new thread
I have now had time to really analyze the responses to my previous postings about long hair and identity and what it means.
Firstly, I want to thank all those that responded. Your interest and feedback are most appreciated.
I do have to address certain responses though:
AzureNight:
Seriously...it's just hair. Your identity is who you are not the hair that grows on your head. If your identity was your hair then you would be a very shallow person.
Excuse me but who made you God to decide what identifies a person? You have the audacity to describe me as shallow. Do you even have a clue as to what I'm about?
Look, I realize my views on long hair may be on the extreme side. Most have not grown up in the environment I did and have not been exposed to the negativity that I have.
I am in no way wanting to denigrate those that just have long hair because it's cool or whatever. All I'm asking is that you appreciate and acknowledge that there are those out there who view hair differently. Having never walked in our paths, it's hard to describe. Yes, I spoke in hyperbole about dying rather than having my hair cut but at the same time, it's hard to envision such a scenario.
It's hard to let others see a window into my soul. I grew up in such an "us versus them" mentality.....all non JWs are to die...we are the elite...etc.... It takes a while to shed that. Meanwhile, I knew I was a longhair and a repressed one. I fully understand that many will never get that but I think some do. To me hair does have a strong spiritual connotation. I respect that to others it doesn't. That's cool. I respect you, just please respect me.
Jason,
You asked to be respected, now before you ever posted that "Why do people cut" thread I cannot believe there was one regular member of the MLHH who did not respect you. Responses to every single post you make are always overwhelmingly postive with many here (including myself) claiming you had some of the very best hair on the board and were most inspiring and one of our true hair gurus. You were showered with awe and respect.
Now for some reason you are asking for what has been clearly given for years. I am not sure what drove you to write that first post or why you of all people have to be defensive on the subject of hair. Nobody disrespected you, disagreeing with you I do not believe qualifies as disrespect. I know of nobody who slammed you or insulted you in any way. I know the only thing I did was (rightly as it turned out) questioned your resolution to die for your hair. To me words (and oaths) are very powerful things and hearing something like that struck an alarm in me. Actually Jason I am quite pleased that you were exaggerating about dying for hair. Your latter response about that seems much more normal to me. Not that my opinion will matter all that much to you.
AzureNight said much the same thing that I posted back to you one your posts, that IF your hair was your identity then you would be a shallow person. And you never seemed like a shallow person to me (and probably not to others here either). I thought that a compliment and certainly not a lack of respect.
Is the lack of respect the fact that some here disagree with you? I do not think disagreement is a lack of respect. I think a lack of respect would be either outright denigration and swearing insults at you or maybe worse, a complete disinterest in you and no response to your post. Jason I believe you are held in high esteem here and cannot really understand where you are coming from with this whole thing. Nobody has ever said anything but the greatest of things about you. If you are disrespected here than I am a skinhead!
Chris,
Your response was different. You never called me shallow. That's what I was trying to say in this recent post. I respect your position but I ask that others respect mine. People saying I have nice hair is different from respecting my reasons for having it.
I rightfully take offense to someone saying I have long hair because I'm shallow. Do people get what it means to give up one's religion (and potential prospects for eternal life based on its credo) and family for long hair? That's a seminal issue if there ever was one. I've made my stand. A style choice to you, a lifestyle to me. A very profound difference. I don't disrespect you for your feeling, all I'm asking is the same in turn.
"A style choice to you, a lifestyle to me"
i feel the same,
most of my friends have short hair and having long hair is what makes me stick out from the rest...its not a style, its me :)
Leaving aside the issue of hair and identity as a general argument Jason, I cannot even fathom the depths of the kind of thinking you were raised in (it seems a cult to me and probably many others on the outside of it). Jason you are a brave hero for taking the stand you did and breaking free of that prison. I have nothing but the greatest respect for the effort of will and determination that drove you to freedom. I wish more people had the courage that you showed in thinking for yourself against all the odds of family and peers in the same faith.
I have never faced such challenges being raised in a rather typical laissez-faire Catholic church where when I was young a token appearance at church on Sundays was all that was required. When I was younger I was not that concerned with hair so after my early teenage years (when I had it longish) I never really pushed again for long hair or thought about it at all.
You had to fight for every inch of ground in your struggle for freedom and long hair, and just like I cannot appreciate personal freedom growing up here in the US as compared to someone coming from China say. The worth of something really IS determined by the price paid. You most certainly paid a higher price for long hair than I will ever pay. I understand that (as well as I can anyway intellectually). You are an inspiration to all of us and not just because of the hair :)
My hair and my religion were both relatively cheap so the cost of discarding either one is no big deal to me. Religiously I never had to feel that anything I did would either grant or take from me eternal life. I cannot imagine that kind of pressure, I worry enough about the effects of my worldly decisions! I am now quite agnostic but if there is a God I cannot see him being nearly so vindictive against enemies and picky of his friends as the bible specififes.
I am glad you aren't ticked off at me Jason, I was afraid you would be mad at me cause of this series of posts and I think you are a great guy and I respect you. Fortunately I did not have to walk in your shoes to do so :) Take care Jason
This is bad - a third response in one thread.
Everyone should understand one thing. Jason's position is not derived from being "shallow". For all of the larger part of 30 years he has battled this against all manner of opposition that is hard for many to understand.
D
Do people get what it means to give up one's religion (and potential prospects for eternal life based on its credo) and family for long hair? That's a seminal issue if there ever was one. I've made my stand. A style choice to you, a lifestyle to me.
Hey Jason ...
This may be too far down the board at this point for you to see; but my question is why can't you have both?
Tristan
In my case, my hair is not my entire identity, but it is not just a fashion statement either. My identity is multi-faceted, and my hair is just a small part of it, but my hair is the ANCHOR of my identity. It is through my hair that I have developed a sense of self, enabling me to nail down all the other facets of my identity. Before I grew out my hair, I did not know who the hell I was.
Bill
That about sums me up too. I can't say it any better than that so I'll just say ditto and Well said Bill.
I'll third that. I almost find it difficult to see anything more into the relationship between hair and identity. You summed it up very well.
Mogh
Hi Jason. Your passion for your hair, your individuality and your freedom to express who you are is definitly admirable. When people are denied something as you were, it seems to make them all the more passionate about their feelings when they are finally able to express them. Most people here probably haven't been in the situation you were in when you grew up, so it's hard for them to understand. Your hair is truly exceptional and I'm glad that you are now free to fully live your dreams of long haired glory.
Del
I'm glad that you are now free to fully live your dreams of long haired glory.
These are not dreams - those are inconsequential. Jason is realising himself.
Hi Jason,
In my little circle of friends and family that I feel closest to (in real-life, --- so, for the moment, I am excluding people I have met on-line, in order to emphasize the point I am about to make...), I am the only one that I can think of that feels as passionately about having and keeping my hair long. Even the longhaired women in my life do not feel as intensely as I do about their own long hair. Go figure!
My childhood had a similar parallel experience to yours: I was completely denied the experience of growing my hair out at all, as long as I lived in my father's household. The traditional, ultra-conservative, "white walls" look around the ears (where no hair was EVER allowed to even touch the tops of my ears), along with every summer bringing its mandatory buzzcut ("easy-to-get-dry-after-going-swimming haircut", my dad used to call it) depressed the hell out of me. And worse... I came of age during the late '60s, --- when having short hair like my father made us boys have was totally NOT, "cool!"
My biggest breaking free of that atmosphere was when I decided to leave home at age 18, and go out into the workforce (giving up finishing my college education, which I had only completed my freshman year in). But, I still mentally and emotionally labored with the strange beliefs my dad had so forcefully instilled in me, which took a lot of time & distance, as well as some professional therapy, to further break free from feeling trapped by. When I celebrated about 15 years ago with being able to put my hair back into my first ponytail, I knew I had FINALLY, "made it!" But, believe it or not, it took the experience of going through my devastating short Y2K haircut to fully wake me up to realize that maybe I should commit to being a, "Longhair for Life!"
We all have our stories, and our reasons for being who we are as longhairs. As far as my religious upbringing goes, there was nothing "officially" wrong about long hair on men, --- at least as far as the main tenets and primary beliefs in the teachings of Christian Science goes (although during the '60s there were many church memebers around my parents' age who thought it was "bad").... In addition, Christian Scientists just so happen to not believe in a physical Heaven or physical Hell. They believe you make your own "Heaven" or "Hell" right here on Earth, --- and that through spiritual growth you can experience more and more of heaven every day (or, visa-versa, through LACK of spritual growth, you are living in hell every day - lol)! I no longer go to that church (except maybe on a rare occasion. like with my mom - lol); but, in my case, I do not feel completely severed from my religious upbringing, --- although being openly gay now, I can't say I feel 100% "welcome", either!!
I hope this background info is helpful, and that you are far from alone in having strong feelings about having long hair.
- Ken
Thanks for sharing your background, Ken. There are definite similarities. Although I don't think you are as quite cut off as I am with the JW community. I can only hope that God Almighty is not so picayune as to judge a person by their hair!
Well, if God does indeed just so happen to judge us human beings by our hair, then I say He/She probably is secretly partial to us longhairs, --- after all, God isn't called, "Creator" for nothin'!
On my Mane Page of my website you can read my views about this, --- and, BTW, i INSIST that God cannot be "Almighty" without a sense of humor!
- Ken
Ken's Mane Page
Jason
Bravo
You set down something which is at the very heart of each of us. You went through something which few would understand or even appreciate.
YOU are YOU and I would certainly die to protect your choice.
Duncan
How about we all get along and hold hands?
Must we forget that none of us have walked very far in each others shoes?
peace
clayton
Exactly. Everybody should relax and realize that we all aren't
going to have identical thoughts and feelings. Everyone is
different and has had their own unique life experences.
Hi Jason. Well I know I'll never understand what you went through as a JW I do know by your words that you are a very passionate person who just wants to be free and not held to some rigid standards by a religion.Fortunately I never had to deal with that but like you I am VERY passionate about my hair. If I weren't I wouldn't have had it long for over 20 yrs. Never in that time have I ever given a thought to cutting it all off or at least short.That is why there are no pics of me with short hair which ended with my high school year book and ended my geek look forever.There is not a person on this earth who will get me to cut my hair... EVER!! Long hair forever:))Mark
Jason,
I have not had time to read them all, but off the top, It is NOT, "just hair?" It could equally be said that it is not just clothes, it is not just grammar, it is not just landuage, it is not just culture, it is not just nationality, it is not just politics -- etc. etc. -- all these dimensions are who we are, and none of them are trivial, even though each of them may have more or less salience for each of us. This is just the beginning of what I might say on this topic, but any dimension of our self chosen identity is not to be trivialized.
To put this in more positive terms, my hair is a symbol of my freedom, my masculinity, my individuality, my sexuality, my faith affirmations, and so on. It is not just hair, and no one is going to take it away for me, even those who observe me may not realize the depth of its meaning for me.
For others, long hair may be a trivial, ephemerial expression, and I welcome them as temporary fellow travelers, but for some of us it is a far more serious business, and they have no business trivializing it.
Cal
I suppose I was "trivializing" hair when I say that to me it (hair) is much like nails biologically, but actually long hair to me is more like wearing clothes that I enjoy. Changing clothes is not a real big deal to me and the only reason hair is different to me from clothes is the fact that it takes so darn long to grow out. If I could change hair length like I change clothes there might very well be days when I would have short hair again in between the long hair days, just for the change I suppose.
I was not trying to denigrate anyone's passion for hair here, but indicating honestly how I see hair, which I do believe was really what Jason was asking in the first place. I am sorry that my opinion on hair was seen as trivializing it, but I don't see why I also shouldn't be able to express an opinion. If I have "no business" expressing an opinion than why ask for one. I kind of bristle at the "no business" thing. I am not saying what you should or should not do, but expressing an opinion, I would hope I have business doing that either as a regular here and especially if asked for an opinion about haircutting, which since I did it most of my life I felt more than qualified to answer :)
--a temporary ephemeral traveler
Chris, what you have said is speaking about your own hair. You aren't trying to apply it to everyone with long hair so you don't ruffle any feathers. The problem is when one person tells another what their values should be.
Elizabeth
Hi Cal. You put this whole topic in it proper perspective brilliantly.We all have things that mean a lot to us but not to others and it goes the other way as well.Unfortunately there are fellow longhairs here that may be in it for the novelty but ultimately when the chips are down will cut it short and wash their hands of the experience.I really feel bad when that happens but I guess its just human nature to pick up on something and eventually tire of it.Well at least I know where my hair stands in the pecking order:)Take care and great resonse.Mark
Jason
I have been reading your post's for years, even before you came out as Jason. Your background has been tough in my way's including your hair.
Your not the only one who has had or is having a hard life. If hair is a main personality trait then so be it. But don't come back blasting someone for a response, that's just not fair.
I have watched you come and go along with countless others. I happen to like long hair, but I don't need nor request opinions only to go off on a response.
I do agree that the dead hair on my head had no control over the spirit I am. This shell of a body is only here for a short time and is meant to break down and die. Therefore hair is temporary, the soul is what lives on.
Relax, you broke the ties, let go of the anger. I live in a group that is constantly bashed,people despise my group so much there is an attempt to change the constitution to discriminate against us. Just think if the government ruled your hair? if I were so thin skinned by a simple remark I don't think I would be alive today.
The reality is its hair, it grows, you either like it, cut it shave it, or never touch it, whatever you do with it will not change the course of the world,,,,,,,so just have fun with it. Think twice before you ask a question,,,,can I accept any answer, if you can't don't ask it.
ENJOY
Paul
Jason and I have had opportunity numerous times to disagree, and have. Yet I believe that we still hold a mutual respect for one another; just because we believe different things is nothing more than disagreeing about certain things.
As Chris said, when asked an opinion one should be able to do so without being driven into the ground. Attacking the messenger adds nothing. There are many diverse people on this board, and each should have the opportunity to express themselves, as long as it is not at the expense of others.
I like my hair, I enjoy my hair; but I may not feel as strongly as Jason does. That does not make either of us wrong. It just makes us who we are.
Jason, as I have said before, I may disagree strongly with some of your viewpoints, but I much more strongly support your right to express them. And each one of us on here deserves the same respect.
George
Jason!
Whoa, You were raised a JW, too? I know exactly where you are coming from on that because I was raised a Witness and stayed with the religion for 38 years until I disassociated myself over a year ago. And, that's when my longhair journey began. My parents and sister are still JW, but at least they talk to me on the phone instead of shunning me completely. Still, it's not easy to be completely open with them. Do you still have family in the "organization"? Oh, and I'm sorry I haven't replied to your topics, but I do read them and appreciate your point of view.
David
Hi David,
Wow, that's interesting that you also grew up this way. I don't have any immediate family but my other family still talks to me although I sense some distance.
Did you always want long hair? Did you grow it as long as you could get away with when you were active?
Jason,
To be honest, while I always admired well kept long hair on "worldly" people, it never occurred to me that *I* could have long hair. For the most part I did what was expected of me. Still, I never looked forward to getting a haircut. I just took it for granted that it was not my decision to make.
There were some things that to me seemed a bit hypocritical with the Witnesses when I was younger, like prohibiting men from having long hair and beards when the illustrations in the books and magazines (at least from the '80s on) were full of "righteous" men from Biblical times with longer hair and beards. So, apparently God didn't have a problem with long hair and beards, but modern day Witnesses didn't have them so as not to offend potential converts. LOL! As if we didn't offend them just by arguing religion on their front door step!
Even though I only disassociated myself last year, I have been in the process of "finding myself" for several years now. The cognitive dissonance became too great for me, and I began to question the very basis for control and authority that I have been expected to submit to all my life.
I could go on and on, but I'll keep on topic. Long hair is a natural and normal part of being a human whether male or female. If this life is all I ever have, then I'm going to know what it feels like to have terminal length hair. I only regret that I missed being a long hair in my youth.
David
David, you have me laughing here. What a perfect example of the limits people put on their thinking about what is or is not reasonable.
Elizabeth
David,
I really appreciate you sharing your story. I think it's hard for most to imagine what we broke free from. It is incredibly pervasive, affecting all aspects of life. The long hair was critical to me leaving. That's why I bristle when I'm described as shallow. To give up one's spiritual "inheritance" is a big deal.
I do get where you're coming from, Jason. I also feel that without my hair I wouldn't be me. Maybe my reasoning is even similar.
I spent the best years of my life arguing with my mum and dad over this issue, and they still only tolerate it, even though I have kids of my own. My son, who's now 14, has been growing his hair out again, having gone through a short haired phase. It's been purely his own decision, as I would never put him through what I went through. I just hope that his grandparents don't complain about his hair when they next see him! (Either to me or directly to him).
I think that arguing over hair length over a large chunk of your life does make a difference to who you are. Some eventually back down, but I'm not that kind of person. Generally I'm more stubborn than a mule! Maybe that's nothing to be proud of, bit it is a major part of being me. Maybe my long hair just means I'm a stubborn b******, but even if that's true, it's who I am.
Keep your freak flag flying! Alun
I remember well the massive crisis in your life when you moved away from the religious organisation you belonged to and your marriage ended. I can almost feel the joy in your posts now that you finally have ownership of yourself.
I have experienced a different background to you and exhibited some different strategies to cope with the despair of being 'owned' by an organisation (I went down the alcoholism/anorexia route). I totally identify with your feelings regarding your hair and understand why you used the semi-hyperbolic reference to death in relation to any possibility of cutting it.
Hello Jason: I totally appreciate and applaud you for your stance and feelings. I think it's a monumental task to have come out of your religious situation. (I am a lifelong atheist). That in itself is praiseworthy and I can only imagine the sense of liberation you must feel. (I'm not implying that I think you are atheist, however)
You are being the person you are comfortable with in a myriad of ways I presume and growing your hair is one of those ways...and what a great head of hair to help you celebrate your individual freedom! Woohoo!! Keep up the good work...and thanks for all your inspiration insights. I'm totally on your side. Congrats!!!
Cheers,
Max L.