new thread
Besides being a Musician. I have been working for the a major Corp in Facilities management for 20 years. When I started I didn't have long hair. I was already a tenured employe when I decided to grow my hair long like it was in my younger days. I have completed management training, been offered 2 management jobs (locations werent right) and have acted in that capacity over the years. A few years ago I moved to a new location long hair beard and all. The managers here know my excellent track record but don't seem to act like it. Whenever they need someone to cover for them they pick some Junior A-- kisser with very little experience. I finally got fed up with what I was feeling was discrimination and emailed my boss. The email is as follows
" "I see ----- ---- was covering for you last week ----. I know that it’s known by you folks that I have completed management training, covered an entire territory with seven acct’s for six months and was offered two management positions. Is my long hair and beard holding me back.I don't mean to be accusitory but I can see no other reason why someone with a fraction of my tenure and experience would be asked to cover your responsibilities before I would." "
Now I know he will probably never answer that question because he could be up for discrimination charges but at least he knows that I am watching him.
observations?
i loled, you seem to think that the world revolves around you
maybe your supervisor was trying to give some much needed experience (you said so yourself) and a longer list of competent responsibility on this kid's shoulder, to help him out before he threw more acclaim onto a man who is already impressing everybody else (when you brag about your promotions and such).
******
Ok Matt it seems this is a very transparent attempt at getting back at me for what you percieve was a negative response to your last post. You don't seem to be operating in the spirit of this board. It isnt about "calling people out" for cutting thier hair of posting negative responses against those that you feel have wronged you. You are obviously young and have alot to learn. Dig yourself and see if you are coming from the right place
Peace and love
Todd
*cough* your ego is showing. =X
******
No ego really It's just something that has been bothering me for a while. I trust most of the people on this board with my feelings. Thats why I shared this
Todd
Alot of points bought up here are interesting, such as the other guy in the workplace having a closer relationship with ur boss then u do, so its only natural for ur boss to delegate responsibility on him.. A kind word should suffice in this case..
and about Matt.. It seems like ur right, This board is about brotherhood, not ganging up on eachother. Matt, dont call others out for their personal decisions because people will defend them and it will escalate, and it will end up in tears before bedtime.
Todd, I think you're speaking of two different Matts. I can't image MattM (Regardless) using that tone in a reply.
Bruce
******
Oh Gosh did I mix up Matt's? So sorry for the confusion if I did that I will write a retraction
Todd
If he is discriminating against you he isn't likely to listen to reason. It could also be that the junior you-know-what kisser has been at that location longer than you have and he is looking at you as an outsider, versus someone he knows and trusts.
5{ criminating against you he isn't likely to listen to reason. It could also be that the junior you-know-what kisser has been at that location longer than you have and he is looking at you as an outsider, versus someone he knows and trusts.
Hi Todd & Electros,
I agree with the comments above, as promotions are a tricky and complicated thing, --- and very emotion-based in its ultimate decision re. who gets promoted and who doesn't... It's not always "fair"; but, often too hard to prove as genuinely "unfair", either.
Several years ago I thought I deserved a promotion to Assistant Kitchen Manager in a place I worked at during the late '80s and early '90s. The Head of the Kitchen Dept. was a very young guy, fresh out of a local cooking school, who tended to always have a nasty, sarcastic, & negative attitude towards his staff. He chose as his assistant a woman who he hated, but had a similar nasty attitude. I decided to just count my blessings and eventually move on, --- that negative atmosphere would never have been comfortable for me, even though I still thought he was overlooking the best candidate in the kitchen (me).
Now, several years later, I'm in-charge of a small kichen at a private nursing home, --- a career switch that returned me to my former line of work that I had been doing back in the '80s and early '90s. Oddly enough, when I first got promoted to this current position, I was unsure at first whether I would be the right choice for the job, due to being absent from the cooking world for many years (I did gardening / landscaping for a living from about '92 - '05). I'm happy to report that, even though I occasionally mess up on the job, my boss still wants me right where I am, --- as well as I have a wonderful staff of a very enjoyable & supportive kitchen crew.
Sometimes the timing just isn't right. Sometimes the people you work with are just a lousy match. And sometimes the Universe is trying to nudge us into a new direction that maybe we just haven't even thought of yet.... Whichever the case, my best to you, Todd! But, I tend to agree with electros' statement that, "if he is discriminating against you he isn't likely to listen to reason.", --- as well as the other comments that electros made.
Take care, --- and good luck!
- Ken in San francisco
Excellent point. I actually thought that might be it
Todd
I think you would have been a lot better off if you had not made it accusatory- you've kind of backed him into a corner and it's highly unlikely he's going to be anything but defensive.
And, of course, you are jumping to a conclusion as well- don't forget that other people (and managers) see us differently than we see ourselves. You might have a weakness that you haven't realized, or discount the importance of. Or maybe the manager simply doesn't think you're interested in doing that. Or whatever. You would have been better off just asking why.
If you really wanted to put a positive spin on it, you could have written it as asking for feedback ("is there anything I need to learn/improve on to fill in for you like Mr. X did...") or simply make it known that you'd like to take on the responsibility ("given my experience X and training Y, I'd like to be considered for Z the next time the opportunity comes up. Can I meet with you sometime to discuss what I need to do to make that happen?")
Gotta use some psychology on them manager types. ;)
Great Comments sectari! very useful stuff.This is why I love this board
Todd
Todd,
Got to say man.. You got balls . I know how ya feel. Been with a family business for the last 15 years and poof... Thats it Im out !
Only thing I can say is, in the corporate field it dont matter how long you been there, you dont look like like one of the boys, yer on the outside lookin in. Well thats in most places there are exceptions
Unless your protected by a union, but its Management and its every man/woman for themselves
Hope you didnt put yourself in jeapordy by sendin that email. Thats what i did to myself
Its does seem like your bein discriminated against.... most definately
Steve
Great response Brother, You have validated the way I am feeling. Thanks for your insight
Todd
Hi Todd,
I hope you don't take this the wrong way because I hear where you are coming from, but before sending e-mails to higher ups, be sure to spell check them and make sure your grammar and punctuation is kosher. This actually does make a huge difference to some bosses. I once had a guy tell me that if an applicant sent in a letter with a comma instead of a colon after the greeting ("Dear Mr. Smith, vs. Dear Mr. Smith:") that he would not even read it.
Office and corporate politics can be very sticky and ridiculous; I worked in it for a decade until I could stand it no longer. Bosses don't like to feel intimidated by their employees either. The tone of your message and its implications suggests that you have a slight grudge against him. He will read that from between the lines. It's best to think through any type of correspondence like this rather than sending it impulsively. Messages and correspondences have a way of resurfacing from time to time. Just my two cents worth, for what it's worth.
MB
before sending e-mails to higher ups, be sure to spell check them and make sure your grammar and punctuation is kosher.
****
Actually my post just contained a quick recreation of the email. My spelling , grammar and punctuation was correct in the original email. I dont believe there is a spell check on this board. You are 100% correct about really thinking it through before firering off an angry email to your boss. It can have a way of biting you in the ass
Todd
No, there's not, but my browser (Safari 3.2.1) has one, and I suspect other recent browsers do, too. Interestingly, "longhaired" is seen by mine as a word, but "shorthaired", is not!
As for feeling discriminated against, my experience has been that, if you feel you are being discriminated against, you are. If the company is large enough that you can navigate around the roadblock, you can do that. If that is not possible (i.e., it's a small company and the roadblock is the owner), then you are best off when the time is right to just leave.
Calling those who discriminate on the carpet for it is rarely successful even if the cause is on the definite no-no list. It is even less successful if the reason is one not on that list, such as long hair.
Leaving under such circumstances can be financially rewarding, because you've likely been underpaid due to that discrimination and not realized it. I had a black coworker confide in me once that he felt discriminated against and he wondered what to do about it. I said FIRST go look for a job elsewhere and see what happens. Two weeks later he came in with a huge grin on his face. He had gotten a job at another firm that was to pay him much more money!
Bill
Thanks Bill a very inciteful post indeed.It's funny I started with short hair in 88 and now I have very long hair. I can definitely see the difference in how I am treated.Unfortunatly I have 21 years with the company, 5 weeks vacation and a ton of benefits. I dont think it would be to my advantage to leave at this point.
I looked at my browser which is a recent IE version and I dont see spell check. maybe I have to look better
Todd
Ah, "golden handcuffs." Hopefully the company is big enough that you can gun for a lateral transfer then, and slide around the bigot.
Good luck!
Bill
i have long hair. well down my shoulders. i have worked for myself for the better part of the past 3 years and my hair has grown much since then. no i attempting to get a job in the workplace and i feel like my long hair may be costing me opportunities.
any suggestions?
1. Go to the interview as neat/dressed up as you're comfortable with. If you go having crossed that line, your discomfort is going to show. Not good.
2. When you run through your past accomplishments, name the people you did the work for, and if the interviewers know any of them, that's the best! Naming names not only gives them a way to check on your work, but it also reminds them that others in their position have had no problem with your look.
Good luck!
Bill
i feel like my long hair may be costing me opportunities.
******
Justin I wish I could say that it doesnt matter. I feel that it holds me back at my job sometimes being that I work in a corporate inviornment. All I can say to you is; if your hair means as much to you as it does to me just slick it down, pull it back and hope for the best.
Todd