new thread
Gentlemen (and ladies who may visit here)
I have lurked around this and some other hair related sites for the past couple of months but this is my first post to this board. I'll explain in more detail below, but the reason I am posting here is that I want to ask the question of whether I am being a bad mother and damaging my two sons in some way or not. The reason for posting on this site is that I figure from what I have seen that more guys visit here than any other site and I can get some feedback from guys who have grown up with long hair all their life and they can tell me if my handling of my sons is right or wrong. I am prepared for positive and negative comments and people can email me in private if they want. But I will state up front that I believe I am a good mom and I am doing right by my kids.
As background I will explain that I have two sons and one daughter. My daughter is the eldest and she is 14. I have one son who is nearly 13 and the other who has just turned 11. My hair is around butt length and we are all a long hair family. My daughter has hair down to her mid back. My eldest son has hair that is just below his shoulders and my other son has hair that is down to the bottom of his shoulder blades. All my children loved having long hair and perhaps I have been a good role model to them. I have never forced my children to have long hair, but I have always encouraged it since I think it is a wonderful experience for them to have.
I have always insisted that my children take good care of their hair. I have taught them all how to wash it, condition it, comb it, brush it, detangle it, snip their own split ends, tie it up at night, basically take care of it for themselves and be responsible for their own hair. I have told them that if they let the condition of their hair deteriorate through neglect then they will have to cut it, since I don't think it is acceptable for them to have long hair which looks in poor condition. They understand these rules and are all willing to live by them since they all want their long hair.
I help them with it as much as they ask and I have always taken the initiative and taught them how to look after their hair and get the best out of it. Perhaps this is where you will see I am writing this post from in a moment, but my sons have always grown up seeing myself and my daughter take very good care of their hair and it is perfectly natural for them to want to look after it to the same degree when they see this and have grown up with it. As far as they are concerned hair is not an issue of boys and girls look after it differently, if you want long hair then you have to work at it.
However three separate incidents in the last two weeks have led me to question my own judgement. Before I describe those, I should add that like all children (and even adults) sometimes wearing long hair loose can be either impractical or just a pain. Therefore, all of my children are comfortable with wearing their hair loose (as they do a lot of the time) or tied up or back in some way (be it a ponytail or braid or secured with a hair claw or a head band, whichever seems appropriate for the occassion). Most of the time this is at home, but they will sometimes wear a braid outside the house for example. Additionally, as with adults, my children like to have fun with their hair and play with it and be creative with it. In other words to spell it out, I style it for them, or they style each others in different styles taken from tv and magazines etc. To be even more blunt (honest??) I will admit that 100% of these styles are usually based on female icons. The reason for this being that when it comes to having 'fun' with hair and creating different styles, there aren't really many good male icons around to use. Perhaps one exception is that I have done a sumo style top knot on my sons hair before. Such styling has included in the past various braids, updo's, roller sets, styling wands, crimpers, buns, etc etc. The children pick out the styles mostly, but sometimes I will too. But this is a fun event. None of the children have ever indicated that they don't want to do this, but as someone pointed out to me just recently maybe they don't want to disappoint me.
The three incidents that I will describe happened in just the past couple of weeks. Firstly, my mother came for a visit from overseas and stayed with us for a week. She had not seen the boys in four years and to be honest she did nothing but criticize the boys for the length of their hair from the moment she arrived until the moment she left. She said that I was a derelict mother for letting them look like that and questioned what their father (divorced) would think. She insulted the boys and called them sissys and tried to goad them by saying that she would have to buy them ribbons for their hair for their birthdays; one of them actually said that might be nice - I think he was being sarcastic, but it made me laugh to see the look on my moms face. I tried to play it low key with the boys while my mom was here and said that they should not wear their hair in any way that might make the situation worse. But in the end I am upset because that just seemed to confuse them and be at odds with the way they have been reared. Now, instead of thinking of whatever they have been doing as natural irrespective of gender, they now think that they are doing things that are feminine and it makes them feel awkward.
The second incident happened a few days later. A friend of my daughters was visiting and she saw my older son braiding his brothers hair and made a smart comment. My daughter told her off, but both my sons heard it and they stopped and went separate ways. My older son later asked me why the girl had made a comment and apparently my younger son also asked his sister the same thing. Following the conversation she ended up braiding his hair, but she told me that he was not as into it as he normally is. The weird thing is that some of her friends have watched her braid my older sons hair before and they actually thought it was fun in a nice way whereas girls seem to think it is strange if the boys do each others hair.
The third incident happened last Saturday and maybe I am at fault for expecting society to be as open minded as I am. It was my older sons birthday and I had asked him what he wanted us to do as a family. He asked if we could go out to have a meal and see a movie (usual stuff), but before that he asked if we could all get our hair done in a salon that I take the children to for their trims. He had actually asked me this before my mom came for a visit. I had asked him what he meant and what he wanted and sure enough he explained that he meant that he would like us to all get our hair styled in different ways as a family as a fun afternoon thing. I was a bit hesitant, but I went in and talked it over with our regular stylist who is also the owner of the salon and she agreed to take us all in at the same time and both she and another stylist would work on the four of us together. She did explain that she had some pre-existing appointments for the other two stylists otherwise we could have essentially had overlapping appointments. I warned her about what my son had in mind, I mean that I know if he asked her for an updo she might think it strange. However, she assured me that she knew this was a special occassion and a bit of fun and she and the other stylists would not have a problem with it - we might have been the biggest family ever to have done this, but she said it was not the first time she had had such as request from a guy. I know this is getting long, but this is kind of therapy for me as well :).
So we went in on Saturday and had our appointment. It started out really well. I let my older son and daughter go first since my younger son wanted to go with me. The two stylists got into it and showed them styling books and magazines and they each picked out a style. They then washed their hair and did a slight trim and then both of them had roller sets. While they were under the dryers, my younger son and I then got our hair done. While I also had a set, my younger son preferred a braid since he likes them. So the stylist instead of just doing one braid on his hair, showed him what he looked like with a French braid, fishbone braid and an inverse braid and asked him which he preferred. He liked the fishbone most of all, so she re-did that about the time that my son and daughter came out from under the dryer. While I was still under the dryer I watched some of the other clients coming in and out. Both my older son and daughter had their hair combed out. My daughter actually wanted her hair loose at the back but they pinned it up on top from the sides. My son meanwhile asked for his to be styled in something that looked a bit like a Gibson girl do (he asked for it but it was meant to be fun remember). My younger son was sitting watching this with his hair now braided the way he wanted it. Anyway while under the dryer I started to see a lady pointing or gesturing towards my oldest son and shaking her head. I could not hear what was being said, but in the end I peered out from the dryer and could make out through the noise that she was making some terrible comments to the stylist and him. He looked red in the face and as though he was going to cry. I jumped out and starting calling out to the woman and we got into an argument. She accused me of being a terrible mother and poisoning my boys and that there will be probably long term pyschological consequences etc etc. I said that she did not know or understand what she was talking about. Eventually she left and the owner and other stylists (all of them) tried to re-assure me and my children that the woman had been very rude. We even got a nice comment from one customer, but the other lady just looked down and embarassed. They did finish off my son's and daughters hair. I was last but I just asked them to finger comb out my set as quickly as they could since I could see the children wanted to leave. Sure enough, they all wanted to go straight back home rather than have the meal and see the movie. We got pizza on the way back. It was quiet at home, the day had been ruined. My younger son kept his braid in the whole night and the next day, but my older son took his updo apart within a few hours of being home. Neither boy really talked about it that evening, but the next day the older son asked my daughter what she thought of him wearing his hair in the Gibson girl style. She told him she liked it, but she told me that he liked it too, but he never thought anyone would shout at him for the way he wore his hair.
My children, well my boys at least, now seem to be very uncertain about what people think about them or how they will react. We had a few quiet evenings this week, but last night both boys asked me to braid their hair during the early evening. Then all three children asked me about what we are going to do for Halloween. About a month ago the children had decided that they wanted to dress up as Cinderella (my daughter) and the ugly sisters (the two boys) in full girls attire with hair and make up just for fun. Now my two boys and my daughter are asking if I still want to go through with it. What should I say? This had all been planned for fun and we have been designing and making their costumes, modifying some of the daughters old clothes and choosing some hairstyles. I was even going to color the two boys hair with temporary dye. This seems a time of lost innocence.
So my question to anyone who has read all this is what should I do about Halloween and the future? My children are looking to me for advice. I asked them what they wanted to do, but they have asked me back what I think they should do. As my mother says should I even make my two boys cut their hair even though they want to keep it long. Should I just discourage the hair styling games?
Like I said at the top, I am looking for advice. Guys if you ever went through this please tell me that you never got screwed up. Mom's/sisters if you have any experience of this or know how it will turn out please let me know.
My thinking is that I have done nothing wrong and neither have my children. I think we should go on as planned and continue doing so. I think its everyone else that is wrong here. I am prepared to defend myself, but I guess if everyone tells me I am wrong, then I had better listen to you all.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
Shelley
Shelley, you are a fantastic mom.
Don't ever think that you are not, simply because of what some conservative, ignorant fools in the general public say.
From what you've written, it is clear that you show abundant, unconditional love to all your children. What more could a mother give her children?
Your sons are highly impressionable at this age, you need to constantly affirm and build up your boys. That bitch at the salon will have hurt your eldest's self esteem especially. You need to help build that back up in him.
Teach your boys to ignore derogatory comments from anyone in the public. Building up their self esteem will help it to just roll off their backs. Show them that thousands of women around the world would be jealous of their hair, show them this message board and the hundreds of men who all want long hair like your boys are so lucky to have.
If you foster a feeling of pride in their hair, it will help greatly for them in ignoring the idiots of the world.
It's all about confidence. Your daughter and yourself need to constantly tell them how great their hair looks. More importantly, your boys need to believe it looks great. If they know to themselves and truely believe it looks great, they will simply laugh at anyone who tries to tell them otherwise.
Hope this helps :)
Shelley, your boys are at that age where what "other people think", particularly peers, suddenly mean a lot more than what members of the immediate family think. You may want to address that issue with them as much as, if not more than, the other issues such as what you see as "family fun".
It is apparent your boys are not completely comfortable with the feminine stuff. Unless they have a strong feminine gender identity and really need and want to pursue it, it might be best with boys of their age to put that on the back burner. Without a strong feminine drive, boys that age are not generally going to want to look girly, particularly once that situation is brought to their attention.
There are several macho styles for male longhairs - I am puzzled why in that very long post I don't see any encouragement or celebration at all of those styles with your boys. Such styles are something that most boys in the position of yours would want to discuss. The best person to take on this task would likely be a masculine adult male longhair friend they look up to. They need feedback on this whole situation from men, not from you, their sisters, or their grandmother.
Your whole discussion looked to me very much like a "girls having fun" event - I didn't see anyone encouraging your daughter to look like a Hell's Angel - her gender is being considered and respected. Your boys might feel a lot better if you let them know they'd receive the same consideration and respect for theirs.
Shelley,
I think you are doing a wonderful job and encourage you to continue as you were. Your attitude and behavior should be a model for other moms.
I grew up in the 40s and early 50s. From the time I was small I looked at women with fancy hairdos and wished I could do the same thing. During those years it was totally unthinkable for a boy or a man to do such things. I was in my early 30s when it became fashionable for boys and men to let their hair grow. I jumped at the chance to do it. However, I did not let it get very long at that time.
I was in my late thirties when I had the courage to go to a hair salon to get my hair done. My wife was supportive which helped a lot. It took a lot of courage, but with a friendly hair stylist (who are family still goes to) I tried a variety of styles including styles requiring a set. I felt the feeling of relief to finally be able to do something that I had yearned to do for so long. After a while I settled on an afro style and wore my hair that way for about 10 years.
Even though most men are back to short hair, about seven years ago I decided to let my hair grow as long as possible. It is now 30 inches long. My same friendly hair stylist now gives me various updos. One of my favorite is a French twist. I am pleased to say no one has made any negative comments about all these hairdos I try. I am in a university environment which probably helps.
As to your possibly causing your boys to grow up in a kinky way, I feel as though your assistance to them will do just the opposite. If they suppressed their desires for all types of hairdos, it would cause internal stress in them which over time can cause health problems. Consider my case, which is just such a situation. Knowing for many years that I could not (at least according to society's rules) wear my favorite hairdos, it did indeed cause stress in me.
Another thing I have always liked since I was a child is long nails and nail polish. This is more unusual for men than long hair. Two years ago I got the courage to go to a nail salon for acrylic nails. During these past two years my nails have been long and constantly polished.
Now that I have been doing the two things that I always wanted to do, I definitely am less stressed than when I used to have a pent-up feeling about wanting these things.
If it will help your boys any, tell them I like to do the same thing that they are doing, and it works out very well for me. If they can stay the course until they are adults I think the snide remarks will diminish. Outspoken people will make negative comments, as what you heard, to children, but are less likely to do so to an adult (that is, right to his face). We can do nothing about comments made behind our backs, and we should ignore them.
Currently, I am working with many university students (male and female) who come to me voluntarily to work with me. If they hated my nails and hair I'm sure they would stay away. The younger generation is much more tolerant of variations within individuals than is the older generation.
As for Halloween, let the boys do what their hearts desire. Be helpful to them, dress them up, put on makeup, give them fancy hairdos. Overall they will have a really good time. A snide remark might be made to them, but soothing remarks from mom will help. By being themselves (and we recognize that their desires are in no way violating the rights of others) they will be more stable adults. Unkind remarks have eroded their confidence. We might draw a parallel to the terrorists destruction of the World Trade Center. If we go crawl in a whole the terrorists have won. As President Bush has stated, we must get on with our tasks of being Americans! If the boys let a few unkind individuals intimidate them, then the unkind individuals have won. This must not happen. Hairdos are a personal choice that we value as Americans, we cannot tolerate bigotry.
I wish you the best. If it would help your boys at all, they are welcome to email me.
John
Professor Emeritus of Electrical Engineering at Iowa State University.
(I include this because I want you to know that what I have told you is true, and that I am not going to hide behind annonymity).
I would say listen to your son's closely. It doesn't sound like you are a bad mom, but it does sound like some masculine influence or role model could help the boy's relate to other men.
If your guys want to keep their hair long and style their hair in girlish ways, then let them. On the flip side, the minute they come to you and want to seriously get their hair cut short in a traditional man's haircut, let them do that as well, providing that is what they want to do (teach them the two week rule).
As long as they are not hurting anyone, let them have hair freedom.
Hi Shelley, I would feel most lucky if I were to be your son. From your post, I could clearly see that you're not an unreasonable mum. In fact, you are one whom showered unconditional love and care for your children.
Shelley, it's a matter of choice and preference. From nowhere in your post I did see your sons dislike their long hair that you've painstaking took cared for. They are simply too young to resist harsh comments from foolish and insensitive stereotypists. Therefore, it is your job to assure them that what they're doing isn't shameful.
First, you have to have commitment in your belief. Deep inside, you believe that your love for long hair (both for yourself and towards your children) is strong, it is part of you and your family's tradition. This love is not a crime, nor it is an incessant abuse or poison which could corrupt. It is just another love for a part of our own body. We exercise full rights to have control over what we want to do to our body, nobody can overrule this right, as long as it shows no detriment to the society as a whole.
Second, you could try developing family cohesion (with regards to long hair). At the end of the day, it boils down to unity in thoughts that could put others back to shame, in their attempt to shame yourselves. It is this synchronisation within yourselves that could effectively dispel disagreements from the public to your family values.
Third, be less sensitive to unreasonable comments. If you feel what you're doing is right, you have no duty to explain it to outsiders. Remember that it takes 2 hands to clap and arguments might not always swing into your favour. Once it's not, your values might be shaken by it. This is through no fault of the original belief but due to the corruption of outsiders.
Finally, you should establish effective communication between you and your children. Try to understand what they like and what they don't. Although they're young, they too have the ability to express their preferences and problems. From such understanding, you could then decide what's the best for them. You should prepare yourself for the worst scenario that they eventually (gasp!) prefer the conventional short hair (through no coersion of external forces). Even if that happens, I truly believe that from your love and understanding towards them, you will surely make the most appropriate decision.
Shelley, if I were to catch you and your children in the streets, I would surely pause and enjoy the rare and wonderful sight I've just seen. And if the situation is right, you will definitely have my most sincere compliments and blessings.
The road is not easy and what you need is perseverance. Tread on and you have my support.
Best Wishes,
Jin
Hi Jin - as usual your comments are well considered. Havent seen an update of your progress for a while and wondered how you were going. i have just made it back to pony tail length after haveing 12 inches cut off late last year.
Hi Growinitout, thanks for your kind compliments to my reply. I personally thought it was overly longish for comfort. Thanks for having the patience to go through it.
Yes, I would definitely like to post my hair pics again but would like it to gain a little bit more length before the next posting. My hair's currently 18 inches and it's near midback. I'll post my pics again once it reaches that length.
Congratulations on the achievement of ponytail length. Keep growin and have a head of awesome long hair!
Cheers,
Jin
Shelley,
Thanks for sharing your story. Sounds to me like you're a cool mom!
Your mother was completely out of line. What would have been appropriate is for her, first, to *pleasantly* ask the kids if their long hair was their own preference or something you were making them have against their will. Second, when she found out they liked it, she should have talked with you *privately* about whatever concerns she might have had. (This message board provides plenty of evidence of long hair not posing a threat to a man's ability to be a mature individual who can get and keep good employment, and contribute to society.) Third, she could - and should - then have bit her tongue rather than undermining your authority and values in front of your children!
I don't know if your specific disagreement is specifically mentioned, but you can take a look at collections from noted advice givers such as Ann and Abby, and Miss Manners, to get encouragement about just how far beyond good taste your mom had gone in her obnoxiousness. I think you should politely set some rules for her dealing with you and your kids in the future - such as, if she has a concern with how your are raising them, talk to you directly instead of trying to make you look bad in their eyes; and learn to understand that in today's world, it's impolite to assume anything about a young man's character based solely on the length of his hair (that one, I'm sure, is directly addressed in one of Miss Manners's books).
If your Mom was to investigate, she would quickly discover that long hair does not significantly hinder a young man's chance of being a success in school, socially, and at work. She is either carrying around a judging voice of what she thinks someone else would say badly about her to have long-haired grandsons, or she is afraid they are going to be confused about their gender. Neither one seems a realistic response to the situation.
You should talk with your kids about how you believe their grandmother was not being fair to any of you, that she was rude and unkind when she didn't have to be, and that despite that you still think that the kids should enjoy whatever hair style they would like to have as long as they keep it clean and neat. You could also tell them that you're asking your mom to pass any criticisms of them through you because she is too harsh in expressing her views without consideration of their feelings.
You don't mention the age of your daughter's friend. Your sons are at an age when they are very keenly sensitive to what others think of them, whether or not those thoughts are justified. The comment might have had to do with the friend wanted to show her own cleverness rather than with anything about the boys. In any event, remind them that sometimes kids (and adults) say things that seem cruel that they might not have even meant.
Also it's unfortunately true that some people just are mean to others no matter what one does. This may just show that the person being mean is having a bad day and is thoughtless, or they could even have a poor character that is inconsiderate to what effects their actions will have on others. In this kind of situations, the mean person blames the victim -- but anybody else who was around at the time would have got the same mean treatment. I'm sure you know all this but have you talked it over with your kids? This was definitely the situation with the person at the salon.
Are these isolated incidents, or are you in a town where this kind of situation is typical?
As for Halloween, I think you should go ahead with whatever would be fun for the kids. Tell them they should do what makes them feel happy about the way they look and good about themselves. Remind them that no matter what they do, there will be someone somewhere who will complain but this doesn't mean they actually did anything to deserve the complaint. Remind them that these incidents are not typical of what they experience most days (at least I hope not). If they continue to enjoy having their long hair, there is not any good reason for a group of obnoxious and rude people to run their enjoyment.
In any event, the more critical point is that they should not make any major changes while they feel upset. They should wait until they are over upset and back to feeling good about life. Only then should they decide if they want shorter hair. They should know that whatever they decide, you will continue to be there for them!
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Chris
Shelley, I wish my mother and sister were like you and your daughter. Instead, they merely tolerate my long hair and are shorthairs themselves. Wish there were more mothers like you.
About your mother and her rude comments, she may still be thinking that it's the '50s and guys should have short hair. From what I gather, guys from the '20s to the '50s were frowned upon to have long hair. So, she may be stuck in a completely different generation. My own mother is a little bit this way in that she much prefers that I have my hair collar-length in the back and short on the sides and the top, instead of what I am going for right now, which is mid-back and all one length. She also hates the fact that when I wear a ponytail, which is about 90% of the time (more comfortable that way for me), I use a scrunchy to pull the hair back with. Now, I usually don't wear bright pink (in fact, I don't have one in that color), so it really doesn't look feminine, but she doesn't see the reason for my wearing one, which is that it doesn't damage the hair and doesn't make it uncomfortable for me. Instead thinks I'm trying to be feminine. She also thinks that everyone is pointing me out and laughing at me for this, yet, every single person (except for two 14-year old boys) haven't done that and at the same time are usually complimenting me on my hairstyle.
In my case, I may be helped with the fact that I do have facial hair, so I think that your sons will be less likely to be pointed out once, they, too, have some facial hair...
In any case, don't buckle under the forces of these old-school people. I wish you luck...
-John, from Duvall, WA.
Forgot to add one other interesting tidbit about myself. I am a very conservative republican, and at the same time, much prefer long hair and wish my own family would pull their heads out of their a**es and go long too.
-John, from Duvall, WA.
Shelley -
Hon, you seem to be doing a great job. The very fact that you take the time to come here and ask the question shows that you are caring and thoughtful.
Keep on doing just what you're doing and your kids will grow up knowing that their mother is someone who cares about them and who respects their right to be individuals.
Saul
YOU ARE A SUPER MOM!!! Your Mom (who should stay overseas), your daughter's friend, and other people who can't accept your son's long hair are behind the times (in the 20th century) and they are wrong. You are the 21st century Mom, and I agree with Saul that you are doing a great job. Keep it up!!! You are showing your sons that you are open minded and non-sexist. You are also a good role model for your daughter. Advise your sons not to let anybody dictate what hairstyle they feel they should have just because of their sex and continue to be supportive of their long hair, especially if they want it. I wish I had a supportive Mom like you. My Mom harasses me once in a while even though I'm a grown man. I won't cut my long hair for anybody, and anytime anyone laughs at me because of the hair, I ignore it. Tell your sons to overcome adversity just like I do - it makes me stronger willed to keep my long hair no matter what. My prayers are with you and your children.
Longhairedman
No Shelley, you haven't done ANYTHING WRONG!
In fact, by encouraging your children to be "different", you are giving them the strength to be "leaders", rather than "followers". Most kids that get into trouble do so because they're "followers".
I'm 3 weeks shy of my 41st birthday - and I've been "different" one way or another all my life. And I have the healthiest attitude (IMHO) possible - if "you" like and accept me as I am, great, we'll be good friends. If not, too bad, I'll just laugh at you and go my merry way and not be troubled by you. This can be a very hard thing to instill in children. My parents succeeded somehow...
I only grew my hair out when I was 38, it now is maintained at shoulderblade length. At 40, I pierced both ears. Before I did either of these things, I carefully researched "society's" attitudes towards them. Not that I cared for it's own sake, but so that I'd know what to expect and be able to deal with it. It makes for an interesting time. I particularly enjoy "converting" someone who pre-judges me on my appearance, then finds out that I'm NOT AT ALL what they expected. This works particularly well with Republicans - they are amazed that I'm a Republican too!
Keep 'em guessing is my motto!
Warm Regards,
-Zorba
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
Re: Is this wrong? Am I a bad mom?/LHR
open-minded. Maybe even beyond open-minded when it comes to my
appearance. MG
Doing Great I think, too!
This may sound stupid, but a lot of the peer comments depend on your environment. I grew up in Southern California, On the beach, as a surfer. This are is very tollerant on hair length for boys. I remember that as a basketball player the coaches required my hair to be short. So I was never allowed to have long hair and participate. But i still remember a player named Corey who was a surfer and a great BBall player and had long hair who chose not to play Basketball in high school because he prefered to surf. He had a pony tail when playing that was down to the middle of his back. Never stopped him from playing well. Of course women often have long hair while playing - and it doesn't effect their play either! Out of college, I grew my hair long, and though I never experimented with many styles i always enjoyed my should legth hair. Now 45 I'm working on getting my wife to accept me growing my hair out again - a very uphill battle I will probably lose because I care more for her than my hair length. She grew up in the mid west(Iowa) where the attitude growing up were very prejudiced against "Long Hair Hippies". She thinks I'm having a mid-life crisis or something!
Hair is Hair. Our culture is generally tolerant of neat polite young men, long hair or not! - even more evident in today's post 9/11 world.
Maybe you are - so what!
My wife is from the mid-west also, and she has no problems with my long hair! She knows that I must be true to myself.
-Zorba
I often think that "mid-life-crisis" is a term to describe the discomfort that some feel (often our wives and mothers) when men stop doing what everyone (often wives and mothers and religion) expect us to do.
Robert
Shelly:
I can only echo the thoughts of everyone who has posted here.
You may want to intorduce your sons to this site. There is a lot of male-based support here (as you can already see).
Let' em have fun.
Shelley you sound like a great mom - regardless of the hair issues. Personally I have always said the same thing to my kids (now a fraction older than yours) - grwo it if you want to but keep it neat and tidy.
I wish I had the same opportunity to choose as your sons did. I support you but I suggest that when discussing these types of things with your kids (prejudice in society) that you make sure your kids are aware that these type of people DO exist in our society (along with racists, anti-semites, ageists, etc). My children are of mixed race (we call them 'doubles' not 'halves'), but when living in certain areas I have been frank with them about racisim and helped them prepare. This also means tha tthey feel comfotable talking about it with me if such incidents ever arise.
As a guy I can tell you that I really love having it french braided too, and I think that it looks great and is just as accepted in most (underline one) areas of society as ponytails. As you progress further into feminine styles that approval drops so your committment and self confidence (and support) must strengthen.
In short, talk about it - always leave the choices open to your kids(and you must annunciate this - not just say that they never ask), and always explain about the reality that exists in the world so that their choices can be considered. Finally, your boys should (almost?) be of an age where sexual linkages with hair and and sexuality will become more apparent - this is the most important time to be there with open discussion on the issue.
Good luck Shelley - I hope your boys choose long - I know I have now.
Shelley you sound like a great mom - regardless of the hair issues. Personally I have always said the same thing to my kids (now a fraction older than yours) - grwo it if you want to but keep it neat and tidy.
I wish I had the same opportunity to choose as your sons did. I support you but I suggest that when discussing these types of things with your kids (prejudice in society) that you make sure your kids are aware that these type of people DO exist in our society (along with racists, anti-semites, ageists, etc). My children are of mixed race (we call them 'doubles' not 'halves'), but when living in certain areas I have been frank with them about racisim and helped them prepare. This also means tha tthey feel comfotable talking about it with me if such incidents ever arise.
As a guy I can tell you that I really love having it french braided too, and I think that it looks great and is just as accepted in most (underline one) areas of society as ponytails. As you progress further into feminine styles that approval drops so your committment and self confidence (and support) must strengthen.
In short, talk about it - always leave the choices open to your kids(and you must annunciate this - not just say that they never ask), and always explain about the reality that exists in the world so that their choices can be considered. Finally, your boys should (almost?) be of an age where sexual linkages with hair and and sexuality will become more apparent - this is the most important time to be there with open discussion on the issue.
Good luck Shelley - I hope your boys choose long - I know I have now.
Shelley,
I'm a 30-year old man. I began growing my hair the day I graduated High School 11 years ago. During that time, I've met with a plethora of compliments and insults from people of nearly every walk of life. I've also observed one very common characteristic among anyone who's ever criticized me for having long hair (outside of my own family):
None of them knew me from Adam; nor I, them.
This fact, more than anything else, has proven to me, time and time again, that people are quick too judge what they don't understand, especially if it goes against everything they, themselves, have been taught.
I realized, a long time ago, that there is no such thing as "normal". The fact is we are a society of trends, pop culture, and borrowed concepts. Anything beyond that is completely foreign, unknown, and very difficult to understand. We fear what we don't understand, and we hate what we fear.
That said, the question is begged of anyone who's ever doubted how they perceive themselves in a sea of puppets who've been raised to follow by example and avoid rocking the proverbial fashion boat:
"Do I really care?"
If you can answer, "No!" to that question, and say it with the greatest confidence in who and what you are, then no one can stop you from being the person you want to be, regardless of what they may think about your choices.
It's always easier to go with the flow and look like everyone else. There's no effort in that, only the risk of sacrificing who you are inside and how you want to express yourself on the outside. Anyone can be a clone of the acceptable society. It takes an individual to stand out and truly be different and feel proud of it.
That said, I think you need to have a long talk with your children and explain, as best you can, the trials and tribulations they will face as they grow older and gain experience in becoming functioning members of society. Educate them about issues of prejudice, people who are judgemental, and society's general distaste for things that are outside the realm of what it considers "normal".
Ask them what they felt (and feel) when others criticize them based on how they look. Ask them whether they're truly comfortable enjoying the things you do as a family, and whether they want to continue in those activities. If they do, prepare them for the world they will soon be working in. Knowledge is power. If they believe in they are and the people they want to become, they will become unstoppable.
George Carlin was on the Dennis Miller Live show, several weeks ago. During the interview, Dennis asked George how he's able to deal with so much of the crap he sees our society produce. I love George's response:
"I'm an observer. I'm out here on the ether, looking in. The body I'm occupying right now is just my first-class ticket to this 3-ring circus called life."
Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they're open.
Shelley
I think you are doing great and want to add my voice of support too. I think your two sons have a great attitude to their hair and one day maybe with your encouragement they will grow it as long as yours and your daughter's.
I would carry on as originally planned with Halloween. I think if the children see you responding to the criticism in a negative way it will undermine their trust in you. You have been their source of encouragement in the past and should continue to be so in the future.
Good luck.
Sam
ok........
i ll be the one to say what everyone else is afraid to say.....
every month or 2 somwonw comes up with a story about kids and lonf hair.....but they NEVER---EVER post pics....
it like porn....stories to read....and....
if it was such a big day, i ; m sure u too pics....
PROVE IT!!!
dAVE: Gentlemen (and ladies who may visit here)
Shelley,
I know what you are going thru because I have also been called a bad mom. I'm a single parent with one little boy who will be ten next month. I have been growing his hair out ever since my divorce over 5 years ago. Right now it's almost to his waiste, and neither of us want to cut it. I do trim his ends and bangs when they needed, and we shampoo and condition at least twice a week, usually more. His hair is in beautiful shape, and we get lots of compliments. Although strangers don't realize that he is a boy. I'm not forcing him to have long hair, it's a decission we made together. Every time our family gets together the topic is always Timmy's hair. All the gals think he's so cute, and of course the guys think otherwise. As for halloween, I have dressed him as a girl 3 times. Last year he was going to be Little Bo Peep, but he got the flu. I know the costume will still fit, I just hope he wants to wear it. Anyway, thanks for posting, I hope your boys keep growing their hair.
It is one thing to be a mom who allows her son to grow his hair the way that he feels comfortable. It is another thing for moms (and dads) to impose themselves on their children. And parents do this all the time. I played basketball in school for 6 years because I thought it was what my dad wanted. I hated it. You give yourself away when you say that "you" are growing out his hair. Think about that. Change the body part. Are you growing out his legs? Whose hair is it? And dressing him as a girl is the final straw. Could you be telling him in any other way just how displeased you are with him as a boy? At 10, he certainly has not come to a place where his gender preferences are clear to him. Seeing and understanding his feminine and masculine aspects are still to be discovered. It is one thing to say that your son agrees with you. It is quite another to allow him the space to disagree with you. This is really not about hair is it? BTW, I am 41 and a longhair for the first time in my life, but I have spent years detangling what mom imposed on me, unconsciously. I think you moms have been doing the best you can, but having raised this question, your best has just taken a different turn. If you truly respect your sons, start allowing them some space to make their own decisions, and find them a longhaired man that they can identify with, a man who appreciates being a man.
Robert
Thank you for speaking up here.
I think we can all agree that long hair can look good on a boy ... and there is *ABSOLUTELY* nothing wrong with a boy who WANTS to grow his hair long.
There is a contingent of people (usually, but not always women) who wish their boy had been a girl, however. They won't use words to tell them, but their actions are *VERY* loud. There is even a group on yahoo that exists to support each other in this. Their sons are frequently put in dresses; they're proud when the boys are mistaken for girls; they talk about the ribbons they put in their hair. The only choice the boy really has involves whether or not his mother is going to approve of him or not ... and, as you say, the kid gets the message loud and clear - if unspoken - that it's unfortunate to be a boy.
Note that this type of need to earn parental approval isn't unique to hair and women. There are men who make it clear that they are only approving of their sons when they play sports WELL. There are parents that want to relive their youth through their kids ... and it is ALL wrong!
I think any boy who wants long hair - *OR* short hair - should be given that choice freely and supported in HIS independent, free choice. More importantly, the kids should know (not suspect, not hope, *KNOW*) that they are approved of for who they are, not who the parents wish they could be.
What is the yahoo group you refer to in your message?
Hi Lexi,
Your son must be really cute. I'm not a mom yet, but if I have a little boy he is definitely going to have long hair. My step-brother is 12, and he has beautiful long hair @ 3/4 th's of the way down his back. We always dress him as a girl on halloween. This year he is going to wear a really pretty junior bridesmaid dress that our mom found at a yard sale. How about your son? Is he going to be Little Bo Peep? After all, it's only halloween, everyone should just have fun. Let us know what he decides.
Tammie
Hi Tammie,
Your brother sounds cute too. I agree with you, halloween sound be fun, wear whatever. Timmy tried on the Bo Peep costume, and it fit perfectly, even better than last year. He didn't mind the dress, but started to object at the pantaloons ( I think that's what they're called ), and he didn't like the bonnet at all. The whole costume was professionally made @ 12 years ago, and is very frilly and feminine. I'm not going to force him to wear it on halloween, but I did get some great pictures. Yesterday I took it to his daycare to see if any other mom could use it for their daughter, and guess what? I was able to trade it for an adorable Princess Barbie costume. It even came with high heel pumps that fit. He seems to be OK with everything, so this should be a great halloween.
Lexi
So Lexi,
Is your son really going to be Princess Barbie on Halloween? What's the dress like? Can he handle high heels? How are you going to do his hair? Is it a school party, or just trick or treating? Keep us posted.
Tammie
Lexi:
How do you style your boy's waist-length hair? Do you have different styles for school, dress, and play, and are you going to let it grow longer?
Hi Jack,
Thank you for the interest in my son's hair. Actually it's not quite waist length, but it will be in a year or so. It grows really fast, but I do a lot of trimming on his ends so that it curls under naturallly. His hair is thick, and has so much body that it is really easy to care for. This year I have a new job, and I have to be at work at 7:00 AM. I really miss the time we used to spend in the mornings getting his hair ready for school. Now he wears his nightime braid to daycare and after breakfast he brushes it out all by himself. He usually wears it down, but on windy days the owner's daughter loves to help him braid it. I'm really proud of the way he is keeping care of it. He does get teased about it being so long, but has never asked for a cut, so I guess we will be growing it longer. Thanks again.
Lexi
Lexi:
Thanks for your response. Your son's hair must be very good looking and a pleasure to care for. There must be a variety of styles that would be very attractive for it. In addition to wearing it either in braids or loose, do you ever pin it up in a bun, and for special dress-up occasions, do you ever fix it in old-fashioned long curls?
It's good that your son likes to help care for his hair. Hopefully it can grow longer.
Lexi:
Jack,
The only time I get to do anything like what your suggesting is on Halloween. It's already hard enough to get people to believe he's a boy, so I don't really want to go there. For some reason he has let his babysitter put hot rollers in his hair. I think he has a crush on her or something, and she talks him into it.
Lexi
Lexi:
Jack,
The only time I get to do anything like what your suggesting is on Halloween. It's already hard enough to get people to believe he's a boy, so I don't really want to go there. For some reason he has let his babysitter put hot rollers in his hair. I think he has a crush on her or something, and she talks him into it.
Lexi
I wasn't sure what this meant until a few weeks later when my mother informed me I had an appointment at the beauty salon, as we called it, that Saturday. My mother and my sister both went to the same stylist in a traditional salon in a nearby shopping center. The stylist's name was Leslie and she'd cut my hair once before. She and my mother had a very frank and extensive conversation about my hair. Leslie finally suggested a shoulder length bob with a few layers around my face, and after a few months that's what I had. My mother had a few rules: I had to wear my hair neat, clean, and out of my face. Also, I couldn't spend time on it in the mornings before school. In practice, That meant setting it in rollers a couple of times a week, as did my sister. We had a big old soft-hood dryer and my mother would set my hair on big rollers and I'd sit under the dryer for a an hour in the evening. Eventually my sister complained I was using her rollers and so my mother & I went out and bought a set of my own. On special occasions she'd put me in hot rollers; she also got a few headbands, which I'd wear to church and the like.
This got to be pretty routine for a couple of years until I got to high school -- then, of course, the girls started noticing how nice my hair was styled and I got some teasing and a lot of questions. I was pretty matter of fact about it and wound up dating a girl who thought it was great. I had long hair all through high school and had a mother, and a girlfriend, who helped me take care of it and made sure I kept it nicely styled . I didn't do much with my hair in college and right after, but since I got married 2 years ago, at age 30, my wife has encouraged me to grow it out again. I've just started going to her stylist, so it's like old times back in my teenage years. I have to say I've been very encouraged by sites like this one and the rollers-for-men sites which show there's plenty of men who are comfortable with wearing their hair in ways once considered overtly feminine. I hope my own son will grow up equally un-self-conscious, however he chooses to wear his hair.
Hello Shelley
I think everything has been said. I totally agree with everyone else that you are a great mom and love your sons and you want the best for them. When i have children of my own i will certainly let them have long hair if THEY want it. I think that long hair on boys looks good, like on girls, ALMOST everyone looks better with long hair, children, boys or girls, are no exception. I think that if your sons want to have feminine hair dos every now and then and have fun with it, sure, let them do it, who cares what narrow minded peole think, BUT, make sure it's THEIR choice, not yours. Just make sure you are not imposing, even unconciously, what you want them to do. Like Robert said there are some people who want their sons to look like girls, i'm not saying you are one of them, but to tell you the truth i noticed that they live in a very feminine environment, which by the way is not a bad thing at all, i lived all my life with my mother and sister and had no male role model whatsoever and i'm not feminine or anything (actually i wouldn't have minded if my mother and my sister were like you and your daughter when i was younger, they were always telling me to cut my hair, ugh), but show them more alternatives than just feminine dos and allow them to choose from there. Whatever they choose is fine, either if it is a feminine look or a more masculine one (what is a feminine or masculine look anyway?). For halloween, if they still want to go as Cinderella's sisters, great, i hope all of you have lots of fun, i have dressed like a girl before and i had lots of fun, but if they want to go as pirates or batman or machoman or something like that that's not a bad thing either (:
No, you are not a bad mom, you are a great mom.
When I was in Jr. high school, a long haired guy told me this: "If you wear long hair, that some people will call you a fem and if you wear short hair the same guys will call you a conservative freak." "Either way", he said, "you will never please everyone so you might just as well please just yourself."
If I ever have sons of my own, they will have the right to wear their hair in whatever hair style and length they want to. Thus, I would allow them to wear long hair, not matter what anyone else thinks.
On a similar note, has anyone here see the Trigun Anime series? The Anime has flashbacks of the two feature men in the series as boys, both at one time wear long hair. I suggest renting Trigun, or watching it at the local Anime club, before buying it.
Multi HMX-12
Shelley
I feel you are a great mom really !!!. Well done.
Please let me have your email as I would like to email you personally
Regards
Trevor