new thread
After looking over the tons of posts from all sides I'll comment in this separate thread.
Concerning the reply by Chris, do we know who this Chris? I've done some checking and I don't see anything so far
to tell me he's for real. His use of lots of CAPS and the fact he's not continued to take part in the conversation other than a quip about long toe nails and body odor indicate possible troll. I could be wrong but that's my feeling on Chris and his comments, I don't give it much as he hasn't established himself here. We will have this from time to time as people can post anonymously.
Concerning Pauls "hair nazi" comments. Perhaps they may have been a bit strong in the opinion of some but when you look at the post he's replying to I can see where the emotion would come in, after all Chris seemed quite emotional. We humans have emotions and they flare up from time to time when the buttons are pushed. Lets not merely look at the responses themselves but try and understand what triggers them.
Concerning James and Austin. It's unfortunate they and others feel the board is slipping As hard as we try to maintain a steady course we hit a big wave every now and then but usually right ourselves afterward. Now if I may be more direct. James and Austin I think very highly of you guys and have enjoyed your contributions over the years and I would hate to see you go. However I am a little disappointed that your posting this "I'm leaving" thread. This is the second time you've expressed plans to leave us because of something you find intolerable or a trend you find disturbing. It is your choice so go if you must, but being the smart guys that you are I would not expect you to pick up your marbles and go home. As you know from moderating you can never please everybody...ever. If we leave all these threads and replies your not happy, if we remove bits and pieces or all of them then "they aren't happy and will hurl criticism and threaten to leave. It's a no win situation.
Last on my list is Pauls thread "lets Vote on it" For those who have replied please understand I am removing it because I think the issue has run it's course we've had plenty to say on this and it's all still there to read. Lets let it go and all be friends again or at least civil. The big wave has passed so let the ship that is MLHH right itself again so we can move on.
Thanks
Kevin
good call
Maybe I am just lucky but I haven't noticed any decline in civility of the board. Perhaps bacause I have been away so much of the time that I missed it. But the board usually seems pretty much the same each time I have returned to it.
Would it only inflame the problem if people posted about what specifically bothers them here? If people are leaving here because they are fed up with something is it better if they say why before they leave or if they just vanish?
I like this site because I feel like I don't have to censor myself here. I think that people can disagree and that is a strength of the site, not a weakness. To only stay on a site if everyone agrees with you is setting the bar too high for reality I think.
Maybe I just don't freak at the word Nazi as to me (fortunately) it is mostly used as a synonym for control freak anymore, and has no personal significance.
We at MLHH are not a monolithic group of completely like minded people so when people blow off MLHH as too awful to tolerate it is a slight to everybody here who DOES enjoy it now. Am I bad or unenlightened because I still enjoy it today?
James' post just irked me.
Hi Kevin,
It was probably a good idea, I don't see how it could have helped anyway.
I only posted it because I was starting to feel like the only one who was willing to stand up and say what I really think to a troll or one who wants to discriminate against us, which ever he is.
I'm posting this just to say I support our prez in his judgment on this issue, lets just drop it and move on. Don't let one troll cause this much friction between us.
Paul
Paul
Sorry, could not get back to on your last thread, I work for 5- 7 days straight then get back to reality when were done
I dont live in Alabama, my sister does
I live In upstate New York
Id like to move to Alabama( mostly economics) but the wife dont like the heat
Steve
Well, naturally I missed the whole thing. Maybe it's better that way.
Think of it, though--the fact that one troll post could cause such a ruckus is evidence of the board's unfamiliarity with them. IOW, this is a relatively troll-free board, and we should be thankful for that.
But just as a reminder: Net Rule #1: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
(OTOH, some like to hone their flaming skills on trolls, which is generally considered fairly OK, as well as posts reading "PLONK", the sound of a troll hitting the kill file (where available).
First of all I should have saw this coming when a political thread hit the board.You are right Kevin, as you can never please the masses as someone is always going to be POed with such discussions.I feel bad when good members like James and now Austin say they will leave as what does such actions really solve.I would think staying and being a counterbalance to the unruly ones who drop bombs and then sit back and fan the flames.By leaving it shows that these trolls are winning as they accomplished their mission of disrupting the board and getting regulars mad at each other.Its a shame when the mlhh lets anonymous users post and then they abuse the privilege by doing what they do.We could restrict the board to registered users and not allow others but we do want to keep an open society I would think.Anyway as I see it you take the good with the bad and just try to ignore the problem posters who probably aren't even longhairs to begin with.
Mark
I was kind of surprised when Paul wondered why more people didn't jump on this Chris poster for what he said. I thought it was because it was obvious the guy was a troll and the usual thing is not to feed the trolls by replying. The guy couldn't have been more obvious if he posted under the alias of Troll lol.
But taking a few swings at trolls is sometimes hard to resist if you're in the mood for a bit of a fight! I hope you guys keep the board open to everyone and let the civilized ones pass through and the borderline trolls get eviscerated online by those in the mood!
Hi Chris G:)Not the other Chris!LOL.Yes, I read Chris's response to me and decided it wasn't even worth the effort to strike back.Looks like Paul had no problem though which is cool.Anyway I'm sure things will settle down and we can all be friends again:)
Mark
Whats a troll ?
Steve
PS. sorry for last post hit wrong key
Someone who posts vitriol intentionally to stir the pot. They then sit back and get enjoyment over the reactions (and/or overactions) of regular posters. The word originated in USENET, where trolling is common, as most of USENET is unmoderated.
Carol,
Thanks for the definition, kinda thought it was such a thing
Steve
It lives under a bridge and frightens goats!
John ,
Like on the kids cartoon Dora the eexplorer?? lol
Steve
Indeed Mark it's nice to see a fair, free and well run forum and where both sides of a point of view can be raised. I'm so glad we have this forum and I hope that we can rise above some things and just the positive things about having longhair.
We certainly do have a very well run moderation team in the background that keep an eye on things and the unruly ones under control.
Cheers,
John.B
Very well put, and you have my thanks for what must seem like a thankless job, sometimes.
Chris
I agree with you, but I do not like losing board members such as James due to some "bad" threads. By the way, I read some of the postings to the "anti-discrimination legislation" thread, and discrimination is one of the things I have added to my list of condemned items. My list of condemned things currently has 14-15 items and discrimination is one of them. I do not tolerate discrimination.
Matthew aka Regardless
That's funny Matthew, I had just got through reading that condemned list of yours when I saw this post. I loved it.
We all should have such passion.
Paul
n/t
Whahoooooah..... Wow, Ya go off and work and party for 4 days and ya miss all the action man....
I was allways told " You want keep bein freinds, keep the religios and political conversations to a minimum"
But I m a newby
Justin, kudos for takin charge man
Sorry to see some chose to leave
Steve
There are many reasons that I like this place -
One is the (usually) friendly support of the long hair journey.
Another is that long hair often sits atop cool & reasonable heads.
Thanks! A very nice and diplomatic post.
.
Even without the possible troll comments, that thread was politically charged. I think James was also dismayed that the OP entertained an idea, and some agreed with it. The 'hair nazi' comments, I feel, were the proverbial 'straw that broke the camel's back'. If the OP wasn't going to outline how to relistically carry out his idea, why post in the first place, unless he expected all to agree? Those not in agreement, stated why that would not work as proposed.
Anytime a subject involves religion or politics, it's bound to disintegrate. Not too mention inviting trolls to futher stir the pot. In the event the troll might be real, why not initially point out fallacies? Just don't engage in a tete-a-tete if you realize someone is trolling. Usually the way they reply is a good indicater. Some boards get disclaimer posts from moderators, intended to prevent a thread from disintegrating. Don't know if disclaimers would help or not.
No easy answers. Not every one agrees with everyone, not all are happy with decisions or lack thereof. There have been a lot of heated discussions, followed by a few temporary ( and a rare permanent) defections of upset members. The threads on transgender longhairs and skullets were two that became divisive. Some members were directly hurt by the perceived intolerance that others were being allowed to express. The price to be paid for freedom of speech, is that you may have to allow the speech of those dissenting from your opinions.
I'd rather James and Austin remain and be a voice here, but I get the impression they are feeling oppressed. I'd rather they take a vacation, and come back when the waters seem less murky, and more inviting.
(n/t)
Hey Kevin,
Thanks so much for the beautifully worded Presidential message, --- although I have to confess that I at first didn't have a clue what in the hell you were talking about (LOL).... I guess that's what I get for being away from the hyperboard for too long!
When I was a kid, trolls were those cute little long-haired naked nuetered toys that looked more male than female; but, had hair that was so long (usually white), especially in comparison to its tiny little body, that you could wrap the hair around and around its body and butt and take it between the legs like a diaper, --- a WONDERFUL inspiration for a weird little kid like me, who had a dad that forced buzzcuts on me and my brothers every summer. Hey, I'll admit it: trolls were so much my all-time absolute IDOL that I hoped to grow up someday to actually become one (LOL)!!
With my hair getting whiter and whiter by the day, as well as it getting longer and longer every year, I think I look just like a troll myself now, --- although I am definitely NOT a nueter (lol)....
All kidding aside, I didn't realize the board was getting a lot of rude comments and/or disagreements between members recently; but, I don't read the board as often or as regularly as I used to anymore. I'm also very sorry to hear about James and Austin feeling the need to leave MLHH; but, I guess I must have missed whatever it was that offended them so. Maybe I'm just too thick-skinned to let many sarcastic or negative comments bother me much anymore, --- or, maybe I'm guilty of being just a bit too sarcastic myself as well... In any case, since I didn't see whatever the controversy was all about, then I guess I can't comment on it (lol)!!...
And now back to crawling under my favorite bridge, letting my hair spill down, and wrapping myself up in it and falling back to sleep again...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... (snoring LOUDLY - lol....)
- Ken
All this is very sad but seems to reflect a growing intolerance in the world with views with which individuals disagree. I saw some of those which seem to be at the root and whilst some of the language is extreme, they are not typical of this Board. So where is freedom of speech and tolerance of others even when we disagree with them in the American 21st century?
To James and Austin specifically, please reconsider: You have both brought a lot here yet seem to have grown bitter for some reason - this being the second threatened departure. If that really is your view after some thought then go - with everyone's good wishes for your future together. If not, take a holiday for a couple of days (no more) and then come back.
The Board is changing just as its regular contributors change. Many of us have been longstanding participants but this is no different from any other facet of life. It moves on and we should all move with it, shape it yes, but not try to live in a bubble.
Which reminds me of one of my favorite passages in the bible
"This Too Shall Pass"
Todd
I hadn't got the impression that anything was going all that bad with the board. Certainly, there was nothing that looked like an existential crisis.
Something was deemed inappropriate and modded off? That's a fairly routine event.
Now, if the board went an entire week with no posts at all, then it would be in trouble.
I am just glad that there is a board in existance quite like this one. I used to post every day but have recently taken a somewhat backseat approach to the boad because of school duties but rest assured, I will never leave for good nor would I want the site to dissapear.
peace
clayton
Well said Clayton as I too share your sentiment.What an absolute
shame it would be for us longhairs if an mlhh site did not exist.For those
who choose to leave, well who really is more hurt by such actions.Just
something to ponder.
Mark
WTF?
Since it appears most regular users have commented, or skipped it altogether, I feel like I can finally respond.
I have stood back not only to see my character assassinated, but drawn and quartered as well.
After reading all of the replys to James and Kevins posts, I'm no longer sure I'm even welcome here. You think James and Austin feel oppressed? It seems like I'm regarded as worse than a hair hating nazi troll.
The rule maybe "don't feed the trolls", I know that but I beg your pardon, that particular troll was not fed, it was eaten. It would have tasted much better too if I had not been attacked for it.
I called the anonymous "Chris" a "Hair Nazi", so what. Did any of you even read HIS post?
Btw, not that it matters but it was the Romans (who had short hair) not the Celts or German tribes who saw barbarians at the gate. Does any one remember how long the Romans dominated these people? It was because they never united.
My efforts to unite students and other concerned longhairs can be seen on MySpace. That's rather simple but at least I'm doing something.
I do not see "barbarians at the gate" my friends, I am the barbarian.
Paul
Nobody should have even attacked you at all. You were defending us from an obvious ignorant, hateful rant. You were standing up for what is right, and I don't see how anyone here can place you in the wrong. Since when is standing up for what is right wrong?
Me and you are very much marching to the beat of the same drummer! Thanks, it means a lot to me.
Paul
Don't worry Paul as I'm glad your with us here on this board.At least you take action and are not just a passive user.I think its cool that you put so much into the longhair cause for the guys.The perfect example being what you are doing at the local level by you.I would hate to see a troll post given a pass instead you put him in his place.Anyway hope this hasn't left a bad taste in your mouth figuratively speaking.Just keep up the good fight and hopefully the longhairs will prevail:)
Mark
Thanks my friend,
I wasn't about to let that troll as*h*** "Chris" mess with my buddy Hairball!
Besides, roasted troll meat is a much overlooked delicacy. Just take one obnoxious troll, add flame... voila!
Paul
Keep fighting the good fight, Paul. This is something you're passionate about, and on which you're not afraid to take a stand. I applaud you for that.
What I believe ruffled a few feathers is the fact that the bluntness of your words, quite frankly, sets you apart from the way a lot of people communicate on the MLHH. Part of the culture here (most of the time) is the extension of abundant courtesy between members. For the most part, this is one of the things I like best about this online community. However, there is also something to be said for shaking things up from time to time, and I think you picked a good and valid time to do so.
Now it's time for everyone to relax, take a few deep breaths, and get back to what this forum is all about: supporting and advising men who desire to grow their hair long.
--Val
Hey Val,
Yeah, I like that abundant courtesy too, although I have seen a lot of innuendo lately. I do plan on dropping this thing as soon as I set a few things straight.
In my response to Matt B, "The way I see it" I spell it out because he seems to have missed something, I'm not sure what.
I felt like I was coming to the defense of the board for laying it on that "Chris" guy.
But the thing that still perplexes me is James having a problem with me calling that troll "Chris" a Hair Nazi. It's not the first time I've used that phrase here. No one has ever complained before.
From his post, "Hair nazi'' (my exit from the board)" he makes it clear that I am the reason he's leaving. Incredible.
Makes me feel like that crap you get on your foot walking around the dogpen.
Thanks,
Paul
"Nazi" nowadays has two meanings, and the more common one is "control freak". This is not a new meaning. I've heard it used that way for several decades. Grammatically in that context, it probably is spelled with a lower case "n".
"Hair nazi" is not a rare term among longhairs to describe people who are overly obsessed about the hair length of others.
Bill
--------------------------------------------
You have my support, Paul. You have a great passion for the right of men and boys in public school to have long hair. You are a great pillar of strength here at MLHH, and I am very grateful for your presence here. You are a real fighter, and very likely to succeed at getting antiquated rules against men and boys having long hair changed.
Scott
Thanks Scott,
Thank you. I can't believe it's 2009 and we have to worry about yet another form of discrimination. Will people ever run out of things to hate?
As for me being a fighter, I wasn't born like that, it was learned. I do like a good scrap. Some just don't understand where the "niche" is for those like me.
Without my kind, the rich would have to fight their own wars. lol.(Sorry, sorry, I couldn't help it.)
Paul
LOL!Hey that says it all Paul.You could also add without guys like us who would build their roads,their bridges,their Porsche,their Mcmansions,their offices as well as their ivory towers!Sorry couldn't help but add to that list my friend:)
Mark
Hey Paul. I like many here have sat back and watched. The one thing about the board here is that there are literally people from all over the world, and thatÂ’s the cool part. What comes with that is also different cultures, different social economic backgrounds, different ages, and even with in our own country there are so many differences its what really makes this all great. I donÂ’t agree with anyone leaving the board simply because they got there feelings hurt or someone does not agree with their position on something or maybe someone was not as politically correct as some think we all need to be. I have traveled a lot and am very fortunate to have done so and have met many many different people from very different backgrounds. And what I have learned is that basically people are pretty great. I donÂ’t have to agree with them, but people are generally pretty good and cool to meet.
I have emailed people here on this board and the ones I have exchanged with have all been great! I guess we all just need to accept others for who they are and let things slide and realize we all donÂ’t think alike. All of us are very passionate about things, long hair is one of them but beyond that, we each have our other things we defend, and also champion. Some here have chosen to let things slide, some have been offended and if someone, no matter who they are feel that they are that offended that they need to leave, then thatÂ’s there choice. But it is a big world and many here are young and life and things out in the big world are not always as we would like. You canÂ’t run from everything, or you accomplish nothing.
Now I am rambling. Bottom line is that we all have opinions, we all express them differently and thatÂ’s ok, we may not agree but with each reply on the board we learn a little more about each other and about the differences we all have. It would be no fun if we were all alike after all.
Paul, I have written you and I know your passion for your beliefs run deep and I know youÂ’re a great person. We should all lighten up a bit, take what we donÂ’t agree with a grain of salt and go on. No one is here purposely hurt any others here, not me , not you and not anyone else either. When I can get on the longhair chat and talk about art, computers, politics, underground houses, the weather, school and other topics in one evening with the same people, itÂ’s a very good thing.
One comment is such a little issue in the big picture after all.
Anyway Paul I hope things are cool, I think its great youÂ’re here as I am with all the others.
Take care
Hey man,
I have been meaning to get back to you on your last e-mail, I went to that site and it was very impressive!
I love the diversity here also. I never got to travel the way I intended when I was younger but there's time to do that.
Some of the responses to this post have been uplifting and I feel I got to show things from my perspective. I needed that.
I don't like it when people say things "in general" and they don't make it clear exactly what or who they are referring to. I also think it's destructive. It's sorta like planting a bomb in the yard. There's no telling who is going to step on it, the person it was meant for or somebody at random.
I not going to wimp out like some(that's an innuendo) because somebody took a dislike to me. I might take a break but they'll have to ban me to make me leave. I've made too many friends here just to take my marbles and go home.
Later man,
Paul
I have to say Paul I think your character is intact. Throughout
these post I see quite a bit of support for you. You aren't the first to chew on a troll and you won't be the last I'm sure. If anything it tells the crew to continue to be vigilant at keeping them off the board which we will do.
Kevin
You know Kevin, the mods could let a troll slip through every once in a while. I think I have developed a taste for their scaly hide. lol.
Paul
I'm sorry you feel like you've had your character attacked. I don't think you have. Just because someone disagrees with what you're saying, this shouldn't be construed as an attack. To be totally honest, your posts sound like you are in total defense mode at all times and not really open to anything that doesn't sound like you want to hear.
And as for the barbarians at the gate, that allusion has nothing to do with long hair or short hair or the Romans or Germans or Celts. It has to do with the threat of the unknown that may or may not be an actual threat because it's not known.
And, by the way, not all the Romans had short hair. At different times, longer hair and beards were in style.
Well Matt, I like it when people are totally honest. It takes a lot of guess work out of the innuendo that I see around here.
The reason I put in that crack about the barbarians is you put so much effort in that post "Jaime! Do you like sarcasm and satire?" I felt I had to refer to it just to let you know I read it. I also know you originally tied it to my post which was taken down, the only thing that was changed on the second post was the phrase. "someone out there who believes that the barbarians are at the gate" was now in bold. So, I think this was directed at me.
Since the Roman civilization lasted in the neighborhood of 900 years, of course hair styles changed but they predominantly wore their hair short hair. I have seen other post right here on this board that upholds that not to mention some of the history books I own. It was a general statement and I put the part about their hair in parenthesis to indicate that it was not what I was pointing out.
What I was saying is the "barbarian" cultures north of Rome were always divided over some comparatively trivial thing. Just like us. In my view we compare more to the "barbarians" than the Roman "establishment".
BTW, The Romans did cut the hair of their captives. I refuse to yield on that point.
You say I am in total defense mode at all times. I disagree, and you can see, that since you stated that in a civil tone, I respond likewise. I do get defensive when attacked, human nature, animal nature... etc. You say you don't see where I was attacked, let me describe it as I see it;
1 "Tom in flyover country" posted "We need anti-discrimination legislation". I agree with him, but like him, I don't know how these thing really work. I can build a house from the ground up but legal stuff is not my strong suit. All of us have different skills.
2 The now believed to be a troll "Chris" responded with a flaming, rhetorical and discriminating response. I was alarmed that this happened and worse, no one put this guy in his place. I choose to come to the defense of the board and it's users by posting my response, "Oh yeah, you are definitely the ''Man''. I called him a Hair Nazi. I feel he deserved it and frankly, him being stupid enough to walk in a say this and get by with it makes us all look weak. I burned him and it felt good.
3 Now James flames me with, "Hair Nazis?". He says to me, "Get over yourself. Posts like these are the reason I've been visiting this site less and less. No one will ever take you seriously if you go parading around, trumpeting such vile slurs, which are no better than the codes against long hair."
As far as I know, James and me have never had any problems. I still don't know why he thinks I should be civil to one who is not.
4 I respond to him in likeness.
Do you really think I should crawl away like some freaking wiener? I was in the right for taking the boards slack in attacking "Chris" the troll and I got jumped by James for it. Unbelievable.
5 Then James Raymond gets mad and leaves. Everybody seems tearful, I look like the bad guy. Why do I think this? His post is called, ''Hair nazi'' (my exit from the board)".
He's actually leaving because I called a hair discriminating ass a Hair Nazi!
Now here's something you don't know, I sent him a friend request on MySpace with a message; "Yeah really! Why don't we just bury the hatchet. Don't leave the board because of me, man!
As of yet, I have not received a response.
Matt, I hope me and you don't have a falling out over this, from everything I've seen of you, you're an intelligent and caring individual and we've had a few good exchanges, but you are one of the users I think see me in a very bad light. I know you and James are friends but he shouldn't have gotten mad over that and he sure shouldn't have left. He's a bright guy but damn, he needs to grow up.
Paul
Paul, you and I need to get on the same page. We are perpetually missing one another's points of contention.
I didn't put the barbarian part in bold because of you. It was my a favorite sentence because it references a line from a poem called "Waiting for the Barbarians" by a Greek guy named C.P Cavafy. If you read the poem, you will know what I meant.
Also, I'm not going to argue with you over Roman history, because we are trying to use it to prove two different things. We both seem to know our history, and I am not asking you to yield anything. What you mention is all correct to my knowledge. Yet in the late empire, the relation/differentiation between Roman and non-Roman became blurred, but I am sure you know this. But remember too that the Germans opened up a can of whupass on the Romans in the Teutoberg Forest in 9 A.D. Just things to think about. I have a hard time using the barbarian analogy to describe us long hair men though. Maybe this is where we are missing each other. To me, it's just not the same scenario.
I can understand why you feel attacked, these things having been brought to my attention. Ad hominem attacks really suck and are like getting kicked in the nuts. But how you respond is important too. When your words and ideas are attacked, you feel attacked, but what's really going on? It's never clear whether someone is attacking your credibility, or just really doesn't agree with your ideas.
It seems that we have very different approaches to many things, but that is OK. I really don't see how we can have a falling out when we have no conflict. Being honest is not a conflict. A good civil argument is not a conflict either. I really like debates and to be challenged on my ideas. I hope you will do that if you see something I post that you disagree with. If I have time, I will argue you down to the best of my rhetorical abilities and enjoy doing it. And you might be surprised to know that I don't see you in a bad light at all. On the contrary, I am happy you've started posting more and have livened up the place a little. I could never really dislike anyone who knows his Golden Bough.
From what I've seen of your work, Paul, I think it's great!
No cause is going to galvanize all who are affected by it. And organizing longhairs is about the toughest organizing job one can have, because:
1. Longhairs are very independent sorts.
2. Men have numerous differing social or psychological reasons to become longhairs, and this means longhairs run in many different social circles.
3. Very few social circles are exclusively or predominantly longhairs.
4. Longhairs have greatly varying feelings about how much having long hair is important to themselves.
5. Being a longhair is not something often passed down in families or other tight social groups, so support is not as likely to come from family and friends.
6. Discrimination at this time is not ubiquitous, it is spotty. Longhairs often have an "out" by just going elsewhere. This means fewer complaining longhairs and less public sympathy. Today is not like the Viet Nam War era, when there was a draft and every longhair in a generation to remain such had to flee to Canada.
About the strongest fervor for your cause you will find here, and as you've seen, it has ranged from enthusiastic to nil here. You will find less frequent support from longhairs drawn from society at large. It's probably a fair statement that all longhairs think it would be nice for no one to be discriminating against longhairs. The decision each man makes is whether the amount of gain is worth the effort to attain it, though, and most will opt to not get involved. Most will just pick up their mane and go play elsewhere.
Nevertheless, we do have some cases where discrimination is tough to avoid. Schoolkids often do not have an easy option to go elsewhere. Employees with pensions about to vest can face changes in the rules. And discrimination is ubiquitous in some fields of employment. Instances where a longhair decides to fight in these cases just don't happen often enough, though, to bring this issue to the forefront. Members of the public really do have "only so much time" to spend worrying about the plight of others, and for most people we would be way down the list.
It is good that some are fighters - leaders - in the furtherance of our cause. If many see a need to coalesce at some point in time, it is to these men that they will turn. We should all applaud you, whether we wish to invest in your efforts at this time or not.
Bill
Hey Bill, it's an honor to see this response from you.
I really knew very few longhairs before I started posting here but I'm starting to see that there is not a more diverse group of people anywhere. I'm not even sure we could be defined as a group. I do know one thing about it though, those who have a problem with our hair certainly define us a a group.
Wearing your hair long is the definitive statement on thinking "outside the box". I agree with you that many of us are "born longhairs" and some of us, unfortunately, wear it as a fad.
I think this feeling or impulse to let it grow is the basis behind those religions that allow or even require members to grow it.
The discouraging thing is the apparent apathy among us. I just don't get it, this is a prejudice that should have been stomped out along with blacks having to ride in the back of the bus.
The school policy that we have to deal with down here was added in the late 80's. To me this means it's gotten worse for us. I think we need some kind of nationwide awareness on this issue now.
Some say that we don't have the numbers to make a change but I say we have support from many we don't know about. When I started talking to other parents about the stupid haircut policy, I didn't just single out the ones with longhair, I talked to anybody who would listen. Some dads with very short hair seemed pretty damn angry about it.
There is a growing trend with kids having longer hair right now. I think maybe it is the right time someone spoke out. My voice may be loud here, too loud for some, but I have neither the means nor the ability to launch such a thing. I just came here with the passion to fire up the ones who do.
Paul
When longhair is "in", i.e., faddish, that does mean there are more of us, and that is when most of the cases have arisen. So we may see more action on the legal front now, since many younger guys are now having long hair. We thus should celebrate those for whom long hair is a fad. Although they are not as fervent on average as individuals, they do swell our numbers.
And as for organizing, remember that herding longhairs is much tougher than herding cats!
Bill
I support you Paul and find your enthusiasm and passion for the cause to be a welcome breath of fresh air.
Thanks Jason, you seems like a really cool guy too.
Paul,
When I made my earlier comment, I had not been aware of this particular case and I was speaking generally. I owe you an apology. I do not feel that what you said was out of line and I did not take any personal offense.
Stormy
It's cool. I have to admit I was confused.
I hope I'm not one who has made you feel unappreciated. I know I've never posted a reply to you but I certainly don't have anything against you. I hope we can become better friends soon.
Later Stormy,
Paul
No, I have never had a problem with you and I consider you a friend. Of course you have not replied to me before - as I said, I make myself scarce around here of late, and rarely post anymore although I usually read the board every day. I have other issues with some aspects of this board that I'd rather not discuss publicly. I am one of those that would rather just disappear than make a big public splash when something bothers me. Anyway, sorry again for opening my trap before I knew all the facts.
Stormy
Hello Paul,
I wouldn't worry too much. For as popular as James & Austin have been on here, they didn't get all that many messages of support.
I'm relatively new here (<2 years) but I've been on lots of messageboards for almost 20 years all the way back to the days of usenet. One thing that I've noticed is that these kind of self-important "I'm LEAVING!" messages are mostly not about the departure, but rather a need to be affirmed by the rest of the membership. It's remarkable how often the person posting the big parting message sticks around to read the reactions. People really serious about leaving tend to just do so, without fanfare.
You have my support...for what that's worth! At least we can keep each other on our toes.
Chris
Actually they got a fair amount of support, in the general sense of hoping they would stay. What I really meant was that they didn't have all that many who agreed with James's contentions about how the board was being dragged down.
Chris
Hey Chris,
After some of our past sparring... your support is worth a lot! Me and you are often on opposing sides of an issue but neither one of us is a wienie. lol.
Yeah, there's a lot of that whinny, foot stomping, "I'll just leave" crap. It reminds me of that Britteny Spears thing with that guy crying, "just leave Britteny alone!"
Oh yeah, great avatar.
Later my worthy adversary,
Paul KMF
I moderate comments for a living. A lot of my decisions are based on whether a comment is angry or whether it's hateful. I thought that the comment to which you responded was a pretty obvious troll post. Your response was indignant, but I didn't think that it was particularly out of line, especially since you're a regular commenter and should get credit for that.
Besides, you're a redhead. Of course you're feisty.
Having said that, there is this thing called Godwin's Law. There are more effective ways to neutralize trolls than calling them Nazis.
Wow, and there you have it, from a professional. Thanks!
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And finally, somebody connects it! lol
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It can't be as fun though!
I'll have to Google that...
Godwin's Law;
"A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfieted the argument."
What?!!! But I really want Hair Nazis to become a popular term for the hair haters. *sigh*
That really sucks dude! I'm sorry but I'm still going to use it as it accurately describes a hair-hating control freak fascist. It's just too perfect a term.
Oh, wait there's more;
"Made obsolete by the Neocons.
Thanks to the Neocons, Godwin's law is now obsolete."
Paul
Paul,
After reading all those posts supporting you I hope any bad feelings about causing someone to leave the board have evaporated. I think you let that troll off easy with your comments and you were absolutely correct to react the way you did. It is difficult to believe that witnessing a flame would be enough to drive someone off the board, and even being flamed shouldn't drive one away either while they still have friends here and enjoy the place.
I also enjoy hunting the odd troll that sneaks through the fences here too :) Take care Paul you are a credit to the MLHH!
Dude! I read what you said to "Mick" on that post, "Photos of my Boyfriend [PIC]" sept. 2008. I loved it!
I recognize a fellow troll slayer when I see him. Next time we find one we can both take a bite. Seriously.
I do still think that James left because of me but I just don't get why he did it. But now after reading these post I feel a lot better. The last thing I want to be blamed for, is this board loosing members. I seek to increase our fold not reduce it. I have been talking to others about the hyperboard, I hope they post soon.
Paul
I have been talking to others about the hyperboard, I hope they post soon.
Hi Paul, invite cards which I can easily design make for an easy way to invite people to post on our board. I have been handing out a card with my image on it for a couple of years now. We would need permission from members here who would allow use of their images. I already have prototypes. (See sample)
I will start a new thread regarding this in the next few days.
Scott
Yeah, I was with Scott once on Haight Street when he started passing out those cards to every longhair we met. I felt like flying under the parked cars like the pigeons do when the hawks fly over.
A lot of longhairs are drawn to engaging other longhairs in conversation, but most longhairs really don't want to talk to strangers about their hair, nor about civil rights issues, unless they are having problems at the time, and most of the time they aren't. If most longhairs wanted to talk about such things, there would be no need for MLHH. We could all just talk to other longhairs in town.
Having such cards can be useful if we meet someone and find out they would be interested, but my experience has been that that is seldom the case.
Bill
I think our high placement on goggle has done wonders to draw people to us. As for existing longhairs I agree with Bill it's an awkward situation to approach a man about his hair let along about mlhh. If it's mentioned in a conversation that comes up if it ever should that's different.
Scott last brought this up a year ago while I was on vacation.and When I go on vacation I don't sit in front of the laptop doing board stuff, vacation is vacation so I didn't know. Luckily I vacationed in San Francisco and stopped by Bills house to visit which is when I found out it was being hashed out on the board.
Stuff like this is discussed among the crew before it goes to the board. I was a little how shall I say, um, a bit disappointed to put it mildly.
So lets exchange e mails from here out.
Kevin
Paul,I support you in your efforts to stamp out longhair discrimination. I not only think it's wrong that our schools can force haircuts on its student, it's unconstitutional! Who appointed them as the "Fashion Police"?
I think both you and James spoke very passionately in "that thread" and things got a bit heated. My usual response to someone like "Chris" is to not give him the satisfaction of a reply. But you did fire a good shot. Good for you. Good for us!
I don't think anyone should leave or feel unwelcome, I just think we shouldn't be firing shots at each other.
Bruce
Hey Bruce,
Those stinking Fashion Police! I know their ranks are filled with hair nazis. Maybe we should call them Fascist Police!
Appreciated,
Paul
I like you Paul!
Regarding trolls, to me, the best way to digest a troll is just to not give them any attention at all.
The message is made clear enough when a "troll" checks the board day after day and finds no "drama" being created. They only see more gorgeous hair updates and tips on long hair care.
Their lone post quietly floats through the digestive tract of the MLHH to be excreted out the other end without the flatulence and indigestion they were hoping for. :-)
Our act of growing our hair the way we wish, being successful, and contributing to our community speaks louder than any words can.
Long lox forever,
- Oren
What we now call "trolls" have been around much longer than the Internet. In ham radio circles they were, and still are, known as "jammers", and it has been common knowledge among hams for the better part of a century that the best way to deal with them is to totally ignore them just like they don't exist. When they keep doing the work to spew stuff out and nothing whatsoever ever comes back, they get the message that others regard them as insignificant nobodies, and they soon go elsewhere.
Bill
Thanks, I've always thought you were pretty cool too Oren!
Most here agree with that method of handling trolls and their kin, but this one already had 3 replys before mine. Although those post made it clear they disagreed with what he said, I thought they were a bit soft on him so I decide to teach a lesson. You just shouldn't wander into a nest of lions and start teasing them.
If the mods tell me not to flame trolls then I'll try to oblige but I ain't making no promises. I still think they let him through to give us a troll snack! And I really don't think he'll be back. ;->
Long lox until I die,
Paul
Hey Paul, I think the board is all the better as a result of your calling out this Chris guy. It's good to get the collective blood flow going now and then...keeps one sharp when one needs to be. Cheers to you!
F.I.R.
Max
Hey Max, glad you're feeling better.
I think it's great to band together against people like him. He said everything we hate to hear, and in CAPS!
The ignore strategy just lets them get by with it. When they see we will stand up to them and demand that they quit this way of thinking then maybe... just maybe, we'll make a dent in their hard heads. ;-)
It's unfortunate that I may have been the cause of two users leaving, I think there's more to that story than we know.
FIR,
Paul
I dare say Kevin that you have a way with words, logic and fairness that is extremely rare these days. This board has NO IDEA what the task of the President is all about, and in my opinion you are doing not only a great job, but as near perfect as possible.
We are beyond fortunate to have you here, and I support you as our president 100%.
Thank you so much for posting what you have.
All the best-
Justin~
As only you would know, the job of MLHH Prez is indeed quite a task. Kevin is doing such a great job, I suggest we give him a lifetime office !
I will be in Astoria tonight..and will be staying for five days.
See 'ya soon
Walter
I haven't noticed the board 'going downhill', in general everyone seems civil and polite, much more than other forums. Longhairs need a voice and heated discussions are healthy as long as they don't get turned into slanging matches. As moderators we have a difficult task of letting people have their say but also knowing when to step in.
As Kevin says we can never please all the people all of the time.
Chris brought up a subject that exists in todays world, there IS longhair descrimination on men, and it produced a much needed debate, its a shame he didn't carry fighting his corner, because these idiots are out there and they certainly need educating.
I appreciate everyones input whether it be PaulKMF or James and Austin, all come from slightly different angles but really we are all (or should be) on the same side at the end of the day.
I hope no-one decides to leave because of this and if you truly believe in what you say then you shouldn't leave. Never surrender!!
~ Dave