new thread
When I said that haircuts are equivalent to mutilation it evoked some fairly heated responses. Am I alone in feeling this way? My hair is NOT my fingernails....it is ME... ME.
Touch my hair, touch my soul.....fuck off...
I would choose death rather than have myself mutilated at the hands of a barber. Extreme? Perhaps but that how I honestly feel about my long hair. Touch my hair? NOoooo..!!
You'r not alone Jason.
i really think that a haircut is a mutilation, my hair is a part of my body like my hand , my arm...
i need to cut my end beceause it's very damaged but i can't beceause it would hurt me !
i hate when people say me that i should have a haircut beceause for me it's like if they say that i would be better if i wasn't me....
Cya
Hair and fingernails are very similar, both are things that can be cut from the body without pain (at least neurologically).
My fingernails are ME, the loads of epidermal cells that I shed daily are me as well. I feel no discomfort as they fall or are washed away. I cannot conceive that hair itself is you, it is a part of you certainly. So is your spleen for that matter, but is your spleen YOU?
I will certainly concede that your desire to use hair as a means of self expression is very important to you, and that again would make self expression an important part of you, but not the whole you either.
There is nothing wrong with having things be very important to you, just don't assume that others are feeling the same way, even on a longhair board. Passion for hair can be fun, much as passion for food or music can be fun, something good to hang on to against the many things that can go wrong for someone. A pleasant counterbalance.
However I do not see hair as any sort of "martyr cause" that anyone would choose death over a haircut. So to me you are either:
1) Joking in an over the top manner to relate your passion for hair(quite common here and in hyperbole worldwide :) )
2) Serious about your resolution to hold on to your belief in self expression (although I do not believe you really could choose death should this choice be forced upon you. But this is from a person who cannot think of many situations short of saving another from death where self sacrifice is appropriate, and even then I would hope I would make the right choice cause I am not so brave naturally)
Regardless of which one it is, hair is just hair after all to me anyway. It can be self expression much like casual clothes are self expression. A preference , and a changeable one at that.
To me it seems your steadfast pursuit of being free to make your own choices is part of your soul, the hair just happened to be the part that was repressed when you were younger. Perhaps if you would have been forbidden to eat chocolate all of your life and suddenly fought for the right to eat it and loved it chocolate would be your soul instead :)
It's all well and good to fight for what you want, I just don't know if you would really go to the lengths you say you would to keep it. If it's a joke, well then I get it, long hair is pretty cool looking yeah!
Chris,
I wasn't kidding. I wasn't joking. Just because long hair is not all that important to you, please understand that it IS very important to some of us. Yes, I would rather die than have myself and my identity stripped by a barber. Am I totally normal or sane to feel this way? Perhaps not but it is what it is....
Hi Jason (and Chris, too);
A very wise and spiritually-minded person once shared this thought with me...
If you take an orange, and stip it of all the rind, squeeze out all the juice, and toss any seeds or other remnants of an orange, --- and you did this to ALL oranges world-wide, and cut down and killed all orange tress... What would you still have left???
You'd still have the IDEA (or "Identity", if you will) of an orange!
When I cut my hair in Y2K, had I taken my life afterwards (because of being so devastated that I was literally "attached" to long hair as inseprable from my identity), I would not be here today, sharing this thought with you....
As much as I like long hair (an understatement - lol), if a crazed Nazi came along tomorrow and buzzed all of it off, I would be letting him truly "win" if I then took my life because of it. I would still be a longhair at heart (and would maintain it as a part of my soul, or inner identity), --- albeit, a very shorn one!!
- Ken
- Ken
Ken, Don"t forget the seeds for next years growth!
peace, jonalbear
You know thinking about this I think that what bothers me is the implication that all of yourself, your soul or whatever, is in your hair. That to me is astonishing because I am an aggregation of so many pieces that are important in my identity. Some of these identity components are physical (my gender for one, I cannot fathom any cross gender anything! Bill is quite correct here. My weight, I am thin and I cannot conceive of being overweight, the thought is abhorrent to me) Other physical attributes I have I do not put much emphasis on or associate them with identity. A different hair color could be interesting but unimportant to my sense of self. Most of what makes up my identity is mental. All of my values and interests, but they are so numerous that taking away one would not cause the immediate cessation of me.
I cannot fathom how all of you could be invested in your hair. Surely you have so many attributes that taking the hair would not cause the immediate cessation of all the other attributes. Is the total accumulation of all that you are that is unrelated to hair less than the part of you that is hair related? If that is true than that would be sad, that sounds very one dimensional and limited. That is not how you come across here anyway.
All of this hair and soul talk rather than reminding me of the obvious Samson story, reminds me of the Lord of the Rings story. Sauron put all of himself into one thing and when that one thing was destroyed he was no more.
This has been a fascinating topic Jason I am glad you brought it up, I learn more about everyone here (including myself) this way.
To paraphrase your post - without my hair I am no more - could be someone else but not ME.
It is a philosophical piint as Jason's post raised but what I have sought to achieve would be gone.
Great reply Chris, I love my hair too, but if I had to cut it to feed my kids - I would, if I lost it through illness but said medicines would cure me then so be it. It is part of my identity, but it is ONLY hair at the end of the day.
Hey Jason....
My self identity is definitely short hair. I never desired to have long hair and love my short military cut and enjoy my trips to the barber.
I do find long hair on men very attractive. That being said, you continue to look great! Keep it growing.
Admiringly,
Jules
Jason
No you are not alone - you are in fact absolutely right. Cutting hair is mutilation of a key part of anyone and their personality. Simply because some mutilation is physically less painful than others does not make it right. Like all parts of the body it may need minor maintenance BUT having a barber cut it with a blade or pair of electric objects is completely wrong.
Duncan
There are some things I would trade my hair for (well, only to save some family members). Other than that, cutting my hair would be like cutting my soul, my personalitty, my own world.
It's really powerfull... The love one can have for it's hair. I agree with your feelings =)
To me, long hair is like one of human natural adorns. It's like the feathers of a peacock. Would you pluck a beautyfull peacock's feathers out? Then don't cut your hair!
=)
Joao
There can be no 'buts'. It would not cut an arm off for my family and nor could I could my hair off.
D
"Identity" is in reality a construct in the brain of each of us, and it is built on the five senses. The heaviest component of it is surely visual. We identify objects, and that includes our concept of ourselves, by what they look like.
Our bodies have bones and blood in them but none of us identify with that part of them because it is not seen. We identify with what IS seen, and for people that is things like skin, clothing, faces, and hair. Also, each of us gives his own weight to each thing seen. Some may give a heavier weight to faces or to body shape, others may give it to hair. These choices are heavily cemented at an early age and they don't after that change much. The "born longhairs" we talk about on here mostly say they have felt like to be whole people they have to have long hair and this has been the case since childhood. To deprive such a person of his hair is like depriving someone who relies heavily on faces of his face.
On the other hand, for people who don't use hair much in their identity constructs, hair length means little. They see getting a haircut as trivial. Tamper with something that IS critical to their identity, such as suggesting they get a sex change operation, and they will bristle, though, just as you do when changes are mentioned regarding your hair. The ease or difficulty of the surgery is not an issue with the identity centers of the brain. The effect on the crucial elements of that brain's identity constructs is.
Each of us tends to think there is a thing in nature such as "identity" and that all the other people in the world share our view of it, but there is no such physical thing and all six billion versions in the brains of the planet's inhabitants are unique. One man may feel strongly about hair length or about religion. The next man may not care diddly-squat about either.
Identity is so crucial to each man's existence that, unless its practice truly harms others, it should be respected. Because identity is so heavily visual, any concern expressed attempting to control the visual appearance of others should be highly suspect in this regard as disrespectful.
Bill
I'm with you here. Hair is part of you. Hair is part of me.
However, it is true that if you were forcible shorn bald, dressed in a plain garment of someone else's choice, made to follow orders to the letter, (insert other de-humanizing treatments), and such, you would still be you but with a large part of you missing. But you would still have that last corner of you that is the minimum measure of you.
Still, touch my hair, touch me. Good way, go ahead. Bad way, stay away. With scissors, I will fight.
I dont call it self-mutilation. I am all for the individual. If I have a wart, and visualize this wart when I think about myself, I dont call it mutilation when it is removed.
After all, its only hair....my hair is EXTREMELY imiportant to me, but I would never consider killing myself for cutting it or chastize anyone for cutting thiers...peace is the name of my game.
peace
clayton
I don't feel that extremely about hair. I mean, if someone pointed a gun in my face and there was nothing I could do, i'd get a hair cut. But in almost any other circumstances, I would never cut my hair.
But I can understand why you feel that way. The amount of care that goes into maintaining hair gives it the status of a full fledged limb.
umm... lol eh... It seems to be a part of me, and I don't know if I will ever cut it (other than the annual trim) but I think you feel a little stronger about it than I do.
Jason ...
Not sure if you saw my posting below as I've been away for a few days... and am not quite sure what to think of your current posting ...
Obviously; you have strong feelings about this... which is fine.. However.. I thnk its important for you to figure out where these feelings originate from ... I know ... deep psychological idea; but probably not a bad thing as all ideas, feelings, beliefs, etc.. have a root cause..
Sorry you've taken the heat for your comments... it sucks sometimes..
As for me; I don't plan on cutting my hair for a really long time.... it'll be interesting to see how my "associates" take to this..
In any case ... Be Blessed...
Tristan
I do understand and respect how you feel concerning your hair. I do know that many men feel this way concerning "forced" circumcision. At least the hair will grow back if cut. I just want everyone to be happy and if a man has long hair then I assume it makes him happy and that's good enough for me. I have never even had anyone suggest that I cut my hair, so, I have been lucky in that regard. I have had a lot of people suggest that I grow my beard back. You know it's not a good sign when people ask you to grow more hair in order to cover your face:(
Hummmmm....What exactly are they telling me?
Jeffrey.
LOL I never thought of it that way! Maybe people like your long hair cause your ears are so ugly (just kidding!)
Actually, Chris, I'm sporting a very attractive pair of ears, provided I don't forget to pluck all the hair out of them. Which reminds me....:)
Jeffrey.
Not to get off-topic here, but the circumcision/hair analogy is a good one. Forced cutting of either a person's hair or removing the forskin without the person's consent is just plain wrong. And yes, some men guard their hair the way they do their foreskins. And to go along with Jason's previous question of why men habitually cut their hair, with no though of letting nature takes it's course; why do men get circumsized at all? What's the point/purpose?
As an intersexed female, I am opposed to any form of genital mutilation, and I consider circumcision to be just that. A male penis has a foreskin for a purpose. Slowly, the world where this was once universally practiced, has become enlightened, and the practise is gradually receding. Europeans think us Americans are nuts, because most of Europe does not practice this barbaric ritual. While the numbers of infant circumcisions have dropped, many obstetricians and pediatricians still recommend it to the parents.
Native American cultures have never bought into this bizarre practice (yeah for them!), but the tin god doctors have managed to line their pockets with the gold they make from ripping foreskins off the penises of helpless infants, after brainwashing parents into thinking it is 'healthy' (I cough on that word) to do so. It is a purely money-making industry, just as the hair industry is with it's preference for promoting frequent trimming/cutting as healthy.
The foreskin is a covering for the penis, just as the hair is a covering for the head. The foreskin will shed and renew itself, just like the rest of the skin does. Hair sheds and renews itself too, but the process is much slower, so for aesthetic and practical reasons, we do things to control the amount of growth that is visible, by removing it from out bodies, and trimming from our heads.
Nature gave us hair, to adorn and protect us. So why not let it grow? Are not our bodies and our souls entwined in some way? Jason's question of why cut off the hair that beautifies and ornaments the body, mystifies me as well as him. I see hair as a gift from God, a gift of nature. The uncircumsized penis is a beautiful thing too. I guess I prefer 'the natural male' with nice long hair and uncircumsized. But sadly, my ob ject of male beauty is not everyone's.
Carol
PS Jeffrey, have you decided to grow the beard back?
maybe you just look cool with a beard, nothing more than that!
My father, who was an ex-Navy guy, forced me and my 4 brothers to have short, military-style haircuts all during my chidhood and teen years (including mandatory buzz cuts every summer)... In fact, he cut our hair himself (and believe me, he was no talented hair "stylist"). Originally he stated this was to save $$; but I come from an upper middle class upbringing, --- and my step mom has even stated that this was his way of keeping "control" over us kids.
I have HORRIBLE memories of haircuts from childhood. And I felt totally powerless about it, --- I was given absolutely NO choice in how my hair could look (and this was during the '60s, when guys first started growing their hair long). Can you blame me for leaving home at age 18, even though it cost me missing out on finishing my college education? There were other abuse issues I had with my father; but, we won't get into that here or now...
Once I left home, though, gradually (over much time, and some therapy as well) I mentally and emotionally broke free enough of my painful past to be at least able to recognize that not "everyone" on the planet viewed haircuts in a negative way, --- in fact, some guys even ENJOY haircuts (although still notme - lol)!!
I'm more interested in defending someone's right to choose to have their hair as THEY want it, than to try to "convert" a shorthair into a longhair (although I admit that at times, I secretly cheer everytime a former shorthair becomes committed new longhair, since long hair on guys is still in the minority - lol)....
Hope my answer has helped!
- Ken
Hi Jason,
I menat to say, "Hi Jason" in this section; NOT Iunder my name column (lol)!!
- Ken
It is the way you feel which I can appreciate. I personally, am not attached to my hair that much, but I do feel that some how I wouldn't be quite the same if I didn't have my long hair. It's definatley a big quirk or an eccentricity that wouldn't be there if I cut it.
Neil
Hey Brother: Out of the blue at work the other day someone said (in jest?) that we should do a fund raiser and everyone who brought money could cut a piece of my hair. The other version of that (yes I've heard it before) is that the principal (or some other AUTHORITY FIGURE) would shave my head (why not theirs..?)if enough $$$ was raised. So why is it that people assume I would want to "mutilate" (to use your words) myself for their pleasure. And why is hair always the "prize." Why not paint my face red, or kiss a pig? For some reason cutting one's hair is taken as a frivolous act. They assume our hair is worthless, to be discarded, expendable. Actually I take it as a veiled threat, or at least a subliminal message that I SHOULD cut my hair. Along those lines, a friend and colleague took a pair of scissors once and got behind me like she was going to cut off my ponytail. I freaked...jumped up and moved away. I knew she wasn't going to do it but it was WAY to close for comfort. She still "teases" me about my reaction. Don't they get it. Our hair is a part of us. Growing and wearing it long is not coincidental or by happen stance; quite the opposite! It is a thoughtful, deliberate act. My hair is ME as much as my politics are ME, the way I relate to people is ME, my personality is ME, my spirituality is ME. Any maybe I'll tell the next person who suggests I cut my hair to FUCK OFF! (Principal excluded if I want to keep my job..LOL) Bruce'ster
Dude, I totally get it....thank you! It's nice to feel like one is not alone. Our hair is us....not to be fucked with....
no text
nt
Hey Jason just thought I'd add my two pennies. No you are not alone as I do cherish my hair and if I didn't then I wouldn't have had my hair long for over twenty years! It wasn't until I graduated high school that I began my longhair journey and its been an interesting one at that.Just thinking of all the different lengths I had and now deciding to go for broke as I hadn't had a trim in two years.It looks as if waist length is all I'll get but I'm fine with that.I could care less what others think of my hair when I go out in public.Fortunately when I do decide to get a trim and only a trim I have a trusted stylist I can go to that won't make me nervous when the scissors get close!LOL.Anyway I like your dedication to longhair and hopefully it will never waver.Longhair for LIFE:))) Mark
I differ from Jason in making a distinction between my hair and my life. If given that forced choice by a compassionate conservative government, I would allow the haircut, but I would dedicate myself to the oblteration of the person who gave the orders, even tho I am a peaceful, and at least, I hope, a gentle person.
Send this on to homeland security.
C.
They now have the legal authority to spy on all of our communications thanks to the "help" of our newly elected "Democrats" so I am sure they got this message without any help from us.
Nice to know other people are as fed up with this crap as I am, but horrible we have to watch this nightmare continue. I really had hoped that with the Democrats in control of Comgress we might see some improvement but I cannot see any change on anything that really matters :(
Damn. They're going to find out I have long hair. I walked all over half of Washington D.C. with you with it, I've told everyone on the Internet who cares to look, and I think all the blasted neighbors who have seen me have figured it out, but I was really hoping Homeland Security would not discover that.
If you put "longhair in San Francisco" into Google, one of my pages comes up 16th. Above all, we must make sure Homeland Security never finds out about Google.
Bill
Keep in mind that the government is inept at collecting information, and they are even more inept at using it. There is so much information out there that they are swamped.
When the Kim family was lost in Oregon, numerous governmental agencies couldn't find them after many days. They were found by a cell phone technician and a businessman who owned his own helicopter. Both were working "on their own time".
For years the FBI maintained "clip files" on activists. They would cut out newspaper articles and stuff them in an activist's file. One day someone pointed out a lot more could be found out by simply going to Google....
Some people live their lives in a mode of constant damage control, trying to hide facts here and there by living schizophrenic lives. Like you, I long ago just decided to be fully open about who I am and let the chips fall where they may. If anyone finds anything they see as bad stuff on either of us, it will be amidst a swarm of the good stuff, so why should we care?
Bill
No, you are not alone! I fully agree with you although I would
like to live long enough to kill whoever cut my hair.
I just never realized you were so militant.
I don't think you are alone. But you are definitely a minority within a larger minority. Hair has a spiritual aspect for you, thus you guard it in a way that most would not. I know many have compared hair to nails, it's like comparing apples and oranges. While both fruit, they are not the same. Neither are hair and nails. Hair is meant to adorn the body, it is a covering provided by nature. Nails have a practical purpose, and some do use them as an adorment, by shaping, painting, etc. But hair itself is an adornment, just as it is.
Not everyone is going to see eye-to-eye with you. They don't identify with their hair the way you do. I sense you felt somewhat alone, and wondered as to why others didn't feel as you. You certainly are not alone, but you cannot expect that others are on the same journey as you, and have the same hair goals and beliefs.
Hair has certainly become a spiritual thing for me, and is connected with an inner spirituality. Would I rather die than have it cut? Faced with a choice between long hair and death, would any of us really know how we would react? You can grow your hair back, you can't resurrect yourself.
I'm sorry that your religious and family environment was so harsh as to make you feel that cutting hair is a form of bodily mutilation. You, my friend, are carrying a lot of pain. I understand that when one has been unjustly imprisoned, then finally freed from that imprisonment, that one would prefer to die than being imprisoned (shackled by the hair shears) again.
This is a part of your upbringing. I understand this, but not everyone else does. For you, a haircut would be as painful as removing an appendage. The pain is emotional rather than physical, but emotional pain can hurt terribly, and the scars last far longer. Some have dismissed your pain, perhaps have been a little harsh. They do not see the connection between hair and your identity, as you do. Don't fault them for that, they didn't walk in your shoes, so it is hard to empathize entirely with your feelings.
If anything, yours is a cautionary tale to parents and authority figures who unecessarily enforce hair restrictions on minors; especially those who force haircuts, use them as punishment, ridicule the youth's hair, or even disown their own offspring as being rebellious.
Finally I offer this, with your choice of strong words (mutilation, hair=soul, f#ck off), it's obvious that you are perhaps stunned, even hurt, by the mixed reaction to your prior post. You felt alone. You are NOT alone, and you have heard the minority voices who understand your drive. I hope you find peace within yourself, and can someday heal from the past abuse. Because that is what it was, abuse. Your hair IS a part of you, a beautiful part, and all of those parts together make you whole. Once a part is missing, the wholeness is lost, and what is left is broken.
Cyberhugs for you. (((((JASON))))) Feel better.
Carol
After reading and pondering all of these posts? I'm hoping you are feeling a bit better.
Carol
Hi Jason,
I think you've a valid talking point, and agreement or disagreement doesn't negate the value of your feeling. Just as what you feel is sacred to you, the absense of concurrence makes it no less valid. As you well remember, back last year when I had it forced upon me to cut my hair, I did so and regretted it keenly. Yes it felt like a desecration of my templar-self. The cut hurt me emotionally, but I think death would be far worse. That's just me. Perhaps now that I've been able to regrow it with the spectre of force cutting removed, I've grown less resolved. However, I'm not entirely sure if non-corporeal spirits have long hair or not. And, if one is just dead altogether, then one wouldn't know the difference anyway.
i don't mean to be critical, but it seems to me that your statement is hyperbole. After all, as I recall, you cut your hair quite short a few years ago after pressure from some combination of family, friends and/or church. These were obviously somewhat short of death. Who is to say the similar factors won't lead you to cut your hair short again? Long hair is great, but, as your own life experience has demonstrated, hair is just hair.
Too many people here take hair WAY too seriously. Choose death over a haircut? Hair isn't even permanent; it grows back. I don't like having short hair but short hair DEFINITELY has it's advantages. No maintenance, and it's far better for physical activity. I worked this summer at factories and my hair was a pain in the ass. I would definitely cut it if that was my choice of occupation, full time.
Seriously...it's just hair. Your identity is who you are not the hair that grows on your head. If your identity was your hair then you would be a very shallow person.