new thread
I am at Bill's house now in San Francisco. I did not see the MLHH cards thread until now because I am on vacation.
This endeavor was undertaken by one individual without one word being said to other members of the crew, and trustee approval would be required before such an undertaking. If we do decide to have business cards, the trustees will be deciding some issues surrounding them such as their format.
As for showing people on the cards, legally this definitely has to be an "opt in" activity. The thread discussing the cards indicated that it was being approached as "opt out", which is not going to happen. Anyone who opts in will be required to sign a legal release which contains his legal name and address. We will not be able to accept legal signatures such as "Hairball".
I appreciate the interest many have shown for having the cards, and the crew will take that interest into consideration as we look at the issue. Also considered will be the level of difficulty involved in getting the legal releases and whether we want the site promoted in that way.
I have removed the thread discussing the cards because it contained images of people who had not legally opted in as discussed above. No one is to use, print out, or distribute any of those images without consent of the MLHH trustees.
See ya all when I get back!
Kevin
MLHH President
I'm sorry but I just cracked up when I reached that sentence, lol
And we now accept into the MENSA society...
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Beanz
I cant Quite see it
That my be so but I think Kevin is trying to cover the legal standpoint of the topic and card idea! Unless you have some great ideas that the crew should consider on that point.
Cheers,
John.B
All this legality stuff sux. But I understand the concerns. I will opt in when a form is ready to sign and mail to you all. Please keep us informed as to the progress or lack of on this issue.
I really like the cards with photos.
But, I'm wondering, if we simplify and have cards with just text, is this more "do-able".
I like my initial proposal:
DavidH
I'd drop the "Unity is Power" line. It's not like we are a marching minority standing up to the Man. Sure, long hair is easier if others around you have long hair...but it's not like we are banding together for any reason of power...
Perhaps a passive message like "We're bringing hairy back" or "Blowin' in the Wind"...
Really? I thought we are standing up to the Man. I have long hair for myself but I also like that it stands for being an individual who can think for himself and not let what the current government/society dictates decide something like hair length.
Yeah...but the whole "power" concept is still more like a slogan for a revolution. Like workers striking or a civil rights group protesting or rebels fighting the good fight. I don't really see us in any of those personae. We're just long hair enthusiasts living normal lives.
Kevin,
Thanks for this. I wondered if someone would raise the legal issues involved.
Let me raise another which is entirely personal. I simply could not see myself handing out such cards. I have been part of this community these 8 years because I at first needed support and then because I was/am able to lend support. I don't want to wear a t-shirt, drink from a mug with a longhaired man on it, wear a baseball hat with the logo on it or hand out cards.
I wear my hair. That's my influence in society, regarding long hair on men. I could no more hand out cards around this web community than I could bring myself to hand out tracts back when I was a teenager in an evangelical church that insisted that to be a good Christian, I had to hand out tracts. I know that no one is suggesting that, but it feels the same to me. If I encounter a man or youth who is growing his hair out, I encourage him. Period.
If such a man should ask for web resources, I would not hesitate to tell him about MLHH, and I wouldn't need a business card to do that. For those who find this sort of thing useful, that's great. I just wanted to voice that there might be some of use who don't.
Bob
I don't think anyone is suggesting it be required. Just another idea. To each their own.
I understand that. I just wanted to say that this is an idea that I don't go for. Pleased for others to go for it, but when something like this comes up, I find it useful to know that there are a variety of opinions about it.
Bob
Hmmm; I thought about some of this too. I also never went for the mugs and t-shirts because I thought wearing/using one was redundant. anyone who looks at me can see my hair; they don't need a t-shirt to tell them I have (relatively) long hair. However, they may be useful for supporters who have short hair.
Re the cards, I decided they may work under certain circumstances: In areas where people may be receptive to them (west coast U.S.?) and who is giving them out. Where I am, established longhairs, meaning men with hair at least mid-back, would probably not want to be approached by a stranger handing them one of those cards. I tried talking about hair with other guys a few times and it was always awkward so I quit doing it. Men starting out may be more interested but they are usually 1/2 or 1/3 my age--I am the last person they want to talk to about hair. I also figure most anyone who is seeking help knows how to use google (worked for me!). If there were no such thing as internet search engines I would be much more supportive of these cards and other promotions. However, that's merely my position as far as why I'm not interested is concerned; anyone in a position/location where they can be disseminated smoothly go for it.
To me this legal stuff seems to be a bit anal and taken a little to far. I always saw this board open to anyone, but now it seems to be taking a "members only" approach. This is the kind of attitude that really turns me away from places like this.
Someones has an idea, they post about, other people give good feedback... But NO! You didn't go through the right channels, so now your post is deleted. Are we at work? Are we selling products? Is this a education institute? NO! It's Internet forum for men who support long hair! The people that had their pictures on the prototypes gave their permission! If they want to be on business cards, so be it!
Lets all relax, drop this legal B.S., and have a good time. :-)
My two cents...
To be honest I've not noticed this "members only" thing you talk about and I've always found this board fun and very open and people being very positive. For instance the gift shoppe was a great idea and generated some funds to go to the cost of running the webspace etc.
For sure if some want's to float an idea and thats great and we have tge right to express our opinions and there are guidance faq's etc.
Like alot of public forums people give up their time to moderate and we have a great team doing that here. I know there are some legal formalities that have to be carried out and I'm sure that Bill can advise us that. I'm sure Kevin as President was covering all the bases.
Well that's my shilling's worth!
John,
I never thought there would be any legal issues with internet forums that were run by volunteers and were not for profit.
I get so frustrated with legal stuff these days. Seems there is always someone suing someone else. And the stupid warnings they put on things. LOL Its hard to imagine that people can lack such common sense. The other day, I was running some fiber cable, and there was a tag on it that said, "Orange Cable". I wouldn't be surprised if it was for a legal reason.
There are just to many darn lawyers!
BTW, how much is a shilling worth in U.S. currency? I couldn't remember.
Mike
Sorry, we are subject to the law just like everybody else. California, where MLHH is based, has strong protections for people whose images have been used for promotional purposes without their content. Our very large film industry and its large number of movie stars have exerted a lot of influence with this.
Or perhaps, some technicians are color blind? It happens.
Hey, I did my part in reducing their number! I gave up the practice of law about thirty years ago. Dick Cheney has also been working on that. [grin]
There are twenty shillings to the pound, and the pound is worth two bucks. This makes the shilling equal to a dime. We consider our thoughts worth only two cents on this side of the pond, but this just confirms what a lot of people who go to England have said, "Things are expensive over there!"
As for discussing the cards here on the board, that was fine. When this proceeded to actually producing them with an aim to printing them, that crossed the line. Just as each of you owns the right to your image, we own the rights to "Men's Long Hair Hyperboard" and "mlhh.org". These, too, cannot be used without our legal consent, and the trustees are the only ones who can give it.
Yes, we do have channels. These protect our users more than anyone else because our users are more apt to be affected by our actions than anyone. There are certain things that one man by himself simply cannot do.
Bill
No Worries then guys. I was just really thrown and surprised. I was worried that things were going to start heading in the wrong direction. I really love this board, and hate to see something bad happen to it. :-)
I was really worried it was going to turn into one of those heavily filtered boards were every post had to be approved before it was posted to the board.
Mike
Out of the last 1000 messages posted to the board, only 55 were looked at by the moderators first. This is an immediate pass-through rate of 94.5%. We would not call that "heavily filtered". It's enough to keep undesirables such as spammers out, so there is no need to twist the screws any tighter.
Many of our users post hundreds of times a year, by the way, and never get screened at all.
Bill
Bill,
That's a really good legit to spam rate you have going on here!
Mike
Amen. Not that I think anybody here would be printing out my image without permission; but I'm glad to know you're looking out for those of us who want to put some limits on where our image is displayed.
Yeah. Seems like a good move to me...
Not that the idea was a bad decision. But if the idea goes down darker paths...and suddenly MLHH is endorsing things or saying things when it really is not...
I mean like what if someone decided that we need a business card establishing a political view with MLHH on it...or worse yet, a "hate" message...
I guess my image is okay to use...but then again that would require some sort of actual paperwork...
Perhaps the old Gifte Shoppe was better and desgin on a t-shirt and mug was alot better. You won't be seeing me handing them out at Oxford Street tube station!
Cheers,
John.B