new thread
His hair's teased there for extra volume, but you can get a pretty good idea of how his hair is
Interesting. Not to be rude or anything, but he appears in the photo like he's a woman at first.
Regardless
My MySpace
He's a glam rock guy so it's sort of on purpose, he does the whole rock n' roll gender bending space alien thing ^_^
Does his group have a name? Do they actively perform? Recorded?I surely wouldn't know. I can see why Regardless has made the comment that he has.
His band is called "Glass Doll" They have an EP out, and are working on their full length album. Personally I think his androgyny is quite sexy, not that there aren't masculine guys (who are long haired as well, short haired guys just don't *do it* for me) who do it for me as well, but I do think he pulls it off in a way that's very appealing.
Here's what he looks like when he's being more masculine.
Mmmm..that's a very "modelled" pic from the library!
Er, sorry it's early, but what?
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb9/MadeiraDarling/DSC04473.jpg
And another of him, with pigtails
Very cute pic. I live in California, so he looks perfectly normal to me.
This thread is pretty unconvincing.
...Are you questioning whether that's my boyfriend or whether I am in fact female, as I'd be happy to present pictorial evidence of either
Proof that I'm in fact me. I know I look like a total hag at the moment, but that's because I got no sleep last night and haven't any makeup on
...and us being a couple
You are very beautiful, stunning. He, confuses me. No offense, it's just kinda creepy to me, :P.
He kinda does it to freak people out, so I suppose that means its working
you are beautiful and stunning like DJ said but the bf is freaky in a way lol :P
This is your second rude comment I've read.
Some people might say the same about you if they judged just by your avatar pic ;-)
i agree with ChrisG , you know dont talk all that shit man is all i got to say! :)
Your point is no more constructive than his. Both are attacks using "you" messages.
What I would suggest, is rather than him saying that the "bf is freaky", he reword it to an "I" message which gives an opinion without attacking. Instead, he could have said "I find the whole androgeny look freaky". This expresses his opinion about the look, but doesn't put down the person, per se. Even better, would be to not voice that opinion at all, to someone supportive of an androgenous person. But at least it can be worded in a way which isn't a personal attack.
I think you and I are on the same wavelength regarding this, but we'd part ways on how to respond to the perceived bias expressed in this thread.
I think what you're referring to is called E-prime. From wikipedia: "For example, the sentence "the movie was good" can become "I liked the movie" using the rules of E-Prime, which communicates the subjective nature of the speaker's experience rather than directly imparting a quality to the movie".
I've found out about this a few years ago and have been meaning to discipline myself into speaking and writing this way, but keep forgetting to lol. I guess I need to make more of an effort.
I haven't heard of it using that term. Back in the days of studying effective communication, we referred to it as using "I" messages as opposed to using "you" messages. Of course, that was over 10 years ago, but it's the same general idea. Always a better way to communicate, and more likely to resonate with your audience.
OK, now it's MY turn to wag my finger about how someone's Ruining It For The Rest Of Us. My apologies...
I realize that the way I occasionally look might freak people out, but it's certainly not why I do it; I do it because I personally like it best. I don't feel any need to justify myself (well, not much). Saying you do something to freak people out leaves you open to the accusation of not having your heart in the right place--and as a means of increasing tolerance of "the Other", it generally doesn't work. People don't feel challenged, they just feel threatened, and that doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Of course, "freak out" could mean a number of things, too...
Thank for your clarifying that with a picture!
I do declare: A thousand words hath been posted. :-)
Try the library in Norway!
ummmm he looks like a woman no offense lmao
He gets that a lot... all I can say is, he's not one, either that or he's got eight inches of explaining to do.
I found the "8 inches of explaining" part really funny :D
But seriously, if his girlfriend is happy with his appearance, what more could one wish for?
To all of you guys critisizing his appearance, if you had a girlfriend that defended you like that, would you give a damn what others thought of you?
Lmao..I wanna hug you so bad right now...omg maybe I'm Gay =X
I'll take that as a compliment lol :P
=P I guess..I was just happy to see someone else stand up for him...that and I love hugs ^.^
Dude hes all skin and bones! And it doesnt help that he looks like a girl but are you positive if thats his real hair cuz it does look fake
Sorry if I sounded rude but thats how I feel
It's real, I'm the one that does his hair and make up, so I have intimate experience with it *laughs*
His hair's teased there for extra volume, but you can get a pretty good idea of how his hair is
Well, since many people are comenting, I'd like to leave my opinion too, specially since my field is fashion he he =D
I think your boyfriend looks very daring, and that is so awesome. There should be more people like that. He's got a very personal sence of style, even for the rock type you described. I think the androgynous look is great, not only it's very modern, but also proves another side of masculinity, which is, he's not afraid of being feminine - well, just like most girls are not afraid of being masculine a lot of times!
My congratulations for him! And you are really beautyfull indeed! Great looking hair both of you!
Thank you very much. I've always kind of thought it a very masculine trait not to be afraid of being girlie, after all it takes a real man (one who's very confident in his masculinity) to stand up to all the shit one gets for it.
I completely agree with Joao David.
Hiya =D He has an awesome look! I have a little thing about fashion...as long as you can pull it off, go for it. ^.^ I happen to share a warddrobe with my mother simply because they don't make my size in good ol' America lmao.
You two are the most amazing couple XD seriously...I'd want my picture with you. I'm mainly only a fan of classical music, but I'd love to hear his band just 'cause he looks like a great performer, which sells anything more than the style itself. =)
I have to say I'm quite shocked at the "community's" responses to this, as longhairs are "discrimated" against every day. I thought this was a place guys with long hair (regardless of something as trivial as personal style choice) could go for some support, not fear and criticism.
First a "political scandal", and now this? What next? o.O it seems like the moral roots here are losing their strength....just my opinion.
<3
Tristram
I too was surprised at the critical comments. We regard "You look like a girl" as an insult; here we are basically saying this ourselves. Very hypocritical in my opinion.
I was trying not to say it in so many words =) but yes, those were my thoughts.
Thanks ^.^
Tristram
There's a difference between saying a man looks like a girl for no other reason than he has long hair (the insinuation being that long hair is for females only), and saying the same thing about a man who has set out to look feminine, and has succeeded in doing so.
There are some people who thing that any man with long hair is trying to look like a girl. Others think long hair on a man looks quite feminine.
Why are you assuming this guy is trying to "look like a girl"? Just because YOU think he looks feminine?
Maybe because Madeira stated that her BF does this androgeny thing specifically to bother people as she said:
He's a glam rock guy so it's sort of on purpose, he does the whole rock n' roll gender bending space alien thing ^_^
He kinda does it to freak people out, so I suppose that means its working
Maybe you should read the posts more carefully before sticking your foot in your mouth.
I'd love to hear his band just 'cause he looks like a great performer, which sells anything more than the style itself. =)
LOL!
I'm afraid you're right about this more often than anyone cares to admit; we're supposed to be living in "anti-image" times, but I don't buy it for a minute. It's just a different image.
Of course, if you wanted the best of both worlds (rock-star flamboyance with classical brains), you could always listen to Yes or Genesis or Emerson, Lake & Palmer! ;-)
I love classical music, and I LOVE Prog Rock! I recommend any classical lover voyeuring into the rock world try it. Bach fans might find Rick Wakeman a great listen (starting with Six Wives of Henry VIII), it doesn't hurt that Wakeman is a lifelong longhair, with straight golden-blonde locks. If we are going to talk classically influenced Prog Rock, The Strawbs and Renaissance are at the top of the list, along with Yes and ELP. Genesis was Prog Rock in their early Peter Gabriel days, but drifted later.
I don't know many modern bands =X but if you like classically influenced modern music, give My Brightest Diamond a listen, Carol. =) The singer went to a music school in NYC studying Mozartian opera.
That's OK; the bands we've been mentioning are actually Seventies bands. Still, if you want to know where Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins (do you know at least those names?) really started out, check out early Genesis, especially their 1973 album Selling England By The Pound. ELP had a history of doing adaptations of classical pieces, including Bela Bartok's "Allegro barbaro" and Aaron Copland's "Hoedown", as well as a rather slow "Mars, The Bringer of War".
If you're into Renaissance music (not the band), try '70s band Gentle Giant. It kinda throws Dowland, Hendrix, the Beatles, and Hindemith into a blender.
if you like classically influenced modern music, give My Brightest Diamond a listen, Carol. =) The singer went to a music school in NYC studying Mozartian opera.
This is interesting--kinda that neo-retro post-punk post-rock post-modern "indie" vibe, which isn't normally my cuppa, but not bad at all.
Sorry for not being Carol, but I thought I'd respond anyway. ;-P
My Myspace page
Did a quick search for Glass Doll and found the MySpace page - pretty cool tracks on there. Also found your LiveJournal - awesome pics with the skirt! I won't post the link but that is bad ass and the look I hope to have from time to time with long hair.
~Z
So which library was it taken from as I hear it's good up in Norway under or under certain bridges!
I don't understand your posts on this topic. Library? Modeling? Bridges? What are you trying to say, John?
Well I thought it was quite obvious! Why don't you share a pic of yourself if you say you hair is that long..:-)!
Why of course. A picture is worth a thousand words. And, a thousand words is worth a picture. Good point John.......let this poster share a photo with all of us. Who knows. Perhaps it should be framed. :-)
OK now my time to chime in I guess.LOL.Actually I'm surprised at all the controversy this thread is producing as I think this dude has an awesome look.I believe he and his hair are genuine and I personally like the lean,skinny look as well as his glam rock wordrobe.It reminds me of bands like Poison and Cinderella in the heyday of 80s glam metal.Hey if you got the look and can pull it off then why not.So that's my take and that one shot of him in the skinny jeans is priceless:)
Mark
Thank you so much, that's exactly what we're going for! He's a huge fan of Cinderella, Poison, and all of that other good stuff from the 80s
Well that's cool and he carries the glam look well.It helps too that he is very lean as otherwise it might be hard to accomplish his image.Its too bad that the pics of your boyfriend are making such a negative impression.After all if he's satisfied with his looks then whats the problem.Oh well everyone has their opinion I guess but I think he looks cool:)
Mark
.Actually I'm surprised at all the controversy this thread is producing as I think this dude has an awesome look.
Yeah, well, Metallica...
I'm not surprised at all. Plenty of people, not just long-haired men, whose look or taste or whatever might bear one deviation from the standard seem to want just their own deviation acknowledged. I can understand that; different people like and dislike different things, and people can get defensive when they see someone else "going too far" with something, for fear that the whole thing (again, whatever it is) might come crashing down. But we need to understand that "the masculine" and "the feminine" are fairly fluid concepts in a way that "male" and "female" aren't, and that, yes, these things are largely learned from a very early age.
I realize that this might prompt people to invite me to "put up or shut up", which is also quite understandable. So here goes:
1. http://web.mac.com/r.t.kilpatrick/Koneko/Whitby_April_2008.html#57
This was taken earlier this year in Whitby, North Yorkshire, UK, by a Net friend named Richard Kilpatrick; we were in town attending the Whitby Gothic Weekend festival (not together, but at least in town). It even gives my name. You should also see it at the bottom of this post.
2. http://www.secretroom.net/visuals/v/SkinTwo/Skin+Two+2008+-+Marilyn+Chen/MC08_SKin_042.jpg.html
And here I am, ahem, "all-out"; Marilyn Chen is the photographer, as you might imagine given the context. Thank goodness the shadows play down the fat on my face! (In case you're wondering, earlier that day I'd had my hair relaxed using what they call "the Japanese treatment", a combination of relatively light chemcals and a flatiron. Terribly expensive, but I love not having to fight my own hair any more.
Please let me know if either of these doesn't work. Thanks in advance.
You have that Robert Smith of the Cure look going on there. Yet another well-known androgenous person out there.
Madeira Darling, I believe you! The photos of you, and you and your bo, evidence enough! I think the problem is that the pics of your bo look so well staged or posed, that they could have been pulled from a fashion mag. But bravo to the photogragher!
I think you make a striking couple, so what if he has that androdgenous look. I say "viva la difference"!
Bruce
... and along with that, the other word-of-the-day is "Tolerance". It may not be your personal thing, just like long hair is not others personal thing. If you want tolerance, you have to be willing to express tolerance. It'a two-way steet folks, get my drift?
Androgeny has been around since at least David Bowie and the 1970's glam rock thing. Not every male can pull it off, bravo to those who can. I think Madeira's BF pulls it off well. He has the slender body build and bone structure that gives a feminine quality. Maybe I'm a bit more tolerant in this area, and a bit defensive, because I am genetically intersexed, and recognize that gender is a very fluid thing. Has anybody ever looked at portraits of Louis XI of France? For a male, he sure wore a lot of lace and pastels! And have you seen those shapely legs poured into those tight leggings?
Whatever happened to the idiom, "If you ain't got somethin' nice to say, keep yer trap shut!"
I really don't think this is the issue Carol, Madeira stated that her BF does this androgeny thing specifically to bother people as she said:
He's a glam rock guy so it's sort of on purpose, he does the whole rock n' roll gender bending space alien thing ^_^
He kinda does it to freak people out, so I suppose that means its working
So I don't think the tolerance thing applies here. Rather our response is exactly what he wants so rather than being hurt by our opinions (which he deliberately causes), I am sure he would be proud of his handiwork.
While this look freaks me out as it does some other people here, there are some who don't have that reaction. I suspect that nothing said here about the guy would hurt him in any way so Madeira you definitely should tell him about the posts or have him read them, he will have a good laugh! (I loved the eight inch joke, that single thing made me instantly like Madeira more) :)
Not THE issue (there happen to be a few issues), but one that struck a chord and resonated with me. Without pointing fingers, and quoting specifics, my comments were directed to the "you" messages in which the BF is referred to as "freak" and "looks like a woman". Longhairs have to deal with these comments; I just find it ironic that they would use the same language to denigrate another, that they don't like directed at themselves. One can make an opinion with an "I" message, and state it is not your thing; but let's not use language that we would find offensive towards ourselves, toward another person.
I noticed Madeira posting back to those who used put-downs, in defense of him. I sensed that she was a bit put-off by some of the remarks made. The BF hasn't posted, so no one can really say how he would react. But Madeira was definitely on the defense regarding some of the comments made. If longhairs want tolerance, they have to show tolerance. When a longhair calls someone a "freak" or says they "look like a girl", it's kinda hypocritical, don't you think? I do! I respect your take on this, but I stand by mine. And as I read this thread, I see others echoing the same point I made, which I am glad to see.
PS I saw your thread much further down the board, and see you are trying the longhair journey again (any chance of adding a 'stache to that? ;) ). It seems that you are doing well with health and your job. Maybe this time you'll keep the hair. Nice to see you back.
No applause for me? Oh well, then what's but another "Cat-Call?" LOL :-)
Take care "Just Carol."
Oh boy, I nearly collapsed from lack of oxygen! Dear jesus, what would your "dad" say!? lol! HA HA HA!
Hey Chris
Please don't collapse. Lack of oxygen is bad for ones health. In fact, THIS is the very reason my Dad can no longer talk! All he can do is appear to sleep..........and it's 6' under!
RIP
Justin~ :-)
Wow...lovely....giggle! Love the eye shadow!
Actually you remind me of this one very cool sixties activist. He had long hair, and a great big beard, and wore glitter eyemakeup... he was a pretty cool guy who worked against human rights violations by the CIA
Hey.........at my age I am just thankful that I might be able to remind anybody of anything no matter what it is. LOL :-)
Was this picture done for just this occassion? (Photoshopped), or is there a secret life you have been keeping from the hyperboard? :D
Carol,
Thank you for being supportive of this man. I am a 57 year old male. I like to wear a barrett. And I like it a lot because I know people don't like it. So I am very supportive of this man's feelings, and androgeny period. I think of myself as "male", not "man".
And I have come to have a high regard for cross-dressers, transvestites, etc. They are very courageous. And I believe the world is lucky to have them. And I am so happy to live in a time when I can be more true to whom I am, and who I need to be.
I think the response of at least one of your repliers was mean.
For any man with long hair, it might do well to remember, it was only about 40 years ago when you might have been called a girl for having long hair. There was a song in the 60's "Are you a boy or are you a girl. With your long blonde hair, you look like a girl.."
There was a song in the 60's "Are you a boy or are you a girl. With your long blonde hair, you look like a girl.."
LOL.Hey I have that song on my ipod thanks to our good friend Stormy!BTW anyone heard from him as I do miss his weekly hair music downloads.
Mark
it was only about 40 years ago when you might have been called a girl for having long hair.
Not even that, really. I've gotten it a couple of times myself.
Kids are especially susceptible. I think the problem was that the hippies back in the '60 (bless 'em!) weren't thinking about what their little brothers and sisters back home might think; they were just thinking about The Grown-Ups and The System. I guess they figured the young-un's would be on their side, but it didn't work out that way that often.
Panurge,
You are right about "not even 40 tears ago". Nobody has said anything to me. But I am a long-hair newbie. I probably would have been afraid to grow long hair when I was young.
And you are right about the pressure on kids. For them to feel taunted or be taunted and still waer thier long hair is very courageous.
And I feel so happy to hear about a parent being supportive for thier kids autonomy.
17. Are women and transgenders welcome?
Our site is intended for men who want to look like men and consider long hair to be part of that look. Unlike with women and transgenders, having long hair puts a man in a small minority, and our site's purpose is to support that minority. Women and transgenders are welcome if their purpose is to support men who have long hair. There is infinite room on the Internet, and others are free to set up their own sites or visit existing sites if our site's focus does not meet their needs.
With that said, I don't wee why people stating their opinions of this man/woman's androgyny makes them hypocritical. In fact, they are being honest. He/she was told that he/she looks like a female not because of the long hair, but because of the overwhelming feminine appearance. There is a BIG difference between having long hair and intentionally looking like a woman. I find these images repulsive.
Chris H
Yes, keep in mind that the site is about men's long hair (look at its title). It is also a support site. It is not supportive of the site's target audience to have posts from the buzzboard crowd or from the transgender crowd, because these topics go beyond "off-topic" to "contra-topic". They take an opposite approach to what this site advocates in support - that long hair is attractive and is masculine on men. To give support to our target audience (many of whom find buzzboard and transgender posts repulsive) we have always asked that such posts be made elsewhere.
Interestingly, we seldom get posts from FTM transgenders (the ones that are female and want to be men). They go for a short hair look because they feel short hair makes them look more manly. We get posts instead from MTF transgenders because they feel long hair makes them look more feminine. Their motivation, which of course they are going to mention, is not supportive of the many users here who have been taunted about long hair looking girly. They don't want to hear that any more than they want to hear that short hair is what makes men look masculine. That is why the site here has not posted BuzzBoard or transgender material.
Bill
Thank you - transgender is not what this site should be about.
Excuse me, but he's not transgendered. He's male, happy to be male, and in my mind a very masculine male. If you met him I'm sure you'd agree. He's 100% man. Androgynous appearance does not a transgendered man make. He's interested in looking like A GUY, albiet a pretty one. I don't think David Bowie ever looked like a woman, regardless of feminine affectations, he had long hair, and wore a dress on one of his early album covers, and still looked like a "real man"
In fact I think Bowie is more man than most people will ever be.
Just mine two cents
Well said. Sadly, I think some of the previous posters exhibited a lack of tolerance and the same tendency to categorize people as those who criticize men for having long hair. I think you and your boyfriend both look great.
you have a way with words like no other in being able to express yourself and get right down to the point.
BRAVO!
Justin~
Thanks Chris and Bill as I was at work I didn't see the post get out of hand.
Bill you will be sorely missed..
Kevin
I couldn't have said it any better than Madeira. Androgyny =/= Transgender. I consider myself to be Androgynous, although you can't tell from my dated photo. I do not consider myself to be transgender, or a woman. I consider myself to be an "Androgynous Man". And as far as you saying you find those images repulsive. Well, that's a very hurtful comment you probably should've kept to yourself. You were way out of line for saying it.
That I have a problem with, as much as HOW they state them. "You" messages that attack a person directly are just plain hurtful. "I" messages that comment on a style or look, rather than the individual, are something that shouldn't be suppressed either. One can render an opinion, without it being a personal attack.
Examples from this actual thread.
"You" messages:
bf is freaky
he looks like a woman
he looks like a girl
"I" Messages:
No offense, it's just kinda creepy to me
this look freaks me out as it does some other people here
Well, not "my cup of tea", thanks; but, am learning to be more tolerant of "the androgynous look"...
I don't personally find drag queens or other males that are dressed up to look like women "attractive" in my own eyes
As I look back through this thread, I find that the kind of messages are reflective of the maturity of the individual. some of the younger crowd has yet to build up a tolerance for others that necessitates the expression of opinions in a constructive, rather than destructive, manner.
The opinions of those objecting to some of the intolerant expressions made, are just as valid as the opinions of the OP's BF. The problem is when opinions cross the line into personal attacks and snide remarks. Unfortunately, when dealing with people, we are going to have this. All I ask, is that if people are going to comment on the young man's androgeny, do so in a constructive manner, or not at all. The posters come to MLHH to get away from "You" messages, and post pictures looking for feedback using "I" messages. Criticism should always be given in a constructive manner.
I think your boyfriend's hair is great! I think his hair looks best in the one when he's sitting on the windowsill. (I will refrain from commenting on the makeup and clothes ;-) I personally feel that men can wear any hairstyle.
His hair is in much better condition than the majority of hair in the pictures posted on this site. I think that might be why some questioned whether it was real. It's obvious that he takes care of it.
Concerning all the negative comments....
1. Comments about transgender....
This guy is not transgendered. Glam rock does not equal transgender. She posted here because her boyfriend has long hair. It just happens to be well cared for and styled. Sorry if every long haired guy doesn't have the rat's nest thing going on...
2. Negative comments....
I restrain all the time from making negative comments here on this board, even when a poster is requesting comments. There are so many pictures posted here where the guy's hair looks like holy hell. I ofter wonder if they purposely choose the very worst picture of their that they can find to post.
3. Feminine vs. Masculine....
It is personal opinion about whether you find someone's hair feminine or masculine. There are many people who honestly find all long hair on men feminine and wonder why they are trying to look feminine ("Why don't those men want to look masculine").
They are all just personal perceptions and opinions.
Some posters want to rank a particular set of long hair styles as "masculine" and others as "feminine". We have to agree that we're not all going to agree on which styles fit which classification.
This site is for discussion on men and long hair. In support of that, it is also about how long hair on men is masculine. This is where the disagreement is. I don't believe that there are feminine hairstyles vs. masculine hairstyles. It's all just hair.
Shame on those long haired men who are being tolerant of all long hairstyles for men. There is so much more to men's long hair than just the wild-hair look. And it can all be worn by men who want to be men.
WTF is it with you Mick?! You dare to lecture us about the quality and dedication of the people here to their hair (as in your words below)
Yet you hide behind your hair and won't show anyone your face because of some big bad experience with the internet, and then lecture us on our stupidity for showing ourselves, which we do proudly enough with your fucking approval thank you very nuch!
I do not believe you are restraining your comments about specific individuals out of some noble cause, but instead you knock everyone with generalities because you know if you ever talked badly about anyone specific here as you say you feel you, you know you would be pounded to the ground in front of everyone and driven out of the community.
So get over yourself and don't pretend to be so noble when you are in fact to cowardly to stick with your own opinions when you have them.
Thanks Chris well said.
And to think I was starting to get self conscious that my hair was horrible. Ha!
Kevin
I must have woken up on the wrong side of the internet today, feel free to delete my thread if it causes more trouble, it was enjoyable enough just putting it out there if even for a little while :)
Nah! we'll leave it up... Sometimes you have to tell it like it is. To intimate the majority of our poster pics and hair are crap is well deserving of a response. Yours was just fine.
Kevin
Boy am I glad you're back Chris! That post just made my day :-) Well said sir, I salute you!
Mick chill the hell out dudem you talk alot of shit you know that!
n/t
Like Kevin says now I feeling like I should shut myself in a cupboard or put a brown paper bag over my head!
Put up or shut up!
Hi Mick,
Next time I post a picture, would yo let me know whether or not my hair looks like holy hell or not? I really would like to know.
Thanks, your BFF,
Matt B.
Thanks for the great laugh Matt :)
Exactly! Now didn't you promise us all an update without the shades I do re-collect recently!
Cheers,
John.B
I did make that promise and will try to follow up on it as soon as possible. Now, the other question, can I wear regular glasses in the new pictures, or must I be totally bare-eyed?
HAHA!
Yes we have to see the whites of your eyes!
I say with regular glasses (I would LOL).
I used to have contacts and maybe will again but until then I will be honest about what people normally see. Hopefully I will get vainer (more vain?) and try to find some new contacts
I can wear. The ones I liked are no longer made. I do think I look better without glasses.
There are three basic looks based on one's sex: Male, female, and androgynous. Call androgynous that, call it transgender, call it glam rock, or anything else, it is still the in-between look. If this site were about model railroading or canoeing, no one but a bigoted fringe would give a rat's ass what you look like. However, this site is about what you look like, and it is about the male look, not the female or androgynous look. From this site's earliest days it has been in the rules that posted photos should be of men.
This issue is not about hair; it is about the look that is presented along with the hair. As for that look, we all know male, female, and androgynous when we see it. These are non-verbal concepts that may even be hard to express in verbal terms (in words) but we all know them nevertheless. The human brain is programmed to make these distinctions, and opinions vary little.
Since this site is about the male look, why don't those who want to celebrate one of the other two looks just go elsewhere to do that? That would be the polite, considerate, and socialized thing to do. Most of us agree that people with the other two looks can be quite attractive, but this is just not the place to celebrate that, because celebration of something else is what is going on here.
Bill
"From this site's earliest days it has been in the rules that posted photos should be of men."
An Androgynous man is still a Man. :)
Exactly. He identifies as male. He's a beer, titties, and eyeliner kind of a guy. He was a soccer star during highschool, and acts, frankly, like a guy. He likes building things, and explosions. He likes action movies and is pretty damn good in a fist fight. Looking androgynous doesn't say a damn thing about whether he's a man or not.
How individual site visitors might personally draw such lines or define related words is irrelevant, of course. What is relevant is how the site owners draw these distinctions. For the purposes of the site, they decide what is black, what is white, and what is gray. The large number of posts in this thread confirm that everyone is not in agreement as to their personal definitions in this area.
How users' opinions DO matter is that the site owners weigh user opinions overall in formulating site policy. They don't normally allow discussion of site policy on the board, but once in a while they find a thread like this useful to gauge user opinion. What they definitely will not allow is for the subject to be brought up every time someone new wanders in and wants to discuss it. This subject has been brought up enough before that there is little new to be gleaned from rehashing it again.
Bill
At least we have the balls to show our faces! And its really hard to give a shit about my hair looking crappy in your opinion when I get compliments about it
When you begin slinging mudballs in everyone's general direction. It also seems rather hypocritical of you to be so critical of others willing to post pictures. Sadly, you rail about negative comments, while saying plenty of negative comments yourself. This brings to mind an old saying about catching more flies with honey rather than vinegar. You are no more constructive than those you rail against. I can just see that this post is going over well with the masses... NOT!
ok...seriously off topic, but entertaining none the less =P
I totally have to try that now :-D
Not hypocritical at all...I've posted plenty of pictures over the years (if that's what you're referring to). And I've never commented negatively directly to or about any specific person (unlike some posts in this particular thread).
And what "argument" are you speaking of?
I loss not a thing, since there was nothing to be lost. But if you feel better thinking I lost something, then you keep thinking that....
(Actually I did lose about 50 hairs today....did anyone find them ;-)
This thread has been exhausting to follow.
Gender bending isn't the same thing as being transgendered, and can take many forms. Perhaps if he wore a bra I'd say he was TG. For that matter being transgendered is not a crime, just not the subject of this particular board. I can't really see why anyone is upset about these pictures.
Many men that have long hair also do other things that are considered to be deviant by society, even if it's just riding a motrcycle, for example. Few of us are conventional in everything except hair. So why are so many people worried about a little makeup or 'teased' hair?
At the other extreme, it's also dumb to denounce natural hair as the rat's nest look. There's a lot of pressure to style hair, but IMHO nothing wrong with looking the way we naturally are, i.e. with long uncut hair. Do I think this guy's hair is in better condition? Actually, no, because processing hair tends to break down the condition, but it's his choice.
Many people think long hair is feminine, but it's just hair. The same is true about any way of treating it or styling it. It's not inherently masculine or feminine, it's just perception. I amy not be comfortable with styles that get labelled feminine, but if someone else is, that's fine with me. It's just a metter of degree.
There isn't anything wrong with androgyny. Some of you need to learn how to be more tolerant of others. Just because someone's style isn't your own, or even to your liking, does not make it wrong, and certainly not "disgusting".
Once again, if you don't have anything nice to say, then just don't say anything. How can some people complain about being discriminated against as a longhair when they themselves subject others to discrimination? Can you say Hypocrisy?
I find it absolutely sickening that anyone here would be so rude. We're all here to support each other, are we not?
Couldn't have said it better myself!
~Z
Well, not "my cup of tea", thanks; but, am learning to be more tolerant of "the androgynous look"...
My partner is into androgyny more than I wish he was. Around me, he wears as little make up as he feels comfortable getting away with (he thinks he looks horrible without it; but, I totally disagree).
As a gay guy, I'll be blunt: I like a man to look like... a MAN (meaning, as masculine as possible)!!! Interestingly, I've never thought of long hair on a guy as ever looking "feminine", --- unless, of course, he's wearing a pink chiffon dress (lol)!!
Coming of age during the 1960s, the guys who first had the guts to grow their hair long were usually "rebels" of some kind or another, --- musicians, bikers, surfers, political dissenters (like draft dodgers or speakers at ant-war rallys), etc, etc... A man gutsy enough to be a rebel and even look "different" from society's norm is a man who is confident about who he is on the inside, first. Just because I don't personally find drag queens or other males that are dressed up to look like women "attractive" in my own eyes, doesn't mean that they don't have a big set of balls!
I'm happy for you, Madeira Darling, that you've found a man that you love and are proud of! Personally, since my ex-wife wears WAAAY less make up than he does, I'd much rather go back to her than date anybody that looks even remotely like your man; but, hey, "different strokes for different folks!"
As far as the other controversies that evolved from this thread goes... Hey, it's all part of the "entertainment" of reading MLHH!!!
Yours in Heavy Breathing and Heavy Eye-shadow,
Ken in San Francisco
Ken, you are witty as ever.
I think this touches on an interesting point. As a straight male I care hardly atall what other men look like! If they share some characteristics with me, like having long hair, then that's good because it provides some mutual moral support. Beyond that, it just isn't that much of an issue.
Now, I don't believe every other straight male feels the same way. For some reason there are some of a more mainstream appearance that do seem to care. Not all of them, by any means. More guys than you would credit, who have short hair, also don't care. Nevertheless, some short haired men, and a few women of various hair lengths, are judgemental about anyone who looks different. OTOH, if I see someone with purple spiked hair, for example, despite having absolutely no desire to adopt such a style myself, my thoughts are along the lines of "How refreshing, isn't it nice that they don't look like everyone else".
I would hope that longhairs would be more tolerant on the whole, but there have been some rather intolerant remarks in this thread. I don't mean you, Ken, although you did mention that you like men to look masculine, which is fair enough as far as you were just expressing your own preference.
I think that some of the group are trying to distance themselves from anyone they think looks feminine, which just seems to indicate a lack of self confidence.
Alun
Dear Goddess in a paper boat floating down the chocolate river for PMS....I have 14 hens and they don't squabble this much.
Also...After reading ALL the posts below...I rarely voice my opinions in more than a line or to...so here goes.
As someone who is at times borderline androgynous, I find it impossible to feel "welcomed" or "supported" (despite all the wonderful comments)by this community, when the same is not done for someone who dressed very much like myself. I have been posting here for quite a while (not as long as some) and over the past couple months I've been seeing more and more intolerance by people who claim to be "discriminated" against.
I'm sorry, but someone looking at you funny in the grocery store isn't discriminating, that's paranoia. An entire board of long haired "open minded" men hounding you for wearing something that makes you happy...THAT is discriminating, regardless of whatever rules this board may abide by. Not that they shouldn't be followed.
As a very close friend told me...for a person who's battled with an extreme religious background it's amazing that I of all people have to do this, but...
Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up dissension,
but love covers over all wrongs.
Keep in mind that MLHH does not receive all its users as they drop out of the womb. We get them after they have undergone many years of self-growth elsewhere, and the crew has to react to how the majority feels. MLHH was actually founded because general hair boards were not welcoming places for longhaired MEN, so dealing with prejudice along sexual lines has been on the table here since day one.
Implicit in creating a site for men is having to decide what "men" means. It would be wonderful if we all loved each other regardless of our being male, female, or something in between, but that is not the world we find ourselves in. If that were our world, there would be no need for MLHH in the first place.
Maybe someday there will be no prejudice against longhaired men and that would be wonderful! However, in the meantime, we need our own space to deal with it.
Bill
I have to say that, as a gay man, I now feeling very unwelcome here. It appears that users have to be masculine, as defined by some group of other users. Apparently a lot of people are channeling my 81 year-old, dead mother.
Don't feel unwelcome. You're not nearly alone here--in fact, "as a gay man", you just might be in the majority, or at least a very sizable minority.
--Jeff (not too straight himself)
I thought the idea behind justice was to defend minorities from the tyranny of the majority.
This is why I dislike democracies ;)
Bill,
Thank you for your honesty. =)
I'm sorry to hear that the definition of "men" is no longer defined by what reproductive organs you have. I'm also sorry to hear that because of this oddly opinionated definition, some people wouldn't be accepted by the "majority" of this board. I respect your difficult position as a moderator in this issue. However, the morals of this site seem to change with the wind, and a little consistency would be appreciated. Also, it seems the use of profanity is now allowed as long as it's used to prove the "correct" side of a debate.
As you said, maybe one day there will be no prejudice against long haired men. But until then, it would be lovely if that prejudice didn't come from the inside. Perhaps more "self-growth" is needed.
Thanks again,
Tristram
I realize being female, I am not part of the majority and so my opinion holds little weight. That being said, The FAQ states: "Our site is intended for men who want to look like men and consider long hair to be part of that look." Well and good. Now comes the hard part, how do you define "look like men"? Heck, many out there consider long hair not looking like men. Within the realm of MLHH, that is not the case.
How about hairstyles? We have seen braids, pigtails, buns, hair accessories, etc. that some may consider not within the definition of "Look like men". What about the trend towards guyliner and fingernail polish? While not everyones cup-o-tea, do any of the above make a man less "look like a man"? The androgenous look isn't about looking/acting female. It's about pushing the boundaries set by society as to what defines male. They aren't transgenders looking/acting female, they are males redefining what male is, something that women managed to do with the women's movement.
As long as the person is male and is choosing a longhair lifestyle, why should it matter what his style of dress is? I just don't get what a person's sense of style has to do with the objective, supporting a man in the longhair lifestyle. The history of longhair culture is a diverse one. There are conservatively-dressed lonhairs, hippie types, glam rockers, metal fans, gay and bi-sexual men, And yes, androgenous-looking men. Men with a different sense of fashion who enjoy the use of cosmetics and accessories traditionally seen as feminine (such as earrings), just as long hair is traditionally seen as feminine.
There was once a period in history, before the military influence of cropped heads took over, where men wore long hair. Men also wore lace and used cosmetics too. Look at Eurpoe during the Renaissance period. Particularly 16th century France. Men in high class social circles routinely made use of cosmetics. Androgeny is simple reviving what was once a normal practice, in the same way long hair being grown by men is.
While I don't think MLHH should be a support for androgeny in particular, I would hope that it would tolerate individual members who adopt an androgenous look along with the long hair. This thread only became about androgeny, because some people chose to focus on the OP's BF's sense of style, as opposed to the fact that he is a male with long hair. Androgenous men should feel welcome to post here, as long as the focus is on having long hair as male. I really don't see from this thread, that the majority really has a problem with that, as long as the focus shifts back to being a long-haired male, when the thread drifts off-topic.
It bothers me if the definition of "look like men" itself becomes a form of discrimination that results in alienating members who don't fit neatly into the mold of what a male is. Some men look feminine, and are mistaken for females, without doing anything other than growing long hair. Some dress in a style that is neither inheritantly male or female. It becomes a PITA when you try to define something, using standards that are exclusionary.
Ugh! I hate it when I can't sleep, I end up rambling on a board on the interwebs while on the 'puter. I think I have certainly said all I can say on the subject.
Can I hug you? XD
I didn't use to dress fem, and I don't do it on a regular basis. But I got mistaken for a girl so often I figured, wth I may as well play off what I've got =P
Thank you so much Carol =)
<3
Hugs are always welcome here. Hugs back at you. A lot of young males are mistaken as females. Goes to show one can look androgenous without even attempting such. Young males with long hair, until they lose some of the baby fat in their faces, and develope a more masculine angular look in their mid to late 20's, can look quite feminine. Teenagers and young men choosing long hair probably get the "look like a girl/are a girl" comments more than anyone.
I would like to point out that long haired men have overcompensated against being perceived as girlie by being overly macho and aggressive. This has lead to longhair on men being associated with criminality. He has a Y chromosome so he's male. That's how I define a man.
Long haired man are not a monolithic bunch. We also have diverse political opinions too.
Hi Tristram,
I'm sorry that you are feeling unwelcommed at this time due to the comments made during the life of this thread.Right now I am speaking for myself with the following comments.I support you and the boyfriend who is at the center of this whole discussion in the way they want to present themselves in public.I find the androgynous look actually quite appealing on the longhaired male and it does nothing to diminish him or yourself from being a real man.I know some people don't like the look but hey everyone has their opinion and in my case I'm with you my friend:)Take care buddy!
Mark
Look, I support your boyfriend's right to present whatever image suits him, and I support your right to find that image attractive, but seriously...
"He likes action movies and is pretty damn good in a fist fight."
???
Loverboy here looks like the kind of guy who'd watch Vampire Hunter D, and then get his ass kicked for milk money on the way back to Blockbuster Video.
If you're going to defend his look, (or his "masculinity") do so on its own merits, but don't expect me to think that the guy in this picture is in any way a tough guy or a manly man. No freakin' way.
For any other MLHH members who go for the androgenous look, I support your right to do so, as well. I just don't classify the look as a "new kind of masculine." It is what it is. If it's what you want to be, then be it, but don't bitch about being regarded as un-manly.
--Val
I have to agree with Validus, here (and usually). One should not be considered as discriminating against androgynous-looking men by refusing to call them the epitome of masculinity, anymore than one should be called such for disagreeing that obese is the new fit. I wish well to anyone who challenges the norm --as we long-hairs have been known to do from time to time -- yet disagree that differences do not exist (or that one should willingly blind oneself to our differences).
I wish you and your bf all the best.
Shawn (Mr.Crow)
I categorized him right away as "androgynous" and this does not bother me. The FAQ may have been revised before this, but fairly far back in the history of this site there was an actual transexual who posted and participated and few had problems with it.
If a transexual can post, I don't see why this guy can't. However, perhaps the problem is just that: He's not posting. So, we've got a feminine looking guy, and it's his GF who's posting and that's generally not the flavor of the site.
It's generally masculine men with long hair, posting on their own behalf. There have been a few female participants; but IIRC the rule has always been "that's OK, as long as they stay on-topic and don't change the flavour of the site".
So. Androgynous men are arguably off-topic, and females are OK but only if they don't change the tone of the site. It's like... there are two things here that slide by alone, but not together. It just pushes people's definition of the site a bit too far.
In other words, this one thread is being tolerated... but if it became a bunch of androgynes and their GF with the occasional masculine longhair, instead of the other way around... that'd be a problem. That's what we don't want.
Oh, actually I see Dawn Ashley, the aforementioned transexual is still a registered user, but AFAIK hasn't posted in a long time.
MLHH allows posts from teens and old men, smooth face, wrinkle face, clean shaven, unshaven. Here we have a guy that has a youthful look. What we offended by? Too much eyeliner? The pose? Because that's all it is. Take off the eyeliner and he's just someone that looks younger than his age!
What we have here is a female who supports men with long hair (allowed), showing off her longhaired boyfriend, who happens to be slight (skinny), youthful in appearance, and wears makeup. In her original picture posting, he doesn't even have feminine clothing on. It was only after she was challenged about her authenticity that she produced a picture where he has more of the "Glam" look.
Can't we be more welcoming then this!!
Bruce
It may help to step back and look at how we got to where we are with the rules, and whether we want them to stay the same now....
1. Social groups have a right to define themselves. If the Boy Scouts do not want to let atheists, gays, and girls in their clubhouse, that is their right. There is a recent court case in California to that effect.
2. This site was founded in 1997. At that time longhairs were never seen in recently-made TV shows, and they were never seen in advertising of any kind. Discrimination against longhairs was pervasive - far worse than we see in 2008. About the year 2002 we began to see things lighten up a bit in this, and the situation has gotten better since. A smaller percentage of MLHH posts is about dealing with discrimination now. Nevertheless, some longhairs still do face discrimination.
3. A major slur uttered back then, and still seen, is "You look like a girl".
4. This site was founded because longhaired men were not accepted at the existing long hair sites, sites mostly populated by straight women and their husbands or boyfriends, mostly men with short hair.
5. A major thrust of this site in support of male longhairs was to convey the message here that "you do NOT look like a girl". Material contrary to that was seen as reiterating a slur, and it was prohibited.
That is why the policy is as it is.
If policies no longer meet a group's needs, they can change them. That would have to be done by the site's management if it is to occur. There has been plenty of discussion here, but much of it has been by the same people, and the crew is not going to make its judgment based on a thread where the direction it's going can only be ascertained by weighing it. It's an old junior high school joke about teachers weighing term papers to grade them, I know, but the crew is not going to decide matters that way.
If you feel strongly that the policy should be changed, write the crew at and tell them why. Mention the name you use on the board and your age, because they may find a difference of opinions between generations here. If you feel strongly that the policy should remain, also write them. Remember when writing them to put "MLHH" in the subject of your e-mail to bypass their spam filter.
The two sides of the issue are whether we be more welcoming of diversity or whether we be more welcoming to those, primarily youth, who have been taunted about being girly. The crew is not going to merely count votes. The issue is "who is to be our target group - the group MLHH chooses to serve". The numbers of people in society in each group, the need they have for services, and the availability of other alternatives to them are relevant to making this decision. You may, therefore, wish to address those issues in any comments you send. If you feel the social environment has changed since 1997 so much that that also warrants a policy change, you might also state how you feel that environment has changed.
Site policies are not set in stone. On the other hand, the crew can't look at them continually. They just don't have the time. Whatever they do will be the policy for awhile, so don't expect it to be revisited over and over if they decide opposite to what you'd like. Now is the time to let them know how you feel because they are allowing the issues to be hashed out on the board now. Unless they see a need, they generally do not allow discussion of site policy on the board.
Bill
At first I though it was a girl, it's not my thing but if he is happy about it that's his choise.
He's got nice hair.
well, I'm far from having any weight on this subject given my gender but I'm feeling randy tonight so I might as well jump on my soapbox for a few minutes.
Now let me say, I am DEFINTELY **NOT** into the androgeny look (if I spelled that wrong I do apologize) If my boyfriend wore that kind of stuff I would cry. However, I think the look CAN look good on some people. I think your boyfriend pulls off the look well. If that what gets you going, gratz for you and I hope you guys the best.
However, had the picture just been posted, and nothing said as of gender, there would have probebly been a lot more compliments. Maybe I'm off here, but I thought this was about hair. If this suddenly became a showing of who is prettier or more masculine or who is too skinny or too fat well then I apologize for all the people I must have offended.
Oh, thats right, as far as I know, I did not offend anyone. Because it was my hair being looked at. I think the same should be held for everyone.
Does this look modelled? only very slightly. Its a good pose and some nice lighting effects. But that is certainly no pro picture. However, it is still an exceptional picture. Does his hair look fake? As she said before, it's teased. Teased hair often does have a 'fake' look because of the way the product clumps the hair and defies gravity in order to make the length and thickness accented. I'm sure these points have already been put aside but I still wanted to say my part.
If the femininity of this offends someone, instead of being hurtful, take your thumb. Now, carefully align it over his face. See? look at the hair!!! Oh, the body offends you too? Well then use your palm. I think his hair looks really good, once you look at the regular pictures where it is not teased it looks like it is nice and thick and well kept.
See? now was that hard? Oh, there is a fingerprint on your monitor? Grab a tissue. Guess what, you just spent less effort to focus on the point of the board then what it took you to write a hurtful comment.
Maybe I'm just sensitive because I myself have heard way too many hurtful comments in my life about myself.
Oh and Mick....hehehe....there's just one word for you....oh, whoops...my cat covered your post with his paw....how useful :)
Oh, you have a kitty cat. I wonder what your cat looks like. I have a cat. It is a brown tabby with green eyes.
Regardless
My MySpace
I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who the humane society told me was a grey tabby when i got him but now he kind of has a brownish bengal looking pattern mixed with the grey and in a few weeks I will be able to bring home his now brother or sister who is currently 3 weeks old and looks like a furry little cow except with a black helmet on his face with little white ears poking out.
It looks like you have a cute cat. By the way, I have a brown tabby cat, which is absolutely gorgeous.
Regardless
My MySpace
You = <3
what does = <3 mean.
Sorry I'm not into texting.
Take a look at what <3 looks like, sideways and with no space whatsoever between the two characters..
basucally its a way of typing a heart, as in I -heart- you, kind of a friendly way to say someone or something is awesome. can also be used romanticlly but not in this context lol.
for example:
I <3 my kitty
I <3 payday
I <3 Antesse (my bf on this board)
I <3 computers
hope that helps. sometimes you'll also see 3 which is kind of a broken heart/do not love thing. used in:
I 3 cleaning the cat box
I 3 stupid customers
