new thread
While visiting my step-mom, who has been at a nursing home for over a year now, I often wait in an attractive little library while her nurse gets her up & ready into her chair. Since I visit her at least once a week, I frequently get to hang out in this sunny little room which is filled with plenty of interesting magazines and books to snoop at, both secular and religious (this nursing home is religion-based).
Recently, instead of reading National Geographic (my usual choice), my eyes fell upon a book called: "The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible"...
"I wonder what that dictionary says about long hair on men?", I said to myself. Then I picked it up and looked under H for HAIR (this dictionary is so thick that it's in 4 volumes!!!!)... Well, lo & behold, it said quite a LOT on the subject! Yesterday I visited my mom again, having dinner w/ her, and then decided to take the time afterwards to write down the entire comments under HAIR that I found in this dictionary.
So that this post isn't too long, I'll quote the full dictionary definition in a separate follow-up post devoted to just that (which is long enough in and of itself!!)...
For anybody replying who is Agnostic or Aiheist, I have no problem with that (I have a lot of friends and even relatives who are Atheists), --- including the cynical humor that goes with Atheism (lol)!! I tend to find narrow-minded literal interpretations of the Bible from Fundamentalist Christians more offensive than anything an Atheist can say.
If you take the time, though, to read the full quote from this dictionary (which will be in my next follow-up post), you will find it amazingly more longhair-suppotive than what you might expect. This Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible has a very scholarly and historical approach, rather than representing any particular religion. And, quite frankly, I found it to be a huge breath of fresh air!!
Anyone who takes the time to read my follow-up post with the full definition of HAIR quoted from the above-mentioned dictionary, please reply THERE, rather than here... Lazy bums who don't wish to do any further reading on this subject, please reply HERE (lol)....
Happy reading!
- Ken in San Francisco
Ken,
I think it's great that you take the time to visit your step mom so frequently. You're a good guy.
What made me make this post though is what you were saying about the cynical humor of atheism. It is quite funny sometimes. But here's something ironic.
I wonder how many English speaking atheists say "Goodbye" on a daily basis.
This is the irony; "goodbye" is a syncopated/shortened form of the expression, "God be with you." Say it like, "God b' w' ye" and the gap is bridged.
I'll be looking for your followup post too. Thanks and goodbye.
LOL, thanks so much, Matt, --- only I should say, "G'day, mate!" (like they say Down Under), instead of, "God b' w' ye", --- since it is morning in our part of the world right now, after all (lol)....
OK, gotta get back to bed now to catch a few more winks (it's a bit after 4:30 AM right now), so I'm signing off now.... Goodbye!
Thanks Again,
Ken
I always appreciate your insights and linguistic prowess, Matt. Seriously!
Inevitably on point and interesting.
In the broader context, long hair to me is as much a philosophy as it is a physical choice. Your comments and observations are more often than not (historically) philosophical and are always intriguing, You have a knack for honing in on the heart of any given topic, and then extrapolating said concern into the context of broader meaning - and always from a long haired point of view. Thanks!
Hey Matt, I find interestingly that I rarely say "goodbye", most often I say, "See ya" or "cheers". I did not know of the origin of "goodbye"...thanks for sharing...who knew??? Well you did...very interesting. Being an atheist...I'll have to monitor my valedictions from now on! :-)
Cheers,
Max
Here is the full definition of HAIR, as found in: The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (An Illustrated Encyclopedia)...
"HAIR. The hair's capacity for constant growth has always made it seem an important seat of life and, therefore, religiously significant. The most notable example of this in the Bible is in the case of the Nazarite vow (Num. 6: 1-21; Judg. 13: 5; 16: 17; I Sam. 1: 11), one aspect of which to allow the hair to grow long so that it might be presented to God as an offering (Num. 6: 18; Acts 18: 18; 21: 23-24). Sampson's hair, in the final form of the story (Judg. 13: 5), appears to have been left long in fulfillment of such a vow, although originally it had a much more primitive significance as the repository of his strength (Judg. 16: 19, 22). The shaving of the head in mourning (Job 1: 20; Isa. 15: 2; Jer. 41: 5; 47: 5; 46: 37; Ezek. 7: 18) and the offering of the hair to the dead were part of ancient religious practice, but forbidden to the Hebrews (Deut. 14: 1). Indeed, the complete shaving of the head was forbidden to them for any purpose (Lev. 19: 27; Jer. 9: 26; Ezek. 44: 20).
"In the O. T., long hair on men was greatly admired (II Sam. 14: 25-26; Song of S. 5: 2, 11), but in the N. T. it is frowned upon as contrary to nature (I Cor. 11: 15). Although women wore their hair long (I Cor. 11: 15), the Biblical writers deplore the excessive ornamentation of it (Isa. 3: 24; I Pet. 3: 3).
"The hair is a symbol of the fine (Judg. 20: 16), the small (Luke 21: 18), and the numerous (Matt. 10: 30)."
" - R. C. Dentan"
(who I assume wrote this specific definition in The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, --- although it seems as if this Dictionary was a group effort by several contributing authors)
Thanks for taking the time to read all of this!
- Ken in San Francisco (AKA "Urban Cowboy")
In your reference to I Corinthians, where it says, "Does not nature itself teach you that it is a shame for a man to have long hair?"..., "nature" means nature of the times, not birds-and-bees nature. Because birds-and-bees nature teaches exactly the opposite. The male animal usually has longer hair, the male bird longer feathers, etc. If you look at all those statues of Roman emperors and generals, they had short hair. That was the nature of the times. The nature of our time is not so fixed.
Hi Pat,
I hope you realize that I was simply quoting, word for word, what I had read in that Interpreter's Bible Dictionary (oops, the correct & full name is: "The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible"), --- including putting inside those quotes THEIR references, not mine.
I found it fascinating that out of all their Biblical references that were given by them about HAIR, only one reference was negative re. long hair on men.... ONLY ONE, --- ONLY ONE STUPID, IDIOTIC, OPINIONATED, POORLY-WORDED, DUMB REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And even more interesting, it was said by a man who historically had never even personally met the man Jesus: that dumb quote was said by St. Paul, who was born many years after Jesus no longer roamed the Earth!!!!
As you said in your reply to me, Pat, St. Paul was indeed referring to, "the nature of the times", --- because Paul's era was during the peak of Rome being in power (when all those ugly short-haired statues were being most "admired" - lol)...
I have not yet personally looked into my Bible (yes, I do have one - LOL) and looked up all those references that this dictionary included in their definition of HAIR; but, I do plan to read them all.
Another funny thing I remember a Bible student telling me once was that historical records seem to point to the fact that St. Paul was bald... Jealous of longhaired, fuller-haired, younger, better-looking men perhaps (lol)??!!!
The Bible was written by men, --- men who I'm sure were sincerely seeking to get to know the Divine better and to communicate their "discoveries" with their fellow-mortals; but, who were still flawed mortals themselves. To all who interpret the Bible *literally* as the Word of God: you haven't really read your Bible!!!!
- Ken
Or studied the origin of the Bible. The doings of the Counsel of Nicaea. Where they rejected 70 books. Mostly gnostic types that disagreed with their position. And "Canonized" the text we now call " The Bible".
A very elaborate plan to control the masses through religion.
Yup. And then they slaughtered those whose ideas were rejected before they returned home.
Here's another interesting little tidbit (very O/T and not P.C.--anyone easily religiously offended, turn away now!)...
"...the Roman Catholic church created a divine Christ and an infallible Scripture... 'Jesus' establishment as the 'Son of God' was officially proposed and voted on by the Council of Nicea... the divinity of Jesus was first raised and established at the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325... 'prior to that time, no one--not even JesusÂ’ followers--believed Jesus was anything more than a 'mortal prophet.'"
The human experience truly is the ultimate in tragic comedy.
Um, do you have a source for this?
Not sure who you were talking to but...
http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=second+Council+of+Nicaea+in+325&spell=1
Ken that was interesting. The bible is a funny book the interpretation of which has caused many to be tortured and put to death, while also inspiring many others to do great things. It has at times held back civilization and also seemed to saved it.
And now I know I'll hang onto my hair so when at the pearly gates I can say to St Peter, "I have a delivery of a hair offering for God, sign here please."
Kevin
"In the O. T., long hair on men was greatly admired,...but in the N. T. it is frowned upon as contrary to nature (I Cor. 11: 15).
I've read somewhere (sorry, I don't have the source, which is kinda rich seeing as I just asked another poster for one--mea culpa!) that the word translated as "long" is better translated as "fancy". And as someone else pointed out, "nature" simply means "the way things are"; maybe "custom" would be a better indicator of Paul's true intent?
Hey Ken, thanks for taking the time to research this. This is interesting to me for the historicity purposes within the bible. As an atheist I always like to know as much as possible about it including the various interpretations of certain verses. Sadly as we know so much human misery has been caused by it's tenets. Any good that people think they have done was not done because of the bible but despite it I believe. Most people (I hope) will naturally do the right thing...they don't need the bible in order to do so...and that includes persecuting us longhairs!
Any belief system that resorts to threats of physical punishment (in this case eternal flames, damnation, etc.)to make it's point is morally bankrupt. Sorry I had to get my licks in since the bible came up!!! LOL
Very illuminating verses...thanks for sharing...
Cheers,
Max
Wow that makes interesting reading and just think a definition book to go with a wonderful work of fiction. I'm sure you don't find those in your average library!
Cheers,
John.B
LOL, you and my Atheist sister-in-law would get along just famously!!
Thanks for your reply, John! And you are right: you definitely DON'T usually find that kind of definition book in your average library!
Hope you are doing well, --- and also do let us know if you've decided to go to a salon to trim off your split ends or not.... Just make sure if you do go, that you go to the best salon that money can buy, and preferably go to a stylist who specializes in long hair (just ask around any long-haired female friends you might have, if you can't find a longhair guy who has a stylist recommendation).
Cheers to reading books, whether "fact" or "fiction!"
Long Lox 4ever,
Ken
I must tell you Ken John's very religious! He's a devout follower of Bacchus and regularly sacrifices bottles of red wine to his honour.
I myself am a Festivus man.....LOL
Kevin
Thanks Ken,
You better believe that was copied and pasted.
I'll be writing those on my wrist next time I go to church.
Paul
Hey, Ken. I had to laugh when I read the quote where it said "long hair is contrary to nature." If so, why doesn't it stop growing? Conservatives and fundamentalists forget that our colonial fathers wore their hair much longer than today. Could you imagine the comments we would get if we started wearing powdered wigs?
Keep it growin' and flowin'. Have a Happy Holiday.
TLH
aka Terry