new thread
Hey guys and gals. It's been ages since I've posted. So long that my profile has been deleted from the user directory. I've lurked from time to time, but thought I'd put up an update for those who might remember me, or for any new members that might be interested.
It's been almost 5 and a half years that I've been growing my hair out, with a maintenance trim on average of once per year. That means that about 5 inches of hair has been trimmed off in 65 months. You'd think I should have hair at least 32 inches long by now. But, my longest hair is only 19 inches. Not only that, it doesn't look any longer than it did 2 years ago.
It's also looking thin on top - you can see my scalp. Unfortunately there are no older close-up pics of the top of my head, except for those I took today. Maybe it's always been like that, or maybe my hair is thinning and I've reached terminal length at 35 (almost 36) years of age. I've come to accept that my hair is thin and fine, and it's great to have long hair, but I had really hoped and expected it to look better after 5 years. My ponytail is thin. The hairline on the back of my head is high. My hair always looks thin and limp. Not to mention, I need to lose a lot of weight (no comments on that - it's a separate issue).
As for my hair... I've not used ANY chemicals on it in the last 5 years. Only good quality shampoo and conditioner - usually from a salon. Currently I'm using some that's supposed to add volume to my hair, but don't see a difference. Maybe now is the time to realize that my hair will not get any better looking - perhaps even the contrary.
So, I've made an appointment for a perm in 2 weeks. Yes, I know they'll use chemicals. My hair is slightly wavy, but I've always wanted it more curly, and getting a perm may give the appearance of more volume too. If it turns out awful and I hate it, I can always cut it to the length where I can tie a high ponytail and try regrowing it. Or, there are a few "longish" hair styles I kind of like - in the worst case...
So, what do you think of a perm? Anyone here had one? I'd love to see some before and after pics.
Here's a few more pictures I took today. The ones with a blue shirt were just before I washed my hair (not washed for 3 days), the ones with a brown shirt is right after I washed my hair and let it air dry:
with a perm. Your hair will be badly damaged from a perm. You have a great head of hair. I don't see any noticable thinning. Your hair has reached terminal length, and that is why it does not get any longer. It may be possible to get a bit more length from hair supplements. MSM and biotin would be good to try.
Scott
Hi Scott, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate you saying that I have a great head of hair. I just get really frustrated when there are so many guys who have thicker and longer hair and in much less time. Even worse, guys with thick, healthy hair that go for short hairstyles or shave their heads! They don't appreciate the gift they've got!I've tried biotin in the beginning, and MSM later on. Not sure if they made a difference, but I could try them again.
It's disheartening to know that my terminal length is so short. Some people think I'm just starting to grow my hair out, when in fact, I've been doing so for over 5 years. Equally discouraging is the fact that my hair is thin, fine and limp, despite excellent care and no chemicals. I know a perm would damage my hair... but at this point, it doesn't look that good anyways (for some reason it looks much better in the pictures than it does in real life), so I figured... why not try a perm? A female friend of mine got a perm a year ago, and she also dyes her hair, and it's not that badly damaged. She recommended the same salon to me that did her hair.
I figured a perm can't make it any worse... if anything, it could give my hair more volume. If it damages the hair, I'll get it cut short (but not too short, I still want to tie a ponytail), and then try regrowing. Or, maybe it's time to give up the dream of long hair and just go for "longish" hair or whatever hairstyle would look good on me. I'd be really sad, because I've always wanted long hair and finally got it, only it's not as good looking on me as I had hoped. Long hair feels like the right hairstyle for me. If only it looked better!
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My hair is fine and fragile too, Peter. The average hair strand is about 80 microns in diameter. The image shows 5 strands of my hair ranging from 65 to 75 microns in diameter.
I carefully lifted the scale from the measuring reticle in my microscope. I then placed it on each hair strand with a computer drawing program.
My ponytail bundle is about 2.5" in girth, which is about average. Some guys here have really fat ponytails. Neo is a good example. His is probably 3.5" in girth. He has a post a little way down the board now.
You really do have beautiful hair and I hope you don't make a bad decision that would set you back a few years.
Scott
Hi Scott,
That was pretty neat with those pictures of your hair under a microscope! I tried to measure the girth of my ponytail just now. It was a bit hard to do myself, but a quick measurement shows it to be approximately 2 inches, give or take a bit. I suspected it would be a bit thinner than average.
I didn't think my hair looked that good, so thank you very much to you and everyone else who has told me it looks good. I just wish it looked better. Some of my friends locally (males and females) have told me my hair looks too thin for long hair or a ponytail. It made me think and that's what led to the idea of a perm (suggested by a long haired female I've known for several years).
It seems like I'm taking a gamble with a perm. Or perhaps "short term gain, long term pain." I know intellectually that it's a bad idea (although the level of potential hair damage is unknown), but in my heart, I want fuller looking hair. I've been really discouraged with my hair lately and thought that a perm was the answer, but you guys are certainly making me think hard about it! I knew about the potential damage, but it sounds like it could be worse than I thought.
Peter, your mane looks awesome - and I agree with Scott that you should just leave it natural. You have invested 5 and 1/2 years and it has payed off as you look great.
It does boil down to your decision, but I think it would be mistake to try to make your hair any different than what your body and genes have already determined as best - I really think that in the end "natural" is always the better choice.
Please consider cancelling that appointment, but if you do keep it I hope it goes great and that you love the results.
Kasten
Hey Karsten, thanks for the kind words! My hair actually looks better in the pictures than it normally does in real life. I've been told by a few friends that it looks too thin for long hair. And a female friend with long hair (and a perm) suggested the perm.
It really goes against what I've always believed in - going natural and not trying to be something I'm not. My beard seems to be going gray now (kind of depressing), but I probably won't dye it, even though I'd prefer it to be all brown - just too much maintenance.
Altering my hair by getting a perm is certainly a big decision. I've actually been considering it for about a month now, but made the appointment for two weeks from yesterday. The only reason I've considered it is because my hair didn't turn out looking the way I had hoped, and I've given it a chance for over 5 years. But, as we always here on the MLHH, give any big decision the 2 week rule, so that's what I'm doing.
Hi Peter,
You should be proud of that mane!
I didn't like my own hair when I first grew it out, I always wanted long straight brown hair but that's not what I got. I thought about dying it and I actually used straightener (back in high school, I'm 47 now). Everybody's self image is a little negative, well except for some conceited people I know. lol.
I wouldn't do anything to change it. It might get messed up and then you'll think about cutting it.
As for being thin on top, who's going to see that unless their 8ft. tall?
You should hold your head up and smile, be proud. You have some damn cool hair!
Paul
Hi Paul,
Thanks! It seems everyone but me thinks that my hair looks OK. It's true, everyone seems to want (or have wanted at some point), hair that they didn't have. I'd be a bit happier with my hair if it looked thicker, and a bit longer.
To be honest, I am worried about the chemicals that would be used in a perm, and that I may not like the results. I've been contemplating that gamble for a few weeks now. You just gave me an idea, indirectly... maybe I could try some curlers (the ones that don't use heat, just the ones you put in your hair when it's wet). It may not be the same as a real perm, but it may give me an idea of what my hair would look like. Then if I don't like it, all I have to do is wash it again and the curls will be gone.
I do like the natural waves my hair has, but they are easily lost when combed with a wide-tooth comb. And, they only show up on the lower parts of my hair.
Yes, I think the curlers are a good idea too. I'll go pick some up in the next few days and try that. As for the blunt cut, you're right, it does make the hair look thicker. But, if I lost 4 inches off the bottom, that's about one year's growth though... my hair grows REALLY slowly!
Cheers!
Greetings Peter, you have a great head of hair and you should erase any thoughts of cutting it...and don't go the perm route since it can be damaging. I agree with Scott (Absolom), perhaps you can try MSN and a biotin supplement. I'm going to get some myself on Sunday. Stay strong and don't do anything you will regret.
Cheers,
Max
Hi Max,
Cutting my hair would be a last resort option. Even if I did, I'd still go for a "longish" hairstyle. I don't think I could go back to short hair ever again.
I didn't think a perm would cause too much damage, but maybe I've underestimated the potential damage. Everyone here seems to be really against that idea.
A while back I tried biotin and MSM. At the time, I didn't really notice any improvement, but maybe I'll try it again and keep it up long-term.
The shampoo and conditioner I tried (that are supposed to make hair thicker/fuller and give more volume) don't seem to be working, but then again, I've only been using them for a couple of weeks. Maybe it takes a bit longer to see results. It doesn't say on the bottle how soon it's supposed to work.
Thanks for the support and tips.
Hey Peter, glad to hear that you will not go short again even if you do cut. I have tried different shampoos to gain volume and thickness ( I have very fine hair) and none seem to work...in my opinion many of them are gimmicks although some like Pantene seem to add extra shine and smoothness but never extra volume, etc.
Hope you stick with it and have a great 2009.
Cheers,
Max
I agree with what the other have said about a perm being a bad idea, and I have a couple points to add. A perm only affects the hair which is permed, not the new hair which grows out. So it won't solve the problem with your scalp being visible for very long (if at all). After your hair has grown out a little, the hair near your scalp will be the same as it is now. Also, you can't assume that you'll have the same results with a perm as your female friend, because everyone's hair is different. One of the problems with perms is that there are so many variables that affect the result. I've heard hairstylists tell clients that even with their best efforts, they can't guarantee how a perm, especially a first perm with no prior experience to go on, will turn out. As far as the possibility for damage, the question is not whether there is damage, but how noticeable it is. The chemical process breaks bond in the hair in order to reform them into a new shape, but only a portion of the bonds get successfully reformed. Even if there's little visible damage your hair will be weaker.
If you do decide to get a perm, I'd suggest going to the best salon you can find, in order to get a very knowledgeable stylist. Whatever you end up doing, good luck!
Some good points. I did a bit of extra reading last night on perms and how they work. What those chemicals do sounds quite harsh. I knew they had to cause some damage, but had no idea how much. The salon I made the appointment at is a very good (and expensive) one. It's the one my friend got her perm done at. But, with the appointment being 2 weeks away, I have some time to decide and maybe cancel the perm and just go for a maintenance trim instead.
Cheers!
Hi Peter,
You have a great head of hair, and I totally agree with the advice of the other guys not to get a perm. The chemicals in a perm can cause serious damage to your hair, and it will never be the same again. Natural is always better! Also, the advice that Scott has given you to increase your terminal length is an excellent one.
Take care, and keep it growing,
David
Peter: You've gotten some good advice here, and I hope you try hot rollers to test the curly look before you go for it. It's all about perspective. My hair hasn't turned out as I had hoped either. I wanted to look like Daniel Day-Lewis in The Last of the Mohicans but instead I look like a defunct Klingon without brow ridges with thin corkscrew curls that barely reach past shoulder length after three years of growing. I can't imagine being unhappy with this length you've reached. I think my hair is really not going to get much longer than it is now. And I take care of it really well and never snap hairs while combing, etc. But somehow, I've become OK with this. You think you can see the top of your scalp? I'd post a picture, but it'd scare the hell out of everyone!
It's about wanting what you have, not having exactly what you want.
What I'm getting at is that I'd love to have the hair YOU have, just as you'd like the hair that others have. The irony. You've got good hair, and a permanent will ruin that. Also, curly hair isn't the bed of roses you might think. It is MUCH more of a hassle to make look good. You can't really comb it except when it's just been washed, and the tangles are omnipresent. You think you've got issues now...
Whatever you decide, good luck, but I hope you don't destroy what you have. I hope you can come to enjoy and be proud of what you have right now. It irks me that we are so programmed to want everything but what's right in front of us. Whoever told you your hair was too thin for a pony tail was handing out moronic advice. Looks fine to me.
What!??!, you're hair is damnright awesome, thats a mane many would die for, seriously, leave it and carry on doing what you have been doing, because it looks really cool Peter.
~ Dave
Thanks Dave, I never really thought there would be other guys who would wish for hair like mine, but you're right - there are guys with various situations that don't have the kind of hair they want and who would probably be happy with the kind of hair I have. It almost makes me feel guilty for complaining about my hair!
Incidentally, I remember watching your progress pictures a while back and always thought you had really cool looking hair (and still do). There are lots of great looking long hair styles, colours, textures, lengths, etc, on this forum. Your style is quite similar to what I was hoping to achieve. It suits you well.
Cheers, thanks bro!
Hey, Peter73. We are never happy with what we have. You have great looking hair, but a perm would cause permanent damage. Accept what you have been given, and be proud of it! Also, I think your belief that your hair is thin on top is just self-criticism. It looks fine to me.
Try to post more often. We love having you, and it is great for building self-esteem. Keep it growin' and flowin', and Happy New Year!
TLH
Thanks for the "welcome back" and for your feedback. I just bought a few things for my hair today and will report back later tonight on it. It's all natural, and I'm seriously thinking about canceling the perm now. I had no idea it could be so damaging, and my hair takes a long to grow (and that's providing I'm not losing hair on top as I suspect is happening)!
Thanks bro!
Hi Peter, glad to see you here again.
Honestly, I don't see any thinning on your head. If you can see you scalp (like on the 3th or 4th photo), I think it's only the parting of the hair.
I suggest you to examine your ends, to see if there is any breakage or damage which could lead to a shorter terminal length. I believe that scalp massages can help too.
Finally, I don't recommend a perm, as it's chemical. You have beautiful hair, so don't ruin it ! To improve the thickness, you may want to try some mix of henna (if you aren't afraid of some colors :))
Bye
Vivien
I agree, henna can help with the issues that you have with your hair, and people have reported that their hair feels thicker and looks shinier after treatment.
You can get brown with a mix of henna and indigo. I have done this and most of the hair is brown, not red, although hair that was gray now looks like red highlights.
If this is of any interest to you I highly recommend reading through this website: www.hennaforhair.com.
Good luck,
Chris
Hey Vivien and Chris, I hadn't thought of Henna... I'm not afraid of adding a bit of colour, so I might try that later (I'll read the info on that website about Henna). For now, I got some curlers and all-natural volumizing shampoo & conditioner, so I'll try that first.
The last time I coloured my hair was just before I started growing my hair long. In fact, the first trim I had cut off some badly damaged hair tips since the highlights were done with chemicals and left the hair brittle and semi-clear! But, Henna won't do that. And it's an added bonus if it also adds volume to the hair.
Thanks for the info on Henna, guys! I hadn't really thought of it.
There's an alternative to using curlers which you might want to try. After you wash your hair and dry it some so it's just damp, put it it in a braid and let it dry that way. Then remove the braid. You should get some "texture" in your hair, as the stylists like to call it, kind of loose spiral waves.
I really like that look you described. But... I'm not very good at braiding my own hair and it's rare that there's anyone around who can do it for me when it's still damp. I'll have to practice some more... practice makes perfect! But, I did buy some curlers today just to see how my hair would look after using them.
Cheers!
Very, very nice looking mane Peter!
I certainly don't think it needs any "improvement".
- Oren
Hi Jann,
Thanks for the compliment. Yes - I am still going for terminal length.
I have been more busy with my "analog" life away from the computer and thus have not spent a lot of time online lately.
- Oren
Yes,I do remember you even though you have not posted in awhile.After looking at your pics and reading your post I have this to offer.
I think, from what I see,that you have hair that's well cared for are in great condition.Maybe you have reached terminal but even so you have good length there as that's far from having short hair.Sure you could cut back a few inches to give your hair a more fuller appearance but really is it all that bad?I mean my own hair is straight and fine too and believe me I wish my hair was much more dense than it is.But then I look at pics that I took and I admit the length is nice and long even though my tail isn't really that thick.Now I've done the same thing that you are currently thinking about and in hindsight I believe it was a mistake.My hair,after the perm, got nasty tangles in it and I was very concerned that I was going to have to chop a lot off.Fortunately I just let the perm grow out and I saved my hair but never tried that again.I'm attaching an old pic of me with that perm which dates back to the late 1980s.
So I hope you think hard about that and just try and be satisfied with your hair as it now stands.If you really want fuller looking hair your best bet is to just loose a few inches and leave it natural.Actually doing a perm shortens your hair anyway because it produces curls.Just ask any curly headed guy on this board and they will tell you how curls hide the true length.Anyway good luck with your decision and do what makes you the most happy as that's whats most important:)Cheers my friend.
Mark
Hey Mark. When I saw your pic I thought Peter Frampton had joined the board!!! Actually, I quite like that look. My senior high school photo reveals my hair growing out of a perm..and that was in '76 when the pic was taken. I'll have to dig it up and post it sometime. It's pretty frightening really.
Hope you had a good weekend and best wishes for the new year.
Cheers,
Max
LOL!That's funny you should mention the comparison as now that you brought it up I kinda thought so too.Actually the perm didn't look that bad but what a difference from my usually straight,straight hair.He's another pic of me around 1992 with the perm long gone!Wow,what a difference:)have a great New Year Max and I think I'll call you again then.Cheers.
Mark
Hey Mark, great pic again! That one rules! Yeah, should be home new years day during the late afternoon. Until then, happy 2009 to you!
Max
Hi Mark, thanks for the picture and the information. Even before reading your post, I was getting the idea that a perm might not be the best idea after all. My friend who had her hair permed did not offer such insight. She was was quick to point out how nice it looked, but did not mention the negative aspects as you did. Some I knew of, some I did not.
I'm thinking of changing my appointment to be just for a trim. Today I went out and bought set of curlers so I can "test" the look without chemicals. It would be too much of a hassle to do on a regular basis (that's why the perm would have been nice), but if it looks OK, I can do it once in a while when I'm going out somewhere nice and don't have my hair in a ponytail.
Thanks!
Hi Peter,
There's been some good advice already given, I can't add much more except to say that I also have hair that I don't feel 100% about. My hair is a bit thin on top, especially on the crown, and the short hair frizzes are running rampant. I've learned to love what I have, reconizing that each one of us in the human race is differnet. And that's the way it should be or we wouldn't have anything to talk about.
I do think your hair looks pretty damn good but if you do decide to try something out, try to do the least damaging thing first. Your hair may not be where you think it should, but there are plenty of guys that envy what you have now.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Bruce
Wow, I never expected so much feedback and so quickly! First, thank you very much to all of you who complimented me on my hair as it is now. I guess it took a few of you to point out that there are others guys worse off than me (which I didn't think was possible) and its made me appreciate what I have.
But... I'm still not totally satisfied with the appearance of my hair. Although there's not much I can do about the length (besides hair extensions, which is not an option, don't worry), there is something I can do about the volume and overall appearance, and it doesn't involve any chemicals.
I just came back from the store... although I forgot to get MSM and Biotin, I did get a few other goodies which I will report back on later tonight. After doing some googling on perms and reading what you guys had to say about perms I think I'll forgo the perm. Although I kind of knew it might not be the best idea, now, I know what's really involved and don't want to set myself back a few years in hair growth (and that's providing I can still grow hair - it IS a bit thin on top).
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate all of the help and information!
Hey Dude.. I think you got great hair, but reading thru here, I think its you, me, and everybody else, were just not happy with what we have... Youre not happy, Im not Happy, and so on, I think we see somebody we'd like to look like and because we dont were unhappy... thats my biggest fear, more than looking goofy while I grow it, I fear, when I reach my goal, it wont look as I hoped. and wont like it, I dont know dude, I guess theres really not an answer to this... just think, Statistics have shown Bronze winners are happier than Silver winners, cause silvers think they could have gotten gold, while Bronze thinks he could have gotten nothing at all (4 place) and hes just glad hes up there and at least his flag is up on the podium..... I guess it all depends who you compare yourself with, so if you think youre thining on top, think about ol Ben Franklin, the dude wanted longhair, but was bald, tough luck... yet he pulled it off and he got on the 100 bill.... peace..
Yeah, everybody seems to want hair that they don't have. Although some are happy or very pleased with what they have, I think many people envy what someone else, like you said.
It's nice to get supportive comments here. Some of the people I see on a daily basis make snide comments about my hair and half-joke about cutting my hair. A few of my friends (male and female) currently have, or have had long hair and understand. Some are indifferent. So, I always appreciate the feedback from you guys on this forum.
Thanks again!
Peter, I certainly agree with everyone else that you should keep your awesome hair! Here are more haircare tips: Try an olive oil paste or other deep conditioner and leave it on your hair for at least 20 minutes before rinsing. Wash your hair with conditioner most of the times, rather than shampoo. Finger comb rather than brush (especially if the brush snags or pulls hairs).
Finger combing can also give a bit of wave sometimes. When your hair starts to dry, try "scrunching" your locks (squeeze then a bit into compression) for somewhat of a curled look. Let air dry; try to not use a hair dryer! And of course vitamins really help with new growth. I'm just listing several of the things that other members have recommended - they all are very helpful. This is the year to re-appreciate all the work you've accomplished with your wonderfully long hair! Best, johnnie
Hi Peter.
Your hair looks nice, and I suggest you stay away from perming or any kind of treatments on your hair. Your hair looks fine the way it is. Your hair is good length, even though you may think it is not long enough.
Just keep on growing, naturally, and don't perm it. Perming is not good for your hair. Even though your hair may not be the way you want it, perming will only make it worse.
ones with a blue shirt were just before I washed my hair (not washed for 3 days), the ones with a brown shirt is right after I washed my hair and let it air dry:
Matthew aka Regardless