new thread
Thanks to Bruce (Scooper) for putting my TV stint on YouTube! It was doubly sweet to see it because a storm at home took the power off all day, and we were unable to record it here in San Francisco.
The family that was on TV with me, by the way, are three generations - the young boy, his mother, and her mother (the boy's grandmother). All of them, as well as other members of their family, are face blind. The boy was quiet and shy, except for one moment in the "green room" after the segment was aired. As we parted, I said, "Dude, keep growin' the hair!" and he broke out in a big grin.
Like me, he uses hair to tell people apart. Amidst a sea of ignorance, my life was hell at his age (and actually, pretty awful for forty years after then). I think the greatest pleasure I get from my decision to research the condition and go public with it comes from seeing what my work has done for kids. It damn near makes me cry every time I realize so many kids nowadays will not have to go through their lives as I did, because of my having undertaken that endeavor.
Bill
Wow, this is something that I've only heard of, but haven't really been able to hear firsthand about what it's like. I could defitely understand the bit about following a TV show. Bill I must say that your TV presence is very impressive and you've presented your point very well, you truly are an inspiration! All of my best to you, and the beard rocks!
A very impressive interview and a subject I didn't know much about the job subject but I'm certainly more informed about it now.
My best to you forever.
Cheers,
John.B
That was cool, I've been curious about this since you first mentioned having it, so it was nice to see a bit more about it.
Amazing beard, by the way!
Wow really well spoken Bill.
Hi Bill
First of all you looked great on TV and presented your case very well.Gee maybe you need to get a job in broadcasting:) Seriously I was very impressed with that segment as I sort of have the same problem but I don't think it is as severe as your case is. That being if I meet new people who have ordinary appearances and see them say the next day I just don't remember them from the day before.It could even be over a period of several hours too.However if there is some striking physical feature such as longhair as you mentioned that would jog my memory enough to remember that person.I was always aware of that problem I have but figured maybe many people experience it as well.Anyway thanks to both you for being on the show and Bruce for putting it up on YouTube as it was very informative.Don't worry Bill I will always recognize you:) Mark
Hi Mark,
You could have a mild case. On the other hand, all of us recognize SOME people, so one should not base his thought on his case being mild just on that. What you describe is what we experience.
Face blindness is probably the only disease that is more common in longhairs than in the general population (other than perhaps lice infections! [grin]), because a lot of us use hair to tell people apart, and we ourselves want to be among the "recognizable", not among the bland "others". As one face blind guy put it, the world is like a huge herd of cattle who all look alike, along with a few cowboys who look unique. I don't want to be a cow; I want to be a cowboy!
Bill
Bill,
I just saw your segment on YouTube. You look confident and comfortable on the interview. You did great!.
That was great Bill !
too bad that i can't understand all what you say (no one want to make french subtitles ? lol)
I never heard about face blindness before this, i read some articles on the web about it (include yours on your website) and now i know what is face blindness and i understand how it must be sometime hard to live with it.
Cya
Yeah, it's tough to hear another language. I can mostly read Spanish, but understanding it is not nearly so easy unless the person is just talking to me.
There are web sites with info other than in English, but they don't have nearly as much information. Faceblind.org has material in French, Portuguese, Danish, Italian, and Hebrew. Karnhuset.com has material in Swedish. Prosopagnosie.de has material in German.
Bill
Interesting topic and interview! You came across very well.
Ed
That was amazingly gallant of you, Bill, for appearing on teevee to help to lend a voice to this handicap, virtually unrecognised before the advent o/t internet. It helps that you're as erudite a communicator as you are. Mega kudos to ya, Bill. And thank you, Bruce, for putting the five-minutes-plus segment up on YouTube, as many of us would not've been able to've seen it otherwise, since some of us don't get television.
As an aside, Bill, PLEASE, be an extra or a character in some capacity in a future production in some sword and sorcery film I do, once I get my film company up and running.
ALSO, it was good to witness that Riley, the boy on the discussion panel ALSO w/ prosopagnosia, is a longhair and will most likely continue to be one throughout his life. Score another one for our side, people! Hip, hip, hooray!
Yours for learning more and growing longer hair,
Quenyan (RicK)
Wow that's amazing I understand..:-)!
Cheers,
John.B
I wonder if this disorder has any relationship to one of those phenomena that used to be a "running joke" but probably is no longer politically correct.
I'm speaking of the "all xxx look the same to me". For myself, I didn't even see a non-caucasian in person until I was a teenager (yep - lived THAT far out in the sticks). I still find that I have to concentrate among black and oriental acquaintances to make sure that the person I see is who I think they are.
I still do drag that out - a young oriental co-worker after his first week or so on the job addressed me by another's name. I joked to him that probably all of us Scotsmen look the same to him, what with the blue paint and wearing dresses all the time {grin}
Any thoughts?
Sorry I can't cite any specific studies, since I heard this on the radio. Apparently, light-skinned people tend to place a lot of importance on nuances of facial features for recognition. Dark-skinned people, because of the dark skin, can't see those same features, so they use other features for recognition. Blacks, for example, place a lot more importance on hair styles than Caucasians do.
If someone else has heard of this study and can post a citation, I'd really appreciate it.
Victor, yours is a very astute citation on facial recognition, hair styles IN differentiating distinctions amongst societies of peoples of colour as opposed to indigenous European peoples, et cetera. Although I don't have any particular lively reference to bolster your observation, as a student of philanthropy, I am driven to recall an out-of-print photographic treatise, "An Anthropological Cabinet", which contains many photos of sub-Saharan tribal peoples. Many of them resort'd to ritualised scarification to denote status and role in their societies. These, though a painful rite of passage, further add to dilineating individuals from one another. Quite an interesting point you've raised. This also brings to mind the incidence of colour-blindness. Food for thought. Thanks.
Always growing my hair and my base of learning,
Quenyan (RicK)
I used to think this situation was reciprocal until we had a guy from Red China go to work for us at the engineering office where I worked in San Francisco. After he had been with us about a month, I asked him what surprised him about Americans, and he said, "How different you all look from each other!" I almost fainted. Upon reflection, though, there was a lot of truth in what he said. Caucasians have blue and brown eye colors, blond, red, brown, and black hair, and straight, wavy, and curly hair. Other races mostly have brown eyes, black hair, and hair that is either straight or kinky.
Interestingly, most people in the face blind support groups have surnames that suggest they are Caucasian and from lands north of the Alps. We see a lot of interest expressed from those areas, and much material in languages other than English comes from there. We see almost nothing from Asia, Africa, southern Europe, or Latin America. Could it be that the ability to see faces has been less crucial in lands where the people are not so similar, and this is why there are more of us from those lands?
No one knows, of course, but it is interesting to ponder.
Bill
Great job, Bill. I had no idea that condition even existed...and it's interesting that hair actually helps you in identifying others. You did a fantastic job and, with your personality, you could easily be a nationwide spokesperson for your group.
Again...great job!
Brett
Thanks! Actually, I'm trying to get away from being the face blind poster child. [grin] When I discovered I had the condition, hunted down others, and started the support group, we faced a research community that was somewhat hostile to us, probably because at the time there were so few of us known that they saw no money in it. No one was going to provide any information to help us out (actually we later realized they had none), so I researched it over two years and wrote it up and put it on line myself. In the process, I gave the condition what is now regarded as its common name, "face blindness". The doctor you saw on the program found my material and was a ray of sunshine - unlike the others he wanted to work with us. He was a college kid at the time. He worked many hours with me, testing me, and talking to me about what the condition was like. He ended up doing his doctoral thesis on "me".
His investment of time in our little group paid off in spades. His work landed him a position at Harvard and then he moved on to University College in London, which if there is such, is a step up from Harvard in his field. He has decided working on face blindness will be his life's work, and he is already regarded as the most knowledgeable among researchers in the world.
About two years ago I egged him on to do a study of the general population to find out how prevalent it was, because I had run into a lot of people with it merely by "coming out" with mine. As many of you know, several MLHHers have it. Well, much to everyone's shock, his study revealed that 2% of the population has it! Another nearly simultaneous study in Germany revealed the same numbers.
So what we started twelve years ago lay mostly dormant in the public eye for about ten years. Once the public realized 2% of the population has it, public interest exploded. That is why the sudden interest. It has been mentioned of late on several of the national networks and in magazines such as Wired and People. I've been on national TV in Germany, and I will soon be on the CBC in Canada. And of course this show last week was the first national appearance of mine in the U.S.
I still make appearances if asked, but I don't seek them out. Unlike with the researcher I mentioned, it is not my life's work. Hey, I was an engineer, and I'm retired now! But as the guy who got it all started, those interested in face blindness do track me down and ask me to appear. I find it difficult to refuse, just like I can't refuse to answer the e-mails I get where I can tell people were crying on their keyboards when they wrote. They find out they are not the only one in the world when they read my material which explains all the problems they've had their whole lives. I guess this will be my life's work whether I want it to be or not, to some degree, though that has never been my plan. One just can't turn certain requests away.
Bill
...thanks Bruce.
Now everyone can see it.
I had forgotton all about it when suddenly, and for no particular reason, I turned
on the tv, flipped the channels and landed on Fox and there it was!
The mind is a mysterious thing.
hey Bill,interesting subject and you fur
looks great!
Next, Bill, you'll be on Oprah!
Thanks for posting this to Youtube, Bruce.
It's nice to put a voice with a name finally. That was a great interview and glad to see it went well. Plus a free trip to NY. It's certainly an interesting topic, and it's great that your work can help those out there who have the condition. It's hard for one to conceive of though -- for me, as it's the person's name I can never remember; the facial image is essential etched into memory. Thinking about things like this is a good exercise to apply to other situations in order to realize that other people perceive things differently - so differently that the entire concept is entirely understood in a different way!
Have a great weekend hopefully sans storms, Matt B.
Hey Bill
So glad Bruce was able to get this on You Tube as it sure beats a small cheap TV set complete with snow. Glad you were able to get that remark across to the kid that was also on the show. Bet he appreciated it alot!
Justin~
...I learned something new today (daily goal).
What a fascinating topic and Bill, as others have said, the topic was very well presented. So many times, shows like that will ridicule such a malady. And I am delighted to now know how to pronounce your name, know what your incredible hair looks like in motion and have heard your beautiful resounding voice...
Thanks for Sharing.
And thanks to Scooper for the post.
(don't miss his kitty video ! HA!)
Walter
Very nicely done, Bill!
Bob
Cool. I knew it'd end up available somehow.
Hi Bill,
I finally had the chance to watch the recording I made when I was at work yesterday. You did a fabulous job of presenting yourself, and spoke clearly and were easy to understand.
I had no idea that you had difficulty recognizing faces, and I could not even imagine how difficult it was for that family where three generations had this problem.
Although I do not have this condition, one thing I DO have difficulty with is remembering names and putting them to faces. It takes a few occasions for me to remember the name of people I have only just met, and have their names "burned" into memory.
Take care,
David
Very awesome Bill! You came off very well, which is a definite plus for those of us trying to change the negative stereotypes associated with long hair and beards,etc.
Also, I'm glad that Mike seemed to be positive about your look and even complimented your beard.
And Juliet. Mmmmmmmmmmm. With her, I'd fake having face blindness just so we can repeat having sex. My bad :(
Wow, that was cool being able to see it--thanks Scooper, and Bill your beard and hair looked great. I didn't recall that you were so thick on top : )
I see ignorance as a major cause of problems with intolerance in so many things: long hair, sexual orientation, poverty, even technical topics such as global warming. It's really sad.
Bill,
I mentioned in the other thread that at first I didn't recognize you and attributed it to the length of your beard. I'm thinking now it may have had more to do with the lack of a bandanna. Since you've mentioned before that wearing a bandanna helps others with the condition to be able to recognize you, I wonder now why you weren't wearing a bandanna during the show.
BTW, my mother commented that you looked like me on the show. I suppose she must have been looking at the beard and hair, since I don't think we really look that much alike.
Now that I have the long beard, the bandanna is not as needed for that. [grin] I still like its look and I often wear one outside, where the wind calls for it. They also can help your head lose less heat on a cold day.
In a way, now that I have the long beard, my mane moves more in concert with the beard if it is NOT held down by a bandanna, so I tend to wear my hair loose when the wind conditions allow it. I still see it as "a trademark" to some extent, of course.
I always have a bandanna with me, since one never knows when the wind will come up.
Bill
Bill, that is so neat. I'm glad he got that meaningful attention from you since he didn't get to do anything in the interview portion that aired. It sounds like the family had been on before so maybe he had a chance to speak then.
The interviewers weren't too impressive but you certainly came off well. I loved the contrast that you were yourself in jeans and sneakers but came off much more polished than the interviewers in their professional attire but painful to watch perkyness.
Bruce, thank you for posting this for us. You might want to add some tags so that people searching You Tube for face blindness can find the clip.
Elizabeth
Greetings Bill, wow! I had no idea that this condition existed...and what an eloquent and wonderful spokesperson you are!
Best to you and yours in 2008.
Max
I was very happy to be able to do this for Bill and my friends on the board. I also thought Bill came across very polished in the interview and it was a pleasure to see one of our own on a nationally broadcasted show.
There was more to the segment before the commercial break , but I didn't include it because it would have put me over the 10 minute limit. (and it didn't include Bill!) As it was, the upload time took almost 2 hours on a dsl connection.
Bruce
That was a very interesting piece and like many I had no idea it
existed. It's amazing the things that come as a result of the
internet and ability to connect with people and find out about
things.
As for mention of where was your bandana I would have been amused
to see you in the mushroom shirt. And of course it being Fox they
had to use a pic of Bush to see if he would be recognized. I
recognize him right away as he's on my dart board.
Kevin
And of course it being Fox they
LOL, that's great, Kevin!
It was an interesting show, i don't think i've ever heard of this condition myself up until now.
Great job Bill!
Thanks to everyone for all the great comments. Many left me smiling, and some left me chuckling as well! It took me awhile to decompress from the trip and to answer much of the e-mail I have gotten, and finally just now I've been able to go through all of your responses. To avoid cluttering the board I've limited responses to those few who asked questions, but the comments of all have been greatly appreciated! In a way I feel like a traveler who has just come home, and you all have given me a home-town welcome. As always is the case, it's good to be home.
Bill
There was an episode of Picket Fences that dealt with this, a man kills his brother. He claimed he thought it was a burglar, because the man couldn't recognize the face. It turned out, it was premeditated, the brother had been messing with the man's wife, the man recognized his brother by his distinctive walk. There was a doctor/expert who came to help, he fell in love with the police dispatcher, who was heartbroken to find that he "loved" her only because he could tell her from a crowd, she was very short.
Anyhow, this episode had me thinking. I always pick a combination of things to look for in people. Hair/lack thereof, moles, exaggerated features like VERY large lips or bulbous nose, odd color eyes, body type, and voices are very key for me. There are many famous people I can't recognize if all I see are eyes, nose and mouth.
When a performer has a different hairstyle in a different movie, I may not recognize them, or at least confuse with someone else until they speak. Madonna, Sharon Stone, Brad Pitt, and a few others are blanks to me, to try to call to mind their faces, to the point that in Mr. & Mrs. Smith, I figured out that the guy I COULDN'T recognize from scene to scene was Brad Pitt, the hero. How sad is that?
Welcome to the club. You and I aren't the only two on MLHH with that problem. [grin] There are several of us.
Bill
I'll have to make sure to have my hair dyed in some outlandish manner, so you'll recognize me!
I've bookmarked that link, and am reading your "book". Thanks for the info!
Nice to see you on TV, bill. It took me a while to view the video on YouTube as we still only have dialup. You did a fine job.
Our best hope of getting broadband may be if Obama is elected, as he has pledged that the Universal Service Fee on the phone bill will be used to extend DSL to every home. Otherwise, no dice. The TV cable crosses our lot, but they won't hook us up because they say it is a main cable, not a distribution cable. The annoying thing is that on the other side of the street they can choose between DSL and cable, whereas we will never have either, short of a political miracle.
I am not very good at recognising faces, but I did an online test (can't remember where) and it said that I'm not face blind. I do get confused between characters in films, though. I think I can recognise faces if I have to, but I still don't tend to use faces to recognise people anyway.
This may be because I was short sighted as a child, so faces were not recognisable for me at a distance, only close up. I think I compensated by learning other ways to recognise people, because it is embarassing when someone you know well calls you from the other side of the street and you don't know who they are. This had corrected itself by the time I was thirteen, enough to ditch the glasses, but not enough to recognise people across the street.
I had perfect vision at close range for many years, which has now deteriorated to where I need reading glasses. At least I had several decades inbetween when I had good eyesight at both long and short distances! Or, at least in my left eye, because I've never had perfect vision in my right eye.
Being right handed with a bad right eye mainly means I've also never been able to shoot straight, or hit a target in most games either. Mind you, at least if there had been a draft I would never have been called up!
Alun
You might want to get scooper to check and clean up the video's comments...some idiot left several bad ones and even though it looks like he was suspended his posts are still showing.
I dropped Scooper a note just now, in case he wants to do anything about it. Everyone knows to ignore anonymous idiots who post on the Internet by now, just like they ignore spam, so its being there doesn't really bother me much.
Bill
He has removed it. Thanks for tipping us off.
Bill