new thread
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/5888151.html
As yes the all powerful and knowing school system knowing best!
Cheers,
John.B
It's always Texas, and it's always rural districts. Well, nearly always. I did see one of these cases from Michigan.
It does seem that some of these cases have been resolved by agreeing for the boys to attend school in another district to the one they are zoned for, and there is some hint in this story that this option might have been offered, but refused. I can see why you might refuse, particularly if they won't provide a school bus to get to the other district, which they probably won't. Still, I would probably take that option - and complain like hell about it!
More generally, why do these people who live in small farming towns in Texas think that anyone who moves into town should have to get their kids' hair cut to look like them? Just because they can? Just to let people know to stay away from there? Beats me.
You know what's odd is that I live in as about a red-neckish corner of the US as anyone might ever hope to find, and even here, in the high school in the county where I live, there are guys who have long hair. A small farming town in Georgia. A fair number of guys have long hair around here. I don't understand why stories like this keep on coming out of Texas. We had the other one a while back about the high school student there.
Sounds like a winning law suit to me. The ACLU should be in on this one soon.
Oh yes, we must teach these youngun's that individuality is evil and conformity of the flock is necessary for a good education.
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Bruce
ive only had one inncadent were my teacher told me to cut my hair and that was beacause i passed when she said i wasnt going to cause of bad grade but i aced the finals and pulled it off and she noticed thts what i loved best
I wonder does the child actually want his hair long, if not he should just cut it, just because his father was Apache doesn't mean he has to be, my mother is Catholic but she never forced it on me (thank the heavens xD), on the other hand if he wants it long regardless of relegion he should be allowed! I do see where schools are coming from though, he is likley to get bullied if he has it long, people might be looking at him instead of learning ect ect
However I'm the only guy with long hair in my school and I was told to cut it but I just stopped going to school when I was suspended for not cutting it and so they called me in and I said I wasn't gonna cut it so the asked would I tie it up and I reluctently agreed, haha! xD Seriously though I consider myself lucky!
Apache is sub race. That's like saying he doesn't have to be white just cuz his dad was.
I think what he meant that the child does not have to follow the ways or customs of the Apache, although he is an Apache by his lineage.
Correct!
Doesn't matter. His parents do.
No. He's a minor -- a very young minor at that. His parents make these sorts of decisions at this age, and so they should.
Well, he's Apache whether he likes it or not. He can decide to go on his own and not follow the traditions of his family later in life, but he's just five years old. He does what his parents say.
Some might agree with you and this certainly seems to be the way the world works at the moment but I think things like religion, spirituality and image come into play when you're a teenager and every person should be kept free of them until they seek them out themselves..after all you can teach your children right from wrong whether they have long or short hair or believe in god or not right?
I really don't understand how they can control this.
I'm a teacher in a public school. I even had our superintendent (who was sitting next me once) tell me, "You have great hair. I wish I could have hair like that!".
Many school systems around the world restrict dress and
appearance in the name of maintaining order and a better
learning environment. the Japanese, Germans, many English
schools have uniforms and to varying degrees regulate grooming.
I wonder in the 21st century is the "maintaining order" argument
really that valid. Back in the day you could get spanked by
your teacher, way way back in the day They had "the switch" they
would whip your butt with. Today they would loose their job and
the school board sued. So if we can't beat children into
submission then I don't see cutting their hair will make any
difference.
It does always seem the rural districts which at one time were
quite isolated from the rest of the world but in these times not
so isolated. That is in some cases High speed internet can be
had even in rural areas now. satelite TV brings the world to
your front room.
Ah but this is Texas after all, "like a whole other country"
says the TV commercial promoting tourism. It would seem that way
sometimes.
Kevin
What would happen if he were a Sikh? Would Texas be complaining then? In this day and age people are bending over backwards to accomodate religious beliefs and what may be termed other cultures, yet still ignore those who they see as 'one of us' or one of the norm, those of cultures who have been taken over and forced to live as 'the norm'. They should be sued imo. I hope this family win if they do, because they should.
Sikhism - see Khalsa - http://www.sikhs.org/khalsa.htm
This is the same old power struggle.
The funniest thing is this comment: "The dispute illustrates a problem American schools have faced for decades: how to balance individual student rights against rules designed to maintain order and discipline in the classroom."
How is classroom disorder promoted by a boy having long hair when girls for ages have not provoked classroom disorder with their long hair? The author was just trying to be funny by punning on the word "tangle" I think, but I am not sure if the author denigrated the small town mentality or the boy's long hair -- I read it quickly.
I would question the logic of the rules the school has, but then oftentimes, rules have little logic.
Because a boy with long hair is different, it's much the same as saying no blacks, no Irish ect, if all the boys had long hair it wouldn't be a problem because everyone would look the same, they want conformity in school, it's like a uniform, do they have those in America? Not sure, but they have them in Ireland and while they're uncomfortable as hell I see why we have to wear them, so other people can't be mocked for wearing different clothes ect (and of course if people look the same they don't look as interesting so you can concentrate on learning instead of trying to read what someone's t-shirt says, haha!)
Stuff like this makes me sick. It really does.
And I don't see how long hair conflicts with a dress code. Hair isn't clothing lol.
Our school systems are a FAILURE from every aspect. Is it a surprise some still have the contrived notion that the learning ability is directly reflected on ones appearence?
I'm wondering...what would happen if the woman just tells the school board to go to hell and keeps her child out of public school? Would she have to enroll him in a private school (which would probably have the same hair code) or home school him? Would she be made legally delinquent if she just didn't enroll him anywhere for the time being? Anyone know?
I'm trying to hold my tongue here because this issue makes me boiling mad. Our society hasn't learned a damned thing in 50 years. This absurd issue was knocked around when I was in grade school during the 1960s and ten years later almost every boy in high school in my medium-sized Alabama hometown had hair down to his shoulders...and I don't remember society crumbling and the world didn't stop revolving. There were no discipline problems or "distractions" because boys had long hair. That's pure BS. In fact, I remember very few discipline problems at all, other than a few kids skipping school some days. I guess, according to that Texas town's mentality, the boys 30 years ago in Tuscaloosa, Alabama had been skipping school because they were spending the time styling their hair!
The issue in that backward Texas town is bullying control...nothing less. And that school board is WRONG. And I only wish they could be held up to the world with the ridicule they deserve.
Keep in mind that this is a "Texas thing". Most other states got over regulation of hair length in the 1970s. Concerning U.S. public schools, as I understand it, the laws are as follows:
As for the states where the question has not been considered, state courts give a lot of weight to what other state courts have decided on the issue, and since the Texas ruling stands alone, it is most likely that other states will not take their position.
All these comments concern public schools. In most states, private schools can make whatever rules they want, but probably not in California. The California Unruh Act includes private as well as public entities and would thus apply to private schools. It prohibits discrimination on the basis of hair length.
None of this discussion applies to employee rights, it applies to students.
A complainant can file in either state or federal court for protection from discrimination, and this discussion covers state courts. Federal courts have to date not ruled favorably on hair length cases so few suits are brought there. Most federal rulings cover employment, but the rulings are sporadic across districts. There is no consistent federal rule, and there will not be such unless either Congress passes a law or the Supreme Court takes up a case. Neither is foreseeable for now.
In summary, what you are seeing in this thread is primarily a Texas problem, and the Texas position is not likely to spread. Unlike every other contiguous state, Texas joined the U.S. as an independent nation, and to this day positions taken by Texans on issues can vary greatly from positions that are predominant almost everywhere else. Those of you who live in Texas have some work to do if that position is to change.
Bill
Lawyer Bill,
IANAL, but doesn't Title IX apply here? If they're discriminating against long hair on boys only, that's sex discrimination. Title IX doesn't make it unlawful, but does prohibit them from receiving Federal funding. I assume most public schools receive at least some Federal funding.
Also, I love the irony of this line in the article: "The case also shows that some rural Texas school districts often have stricter grooming codes that reflect the traditional or old-fashioned values of small-town America". I guess Native Americans just aren't traditional or old-fashioned enough!
Title IX is federal. The federal courts have not been kind to long hair, as Bill points out.
If the public lets judges get away with it, they will stretch the truth to the ends of the earth to rule as they want. This is one of those situations. Federal judges have ruled quite consistently that having different standards for men and women is not sex discrimination, despite the fact that any third grader of average intelligence knows better.
There have been many other instances of this. Saying that the draft is not involuntary servitude and that setting racial quotas ("affirmative action") is not racial discrimination are examples.
Bill
When you're right, you're right.
I am glad we do not have those restrictions in Washington. My private high school does have a dress code, but I saw a few guys wear their hair long at my high school.
Regardless
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Yeh! texas. big surprise there. That's a state that has gotten us into 3 wars. Mexico, Vietnam( pres. Johnson from texas) and Iraq( Bush). I would be willing to cut a deal with the illegal immigrants
that would give texas back to Mexico. Hey texas please take your lone star back to Mexico.
Interesting logic. Wrong, but interesting.
Mexico allowed people from the US to settle in Texas after getting the Texas territory from Spain. Texas wanted to be a part of the US; Mexico declared war on the Texas territory to keep that from happening.
Eisenhauer was the first to send military "advisers" into Vietnam, followed by Kennedy sending in almost 15,000 troops to "win the skirmish". Johnson is known for the escalation of Vietnam, but did not get us into it.
I guess one out of three is pretty good for a northerner.
The reason Texas wanted to be part of the U.S. was that Mexico outlawed slavery, and Texans from the U.S. wanted to keep their darkskinned "property". Texans quit mentioning that about the time of the end of the Civil War.
Bill
Them's fightin' words. Bush is a Yankee. He was born in Connecticut. Oh, you meant the elder Bush? He's also a Yankee (Massachusettes).