not had your eyes open at the Maryland Renaissance Festival? :-D
P.P.S. Carol's mention of a braid on you sounds so good looking. That streak would wind visibly back and forth and really give a good focus to the structure of a braid.
Wow, Chris. There's lot of thought to digest here. So I am going to leave your comments intact and respond to them point by point.
Braids are really not as difficult as they seem. A basic braid involves separating hair into three sections, and overlapping them. I learned as kid by using a bundle of yarn, which you could try yourself, until you get the hang of it, and feel ready to try it on your hair. Or, find a willing female (I'd do it in a hearbeat, if you were nearby), to braid it for you.
Associated with youth, because youth are blessed with the thickest hair, and often the most vibrant shades. It is their crowning glory, and yet so many are restricted (especially if male) from enjoying nature's gift. As age comes, so does loss of color, texture, and overall amount. As long as you _have_ it though, why not enjoy it, if not flaunt it outright. Is it really recapturing youth, or finally being true to yourself and your inner destiny, which you kept hidden for so long? You finally came to grips that it's who you are, and age is not a factor.
Amazing how conditioned we have become by society's norms, isn't it? Once more people become non-conformists, gradually society begins to accept. It can take decades, generations, before society adapts to changes, and what was once considered unacceptable, becomes commonplace.
More and more longhairs are sporting tails, which I think is a good thing! Some of this may have arisen out of convenience, some out of a desire to be unconventional. Tails have never been exclusively feminine; Native Americans and the ancient Celts and Vikings have been wearing tails among their manfolk for centuries.
Your "comfort zone" may expand in time. You went out of your "comfort zone" when you chose to grow your hair long as a middle-aged man. But it's okay if you prefer remaining in a certain comfort zone, too. Some are just not as brave, or willing. Others are in circumstances where it becomes difficult. You do what works for you.
Someone has to break the mold, and say "heck!" with the stereotypes. It doesn't have to be you. There are others willing to pave the way for the future to follow. Not everyone is a leader in changing societal perceptions. You may feel differently down-the-road. You may decide it's time to buch convention and try something new. You just may (gasp!) go out in public with those silver-streaked locks in a nice sleek long braid down the middle of your back. You may, or may not be, rattled by negatory comments. Depending on how thick a skin you have developed over time. Or you may be pleasantly surprised by a compliment. You will never know until you try it.
We are so ingrained from youth to be conformists, it's hard to undo all that societal brainwashing. I have gotten to the point in my life where I am much more inclined to think outside the box, being more open-minded really free's me up, not too mention I stress way less about what really amounted to miniscule things. People worry wayyyyyy too much about appearances, their own and others. We are constantly bombarded with images of what is correct and popular, and if you don't fit in with the masses, you are somehow labeled as being unco-operative, or having an attitude problem, I used to hate when they'd pull that spiel on me in school.
I don't see you as hypocritical at all. Everybody is on different journey regarding their hair. Most of society conforms, some buchk the conventions, and some push the envelope to the extremes. So you are not of the fringe element that is willing to risk the more elaborate/different hairstyles? If anything comes out of choosing to be a longhair, it's respect for others choices, even when they may not respect yours. And having fun with it can be as simple as enjoying what others would find annoying; hair in your face, blowing everywhere in the wind, touching the skin of your shoulders and back, etc.
Hehehe... well you have MY thoughs, and I rambled on quite a bit myself. I think you look great with your hair loose and flowing as it is. You remind me of a Spanish Conquistador with the facial hair added. Don't change your look for anybody but you.
Carol
Thanks for such a thoughtful reply Carol. Much to think about here. I suppose I am fortunate that none of my self identity is restricted by what society expects of me. I am a successful example of effective brainwashing, well except for the long hair thing ;)
You are right that the leaders of change undoubtedly make these changes because they cannot tolerate conditions as they are. Whereas those of us who are comfortable have nothing to fight about.
All interesting points here!
Chris ...
Wow man... you've been thinking about this for awhile! For me; having just reached the 1 year mark... I haven't thought about styles simply because I'm not really at the point to try them.
However; I know within the next year or so many will become available to me. I am really only anxious to try the half tail at this point simply because it will keep it out of my face since I do so many physical activities. - I like bandanas, but they are starting to get old. I've had one on just about every day for the past 3 months!
Anyway; I think your enthusiasm (or your lack of as you stated)for long hair styles may be attributed to this: Sometimes people are more enthusiastic about the journey to long hair than the long hair itself. After all; life is one continuous journey right? Maybe this is grabbing at straws a bit; but I occasionally wonder .... In another year when my hair is much longer; will my enthusiasm subside ??? Maybe so. Maybe I'm really only excited about the journey as well. I suppose time will tell.
In any case; sorry ... I too can get a little winded at times. But if its any consolation to you.. your hair looks great and will look good no matter what style you put it in ... or just let loose...
Be Blessed..
Tristan
Thanks for responding Tristan. I suppose I have been thinking about it on and off for awhile, but never felt like thinking on it long enough to put into words and post about it. I am usually not the wordiest guy here but I suppose the time was right.
You may be right about the journey being the most interesting part of growing out. For me it certainly was a novel experience. I was all fired up about it when I first started, couldnt grow my hair fast enough. Then I wanted it to be long enough for a tail. When it was long enough to do that I did it for awhile and then mostly stopped. I had achieved what I thought of as long hair. I never set another real goal beyond that and now the hair just grows. Not out of a strong desire to reach a new goal but just because i am not sure what I want to do with it now.
I do hope you never lose your enthusiasm for your hair. It looks great now and will be even better as it grows out. I wasn't trying to instill doubts in anyone :)
Take care Tristan
Dear Friends,
ChrisG has stimulated a valuable dialog.
First, I respond as a 73 year old. Every morning I get up, make coffee, feed the dog, and while he is eating go out and get the daily paper. Strangely the obits. are in the first section, and when I discover my death by stroke or coronary has not been reported, I am then stunned by the premature deaths of young people, with cause rarely attributed unless it is due to auto or motorcycle accident.
Second, I respond as a social scientist, specifically psychologist, but with some anthropological perspective. If I may make a profound observation, males and females differ slightly in their morphological structure -- but so slightly that every culture has sought ways to magnify this difference so we can tell the boys from the girls at a distance, and make minimal mistakes. However, this symbolization differs greatly over time and from culture to culture.
All my life I have been a victim of this culturally induced comformity to symbolic masculinity. I am a man, and like being a man, and never wanted to be anything else, except with some awareness that however unfair the culture is to women, it also puts less pressure on women to conform.
However, I have always wanted long hair, always tried to wear my hair longer than typical, and usually felt depressed after visiting the shear shack, because the executionary thought that more should be removed than I requested.
It has only been in the last decade of my life that I have felt free from social and professional pressure to defy convention and grow my hair. Retrospectively, I realize I have always been freer than I personally experienced, but being a poor boy who made well, I doubtless projected expectations from others that were only deeply ingrained fear of challenging convention coming from inside me.
NOW, having shoulder length hair at last, and with great pleasure, I do not like pony tails, for to me they give the impression of youth, which I once enjoyed, but to which I wish not to return.
I like being old, as long as I do not read my obit in the morning paper.
I wear my hair down only when with my SO, or among close friends. If I had hair like Jason, and some of you other younger people, perhaps I would wear it down more often, but my curly/wavy hair can be fly-away. So I prefer to use a celtic silver clasp, put in upside down, turned up, so that the long hair then falls over the clasp, and I use a one or two bobby pins to stablize the clasp. I have also learned that I can use two toopicks to stablize a bun, and since they are virtually invisible, I find that fun. I have also experimented with thin skewers, which I have cut short, but which provide a stronger hold than tooth picks.
Of course at my age, my hair is somewhat thinner, and more brittle, but I have it at last, and I never get bad feedback.
Not senile yet, were I to get bad feed back, I have the intellectual power to blow my critic away. But I am not a warrior; I find military metaphors offensive; I scrutinize the publications in my dentist office, take them into the chair, and tell him he should not have such there, most recently confronting him with a story about a "prayer warrior" in a publication from Colorado Springs allegdly about "family values." He thanks me for cleansing his waiting room, and promisses to tell his staff not to put fundamentalist merde in the waiting room. I ask him, does he not think war is obsolete when we can encircle the globe by air in 24 hours, and instantly communicate with China electronically. Has not the time come to talk and not fight?
So for my age cohort, I like pushing the envelope. I could never have felt so free as those of you who have grown up with long hair, or pioneered the way like Bill and Absolom, and others. And I am greatful to the Beatles, and I love their musical genious.
But thank you all. I see long hair as a symbolic expression of our free manhood, and I suspect most of us are very peaceful, rejecting the idea that we can ever make any one else do anything they do not wish to do, without violating their very being, which paradoxically would also be a violation of our very selves.
No?
Caledonian
Thanks, friend. For those of you who haven't read what Caledonian wrote, above, do yourselves a favor and do so. For those of you who have read his words, do yourselves a favor, and do so again. :)
Hi Caledonian,
You have advanced some insightful sentiments here today, and they are much appreciated. I like your style of discourse. Profundity combines with everyday situational things to generate a memorable impact. Well, I have to ask now if you like Mark Twain too - the part about waking up and reading the obituary. Not that your ideas are derivative by any means, but that line found me thinking about his Letters from the Earth just now.
Also, did you receive the response I sent you some days back to your e-mail? It was rather short, but bears recounting if you didn't happen to get it.
Bragi
Brigi,
I did get your earlier response, and appreciated it. I have had a lot coming at me, a combination of taking care of other people, and opportunities to enjoy myself.
Alaways feel free to comnicate with me back channel, for I realize we have lots in common, and if ever that rig your are driving takes control to go to the cooler climes, please let me know. I have an extra guestroom for an individual or a couple, and in fact another guest bedroom if their are kinder.
James
Hey Caledonian thanks for the fascinating reply. Quite interesting to get a professional opinion on this subject. After all who else would use the word "dialog"? ;)
I am glad that you did have the chance to break out of the mold and grow your hair out when you did. I guess i can't complain too much that I started out growing hair late in life. :)
I guess what really struck me most was the fact that I carry around inside me a very similar feeling about hairstyle that other people feel about hair length. There is really is no difference and that ability to see both sides of the problem at once fascinated me.
I quite agree with you about the fundamentalist thing, I am agnostic myself and their hypocracy really ticks me off but if I were Christian I believe I would even be more offended by their family values "merde" as you said. It seems a little too convenient that the family values crowd gets to pick and choose which passages to keep and which to ignore. It is fine and dandy to denounce being gay as a sin but its ok to eat all the catfish and crustaceans you want even though they are both banned in the same section of the bible I believe. Also banned I had heard was the wearing of clothes made from more than one type of fiber. Good luck getting "Christians" on board with those ideas!
Don't forget the part about pigs being unclean (there goes Sunday pork), women working, and especially the "eye for an eye" bit.
Ironically, Leviticus has these two verses:
You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard (Leviticus 19:27)
and
They shall not make any bald place on their heads, nor shall they shave the edges of their beards nor make any cuttings in their flesh (Leviticus 21:5).
Apparently, these are in response to pagan hairstyles of the time, but, nevertheless, they represent a great sense of hypocrisy for any fundamentalist worth his salt. Piercings of any kind, including, it would seem, hospital injections, are now officially banned. Yay, the Bible now supports death by curable diseases! But only if you're a fundamentalist, of course.
Peace
Yes, a lot of these little passages that people have been quoting (like pigs and disfiguring beards and bottomfeeders and homosexuality and single fiber garments) are often taken out of context. Some have been "rewritten" or "retracted" by the New Testament. Some were for special circumstances--like the Old Testament Nazarites and their restrictions including ones on hair. Some were for health (sanitation of pigs). Something to keep in mind is the fact that part of the fundamental elements of religion between the the Mosaic Law of Judaism and the revelations leading to Christianity is a switch from orthopraxy to orthodoxy--right practice to right belief. To the Christian, it does not matter what you do (for the most part) as long as you believe the right thing (which includes some actions). Of course, some of the funny rules come instead from a history of church leaders such as the writings of the Doctors of the Church (Aquinas, Augustine, Catherine of Sienna, and others) and the writings of the early Christian papacy or modern leaders. Or some of the funny spins come from interpretations of the Doctors or the papacy or modern leaders. Personally, as a scholar of all things including theology and religion, there needs to be a certain deal of personal revelation and meditation. Is that pig food? What about that catfish? Does your personal deity want you to have long hair and a beard? Does he/she/them want you to choose for yourself?
Nice thoughts. Buns! Woo!
Other than that, it is either in a clipped ponytail or down. Braids don't work well for me, either making them or wearing them (although I can do them well enough, and I don't mind how they look). I can do a two strand rope braid which looks pretty good, but causes my arms to fall off. Can't do a french braid to save my life, but I really like the style.
Luckily I live in a place where it is socially acceptable to pretty much wear your hair how you want it.
Thanks for the reply Trolleypup. Someday I may change my mind about the hairstyle thing, as I figure it for me the more often I see something the less unusual it is. Now I may never choose the style for myself either way but I am glad that people here are able to express themselves without regard to social pressure. That is how all progress is made. It may start out in the San Francisco area but it eventually makes it's way to less enlightened areas. Fortunately in Washington DC and its environs the area is very progressive as well. So I get no hassles for the hair either, I feel bad for all the MLHH guys out in the more conservative areas of the world. They have to have real heart to grow out, and even more to do elaborate hairstyles!
WOW, Chris, what an outstanding read!
You will probably be surprised in reading what I'm about to confess to here; but, I believe I'm more closely aligned to your way of thinking than you would probably guess to be true, --- especially considering that nowadays i fearlessly wear my hair in any number of ways (including some that are considered a bit more "exotic" for a guy to do - lol)....
The 1st time I grew my hair long, which was in the '90s, every added inch of length meant overcoming another level of self-consciousness and hurdles of shyness & timidity (which go way back to my childhood). IF i could good away with it, I'd much prefer wearing my hair loose & free; but in my professional life, I've always had physical aspects of my job(s) that made tieing my hair back simply a matter of practical necessity, --- and the longer it's gotten, the more I've had to explore different ways of keeping it under control (not to also mention, "safe" on the job).
Whenever I'm at work, my preference is to appear as "understated" as possible. I want to concentrate on whatever the job is at hand to do, NOT have people notice my hair (or anything else physically about me, either). So, to me that has meant learning about how to find different ways that I can keep my hair neat and out-of-the-way all day, and having it be bound in one way or another in order to keep its wildness under control --- since cutting it back to short is NOT an option I am willing to conform to anymore!!
The first time I ever wore a braid or bun out in public, I was VERY self-conscious (an understatement)!!!! But, over time, I have learned that for my particular hair length as it is (as well as my hair type, and its behavior), braids and buns feel the MOST COMFORTABLE for me now, --- which, when I think about how timid I was when I first ventured to work wearing it that way, it totally AMAZES me now!
San Francisco also happens to be a very windy city. Once my hair got much beyond the shoulder blade length, the amount of snarls and tangles just increased to the point of having to eventually choose between: 1) trimming it back to shoulder-length, or; 2) continuing to grow it out, but then regularly wearing it in either a braid, bun, or segmented ponytail (like Absalom does). I chose to stay with choice #2 (for now, at least); but if I ever want to return back to more freedom of allowing myself to wear my hair more loose again on a regular basis, then I will probably eventually choose #1.
Thanks again for starting up such an intriguing discussion, --- and no, in my humble opinion, you are NOT in *any* way a, "hypocrite" (lol)!!
- Ken
Thanks for the interesting and personal reply Ken. I can see where you are coming from. Choosing between cutting your hair back shorter or an unconventional style, I can see how if the length was more important than the style you would have to choose the way you did. That is interesting because it gets me to thinking about something that has been nagging at me of late. I have now much more hair than I first envisioned when I set out to grow my hair.
My idea of long hair is I guess what is called longish here. Ponytail length is what I had wanted to reach. I had no thought of anything beyond that. Now I am growing my hair out without a goal, and I am not sure if I like it at the length it is now. But since I cannot seem to figure out what I want in terms of length I have simply let my hair grow.
Now I do not feel that more is better with my hair. There probably is a great length for me but I am not sure what it is. I have no inner guidance on this and I haven't really spend that much time thinking about it. Out of fear of making a mistake by cutting my hair back I have done nothing. Obviously I am not projecting any self image of myself out to the world here with my hair this way. I just have to hope it isn't too ugly to the world until I figure out what I want :)
I am just getting vague feelings that my hair is too long now or something.
I think you're not alone in having feelings like this. When I first grew my hair out in the '90s, all I ever thought possible for me at first was ponytail-length. It was over time that I gradually realized I wanted to at least experience belt-length or longer (even if I eventually cut it back a bit shorter someday). Every time I see a guy with super-long hair on the street, it has inspired me to have that as my goal (for now, at least). When I impulsively cutting my hair very short in Y2K, I robbed myself of experiencing what I had grown to wish for, --- and so now I'm, "making up for lost time" (lol)!!
I have some pics from a few years ago where I remember feeling like the length was, "the best of both worlds". The pics currently on my website were taken by Bill in '04. The length there is what I would call, "shoulder-blade length", something that I remember really liking at the time, --- and yet I could wear it down and loose more than I currently feel I can now with it at my waist-belt area. There's also a pic on my Dance Page where my hair is just resting on top of my shoulders. It was taken in Sept. of '02, --- which is just about the time I remember feeling my hair had finally gone beyond the awkward stage. I wore it loose or in half-tils then, --- and it was FUN!! That's about the shortest I can picture ever cutting my hair back to; but then again I'm one of those weird guys that actually don't mind the many different styles of what everyone here calls, "the awkward stage"... which is what I tend to call, "longISH hair".
Just keep on growing your hair until it becomes clear to you that you no longer like it super-long. At that point, all you have to do is look back at your old pictures, and you're bound to remember a length that you liked better and can trim it back to. That's what I plan on doing, anyway. Also, once you do decide to trim it shorter, cut off only a few inches at a time, rather than anything radical, --- I certainly learned that lesson the hard way back in Y2K!
Take care, --- and good luck on your journey!
- Ken
Hey Chris,
I feel where you are comming from. It does take time to get used to wearing your hair in different styles. I remember the first time I wore a tail out in public and how i felt, not it is nothing for me to wear a braid, bun, top knot, half-tail, half-braid or any other weird hair style I can think of. My reasning for the different styles if functionality.
When I play disc golf, today for instance I wore a top knot and yester day I wore a bun. As a musician playing at different churches on sundays I either wear a braid or just a tail.
But on an average day of just going to class or hanging around the house I let the freak flag fly.
All in all, long hair is ment to please one person, the one wearing it. So that being said, the best style is YOUR style.
peace
clayton
Thanks for the response Clayton. That is an interesting point of view, much like Ken's. Some styles are necessary for certain activities. I haven't reached a point where anything more than a tail is required for my length of hair. If something had to be done more than that it would probably be a reason (not the only one) to consider a trim.
You are so right about the style being to please the wearer, and that is something I haven't done enough of I believe. I do need to give this length thing more thought as I mentioned below.
Great post Chris, and very interesting to read everyones thoughts.
I am not a fan of ponytails, braids or anything other than the unruley natural mess that my hair is. I admire other peoples creative hair styles but its not for me - not now anyway.
This is me, this is how my hair naturally grows and I love it. So I'm with Bill in that sense.
However a ponytail is handy for working round the house, cycling, clearing drains!, but as soo as I am finished its set free again.
I had ameeting the other day and did tie it up in a ponytail and made myself look a lot sharper, as my natural look is rather mad, so it definately has its plus points.
Regards, Dave the savage nutjob.
LOL I guess you saw Chris H's comments! Well take it from me never trust a Chris ;)
Thanks for the reply, I love to know why people do what they do, it is fascinating to me. I should have Caledonian's job. Only problem is I don't want to hear about all those pesky problems :)
We do have all kinds of opionions on this and I was delighted to get so many answers to such an unusual post. But I really was curious! It's great to hear all the points of view and I was (selfishly) glad to hear I wasn't the only one who kept things simple. Great diversity here at MLHH :)
Very interesting reflection, Chris. I can relate in some way I think.
Part of the reason I kept my hair buzzed for so many years (and still quite short before that) was because I didn’t want to be perceived as “too feminine.” Burned into my mind from school and other activities are images of “girly-girls” with their nails done, their hair all long and pretty, their pink outfits, skirts, and unicorn shoes. Usually they were the last ones interested in getting dirty, catching grasshoppers, playing with legos, or running around with toy water guns (though of course I realize that the human tendency to stereotype means I probably simply didn’t “see” examples to the contrary). On the other hand, I was a tom-boy. No dresses for me, skip the pink, bring on the mud, and heaven forbid I look like I spent anything more than five minutes in front of a mirror working on my appearance.
And then I decided to grow my hair out. I knew (and still know) that there are many things about me that need to change. Attaching that psychological/spiritual process to a naturally occurring process (growing hair) made quite a bit of sense, and looking in a mirror each day is a reminder of how far I’ve come and how far I need to go.
But I still struggle with my own stereotypes. Despite the fact that a longhair friend of mine likes to wear his hair in pigtails on occasion, I balk at the idea. To “girly” for me, even though he looks quite masculine in them. Braids have been easier to accept mostly because of their appearance on male movie characters and some lovely photos by the men of this site. Buns seemed a little feminine, but again I’ve seen some very masculine photos on this site (believe me, men don’t look “girly” at ALL with a bun), and when a friend of mine put my hair into a bun with a Celtic hairpiece one afternoon I liked the convenience of having it off my neck.
But I still have my own demons to fight. Maybe someday I’ll wear pigtails to work…but not today.
Mouse
That is quite a unique take on the problem Mouse, but as you said it goes right along with what I was talking about.
You painted quite an amusing picture of your childhood there Mouse, I can picture you getting the best of the boys in a aquirt gun battle! Did you grow up mostly surrounded by boys? I was wondering whether the tom boy nature came on despite being pushed to be a girly girl or rather because being around boys that just became the default way to be. My partner grew up with no sisters, just one brother and all of her neighbors were boys so she played what they played, and never got to be girly girl either (thank god for that lol)
Unicorn shoes, that did make me LOL!
I know I will never be the cutting edge of fashion here as my tastes are old fashioned and plain, and I am quite comfortable with that :)
You sound like you have quite an interesting story of your own that you have only hinted at (regarding hair and otherwise). Sometime if you are interested perhaps you will share more. It is fascinating to know more about someone than just hair, which to me is just the smallest of interesting facets of people.
We all are on a similar journey after all.
Chris,
I grew up with a younger sister and no brothers. My parents certainly tried to encourage me in the usual female activities such as dance, but it wasn't meant to be. I ended up in t-ball, playing soccer, and finally martial arts. I'm certainly no natural athlete, but I certainly wasn't going to be caught dead in a pink tutu. My mom even hand-made a doll for me one Christmas...and I promptly gave it to my sister. I had a mix of female and male friends growing up. I tended to hang out with other girls not interested in playing dress-up or obsessing over boys (when the hormones kicked in). My best [female] friend from age 10 to 18 thought watching Star Trek and turning the living room into a war-zone was great fun. :-)
I think in reality most of us don't fit the absolute stereotypes for the genders.
Mouse
You sound typical to me Mouse, but then I was wearing my Mr. Spock pajama top to school along with my Incredible Hulk shoes, both from the boys section of the store. Then again, unicorn shoes sound pretty neat too, particularly if they lit up or sparkled and had a pink frosted cupcake scratch and sniff panel. I like variety in my clothes and the choice to go either way or a mix makes it fun. Shame society looks more warily at the boys and men who want the same simple wish.
Elizabeth
I agree. I wish society would loosen it's bonds on male stereotypes and allow men more freedom of expression. I find much comfort in the Pagan community. When I attend rituals (and especially larger gatherings) I'll see men wearing sarongs, dresses, skirts, kilts...whatever they WANT to wear. One of the first guys I met at a harvest ritual was wearing a skirt. He felt the need to explain that he was "just a normal, heterosexual guy who liked wearing a skirt sometimes." I admitted to him that since I'd just returned from a large festival I hadn't even really NOTICED the skirt.
Mouse
And why are tomboys so acceptable in modern society, yet heaven forbid if a boy should like dolls? Dolls are seen as a 'gay' thing. I post on a doll board, as I collect some Tonner fashion dolls. There are a number of male posters there as well. I would say they are divided evenly between gay and straight. The married ones sometimes, but not always, share their passion for dolls with their partner. Robert Tonner himself, began his interest in classic child, and adult fashion dolls, by playing with and sewing fashions for them as a child, using his mother's sewing machine. He is married and has one child, a son. And in response to requests from collectors, he has produced a few of his male dolls in productions with long hair. I have two of them in my collection.
Carol
Having an intersexed condition that commonly produces tomboys, I can identify with some of your post. But I was a mixture, as I sometimes did like girlish stuff. I liked the water guns, and cap guns, inchworms crawling on my arm, playing with the neighbors cool outdoor minature village (Construction equipment toys and dirt are da bomb!), ballgames, forts/treehouses, snowball fights and rough-and-tumble play. But I also liked my stuffed toys and dolls too. I was not a little fashionista, but for formal occassions and Church, I liked to dress in more girly stuff. I didn't have long hair though, mine was always in a pixie cut. In my teens, I grew my hair long, wore dresses and skirts even less, and hung around with a group of boys who were dorks, geeks, nerds, and social outcasts. I was quite a dork myself.
It didn't help my adolescence that my intersexuality (which had been masked until then), was showing it's presence with puberty, my body betraying me with very unfeminine results. I didn't feel feminine, and I didn't identify with females, my thought processes and interests matched my male peers that I hung with. I've since learned that I have Aspergers Syndrome (a type of high-functioing autism), so my brain has always been male-oriented. The one thing I did that helped me with hanging on to my female identity, was grow my hair, down past my waist at it's longest.
I still feel as a middle-aged adult, that I am somehow split between two genders, not fully female (even if the gonads are there), but not fully male (even though I have the testosterone and it's virilizing effects). Learning that I had an intersexed condition as a young adult, was quite a revelation. It explained a lot of things, answered a lot of questions. The same with learning about Aspergers.
Today I am a jeans and t-shirt gal, who briefly went short-haired, due to medical reasons, and HATED it! It isn't about male or female, it's all about me. Society be damned, I'm going to grow old gracefully, with long hair. I take my anti-androgen faihfully, to treat my intersexed condition. An added bonus is that it helps with my thinning hair. I decided I'm going to let my thin, baby-fine hair grow, and I don't care what anybody else thinks.
So what if my scalp is visible beneath my hair on the crown of my head. Cutting it shorter won't change that fact. I was a towheaded blonde as a kid, I'm reverting back to that. My hair does not hold perms well. Been there, done that. On another board I post at, a poster told me she knows someone with hair problems like mine. One doesn't really notice the thin areas on the scalp, because her hair looks like fine silk, due to it's untra-fine texture and shine. Ones eyes are drawn to the beautiful sheen, not her barely visible scalp. I don't have the thickness for elaborate hairstyles, any tail or braid I do is less than inch circumference. And I can't center part it, so I part it to one side. I'll make due with the limitations. When in high school, my preference then was to let it hang long and loose.
As you get older, the ingrained stereotypes become easier to discard. Oddly enough, I have never been a bun or pigtail fan. But I was never a fan of buzzcuts or crewcuts or really short hair in general, in both guys and gals. So, it's okay if you never go that route. I just say more power to the guys that are willing to pave the way into such uncharted territory.
Carol
Dorks are cool...after all, my mother married a math nerd and their resulting offspring have a definite dorky streek. I used to think I was the only dorky one in the family but then my sister showed her true colors and graduated with a math teaching degree this spring. She is, in her own words, a nerd, but a very well dressed and social one. :-)
I'm glad you're going to let your hair grow out. Too many women fall for the "you're too old for long hair" trap. I know plenty of women with long, grey locks and they look lovely.
Thanks for sharing your story,
Mouse
I reckon I'm now completely free from any stereotypes I had prior to growing out hair....although tbh I'm not sure I really had any. I always liked those movies where some medieval or fantasy warrior had long hair, and I've been watching those all my life.
I'm even completely comfortable with walking around with a tail, now that I can do one that holds (with a bit of gel on windy days). In fact, in some situations like formal events I'd rather have a tail than not.
The only thing I am uncertain of or afraid, is that I will be pressured into cutting my hair for job promotions. And I'm not talking about what people tell me they think about my hair, because I don't care, unless they're my employer. It's when I get a seriously unfair disadvantage.
I say this now because i'm leaving for a one month internship at a multinational bank, and although they've seen a picture of me, they haven't really said anything about my hair, except the HR woman on the phone made a joke about me looking like John Lennon (the picture is quite old now). I'm just really nervous in case when I come in on the first day, they tell me to go and get a haircut.
Once I'm in a foreign country with the return flight in one month, what am I going to do if I'm in such a situation? My family would go nuts if they found out I left the job because they told me to get a haircut.
That is quite a predicament you are in. Do you think it would be worthwhile to send them a more recent picture and get the whole thing out in the open so that everybody knows before you go to the other country? It seems that way if they have a problem with the hair than you would be able to discuss it with the human resources people ahead of time. You don't want to find out when you are over there and then have a problem.
If it is possible I would send a picture so there will not be any problem and if possible get some kind of a letter in writing back if they say you are fine before you go.
I would let the bank see what they are getting before you commit. This will give you time to think about what you want ahead of time instead of forcing you to make a quick choice you may regret like Bragi did (who I believe was also in banking IIRC)
Good luck with the internship (I hope they will take you as you are but don't wait to find out)
Take care
Well what I've just done is send my contact at the bank an e-mail asking about whether the hair is ok or not, considering that I'll have it styled back into a ponytail with gel to make it look more professional.
I'v also gotten rid of my moustache and goatee, which I wasn't too fond of myself anyway (doesn't grow that well yet), so that might easen up the situation, being clean shaved I mean.
Chris,
Please do n ot cut your strong hair until your haleth status has been clarified, and then only if you must. Your hair is powerful, as I see it in the photograph. My best wishtes to you.
Caledonian
I guess you could ask about the dress code including head hair and facial hair and all that. I do not know for sure but I assume that unless they have a set rule, there is little they can do with discrimination laws on the books (I assume they would have them all over).
You may need to do a tail or a bun and make it neat everyday.
Just got the reply to the mail I sent yesterday. Apparently there are quite a few men there wearing tails (which is what I was going to wear), so this is a massive relief to me. The facial hair I've gotten rid of myself though, as I was looking for a change, and that never takes long to grow back (at my level anyway).
Yes, you are unique just like some of the rest of us!
Well written commentary. I agree completely.
Thanks for expressing it so well.
George
Hey thanks for posting George, it's always fascinating to see who thinks what on some of the basic stuff. I tend to be more into the whys of people doing things or not doing them. This kind of thing gets people talking :)