new thread
As someone who has been an active member of this site for 2.5 years now, and has been viewing for well over 3, I'd like to say that it is very much disturbing that some people on here are allowed to throw around such hateful and vengeful terms such as "hair nazi," especially to other posters. Also, as a former moderator, it's also quite disheartening to see a community that I spent much of my time trying to help and giving advice, fall into an oblivion of petty bickering and senseless emotional diatribe.
I've come to meet a lot of great people from this board, many of whom I keep in contact with via other channels of communication. However, many of them have stopped posting here because of the lack of respect for other posters, as well as the absence of much logic or reasoning behind most advocate posts. I don't know if it is the site's leadership, or simply the result of certain individuals who have decided that they have the right to hijack this board to use as their personal soapbox for mindless attacks toward people with differing opinions. I enjoy discussion and logical debate, but I won't stand for baseless attacks and hyper-emotional garbage.
Therefore, I'm going to ask, as a last post, for the moderators on this site to be a little more aware of what is being said by the posters here, as it certainly won't reflect well on new readers, and will not at all help better the acceptance of longhairs by society in general. By spewing hate-filled, nonsensical rhetoric, instead of engaging in progressive action that will increase the success of equality, you will get nowhere.
Many of you are great people, and those who wish to keep in contact me are free to do so. Perhaps someday I will rejoin this board when it is a better place, a place much like it used to be. Until then, I won't be associated with it.
-James
James,
I too myself have felt the attitude of the board has gone down hill. In fact, it seems to have gone down hill to the point that it is giving us long hairs a bad name. There are certain individuals that seem to have a really ugly bulling type attitude and even take it out on members of the board.
This is why I seldom post as I used to post pretty frequent. Heck, I even feel that because I am balding, I am not even welcome on this board do to an upsetting post in the past in which even members of the moderation crew took part in. I also was not happy with the bashing of certain religions as well.
I used to feel very welcome at this board, but now I am not so sure.
I am sure I will get "flamed" for this post, but I feel I need to speak up as well.
Hey -
I'm only a young poster myself, and a relative newbie when it comes to hair growing. I joined this board because of the great examples and encouragement I witnessed in certain other members; I figured this was the best resource for me online as far as finding hair care information as well as simple fellowship with and affirmation from like-minded people. As for the hatefulness that James is addressing, I've only seen some of it - but already I too share in his lament. I won't be leaving, because I didn't put as much into this as he did and so it doesn't affect me quite as strongly. But I do think there need to be some changes as far as communication goes. I understand that as both a young person and a recent member, my opinion doesn't carry the weight of those who've committed more long-term to this board. Yet even so, I hope that in joining James' thread I might in some way help this board return to what it was meant to be.
-Jesh
Your opinion should carry as much weight if not a little more considering you are the future of this board....just sayin. I don't think it would be so great if all of a sudden the board members started to literally die off =P sorry to be morbid...
I'm sorry you and some of the other guys in this thread feel the way you do. I apologize on behalf of everyone, even if I don't know who you're talking about. I try really hard to have good manners and treat people like I want to be treated, and it makes me sad when people are mean and don't try to understand the other man's perspective. That you say you feel unwelcome is not a good sign. This may sound all sappy and naive, but it's my feelings about it.
I would hope you wouldn't get flamed, but there has been a bit more vitriol spilling out here as of late. Certain types of posts seem to trigger it. This board, while having longhairs in common, also has a lot of diverse characters. Some may be a bit more, shall we say, strong, in their approach. I do notice that those with the strongest opinions, are coming from personal experience with longhair discrimination. Therefore they may be a bit angry, and likely to spiel more rhetoric. It's the nature of the beast. Also, differing personalities will clash. No getting around that fact. Butting heads in inevitable. Somehow I knew that thread was headed for trouble. The OP set a political tone, was surprised there wasn't a halt by mods.
I have been surprised by other threads, like the one you referenced above, that disintegrated when it would have been better to end it somehow. Don't know if this board has a function that allows mods to 'lock' threads, but this is what many others do with heated discussions. I understood where James was coming from in that thread, he was pointing out that our democratic process doesn't operate the way the OP would like. At the same time, I understand why Paul feels the way he does about those intolerant to longhair, and uses the 'Hair Nazi" term towards them. Everybody has opinions, but we don't all have to agree. We all do seem to agree that longhaired males are discriminated against, we just apparently disagree as to how to go about ending such discrimination. :( A division is developing, that certainly won't help.
Yeah my hair is somewhat long now, but I think I have very little in common with most long-hair members here. Some of them I'd love to give a piece of my mind to but most of the time I just bite my tongue and lurk.
Although I make myself pretty scarce around here now, I was once a regular poster on this board too. The anonymity of the internet seems to encourage the worst impulses in people. If it weren't so easy to use fake names and fake identities on messageboards such as this one (and if you think it's bad here, take a look at the public comments on the CBS News website), there would be a lot more civility on the internet. The name-calling and spitefulness isn't the only reason I've pretty much given up on this board, but it doesn't encourage me to stay, and to put it bluntly, I've never felt like a valued member of this community - or even much of a member at all.
So you leave the board for this reason ? Simply because some members have "strong" opinions about hair&society ? The opinion of one or two members doesn't necessarly reflect what others think, even it's shouted louder and everywhere. People here aren't stupid or/and fueled by hate (Or am I too naive ?), so I think there is a limit someone can't pass, anyway. We won't fall into extremism. At least if those who are peaceful and moderated like you don't leave us. By leaving the board, you don't help it, you just give up. Are you so tired ?
I believe you still can help the board. Of course, you can.
Anyway, the decision is yours. But it's sad to see someone go for reasons like this...
Good bye, and good luck. And of course, keep the hair growing ! ;)
Vivien
...when you leave, there will be one less civil and thoughtful voice on this board. It is a sad day! I do agree with you that there does seem to be a lack of civility lately. As Stormy pointed out, it is the anonymity of the internet which seems to give otherwise good people the "right" to be rude. The same thing happens on the highway. Good citizens become aggressive, cutting others off. It isn't right there nor is it right here.
I hope you stick around lending us your thoughts, sharing your adventures. It does keep this place sane. If not, then continue to enjoy life as you have. It's a great adventure!
Bruce
Well, I must say I come here almost exclusively for hair tips, inspiration, and to occasionaly impart advice (when I feel qualified, LOL). I started as a lurker and eventually chimed in, although I do so infrequently. Anyway, while I enjoy most everyone's comments on here, I don't strive to become personal with folks I only know on the Internet; therefore, I generally simply click on very on-topic posts (updates, questions, etc.), and simply move along if I read drama unfolding. IMHO, this is the best approach to avoid getting offending or offending others on the Internet : )
As a general rule, this is one of the more tolerant groups I have found on the web (in any regard). I enjoyed your updates and posts in the past, James, and wish you well. : )
I wish to keep in contact with you, James. If you have MySpace or perhaps even a simple e-mail address, let me know. Hope to see you back here in the future!
Hegg
Okay, everyone will probably think this is just because James is leaving, but really, it's not.
I have been a lurker then poster on this board on and off since I was 15, 7 years ago. After sitting back and watching this mudslinging go unregulated, I feel I must also say I will never return to this board.
For clarification, James never EVER said that Paul should be banned, he simply asked that harsh words should not go unregulated, from anyone. The transference of generalities as personal attacks seems to me the result of a guilty conscience.
I honestly feel sad to go, as I've benefited greatly from this site, but I cannot be part of a site that allows such ardent hate-mongering to go unchecked.
Goodbye.
Not you too!!
What I said to James goes for you too Austin. You will be missed!
Bruce
I'll catch you on Facebook, but all this got me to thinking. Here's what happened...
The sad thing is that we live in a terribly imperfect world. It would be great if there were no such thing as discrimination or elitism or inequality. We are not all created equal. That "All men are created equal" is a fallacy on several levels. If it were true, then there would be far fewer laws on the books to regulate behavior. Laws exist to regulate behavior, to keep the stronger from preying on the weaker. If everyone were equally rational and intelligent, no one would take advantage of anyone else since all would be equally able to work, think, and provide for themselves. No one could outsmart anyone else and convince them to do things unwillingly. But in our world, we have propaganda, crime, war, schemes, deception, inflation, paranoia, fear, etc. Why? Because there is someone out there who will believe that it is "right" to go die for his country because his leaders tell him so. Because there is someone out there who actually believes if he makes three easy payments of $19.95 for an abdominal exercise machine that he will look like the guy on TV. Because there is someone out there who believes that the barbarians are at the gate, that we must fear the unknown for no other reason than we do not know it.
It's said in real estate, that "prices are determined in the marketplace by the actions of rational buyers and sellers." If you take out the word "rational," you can then explain boom and bust cycles. We never learn. What I'm getting at is that most of us just don't think enough. We never learn. We repeat the same mistakes over and over. The sins of the father are actually visited on the child, after a fashion. No one wants to be treated wrongly, unless he's a masochist. No one wants to be discriminated against. Men with long hair want to be treated with respect, but those men must also have respect and must think. Those who own businesses do not want to be discriminated against by their prospective customers. Those who own businesses have to cater to their prospective customers and keep them happy. Discrimination against a business means it goes out of business. Keeping the rabble happy often means projecting a certain image. Image sells. We live in an image-conscious society. Is it right to ask a business owner to jeopardize his profits by hiring someone who looks different than the safe, mainstream in appearance, who might cause potential customers to discriminate against said business? I don't know. What is right? Is right to ask an employee to modify his appearance to suit a certain image? If the employment is voluntary, maybe it is.
But isn't it unfair to deny someone work who is otherwise qualified on the basis of appearance? Of course. But that different appearance is certainly going to dissuade a potential customer, if that customer is only operating on a superficial level. And superficial -- what of that? Every first impression is by inevitable nature superficial. If Mr. Wealthy Lawyer walks into his local Mercedes dealership and sees Johnny Full-Body-Tattoo selling cars, what is Mr. Wealthy Lawyer to think? "There goes the neighborhood!" Whether any of this is "right" is something else altogether. If a girl catches your eye across a crowded room, love at first sight, it's a superficial impression. Love, that most treasured and celebrated emotion, Venus' gift, Cupid's little tryst, begins with nothing more than superficiality.
But "I" want to keep my hair long, and it's not fair that someone can tell me "I" have to cut it or not have a job, eat and have a house to live in. "I" don't fit the negative stereotypes that long hair connotes. That's in the past. Why can't anyone see that and hire "me"? "They" can't really get to know you in ten minutes on a job interview. It's self-preservation. Though we might be superficial, we have this almost instinctual drive to survive. When "they" believe that hiring Mr. Longhair is detrimental, then he has to go. There are no easy answers, and nothing is ever simple.
Homo sapiens is a terrible misnomer. There is not a whole lot of "sapiens" going on. It's the theriophilic paradox -- animals behave more rationally than supposedly rational man. An animal kills for food. It doesn't kill for war and sport and vengeance as rational, thinking man does. If we really thought, if we really sympathized, we'd have never -- created the need for discrimination that caused the "Man" to discriminate against the "man" with -- long hair, or who is, deaf, in a wheelchair, isn't as handsome, is too smart and a threat to the boss, isn't smart enough (didn't pass the screening exam) etc.
People just like to believe what they're told. It's easier that way you see. If someone irrefutably tells me that Noah's flood killed the dinosaurs, I don't have to think about it any more. All those scientists with their Paleozoic mumbo-jumbo are just the devil's minions who want to push me off the path of righteousness. I feel so much better now. Belief erases uncertainty: uncertainty causes fear because we fear what we don't know. It's all a big circle that falls back on itself.
Probably 80% of us like to believe what we're told, because it's easier that way. About 15% of us want to do the telling, because we're insecure and like to oppress others, as we have been oppressed in the past. Though we'd never admit this, it's true. Probably 5% or less of us like to cry and write poems and philosophy and think and cry some more and dream the utopian dream, then maybe whine about how unjust "it" all is, how unfair life is, how we should do this and that, how iniquity is rampant, and then write some more and go volunteer at the shelter. Whether or not anything is better after that, we sure do feel better (we 5%). We've tried to tell the 15% for ages how they shouldn't treat the 80% any less than they'd want to be treated, but they never listen because they're concerned about their image, their money-making, self-preserving image.
But there is a niche for everyone if they look hard enough. If there's one constant, it's anomaly. Just when you think you've got it all figured out, it all goes to hell and changes. There are always exceptions inside generalities. Hope is still there in Pandora's box.
But now what's worse -- existing among the problem and learning to live around it, or facing it and fixing it once and for all? If I want to keep my long hair, do I leave the school that tells me to cut it and attend another, do I keep looking for a job elsewhere, do I find new friends who accept me for who I am? Or, do I get the laws changed, do I shout until someone hears me, or shoots me, do I throw the issues in everyone's face, take drastic action?
Gandhi advocated a passive resistance; India eventually got her independence. The French chopped of King Louis's head and got something other than absolute monarchy -- they got Napoleon actually, but that's not the point. Who's victory was better, and which way was better. Who can say? And I'm not so sure what winning means. As soon as India became independent, Pakistan and India came to blows, many died. Nothing is simple.
... you grok much, Matt. Thanks for sharing your sanity amidst this madness.
--Val
(n/t)
What is this "or", Monsieur? ;-)
A very worthwhile post. Let me just add a couple of thoughts:
1. This is why Hollywood and Madison Avenue are so important; they can do their part in consciousness-raising if they want to (and too often Madison Avenue in particular doesn't want to). I guess that's why so many "different"-looking people wind up in "creative" fields--because that's where they're welcomed.
2. Sometimes it happens bit by bit. I'm already noticing more dudes with medium-length hair (at least young ones) and fewer crewcuts and such. Slow and steady, etc. (Kind of like the way hair grows!)
I'm sure you're doing what's best for you, which is all that really matters.
I distanced myself from this board several months ago after having my own feathers ruffled by a shocking amount of intolerance...Just recently I posted an update, and whaddya know...in less than a month there's already more drama....not just drama, hateful drama. I really hope this will change, and I'm honestly glad to see that I'm not the only one who's noticed the change of attitude on the board.
I don't blame you for leaving, but I'm sure everyone will miss you. <3
Tristram
Thanks for the link back to the recent update post I mentioned! =P
Although...if it got that ugly I doubt anyone would want anything to do with the board. Bloody hairsticks over politics??? YIKES!!!
Ditto about the link, Antinous.
Tristram, I thought you'd cut off most of your hair--sometimes it's wonderful to be wrong. :-) Was it someone else?
You're probably thinking of Tristan, a very cool guy who decided to part with his locks a short time ago. I have a strong feeling he'll be rejoining the ranks eventually, though.
--Val
Yeah, that does sound right. He had photos and everything. But I think you're right, from the way he was talking. :-)
I still want to stay in touch with you and Austin. Remember, feel free to send me messages on MySpace.
Matthew aka Regardless
PS. I will show you pictures of Hawaii when I come back.
It would a shame for you to go, but do what you feel you must. Hopefully, you might return sometime in the future, your support is needed.
I have seen this trend in other forums, I can't help but wonder if the economic downturn that has be come so widespread, just has people on the edge more? There's more petty bickering, and the world's economy goes down the tubes. Coincidence perhaps? I think not...
Hey there, Carol...
"... I have seen this trend in other forums, I can't help but wonder if the economic downturn that has be come so widespread, just has people on the edge more? There's more petty bickering, and the world's economy goes down the tubes. Coincidence perhaps? I think not..."
Exactly my thought, also. I've seen it in the past, over the years, not only in forums but in society and life in general. I definitely agree with you!
Take care...
-Rick
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It would be sad to see you go, James. I know it is not possible to make all of our users happy 100% of the time and some threads can get a bit out of hand at times. Our board is much more civil than most out there on the internet. Even so, hot topics can flare up. No discussion board is perfect and people will disagree at times.
Even if you and Austin do leave, try to keep in touch. I am including the link to my MySpace page.
Scott