new thread
Hey Guys
Election time in the US is always a fun time to keep up with the political cartoons on newspaper opinion pages (as I'm sure it is everywhere).
I've been noticing something interesting going on when depicting 'politically-interested males' in the cartoons I read - particularly in the Boston Globe.
Liberal men are always drawn as scruffy, shaggy-haird, or with ponytails.
Conservative men are always depicted clean-cut, or wearing suits.
The interesting thing is that the Globe is fairly left of center - so I do not find the depiction insulting. I think it is kind of funny (being the scruffy, shaggy, on-my-way-to ponytailed liberal that I am ...)
However, it does make me wonder if percentages truly reinforce stereotypes.
My intuition (and often observation) tell me that longhaired guys tend to be more "liberal." But I'm now curious as to how many long-haired conservative guys there are.
I think this might point a bit toward Jason's point about "Sticking it to the Man."
The Man, perhaps more often than not, is politically conservative.
Then compare the Man, for instance, to a male Christian Rock band - the members are probably conservative politically - but often longhaired.
And the ministers of the churches in which Christian bands play are usually short-haired.
I know it is ridiculous to think that one's hair has anything to do with one's political views.
However - cartoonists always use the most immediately readable symbol in their cartoons. And those symbolic images obviously have cultural significance.
Thoughts?
lifobryan
I hate those debates that lead to nowhere because people can't open their HEADS to other people's opinions. I clasiffy myself as conservative, would have gone for Hillary though, before growing my hair I had all the stereotype of a conservative, not now though. Back in those days I wouldn't let anyone even mention something I didn't agree about without jumping and starting an endless argument. There is only one issue where I have zero tolerance. Other than that I understand people have different opinions and maybe should express them without bashing others.
I have long hair and I don't do drugs, I don't ride a bike, I'm not a metal fan and I hate labels.
I'm fairly conservative on most views. I almost always go Republican because I've hated all the liberal candidates, especially the one for this election, but I won't go into that. I pretty much fit every other long hair stereotype except for this one. I don't usually mind if someone labels me as metal head, guitar player, or Fabio-ish because the first two are true and I'll take the last one as a compliment.
There is more to it than merely liberal or conservative. I recommend that everyone should take the test at www.politicalcompass.org to see where they really fall in the political spectrum. The reason you should take the test is that you may not come out where you expect.
I invariably come out in the bottom left of the diagramme, with Ghandi, Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama, and proud of it! This part of the chart is the liberal left. Unfortunately, all Western politicians are in the top right, which is the authoritarian right, although those who we typically regard as liberal are nearer the centre of the chart.
Not every person with long hair is a liberal, but it helps.
Hey Elektros, fascinating test...I too came out in the middle of the left quadrant in the Dalai Lama region and proud of that as well. I felt pretty certain that I would fall thusly. Thanks for the link.
Cheers,
Max
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I am a free spirit and a free thinker, so I am not surprised at the results.
Scott
Oh, the libertarians and their test. I took it in college, and they had me pegged as a mild "authoritarian leftist", which was really amusing because I was a strong Republican at the time.
I just took it again, and it has me as a right-leaning Libertarian. This is even more amusing, since I've drifted to the Left over the years.
Perhaps the test isn't too meaningful when you're near the center. Perhaps it isn't meaningful or useful at all. I've come to the conclusion over time that a lot of Libertarianism is just not practical or useful. It smacks of academic theory. If it were ever put into practice, we might have serious problems. It reminds me too much of the way that Marxist theory appealed to a lot of intellectuals. Don't get me wrong--it's nothing like communism; it's just that it travels in the same circles--universities, professors, people who are isolated from the real world a bit.
The combination of deregulation and free trade they espouse seems like it would result in a defacto corporate state (even moreso than now). Of course, they never come out and say "we want to create a corporate state". Then there's their infatuation with the gold standard, which broke down for a variety of reasons. They oppose minimum wage; but that was established for very good reasons. One way I like to sum it up:
"A Libertarian is someone who got an A in economics and an F in history"
I've never heard it put quite like that. A very astute observation.
Shawn (Mr.Crow)
A very good way to put it.
well put --
I kind of think that "capitalism" as we understand it is similarly illusory. We've never really experienced it in it's purest, philosophical form. In that way, it is similar to philosophical marxism, and idealist libertarianism.
here is my result...
my website
That was fun; I got the same score as the Dalai Lama although I "agreed" that it's OK to spank children; but making peace with the "establishment" as a sign of maturity, hell no, if anything, it has to be a sign of immaturity to acquiesce to iniquity!
Great link. I thought it interesting. I wasn't sure where I'd land.
Unfortunately, for me, being economically slightly to the right and socially to the left, there are no parties in Canada that encapsulate the goals of both. So here we are in our third minority government in a row. Blech!
Shawn (Mr.Crow)
...as for the post about Libertarianism not being practical or useful, I would argue that we've never really seen a true Libertarian society. The problem is that a lot of people (thanks to our wonderful educational system) couldn't give two hoots about government, law, and economics. Sadly, this causes a veil of ignorance at the ballot box, which, in turn, leads to poor choices for leadership at the helm of the Federal government, who govern at the whim of emotion, rather than principle and logic. And that, of course, leads to government expansion into many realms that it should not penetrate -- both social and economic.
I'll get off my high horse now and go back to my own little world of economic prosperity, property rights, and civil liberties. =)
Oh, and here's my chart...
I think Thomas Jefferson had a lot to say about an "educated" populace.
I appreciate your political insights. You provide an informed, erudite (and nice!) addition to this board.
And ... a great example of how irrelevant long hair is to politics.
I used to be quite liberal, then more conservative, and now more left than right. IMHO, the results would vary depending on your mood at the time you take it. I took the test last night and then again this morning and the results were basically the same, between Nelson Mandela and the Dali Lama! :-)
--Rick
Seeing as how all of us support and have long hair, maybe that makes us naturally more "left"? I tend to prefer control over free thinking but the chart itself is pretty accurate of my political stances.
It seems that most who took the test are socially liberal, but not necessarily more often economically left wing than right wing libertarian. Apparently this means long hair = socially liberal. Not a huge surprise there. Mind you, those on the board who are self-proclaimed conservatives (not libertarians) didn't take the test. I wonder what that means?
Unfortunately, finding socially liberal political parties with a ghost's chance of election is nigh-on impossible. In case anyone should think that the Democrats in the US or the Labour party in the UK meet that criterion, look elsewhere on that site and you will see that they don't.
The Liberal Democrat (formerly Liberal, originally Whig) party in the UK comes close, i.e. they are slightly on the socially liberal side and they do just about have a ghost's chance of election, but no better than that. They haven't been in power since the 1920's, and lately get about a third of the vote, but their Achilles heel is that they have no concentrations of supporters in any one place, so always get fewer than a third of the seats.
No, as I said before, long hair = long hair. And what it means that I (as one of those self-noted conservatives) hadn't taken the test is that I don't really believe in such tests. Too many of the questions simplify the issues too much for a realistic answer, and/or the available answers don't cover all the possibilities. There were issues discussed on the test that I neither agree or disagree with, either because I truly don't care or because I don't know enough about the subject to make an informed judgment. Just as an example, there was a question about abortion, and the only guiding factor was whether the mother's life was at risk. There's at least one other point to be considered, to my mind, but you don't have an option to discuss/debate an issue properly on a yes/no survey.
But, for what it's worth, here's my result:
Thanks for the link - really interesting!
I agree that political philosophy goes so much deeper than the simplistic "liberal" and "conservative" labels that media ascribes.
I'm really glad for the diversity represented on this board.
Everyone's hair grows differently - as does each of our opinions and sensibilities.
It's pretty well known here that I am a conservative Republican; the fact that I let my hair grow out does not change that one iota. As far as the stereotypes, I attempt to play the guitar, but do not ride a motorcycle, have no tatoos, and am in business for myself.
Phew only 13 days to go!
I'm fairly liberal, and at the most, moderate, and in certain instances, I'm against various forms of government control, but I like them having control to a degree, thus, moderate.
It's kind of hard to be gay and be conservative, actually. xD;; Most consider them unable to be mutally exclusive.
Heheheh - I used to date a gay conservative - and could never quite figure that out!
Ultimately it seemed his conservatism was far more economic than social. Personally, I find it hard to separate the two --
It would be VERY difficult to be a gay SOCIAL conservative (been, there, tried that
Still not sure how economic "conservatism" (FREE market) has been politically grafted onto social "fascism" (DICTATED morality) ...
Well, you can add one more to the list. While my hair and beard may fit the "stereotypical" appearance of a hippy, I am certainly not one, neither am I a metalhead or a biker.
Precisely. The fact that I have long hair means I'm a guy with long hair. No more, and no less.
Thanks for all the replies!
I know that hair has nothing to do with one's political sensibilities - and that the liberal-conservative dynamic itself is reductive. We as humans are far more complex than that bipolar packaging suggests.
I was initially interested in this topic because of the caricatures I saw in Boston Globe political cartoons - and was curious about the graphic stereotypes.
Granted, this is a board where EVERY guy on it has long hair - and political sensibilities span the spectrum.
Which is great!!
(In fact, I kinda pine for the days when both the "conservative" Adams, and by comparison "liberal-ish" Jefferson wore ponytailed wigs. Maybe one day political forces on all sides will embrace the idea of individualist hairstyles).
I think the caricatures in the Globe are reductive in the way that all cartoons are - the immediate graphic association of form. In cartoon logic, "Conservative" implies visual conformity. Liberal implies scruffy & shaggy. ie: unkempt.
Based on the responses here, nothing could be further from the truth. The truth in all reality is that we are all quite complex beings, whose views are not based on CNN's charts, but on our own life experiences - which are difficult to categorize.
I think the thing that I like most about long hair is just how INDIVIDUAL it is. Close-cropped hair is more conducive to collective association. Long hair grows differently for every individual.
Anyway - thanks elektros for the political compass graph. And thanks everyone for the fascinating discussion.
I hope it continues!
By the way, here's where I ended up on the graph:
I really like these two thoughts, especially the use of the term "reductive." Binary distinctions do usually collapse on themselves as perspective renders them absurd. The hawk swoops down and kills the lamb, but the hawk is not "evil," it's getting its lunch. You can't fault the hawk for being a hawk.
"and that the liberal-conservative dynamic itself is reductive. We as humans are far more complex than that bipolar packaging suggests."
"I think the thing that I like most about long hair is just how INDIVIDUAL it is. Close-cropped hair is more conducive to collective association. Long hair grows differently for every individual."
My personal belief is that your appearance does not reflect your morals or political beliefs.
BTW, here's my score...I had no idea how much of a centrist I was! I usually lean right on a majority of issues, but some of the bigger ones I tend to lean to the left.
Brett
Your result is the closest one to mine yet. None of the political figures they had on their site were in this quadrant of the chart!
They had another one with famous composers. We both are very close to Chopin. Composers are more likely to occupy that lower right quadrant.
My theory on this? Since politicians are in authority, they are more likely to be authoritarian. If they are anti-authoritarian they are more likely to be Leftists, since the right is the authority against which they are often reacting.
A well-developed party of moderate, anti-authoritarian right-wingers? It's a political odd-duck. Even more bizarre would be extremists in the lower-right corner. That would be a "radical right wing anarchist". How would that manifest itself? Fundamentalist Burning Man participants? Guys who self-publish 'zines on stock-picking? Militarists who believe that everyone should cooperate voluntarily to ensure world domination?
interesting post. I agree there's more to us longhairs than a simple left or right.
I was surprised to see where I fell.
Well here are my results. I'm not too surprised at where I landed. Great topic Lifobryan and excellent link Elektros.
I dont quite fit the sereotype, and if I may say so, I get a little annoyed when people just assume im a liberal.
Lol...
Wasn't that surprising for me,
but it was neat to see where I stood, along w/ everyone else on the board
Well, just where I thought! I'm a centrist commie. Being a Christian, that would make me more conservative than most (I'd assume), but I really hate corporations and the division of wealth. Great test, thanks! "Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity", I wonder how many of us said agree . . . lol.
Currently governed by Stephen Harper,
-Christian Epp
Thankyou for link on the political compass test. The trouble with multiple choice tests is that sometimes the answers to choose from are too narrow. When taking the test there were a few questions where i was on the fence and particular circumstances may have either influenced a agree or disagree answer. My score fell in the same spot with Nelson Mandela's which doesn't surprise - I have always leaned to the left while also embracing some mild conservative values without being extreme. I'm pro-choice for abortions, but do oppose gay marriage while supporting the right of gays to have their relationship legally recognised - and have the same benefits in practice like access to partners superanuation.
People who try to force others to live as they do scare me and I despise religious fundamentalists. I think that you cannot catagorise people based on their appearance - but i do think that long-haired men are inclined to be a lot less conservative then the norm only because many conservatives want to conform to 'traditional mainstream values'.
Funnily enough in Australia one of the major mainstream conservative parties is called the LIBERAL PARTY who are social conservatives with a very strong belief that so called free market economics should run things with minimal government.
Let's hope for the world's sake that the minority of American voters who bother to vote (on a Tuesday when most are working -why not have voting on a Saturday or a Sunday?)
make the right choice because the rest of the world will directly and indirectly feel the consequences.
Regards,
Duncan
Hair length is not a predictor of political views. But I agree that people stereotype men with long hair.
I have a hair to my waist. I am as conservative as one gets.