new thread
Part of being a longhair is choosing what you want....
As much as Chris is ambivalent about being a longhair there are those of us who never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever yeah you get my point give up our identity....
We are longhairs and we celebrate it....
It is part of me, part of my soul...
I sure hope none of you took what happened to me as a reprimand against longhair, that was farthest from my mind. I would never ask any of you to give up your identity, but I get the idea that you think I gave up my identity. I think part of being a person is choosing what you want. My choosing to cut was not giving up my identity, it was reclaiming it, just as surely as you claimed yours Jason when you grew yours out.
Sorry but I am a bit confused by your meaning in this post Jason
Chris,
I still love you....LOL
peace
clayton
Chris, I didn't take your post that way at all. I am 100% behind you! I was just saying that for some, long hair is not a choice so much as an inherent part of the psyche.
To make that differentiation I would hope would not be taken as an attack. I certainly didn't mean it in that way at all!
And yet, Jason, you had a few years of back and forth on this issue, as I recall. My only point in bring that up is that we all have our lives to live as they make sense to us at the time.
I never thought I would have long hair.
Then, I had long hair and thought I would never cut it. Didn't for 7 years.
Last summer, I did cut my hair. I enjoyed it short--for about a month. I don't regret cutting it. But, I have not cut it since last summer :) and it's growing back out.
Last night at a party, I was greeted by a friend who said in a celebratory voice--hey you're growing your hair back out!
And I am.
The beauty of this community, to me, over the years is how it supports guys where they are--whether that's cutting and growing and cutting and growing, or just growing, or making changes, trims, etc. Basic respect.
We have a lot to celebrate here.
Bob
So you're saying because I raise this difference I'm not showing Chris respect?
Yeah, I had issues, the whole giving up eternal life, family, friends that kind of thing....
But that was just my point, Jason. We all have our issues, life things to deal with, and we make decisions as best we can. In light of that, creating categories that amount to "true longhairs for life" and "others" doesn't seem to acknowledge that. You did not use these categories, but it did sound like you were saying that people like you would never cut their hair because it is the essence of who you are. That's wonderful, but you did, at one time, cut your hair, more than a few times.
I am of the opinion that life is always changing, and we respond as we will and as we can. That's all. I mean no disrespect for you in bringing this up. In fact, just the opposite--I respect your life, and its path, as well as Chris' and everyone else's.
Bob
Jason - I'm like you in that I'm determined to carry my protein strands to my grave. Long hair has been part of my identity for so long that I can't imagine anything else.
We salute Chris for having tried long hair. He'll carry the longhair experience with him all of his life. That's a good thing.
Ed
Exactly, that's all I meant.
Definition of Identity...
1: "sameness of essential charachter"
2: "individuality"
Definition of Individuality:
"special quality that distinguishes an individual"
(The above definitions were from Webster's New Explorer LARGE PRINT Dictionary.)
Question:
If a ravaging fire or horrible illness were to burn all the hair off my head, making it physically impossible forever after to re-grow ANY scalp hair back on my head, would that mean that I would lose my identity?
I don't think so!
One's identity is whatever is inside one's heart and mind, --- whatever one RELATES TO and MOST IDENTIFIES WITH. This means that it must be a sum total of MANY things, not just hair...
While I would be emotionally devastated if I could no longer physically grow my hair out, I would be doing myself a terrible injustice to then think I also totally lost my "identity" with it!
Besides loving and relating to long hair (which I *passionately* consider to be eternally PART of my identity), I also love and relate to the following additional aspects of what makes up "Ken" as a unique individual:
- I love and relate to other passions I have in life (like: gardening, cooking, being in the outdoors, hiking, photograhpy, art, being in the Redwoods, exploring beaches, etc., etc...)
- I love and relate to my friends and family (they have ALL influenced who I am as a person, and what kind of person I've become today)
- I love and relate to what kind of ETHICS are important to me (like: fairness, kindness, honesty, integrity, etc., etc., etc...)
- I love and relate to HUMOR (because without it, one cannot emotionally survive life's unexpected "curve balls" that get thrown our way)....
If one's identity were truly limited to physically losing or keeping one's long hair, then guys with severe MPB, thinning hair, or receding hairlines would have no hope whatsoever to cling onto...
Sorry, but I just can't buy that. Some of the longhairs I've met that I've admired the most are actually BALD! As long as I can possibly still grow my own protein strands long, I will; but, don't tell me that if some day I can't, that I then also completely lose my own IDENTITY... that's ABSURD!
- Ken
Ken,
I didn't mean it that way. Chris hasn't been burned. I am completely behind his choice but I was just drawing attention to the differences in why some men grow their hair long.
Jason
From my own experience, I cannot say it is as simple as that, Ken. A man whose long hair is part of his identity would not wholly lose his identity if he were to lose his hair; however he would emerge with an altered identity, and it may be a far less complete one for some people.
I am one of those people. Let me explain....
To live as a social being, the brain must classify people and tell individuals apart. These means are generally non-verbal; they do not use language. Dogs can tell people and other dogs apart, and they don't use language to do that at all. As it turns out, our brains are wired just like the dog's. We can tell various smells apart, and we have almost no language to help us with THAT, and we can do just as well without language when telling people apart.
It also turns out that we must have a solid concept of ourselves using the same scheme that we use to differentiate others, otherwise we will have little sense of self and we will not be able without great effort to put ourselves in others' shoes. Researchers have found that animal species which cannot recognize themselves in a mirror have almost no empathy for others. Schizophrenics may have more than one personality, but a man who cannot recognize himself has none.
Most people rely heavily on the face of people to sort humanity out, but we do use other things, such as characteristics of our social groups. Many men on here have that sort of attachment for long hair. These means of sorting others out often arise in childhood and like learning a new language late in life, the brain finds it tough or impossible to change these things when one is older. Men who say they are a "born longhair" or "a longhair for life" are in that category.
This is all very apparent for me because my ability to use faces is highly impaired. There are several other users on here with the same condition. However, this can apply to a lesser degree to anyone, because we don't just use the face for sorting people out. We use other things, and for some of us, long hair is important.
Having tried to "have short hair" for half a century, and discovering that NEVER worked out, and then trying "having long hair", I can see a dramatic difference. Growing out my hair caused my personality to finally emerge. At last there is a "me", and I show far more empathy for others. I can naturally do that now, and people find me naturally enjoyable to be around. There is also a consistency in my life from day to day that did not exist before. I have a sense of who I am, a sense of what my "reputation" is and how I want to be seen consistently by others. Achieving all that was a great struggle, and to some extent impossible, without my having long hair.
Indeed, per the title of your post, "identity is not really limited to a physical thing", but I must add that physical things are often a part of it, that they can be a major part of it, and that the selection of them, firmed up in childhood, is often unchangeable.
Bill
Although I don't suffer from 'face blindness', I can concur with you Bill in that since I have let my hair grow (face and head), I feel more complete and it is the real me, so it certainly does go deeper than just a 'look'.
~ Dave
Hi Dave (and also I assume Bill will get to read this, too),
For me, having long hair is also something WAY deeper than just "a look", --- and I believe I am also a "longhair for life", just as much as others who declare it here at MLHH. Although I don't suffer from face blindness, long hair has been something I have wanted ALL of my life, --- so I don't take having it on my head now "lightly" or "casually", since I've been through hell in order to finally achieve it...
I was only making some comments to counteract what sounded like an extreme view that Jason was putting forth, that's all.
- Ken
I'm not face blind (according to an online test), but I do feel that if for some reason I had to look at a different appearance in the mirror it could really mess me up mentally.
It's like when you have a blackhead on the end of your nose, but that's just temporary. If it were permanent (think severe burns) or even just semi-permanent (e.g. years to grow my hair back, and perhaps not even allowed to start re-growing for some reason) I suspect that I would curse every time I saw myself.
Maybe that's a weakness (vanity) but everyone has it to some degree. It's also an example of what the trick cyclists call dissonance, that is my self image and my outer image wouldn't match, and the urge to make them match would be like an itch I couldn't scratch.
Things like MPB and greying don't necessarily trigger dissonance, as they usually happen gradually, and for those of us to whom long hair is a big issue it is still possible to keep it long even if you lose it on some parts of the head.
OTOH, for the guy who gets hair implants you can reckon he does experience dissonance, and that his self image includes a full head of hair.
Likewise, some people get huge amounts of unnecessary plastic surgery for these sorts of reasons. Like if you are a black man and your self image is of a white girl, mentioning no specific recording artist, but we all know who I mean, LOL!
In guys like me, we've learned what happens if the face is turned off. In effect, what we've learned is that other things work too. They not only work for me, but they work to some extent for everyone. In guys like me, we've also learned how important it is to be able to recognize oneself. Much of this would never have become apparent had a few guys like me not happened along to turn off the bright light of face recognition and reveal all the less illuminated but nevertheless important means we recognize ourselves with and identify ourselves with that goes on underneath.
For many guys on here, their hair is important. You don't have to be face blind for that to be. It may just help to be face blind to see it.
Bill
Hello,
As a person with Asperger's Syndrome, ambivalence is something that doesn't exist in me, and I expect others not to be ambivalent over things they loved all their life. That has caused me to lose some friends, as I am considered somewhat rigid, however that is a reason I have long hair for nearly 30 years, and still refuse to cut it off.
I have been upset with wishy-washy folks, who never seem to know what they want, people who change their ways after so many years, and felt betrayed whe people change in the name of fashion or image.
People know me for who I am, and yet with time I have become somewhat more flexible. I have colleagues who cut off their hair at work, and yet it is understood that no one would even suggest me to do like them because "it looks better since they cut it off". My paranoia about others cutting off their hair, is when other colleagues use their example to convince me to do the same. However this has never happened, and those who tried often got a snappy and firm response from me. Being a good worker, I earned respect.
Very often I use as a running gag "When I used to have long hair", when talking about "the good old days", like "When I had long hair, admission to the Montreal Botanical Gardens was free, but today we pay through the nose". Yes I had long hair for so long, that there has been major changes in society, like when I started having my hair down my back, there was no Internet, Dukes of Hazard was a popular TV show, people talked openly about UFO's without being ridiculed, New Wave music was trendy, and Basic Language was included in personal computers. I have seen the short hair of the eighties, the mullets, the shaved heads, ponytails of the early nineties, longish hair of the early 2000's.
All in all fads come and go, and yet people will see me and say "Georges you haven't changes!", and people tend to be surprised to know I am still recognizable since 1979, despite having put on some weight since my late 30's.
Have a good day,
Georges in Montreal
George, don't be too hasty about saying you have some sort of mental illness.
Have a look at this, by Thomas Szasz, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry:
There's a whole industry out there that assigns unconvential behaviour to some sort of psychiatric illness. And when people are diagnosed with it, they start believing it more and more, and end up in worse condition than before. Every year dozens of new mental illnesses are made up by grouping together behaviour types, and assigning them as "outside the norm". There is no science behind it, simply a committee of psychiatrists who vote on the matter.
In ages past, differences in behaviour were called eccentricities, and eccentrics could just as well be madmen as geniuses, though that would often depend on opinion.
And that of course is what psychiatry is. After decades of work in the field, there is not one piece of objective evidence to support psychiatry. Namely, there have been no chemical imbalances found in the brain, and hence no physical condition to call an illness. Only observations and opinions.
Why is this done? Because the pharmaceutical industry is probably more profitable than the whole military-industrial complex, and we all know what they're capable of getting countries into. Just think on this number: 8 million children in America are labelled as in need of psychiatric help, and are drugged to solve "problems" such as ADHD.
So a word of advice, read up on the history of psychiatry, how it has often been exposed as fraud, and think twice before saying "I have such and such illness". Personally, I think a man like you in politics would be a good change from the flip-flops we see today, but then, that's the status quo isn't it, and psychiatry is one of the main agents of preserving it.
In regard to Chris. I respect your decision to cut your hair, and it's fully your choice, so I won't give you my opinion on the head hair. Might I add though that I certainly liked the moustache very much, and feel as though it's missing in that picture. Maybe grow back some of that facial hair? It looked very good on you.
Thomas Szasz on Psychiatry
Look derf26!, I have ADHD and Aspergers and this is not made up. My childhood was hell because of this!!! Part of the reason it was hell was because of shit like this! Take the time to know someone before making the assumption!
The presence of a particular type of behaviour does NOT constitute some sort of "developmental disorder". (http://www.loni.ucla.edu/Research/Projects/ADHD.shtml#CurrentResearch) ADHD is classified as a psychiatric disorder, with no real cure. Why is there no cure? Because no real objective cause is known.
A lot of behaviour sets can be classified into various "disorders". I'm not saying that the behaviour underlying them is non-existant. I am however saying that while the cause is unkown, while all tests to determine psychiatric disorders are based on qualitative measures and differ greatly from what a physician would do to determine symptoms, then there never will be a solution. If there is no objective way to determine a "disorder", then there is, for the time being, no disorder, only a behaviour that may or may not be harmful, and should be studied from the point of view of psychology, not psychiatry. What I do know though is that a large population of people, especially children, are drugged with things such as ritalin for most of their lives because of this, and from various studies i've seen the effects are either non-existant, or negative.
Please don't mis-interpret me. I'm not saying people with various behaviours don't exist, i'm saying the medical understanding of these "disorders" is so vague that from any objective point of view, you might as well not take any of it seriously. I'm basically saying, why is the government leading a war on drugs (doomed to fail like the prohibition) if the amount of people hooked on legal drugs of fubious purpose is far larger?
I hold the belief also that difference in behavior does not always constitute a disorder. There are some people who would like shyness to be considered a mental illness. Remember when homosexuality was an illness?
I have been considered as having AS by psychologists but never formally diagnosed, would I want my personality to be "cured"? Hell no !
Ok so someone understood what I was trying to say.
To Esdi, Carol, Juli and Nic, sorry about my post. I admit it came over as far too harsh and aggressive, and I ended up saying things I didn't mean to.
What I wanted to say is that I didn't like how mental illnesses were used as an excuse to brand people who were simply different as "wrong", which it in many cases is. I ended up saying a load more though, and it's true I've had fairly little first hand experience about it, so I ended up simply quoting information.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
... no one here ever said anything about having a 'mental illness.' that was yourself jumping to conclusions, and that is where the offense on our parts came in.
i don't consider my quirks an 'illness.' my doctor ran a slew of blood and saliva tests and found that my body was severely lacking in magnessium and somewhat iron deficient. magnessium is a natural muscle relaxant and promotes feelings of peacefulness in the brain. for me, replacing those minerals has reduced my panick attacks in a huge way, helped me somewhat overcome my shyness, and has cut back some of the o.c.d. behavior that was starting to get in the way of my life. it certainly isn't some sort of 'cure' and i like it that way. i like who i am, but i needed help seeing me through all of the quirky behavior.
i generally don't like it when people find out i have AS because then they think everything i do differently from them is because of that. once people think you have an 'illness' they forget that everybody has different personalities. but i also don't like people telling me that something isn't 'real' when it so clearly is.
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Exactly the point I was making. For some people, the diagnosis is quite real, and they do need those pharmaceuticals. Is there abuse in the system where peoople are labelled with false diagnosis and have pharmaceuticals imposed upon them? Sure! Are behaviors perceived as not 'normal', labelled as mental illness? Yes! I don't disagree with your point that people are being improperly diagnosed and medicated to comply with what is perceived as 'normal' behavior. I just disagree that everyone is being branded as a result of a diagnosis, especially when it comes to Aspwerger's, which is how this conversation got started.
You've learned something today, and not what you expected. Think carefully before making broad blanket statements on something you have no experience, expertise, or knowledge about. Apology accepted.
Carol
Derf,
That makes me feel a lot better seeing your last follow up. I know I lashed out hard, and my apologies if I seemed nasty, but I was upset. Negativity like that toward me tends to do that as I had a very rough time as a child. It felt very similar to being labeled as undisciplined because I have ADHD, and not because I have a true disorder. I am not at all undisciplined but the exact opposite. Sure as a kid, my attention span was very limited outside of any interests I had. Plus being very restless and impulsive didn't help things either. Same goes for being label as anti-social and odd because I have Aspergers. I am shy, and I don't open up much until I really get to know someone and feel comfortable around them. People still take me as odd tho, but thats what make me unique.
Yes, I do agree that it is wrong to use a disorder as an excuse or even a crutch. But for some of us, these disorders are very real and can be downright hellish. I had to work twice as hard as most people to get where I am at, but I have much more appreciation for the things I have accomplished too.
I am sure it is hard to comprehend such disorders if you never never been born with one. My sister lacks understanding of me and sometimes I get very frustrated and fed up with her too.
Mike
Derf,
Some things may be misdiagnosed, but I know for a fact that my ADHD was not. The meds I was put on for it help me as well. Without them, I would have been a train wreck. I am sure there is misdiagnoses out there. However, I do not believe I am one of those.
I wasn't trying to start a message war, I was just very upset because I feel I am being accused of having some "made up issue" when I have the real thing.
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I won't even address the rest of your post, 'cause I'm not in an argumentative mood, plus we Aspies really dislike conflict. George never used the words 'mental illness'. You did. Asperger's is NOT a mental disorder, it it neurological. It is a social and emotional disability, in only that Aspies are not like typical NT's (Neurotypicals, you so-called 'normal' folks). It is simply a difference in the brain's wiring. Some of the world's brightest and most gifted individuals have an Autism Spectrum Disorder. Not all are mentally ill, though mental disorders can be co-morbid. Many are successful, intelligent people who manage well on their own. Silico Valley is full of them. Director Stephen Spielberg is a famous Aspie. Check out neurodiversity.com and learn what Asperger's and Autism Spectrum Disorders _are_, and what they are not.
Carol
I have only yo remind you of the discipline called neuropsychiatry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychiatry), and to remind you that even commonly known "disorders" such as autism are once again, not based upon any scientific evidence whatsoever, and are diagnosed using qualitative tests, interestingly enough, those tests are often made by the pharmaceutical companies...
And before you use the "not a mental disorder", how come it's listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)? (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1750-3639.2007.00103.x)
I seriously recommend you do some more research on this subject, especially since you believe you suffer from it. Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but the way in which these things are determined are far too unscientific and too subjective.
And not a single pharmaceutical company markets a single pill for treating Autism. How IS that???? Current diagnostic testing was developed by researchers, including Tony Attwood and Simon Baren-Cohen, neither who, to my knowledge, have any ties to the pharmaceutical industry. If you know of a link otherwise, please point me to a source.
I used that because George didn't identify himself as having a 'mental disorder', and neither do I. It is a Pervasive Developement Disorder, according to the DSM, and the inclusion has been quite controversial. People with Autism cannot be treated with a pill, and many so-called therapies do more harm than good. Remember, the DSM once listed homosexuality as as a 'mental disorder'. It no longer does. And remember, you basically told George to not label himself with a 'mental disorder', which he never did. Because the majority of adults who have an Autism Spectrum 'Disorder'. do not see themselves as being disordered in any way. It certainly hasn't stopped us from functioning, we just function differently. Kinda like gays have and do.
Please tell me what research you have done regarding Autism? Asperger's syndrome? Start with website I gave you, and learn why autism and Asperger's are not mental disorders, despite their inclusion in the DSM. Do I have it? Yes. Do I suffer from it? Only from the social and emotional problems that resulted from a non-understanding neurotypical world, because I am perceived to be different. All I know, is that finding out what I _did_ have, was a relief, that there was nothing wrong with me, but with others perceptions of what I should be. Knowing answered questions I had, and significantly boosted my self-esteem. It's okay to be a braniac, have perseverations, dislike excessive social interaction, be quirky and eccentric. That's what neurodiversity is all about.
Carol
Well said Carol and I fully agree with you. My partner is an Aspie and identifying it was a relief and made dealing with the relationship so much easier. He and I have been together for 5 years now and life is good and I might add he's very successful
at what he does.
thanks you
Kevin
you have both stated some things very well and passionatly. here are my two cents:
carol - we have more in common than you would ever realize.
derf - please do not try to prove a case about something that you so clearly have no direct personal experience with. i have always respected your willingness to study things in depth, but there are some things you cannot learn without firsthand knowlege.
- i also have asperger's. i know the hell of growing up with very few friends. i know the hell of being made fun of every single day because the things i thought were fun (ex. reading the dictionary) were considered wierd. i know the hell of being the only girl in my high shchool never asked out on a date. i know the hell of being so depressed by it all that i tried to kill myself twice.
- like carol, it wasn't until someone told me what was 'wrong' with me that my life changed for the better. just knowing that there was a reason for it all was enough to make me want to live again. i finally found a doctor a couple of years ago that understood my desire to not be put on any kind of mind altering drugs. instead, he had me start taking a heavy dose of magnessium every day. the difference that has made in my life is astounding. i no longer go into a panic at the thought of doing my grocery shopping. i actually enjoy parties now. meeting new people is fun.
- i couldn't care less what scientific books or websites have to say about my 'condition.' what i do care about is that i found someone who took the time to get to know me, understand the way it was affecting my life, and made a diagnosis based on that reality. as much as i love to read, the written work still can't tell you everything you need to know.
- until you have some first hand knowlege of what we deal with on a daily basis, please do not try to tell us that what we live with isn't 'real.' science has yet to understand even ten percent of how the brain works.
with respect,
nic
No scientific evidence? You must be joking. Have you ever taken an experimental psychology course? Wait let me back up. Have you ever been to college and used SCIENTIFIC journals? Seriously. Ignant.
That guy lost any credibility with me as soon as he started talking about the "History of Psychiatry". Do he and Tom Cruise have the same speechwriters? They're throwing up a strawman.
A lot of people and institutions have negative things in their histories, that doesn't mean that they aren't on the right track now.
Like you, I march to my own drummer. Never been one for fads and fickle people. I may be a bit eccentric, or appear to be odd or strange, but I am happy with who I am, and anyone with a problem, it is theirs to deal with. I change for no one. The one thing people can say about me, is that I am always consistent and predictable. :-)
Carol
I'd like to say "hey there too", to you guys. :-)
How necessary was it to communicate this sentiment at this time?
I'm sorry I did. It was taken the wrong way by some but it would have been better if I said nothing.
Perhaps this is redundant to other responses but exactly who are you trying to convince here... Chris, the other members, or yourself?
When I see posts such as yours I am given pause to question the agenda of the author. The title read "in respect to Chris....but"... the "but" has the effect of completely negating its preface... which effectively expresses disrespect. I'm not saying this is your intent but it is an acknowledgment on your part that the sentiment was disrespectful. Anyone who has followed your incarnations on this board is aware of your emergence from dogmatic constraints imposed by your faith. There's no question as to the depth of passion you feel for your choice without your reference to Chris's decision. Perhaps there's a part of you who would like to evangelize Chris back into the fold?
Surely you have more class that to promote yourself as more "longhair than thou".
I'm sorry. I honestly meant no offense but I can see how it could be taken that way.
I think its time to move on with this thread, Jason is passionate about his hair and he has every right to be, and Chris is happy with his new beginning. I don't believe anything was meant by this post, passion comes through strongly sometimes and thats a good thing, Chris is mature and intelligent enough to understand that.
~ Dave
First off sorry I am grouping all these responses together but I am afraid if I try to answer each one separately I will run into the posting limit per day as I have before and that sucks :)
Jason, I am glad you explained what you meant because there was no way in hell I would have gotten that what you were saying was supposed to be support! LOL, it sure sounded insulting to me. I now get that you didn't mean it that way, I must confess that I will not ever really understand your point of view and your vehement defense of longhair as your identity. But I suspect that people here run in a continuum of passion for hair from people like yourself down to those like me, who thought it might be fun!
Clayton-you're da man! Thanks for the vote of confidence :)
Robert - I am curious, did you know when you cut it that you were going to grow it out again, or did you have no idea what was going to happen? Thanks for the support!
EdG- thanks for the support and thanks for pointing out to me that this was a life changing thing I did. You are right in that I will carry this experience with me and I now have my respect and appreciation for all the hard work you guys do in caring for your hair and the mental toughness you develop to keep it in adversity.
Ken - You expressed the same feelings about identity that I have, any single passion we have is part of our identity, not the whole thing. A subtle difference from what I was hearing from Jason. You are quite good at expressing these concepts Ken. Another of your many talents!
Bill - I know hair is important to your identity but I know how long we can chat without talking about hair! Lots of interests is the way to go!
nuttidave - the sentiments you expressed here and all those who feel and say the same thing are the dominant force here and I suppose at some point here at MLHH I knew I was "different"
in that I couldn't relate to the "born longhair" thing or the feeling that you weren't complete without it...until lately. I started seeing this stranger in the mirror and felt a disconnect, like who is this guy, he's not me. Perhaps for many of you the stranger is the short haired fellow and now you are getting to see a more familiar person every day instead of a less familair one everyday as I did.
Georges - I never knew about Asperger's until I came here (or face blindness for that matter, this place is educational in so many ways!). It must be very difficult Georges to have to live with it, for someone like me ambivalence and indecision are much more familiar and common than I would like. Perhaps somewhere between the two extremes of depression and Asperger's. Having either is no easy way to live.
Rob - thanks for the support buddy, I also was a bit offput as they say by Jason's comment as I didn't see it as he meant us too :)
Lurk Ness - wow that was some righteous rant (pun intended lol!) Now that I read all these posts after the drama has played out I feel bad for Jason as he didn't mean it that way, but yesterday I was feeling more like you did ! Thanks for the staunch defense :)
nuttidave - sane as always nuttidave, time to move on, thanks for the compliments and in fact sometimes I am rumored to be mature and intelligent, but don't let that get out!
Thanks Scooper!