new thread
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071017/NEWS01/710170337/1053/rss17
It appears that the school granted a religeous exemption in the case I previously reported, after the ACLU became involved. This turns out to have been a charter school, and I'm not sure where this falls between state schools (where hair discrimination is an infringement of the first amendment) and private schools (where it seems to be allowed), but this didn't go to court anyway, and if it had the complaint would probably have been based on religious freedom.
OF COURSE...
Get ACLU involved, cry religion, and you have a recipe for exemption from someone else's rules. The ACLU does all it can to forbid things like the use of the word "God" in the pledge of allegence, no prayer in school, no ten commandments in court houses, and even going so far as to put pressure on the government to have places like Corpus Christi change their name due to it's religious meaning. But they'll defend someone in a HEARTBEAT, who says that they are being discrimenated because of their religion. Doesn't matter if it breaks dress code, becomes a safety hazard, or whatnot (I'm thinking in particular of a muslim woman who was stopped by a State trooper who wanted her to remove her garb so he could positively ID her, AND of a muslim girl who wore her garb in school, violating the dress code there.)
Special interest groups are the downfall of this country, and "ACLU!" is their warcry.
You are missing the essential mission of the ACLU, and in doing so you are missing the consistency in their actions. The mission of the ACLU is to protect citizens from the government.
Bill
Moreover, everyone belongs to special interest groups, usually more than one. This is one right here.
IT IS FOOLISH TO PERPETUATE FALSE RUMORS ABOUT ACLU.
The three purposes of the ACLU are to educated about the constitution, to lobby for legislatiion consistent with the constitution, and to litigate only when the government has stepped on individual rights.
Litigation has to be limited to test cases, to establish precedent, for there is not enough money to pursue every case when person think their liberties have been denied, and the vast amount of legal work done is pro bono, for the common good, without fee.
Someone who recently moved to Asheville, NC from Arizona sought ACLU help to prevent their neighborhood from being annexed into the city, and I asked them if they would have moved here if there were not a great, if small city, with good restaurants, bookstores, universities and colleges, and freedom for long haired and eccentric people. So if they moved here to benefit from this city, why should they not be part of it, since they were getting our (pure mountain spring, often bottled for you by the commerial companies) city water and sewage services?
But our local ACLU jumpted when an over zealous if uninformed sherrif deputy arrested a couple for posting a flag upside down on their front porch, mind you, on their own home, to protest the non declared war, with an explanation pinned to the flag. There is still on the books in NC a statute against flag desecration, but this has been struck down in two other states by the SUPREMES, and would be here if it goes to court.
The relationship between freedom and order in any society is never easy.
BUT IT IS AN URBAN LEGEND, OR OUTRIGHT MANIPULATIVE LIE, TO SAY THAT THE ACLU SEEKS TO CHANGE HISTORIC PLACE NAMES, NOR TO REMOVE RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN EMBEDED INTO HISTORIC BUILDINGS OR WORKS OF ART.
This ia a lie, concocted by those who would suppress your liberty to put down the organization which stands to defend your liberty.
But the ACLU does act against those who place religious symbols on their own authority, in public places.
In my state, with once a very homogenious pupulation, it has been tradition to swear on the Bible in court, typically one of the early Protestant translations, the KJV. If you were required to swear on the Koran, would that assure that you told the truth, and v.v. Now, thanks to the ACLU it is possible to take an oath on a scripture of your own tradition, or simply to raise your hand and say I do solemnly swear or affirm to tell the truth.
Unfortunately, in NC we still have a sodomy (Whatever that means in American law; if you read the Bible carefully you will see that sodomy is defined as "inhospitality.") on the books, but since it is never enforced it never gets to the courts to be struck down as it has been in Texas and Kentucky.
However, it has always been perfectly legal for two men who are not married to each other to live together in a home in NC. However, there was a law on the books that made it illegal for a man and a woman to live together unless they were married. A foolish sherrif in Onslow County fired a woman deputy who cohabitated with a friend, and asking ACLU help, won the case and that law was struck down. Now any two people, even more, sometimes limited by city zoning laws, can occupy a house without benefit of matrimony.
And the ACLU along with NC Equality, has prevented the legislature from passing a bill to change the state constitution to prevent two persons of the same sex to be married -- one of a few states which has avoided this restriction on freedom. There is no provision in law for same sex marriage, but we have prevented so far a change in the constitution of the state.
If you think the ACLU is inconsistent, they you do not know what is going on. The ACLU defends the constitution, and prevents government from exercizing arbitrary power over you, the citizen.
Hardship dues are $5. $20. is suggested. Membership is in the national organization, though your state affiliate will be notified and you will get the newsletter of your state affiliate, but your name is confidential. Some people fear they would be discriminated against if their membership were known, like many candidates for public office. But I have been a proud card carrier for more than 50 years.
Caledonian
or
James Harrison
Asheville, NC
Thanks for the well written, and thoughtful clarification.
Don
I agree.
You can always count on the ACLU to consistently be inconsistent. They will stomp all over one persons rights to "defend" the rights of another.
They lost their true purpose years ago.
You do realise that the first Amendment guarantees the right to freedom of religion, or FROM religion. America was founded as a secular government, separate from religion. Eventually the two fused together though.
I don't see why the pledge of allegiance needs to mention God. What if atheists or agnostics want to swear the pledge of allegiance? Or better yet, what if any non-Christian swears it? After all it refers to the Christian God. Since when do minorities not deserve the same rights as the majority?
Secondly, schools are not religious institutions. If you want to pray, go to a church. Schools are for education in sciences, history, mathematics. In other words, subjects that revolve around reason and sense. Let me quote Martin Luther who started the protestant movement. "Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.".
And let's not forget "I am afraid that the schools will prove the very gates of hell, unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures and engraving them in the heart of the youth." (in other words indoctrination into a religion before the kid grows mature enough to make the choice for himself). I know a few people who, having NOT been indoctrinated into a religion at an early agem, then decided to convert to Buddhism (seems a popular one), Agnosticism, or Atheism from their parent's religion.
It amazes me that of all the western countries, America practices these ideas of a 16th Century priest most of all. And even more, the Government seems to value some of these religious dogmatic beliefs more than their own constitution. Quite a bit of a twist for a secular government founded separate from religion, isn't it?
The job of the ACLU isn't to defend a particular set of principles, and wage war against another. It is to defend, as Bill has said, the people from the Government, or other religious institutions that use unathorized governmental power to get their ideas into action. No matter what form this takes. So from what I see at least, their actions seem consistent enough. Although I probably don't know enough particular cases to dish out any judgement.
God was added to the pledge in the McCarthy witch-hunt era as an
'anti-communist' move! I am a foreigner in your country, but perhaps that's why I'm sure that it's unconstitutional and should be taken back out, because I can read your constitution without bias!
I should add that there is nothing to stop anyone from reciting the old godless version.
One other thing that bugs me is that in the US the boy scouts recite the pledge in place of the boy scout oath, which would otherwise say I promise to do my duty to God and my country. For scouts who are not Americans reciting the pledge is treason, whereas the correct oath says 'my country' so is OK for anyone to say. Why can't they use the same oath as the rest of the d*mn*d world? As a parent of a scout I used to stay silent while the whole room recited the pledge, which made me feel unwelcome. Of course,the genuine boy scout oath still says God and I am an atheist anyway...
If your son were an atheist also, and if the Scouts were to learn of that, of course they might kick him out. They have done that before, and they have successfully litigated their right to do so.
The same court cases that allow the Scouts to kick out gays and atheists allow MLHH to discriminate in favor of men with long hair. Private associations have a "right of association", which is discussed at the link.
Bill
Right of Association
I'm aware of all that, Bill.
I think you could say that he's uncommitted as far as religion goes. He possibly considers himself to be more Wiccan than anything else. My wife is a convert to Wicca from the church of England (equivalent to Episcopal), and he sometimes professes belief in her religion. As a matter of fact, my wife is a district committee member in the scouts.
Whilst I suspect that the people running scouts at the US national level may not particularly like Wiccans, their official policy (worldwide, I think) is only that belief in a higher being is required, so I don't think they can technically disqualify someone for believing in multiple higher beings! Nor have they, AFAIK.
Unfortunately, their illustrious founder, Lord Baden-Powell, despite many admirable qualities, was also one of those buffoons who believed that it was impossible for atheists to have any sense of morals!
I am the bigger problem! My only position in scouting is as a merit badge counsellor for the radio, electronics and electricity badges. I know very well that I could be kicked out at any time for the sin of atheism, but if they do the only ones who will lose are the boys that will have to find someone else to sign for their merit badges.
OTOH, the only scouting official who knows I am an atheist is my wife, and she isn't going to tell anyone else. Of course, they could read it online, but even if they did act on it I wouldn't exactly suffer. Scouting isn't my life, or even more than a very tiny part of it.
I do feel sorry for those who actually are enthusiastic about scouting and have been kicked out for atheism, especially those boys who were thrown out. I know it's legal (at least in the US), but quite ridiculous. It's an outdoor youth organisation, not a church.
Yes, their doing that would be stupid, but the U.S. Army tosses out gay people who are fluent speakers of Arabic, so I wouldn't put it past any institutional mentality. [sigh]
Bill
Yeah, I didn't want to make light of the scouts treatment of gays either. I heard of one boy/young man who got his eagle and went directly (I almost said 'straight', LOL) from being a scout to being a leader at age 18, came out as gay and was booted out despite nobody in the entire troop having any problem with that, whether they were parents, scouts or other leaders. I believe the district committee threw him out. Crazy people.
That's just a religious exemption for one person. That doesn't do anything for other male students who want to grow long hair.
Sad but true.
However, if it had gone to trial (I read in a different article that the ACLU did file a complaint in court, but didn't pursue it after the school caved in) it might have clarified the status of charter schools (or not).