new thread
Having read through the concerns of long haired men about getting jobs with long hair and also the questions regarding how the employer accepts their employee's long hair in the Long Hair Survey on the Men's Long Hair Hyperboard, I wonder whether there is some kind of organisation of long haired men which will fight for their human right to have long hair without dicrimination.
I believe most long haired men who post their comments and questions on the Hyperboard are from North America where I believe there are constitutional rights to protect the human right of the individual to have long hair.
I have not however heard of such an organisation in North America, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, which makes me wonder why long haired men have not formed some sort of organisation to defend their rights.
Hey look, the civil rights movement among the Blacks have won them some protection against discrimination.
The women have fought for some kind of equality. The gays and lesbians have won some protection agains discrimination.
So why don't long haired men form some organisation such as a long haired men's union or association to fight for acceptance and protect themselves against discrimination?
After all, long haired men protested against the war in Vietnam, engage in pretty heroic efforts to defend the environment and so on but why not to defend themselves against discrimination?
Regards
Charles
I strongly agree with you charles. I kept my hair growing for more than a year and a half and when I put it in a ponytail to go work I was forced to cut my hair or tkae the risk to loose it. I am brazilian work for an american airline in brazil for 6 years and have a good position there. Even been a good professional, I suffered all kinds of prejudice and tried everyhting work with a short hair wig, ponytails, and finally three weeks later I shaved all my hair prefering to became a skinhead than a short haired guy. I'm 33 years old and depends on myself. I love my job and my hair too. Now I'm frustrated, still have my job but my beautifull well treatned bhair is gone.
Well, there IS an outfit somewhere in the country called the Men's Long Hair Farmers Union, or something like that.
I wonder if they've gotten John Deer to sponsor them yet... ;)
Tell me about it..........
I resigned from my job back in Sept because I was given the "big choice". Either keep my hair and quit or cut it all off for a crappy $6 an hour job :-(
Matt
I know, I've always found it rather funny that the salaried 30 - 40K
jobs don't really care how long your hair is, but watch out, Pizza
Hut will try to hold $5.50/hour over your head like the Sword of
Damocles!
there's a grasp of reality, hmm?
-Coyote Pup
Datapoint: They don't care where I work either. My salary is $80K+. I also work barefoot in hippie clothes. Groovy. :-)
Dear Matt & Coyote Pup,
Well, thats the unfairness of the whole damn thing isn't it?
I guess if you did not have to deal with people, such as working in a store, delivery truck driver or something like that they wouldn't mind.
What is so puzzing is why people in the late 1990's still have such prejudices against men with long hair?
Cheers!
Charles
Hi Charles,
Great idea!
But aren't most organizations like that for characteristics that people can't reasonably choose or change?
No one can choose their racial or ethnic background; and aside from a sex-change operation, no one chooses their gender. And I think most people agree that sexual orientation is not a matter of reasonable choice for most people.
But, hair can easily be cut short. Aside from joining a strange cult that demanded long hair, I'm not sure how a person would argue that it would be an unreasonable hardship to cut their hair. Aren't most of us doing it mainly for aesthetic reasons?
Consider the guy in the Guiness Book of World Records who has the longest fingernails. Call me unenlightened, but I personally find that unsightly, and if I owned, say, a nice restaurant, I don't think I would want an employee with fingernails like that to be near my customers. Suppose he was told he had to choose between his fingernails and his job. It took him many years to grow those fingernails, and he has had to take special care of them all those years. Is legal activism going to help him?
But I'm certainly no legal expert, so maybe someone who is can shed some light on that?
I'm not trying to be discouraging; I'm just wondering how practical the idea is.
Thanks,
8-)
Greg
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the compliment
I agree wearing long hair is generally done for aesthetic reasons, or for the sake of fashion.
However, by the same token, an employers might as well tell unionists demanding higher pay to go find a job in another place which pays more, rather than to demand higher pay in the place where they work. But will the unionists stand for it -- most likely not.
I guess we all have our likes and dislikes and we can end up discriminating against others who choose a different style or fashion.
Now I certainly don't particularly like the mohican hairdo, dreadlocks, baggy pants, skinhead, partially shaved head look or long fingernails, and If I ran an establishment, I might tend to discriminate in favour of regular, long flowing hair.
In fact, I regularly go to a music pub called X'tacy which is co-owned and managed by a singer and a manager of a video post-production house.
Its a cool place where people are allowed to jam and its waiters all wera jeans, a black X'tacy and most of them have long hair tied in a pony tail.
Perhaps if I ran a pub or clothing store, I would probably consciously or unconsciously prefer to hire only long haired men to work in the place.
However, if I was honest with myself, I'd have to be fair to all, long haired or otherwise, just as I expect others to be fair to me.
Well, has it ever been tried?
Cheers!
Charles
Religion is a "choice", but we protect that! In the name of religion, people have been given rights to wear yarlmukes, and the Sikhs in California have been the ones most vocal about a regulation now under consideration that would require state prison inmates to cut their hair! (In the name of religion, Sikh kids have also won the right to wear knives to school.)
Suppose a man had a horribly misshapen head, and a head of long hair could hide it? Why should he have to put up with intense social disapproval, when all he need do is grow out his hair?
Or in my case - I was born "face blind", and like many face blind people, I can only recognize people with lots of hair. I can also only recognize the emotions of people with long hair, and until I grew long hair, I was utterly unable to make emotions on my own face. This was a severe social disability. The difference long hair has made for me is incredible, and in ways that translate to better performance anywhere there are people, on the job, or off. Can I take anyone serious now, who tells me long hair is for me "a choice"?
The seriousness of hair discrimination is that hair is not an article of clothing. It cannot be removed in one environment and then installed in another. If one has a need for long hair in one environment, he must sport it everywhere.
No one knows more than this bunch that long hair takes years to grow. Perhaps this fact is lost on some folks who religiously go to their barbers every two weeks. But the biological fact is that long hair cannot be quickly put back on if removed. So removal of long hair is not a matter of UNDRESSING. It is a matter of DISFIGUREMENT.
From threats of disfigurement, I feel legal protection is definitely in order.
As a Sikh, I keep my shoulder-length hair covered with a turban
in the workplace. There is no problem, and there are 4 Sikhs here
working in two adjacent company buildings. Everyone understands.
I cannot wear the Kirpan (small Sikh ceremonial sword) openly
on the outside of my shirt. So I wear it under my shirt and
out of view. The company personnel people said that if any other
employee feels threatened by what s/he perceives to be a
"weapon" (and it is not, since it cannot be drawn from its
sheath), then the wearer of such an object (me) am at fault,
and must cease and desist from such behavior.
The company's purpose, I was told, is to provide a "safe and
comfortable workplace for all--not to endorse any particular
religion."
Both uncut hair (Kesh) and the Kirpan are symbols of the Sikh faith.
The others are: Kachhera (long undershorts), Kangha (a small wooden
comb worn in the hair), and Kara (a steel bangle worn on the right
wrist). All baptized (Amritdhari, Khalsa) Sikhs must observe these
five symbols or gifts of their faith.
Recently Sikhs have encountered prejudice. A Sikh professor
at Princeton University was denied service and asked to leave
an Italian restaurant in New York City because the maitre d'
considered the professor's turban to be a "hat," and demanded
that he take it off before he would seat the professor at a
table. Obviously, the professor rightly refused. The case is
now in litigation.
Also, in Maryland, a Sikh was denied a manager's job at a
franchise pizza restaurant because he would not shave off his
beard. Management's excuse was that "the public does not want
to be served food by a bearded man." The case is now in litigation.
Such is life in the good old U. S. of A.
--Loren
I posted a reference to this message on the beard and moustache message board. Check the board out if you have not already.
I would disagree with the notion that religion is a choice, as would
anyone else who has had their god choose them, rather than the other
way around.
I know, I was so disappointed when I found out that the kirpan can't
be drawn. I figured it was a wonderful religious doctrine to carry
a weapon at all times, then I found out that it's not a weapon...
It is in no way required of Asatruar (Norse heathen) that we have long
hair, but several devotional songs and sagas declare what a glory it
is to the gods to have long hair, and what a source of magick it is.
prejudice on the basis of religion? nah, never heard of such a thing
in this country.... and most certainly not towards a religion which
most people choose to be ignorant about. It's no mistake that this
country rated the lowest in history on Asimov's societal moral code
(where cultures are ranked on how well they follow their own, not
somebody else's, ideals).
which franchise? wonder if it was the same one which wouldn't promote
me unless I cut my hair and has a policy stating that all clothing and
appearance policies apply equally to men and women (and allows for
long hair on both).
-Coyote Pup
I'm surprised to hear that from you, since you seem to have made a rather deliberate choice yourself. On the other hand, if you truly BELIEVE in your religion (I think most do not), then you are exactly right. It becomes more a recognition of who God is than a belief.
When I first moved to the US from Guatemala, I was amazed that it was illegal to carry a blade over a given length (I don't remember the details). In any case, I was used to wearing a machete, even as a child. All males from about puberty on up wear a machete. It is not a religious item, however. It is entirely functional. You never know who you'll have to slay on your way to church (just joking). I think the real reason has to do with the climate (about 200 inches of rain a year in our town causes overgrowth to get out of hand very quickly). A machete is frequently required to keep the regular trails open.
Dear Loren,
You'll be pleased to know that in Malaysia, we have a small Sikh community who are allowed to wear their turbans even in the armed forces and the police.
In 1972, when it became law that al motorcyclists had to wear a crash helmet, the Sikhs protested and a concession was made to allow Sikhs to wear their turban instead of a helmet when riding their motorcycle -- and that concession stands until today.
Cheers
Charles