new thread
Is it the father's? Both my brother and I inherited our father's brown hair, rather than coal-black that our mother has. And I often see that the children of famous couples where e.g. the father is brown-haired and the mother is blonde, their children are more often brown-haired. And the other way round.
If you remember the part from biology class about Gregor Mendel and his pea plants and the part about the Punnett squares, genes can be recessive and dominant. Depending on what genes the parents carry as well as which ones are expressed, the children end up with whatever of the several combinations are possible. It's a lot more complicated than that I'm sure, but it gives one an idea of what will come from a certain union in terms of crossbreeding. I've heard that blond genes are recessive and dark hair genes are dominant, but even then, depending on the parental genes, the blond genes can be expressed in the offspring. I read somewhere that blond and red hair types are diminishing and will eventually disappear now with greater interaction among various populations in the world. Really the only source of blonds and redheads is Northern Europe, and it's said they developed over long periods of time, independently of course, from others. There is a greater, by far, population of people with dark hair than lighter hair.
MB
"...Gregor Mendel...the Punnett squares...recessive and dominant. Depending on what genes the parents carry as well as which ones are expressed, the children end up with whatever of the several combinations are possible. It's a lot more complicated (GASP!)..."
Are we going to get college credit for following your answer?
Is there as test? HA!
Thanks for Sharing your knowledge.
Have a Happy Easter
Walter
Hmmm.... Could the same be said for the black hair as well? In my opinion, to have really black hair, one should have both parents blackhaired, regardless whether they are African Americans, Native Americans or of Asian origin. If at least one parent has a hair color other than black, the black color will be recessive here as well.
I only used the same analogy as with your example with blond hair, nothing more.
I read somewhere that blond and red hair types are diminishing and will eventually disappear
And they say blonds have more fun. Ha! Soon they'll be gone.
What about us gray hairs? it seems those genes always win in the end.
Kevin
Dr. Matt,
Personally I think this way of thinking is the basis for modern racism. White people think they're going to be "bred out". Whatever.
As a redhead I cringe whenever somebody says "Oh, your kind won't be around to see the next hundred years." Here I should put in Stormy's "trying to give a damn" gif. but somehow I do find it offensive and I get this twinge of "f*** all non-redheads" whenever I hear it.
I've already got a jump on this since I married a woman with darkhair and olive skin due to her Italian grandfather and that is helped along with some Native American ancestry on both our sides. BTW, our kids are all light haired with slightly olive skin. And I'm glad they won't have to put up with being sunburned like I do.
But I contest this view and see it as just another "fear item" sold by those who want to stir up things.
While it's true I cannot back it with any research(as I'm not interested enough to google it) but I know about human nature and the way most of us tend to follow what ever "they" tell us.
I hope you understand what I'm saying here. "They" are not prophets and don't really "know" anything.
What I see as the future of man, as far as appearances go, is a mishmash of skin, eye and hair color. Those "recessive genes" will be in every blood line and you may have any combo imaginable pop up. Uh, sorta like cats.
Have you ever seen a black girl with blue or green eyes? It's pretty cool.
Don't sell the fear man,
Paul
I disagree. if this interracial breeding continues there will be no more blondes, no more redheads, no more diversity. black people with light eyes are very very very uncommon, and those who have them most likely have some european ancestor somewhere. why do people want to mix things up ? I personally wouldn't like my child to have olive skin and dark hair. And why would we want not to have any diversity in this world at all? wouldn't it just be boring if all we'd see would be people with brown/olive skin, black hair and black eyes ?
And I'm not racist, but I do stand for racial segregation, which doesn't make me a racist. Wanting to preserve the traits and characteristics of my race doesn't make me a racist so think about that before calling me a racist.
...I will highlight the best parts.
...but I'd like to highlight the best parts.
I'm not racist, but I do stand for racial segregation,
I agree! Sounds just like something George W Bush would've said. It's a shame, because here in the UK (and I'm sure elsewhere in the world, too), it feeds the equally racist stereotype that all Americans are racists, Christian extremists, etc etc...
Did you know that there are far more similarities between people of different races then there are differences? Most of the perceived differences are on the surface, skin, hair colour. Hell - if you were to remove the skins of different people from perceived different "racial" backgrounds ie white, black, asian etc what lies underneath the skin will be red and hence look very similar to each other. I have know white people with "woolly: Hair with very pale skin, and I have know black people with straight hair. So What?
In the British Isles you have predominantly "white" people who are of Celtic, Pict, Saxon, Roman, Gypsy,Viking heritage, some have darker skin then others who have paler skin. Recent migrants in the last 50 years have been people from the Asia/African continent who now identify with being British.
There was a group of people miscategorised as a race by Nazis and they were Jewish. The Jews aren't a race as such, they are a people's united by a Religion and Heritage. Jews are white, black, and sometimes even Asian.
I don't beleive that there is such a thing as being a 100% pure white/black/asian etc. All humans living today will share common ancestors from way back in time.
I think the fear of segregationists is that they will lose their heritage (ie genetic/cultural), and they forget that there is one TRUE race of people and that is called HUMAN.
A racist to me is someone who thinks their identity group is superior or better to other races, yes - you can take pride in your heritage/race identity without necessarily being a racist but it is a very thin line to cross over to being a racist if you think in "racial terms" like segregation. Segregationists use their subjective judgements to decide what the criteria of being white/black/asian etc is.
Look at dogs/cats that are breed as "pure breeds" - their gene pool is stagnating and they end up problems associated with inter-breeding (extra toes, neurosis, deformities etc) And "Royal" families of Blue blood (aka "stagnant blood") that have genetic diseases such as Blood disorders.
If I were of mixed "racial" ancestory I would celebrate it - and feel a part of every group. James Michener the author was found as a baby and never knew his biological roots so he called himself a "citizen of the world" and only recognised a diverse group of people called Human.
If I met someone who was of a different ethnic/cultural group and had children with them it wouldn't matter to me if their skin was lighter or darker then my own. They would still have my genes in them and I would love accept them as being part of the larger human family.
Duncan
This is true of the Amish (Pennsylvania Dutch). Of German ancestry, there is much interbreeding among their small tight-knit communities. The result is a variety of extremely rare genetic disorders, some so rare that they are exclusive to the Amish.
Adrian,
So you stand for racial segregation but you're not a racist? That has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. lol. How exactly do you separate the two? Are you in denial? Are you lying to yourself or just trying to sell me some impossible situation? We're talking about the old "separate but equal" thing right? Well, news flash, it didn't work.
Just so you know, I am quite proud of my Irish blood as well as my single drop of native American (1/8). I rarely mention that I also have Dutch and German. Does that mean I should try to preserve that particular combination? So I should only date or marry girls with the same mutt blood? I can just imagine how the first date would go.
You know, if I went back far enough I sure I could find some Pict, Saxon, Frank, Viking and maybe a little Hunnish, who knows. Hey, being from the south I may even have some African blood, we've been "mixing things up" for some time now. Behind closed doors of course so shhh, don't tell anyone. And yep, plenty of blonds still here.
As far as sheer numbers, go I'd bet there are more blonds on earth right now than there ever were.
You asked "why do people want to mix things up?" Do you mean, why do they like to "breed" with those who are not their race? lol. I guess race isn't as much a big deal for them as it is for you. You really have to learn to look beyond that.
This kind of thinking comes from jealously and is based in insecurity, get a girlfriend already!
One last thing, you said racist 4 times so I guess I hit a nerve. I never called you a racist, in fact I've never noticed you at all. You just popped up ready to defend "the traits and characteristics of your race". BTW, what is your race? Are you white? I mean I really don't know. All I found out was you have wavy brown hair and admire blonds, that doesn't help clear it up at all. No e-mail, no pics, nothing. If you are so interested in defending who you are then why do you hide in the shadows? Post a pic anonymous one.
Now wasn't that fun,
Paul
Hi Paul, welcome back!
I didn't say I "believed" in any of this whatsoever, and I don't think I tried to establish a certain "belief" either way. It's not even about belief. I'm certainly no geneticist, but I did read about the dominant/recessive hair color issue and took it for what it was. I don't see what it has to do with racism either. While "they," the scientists, who study this stuff aren't prophets either, they certainly know a lot more about it that you or I do. Even if we do believe or not believe what "they" tell us, it makes no difference. As you said, the proof is in the offspring produced - biology, not theology/illusion/belief/hyperreality. It's not really fair to shout "racist" whenever someone, in the course of discussing how biological traits manifest, uses human examples. If cats were the species in question, no one would bristle up if it was said that the eventual mixture of various cat breeds would produce mostly tabbies and the Siamese and Persians would cease to exist in great numbers. Racism has nothing to do with discussing the superficial differences in pigmentation and in appearance among global populations. Racism is discrimination and deleterious action under the aegis of the (false) perception of certain features as superior to others and the resulting subjugation, exploitation, etc. Me, sell fear? Not hardly. I'm certainly not afraid of genetics and no one else need be. I'm not trying to moralize biology or stir fear. What's to fear? We're all mutts already, it just a matter of degree. Nationality is an illusion. Race is a mostly illusory concept. If you want to understand anything, really understand it, you have to discuss it.
MB
Thanks for the welcome back Matt, just taking a break from being on the computer too much. Real world things sometimes take precedence.
Anyway, I didn't call you a racist or try to insinuate you were, you should know better than that. I was just trying to give you the benefit of the point of view from one of those "endangered types". hehe.
I don't like being put into a group that might be considered doomed to extinction. I wanted to make that clear to anyone who takes this belief as granted and your post was a perfect chance for me to express that sentiment. It was directed more at those who truly believe it and not so much at one who just happened to repeat it. I do think this kind of thing should not be spoken of in an idle fashion.
I have heard this before from the science community but I have also heard it from white supremacist groups who want to scare "their people" into some kind of action. This is what I meant by it being the basis for modern racism.
The word race is a bomb word just like the word religion or politics. Anytime you use it and anyway you use it there are people who will get upset.
I do agree, we're all mutts anyway. Purebred dog breeds are created by dog breeders and is not the natural state of the animal. There has never been a "pure race" of any kind of human.
"Nationality is an illusion. Race is a mostly illusory concept". Well stated. My race is the human race.
Paul
I really didn't think you were making such an accusation, and I do appreciate your viewpoint of course. We're all "doomed" to extiction after a fashion -- there will never be another one of any of us, and on a larger scale, humanity today is not what is was several thousand years ago, and the humanity of tomorrow won't be what it is today. Change is the key. "The more things change, the more they stay the same" -- well, not exactly, things really do change and they're never the same. And of course your right; there is a huge difference in discussing how genotypes change over time in a scientific, objective fashion, as opposed to adding in thorough doses of jingoistic nationalism, petty racism, and generally short-sighted "race preservation/race ascendency" rhetoric. And you hit a key point with the reference to fear. Fear does drive such ridiculousness. I just don't associate the two, but as you point out, many do, regretfully. The thing is, racism in part is at least an outgrowth of the failure to be able to discuss race without all the emotions that surface.
I've got a suggestion for you too. I've been reading Slavoj Zizek's Parallax View, and I'm not going to pretend like I understand all of it -- it references a lot of French psychological theory and philosophies I have no grounding in, but Zizek takes just such situations as you earlier mentioned (race, etc.) and inverts them and exposes them in a way we Americans do not usually conceive of. If you like books as you've mentioned, I imagine you might like this one.
Your fellow mutt,
Matt B.
n/t
Hair color and eye color are both polygenic traits. There's more than one factor involved. In both cases, there's a factor that determines color and a factor that determines light/dark. In hair, the color trait is red/not-red and in eyes it's green/not-green. That's why children of parents with different hair/eye colors don't necessarily end up with a color identical to either parent. Scientific opinion on hair and eye color seem to change frequently.
Thanks Doctor Matt and makes interesting reading :-)
I used to be a brunette once and now this white stuff keeps appearing!
(n/t)
To be blonde you have to get blonde hair genes from both your parents, because they are recessive, and if you get a blond gene from only one of your parents then the other one is going to be dominant and you won't be blonde. My maternal grandmother had red hair, don't know what my maternal grandfather had but I guess brown and my mother had brown hair. my father also had brown hair so I also have brown hair, but of course there was a (very small) possibility of my parents having a blonde haired child if my father carried the blonde gene. my mother did have it I think as her mother was reddish blonde but I don't know about my father. So even if I got one blonde gene from my mother, if I didn't get the other from my father then I can't have blonde hair. it's a shame though, i would've loved blonde hair
Oh yes and blonde hair happens only in whites, if one of the parents isn't white then the child will most likely have black hair.
Sorry to burst your bubble but there are black people who do have blonde hair. Here in Australia particularly around the Alice Springs / Central Australia region there are numerous Aboriginal people with very dark skin but straight/wavy blonde hair. They are considered full bloods too. And I think there's an African Tribe that has straight blonde hair too but I don't remember what they are called.
Duncan
You tell him Duncan,
I've seen pics of those Aborigines with blond hair.
I like to add that they had blond hair before Europeans can to Australia.
I sure would like to know more about that blond African tribe. Anyone?
Paul
I can honestly say that you inherit your hair from both parents--both colour and type. I'm the youngest of 6 children and all of us have dark hair like our father and mother. BUT one of us inherited our mom's red hair genes (the hair turns red after being in the sun for a few hours), one of us inherited another gene where her hair turns from to a sandy blonde colour, my brother used to have blondish hairs as a child and now it's all dark. My youngest sister and I inherited our mom's curly-hair type while it seems the rest of my sisters and brother did not--they are still tight curls but loose enough to grow all the way down our backs. The others hair doesn't grow like that.
In my case, I got my mom's hair and my sister has my dad's hair. They would've had to have a third kid to break the tie, and since I pretty much spent my childhood trying to ship my little sister off to some desolate land, I think it's good they stopped at two. ;-)
Mouse
Me and both my brothers have red hair like our mother. Our dad had dark hair.
Paul
Both my parents had brown hair, my mothers was of a darker brown whereas my fathers was of a lighter brown with some blonde streaks in it.
My hair is of a mixed variety of colour - I have predominantly medium brown hair, with some blonde hair thrown in along with some red.
50% of my family on both sides have what could be classified as having blonde hair, however all 4 grandparents all had brown hair of varying degrees. I don't know much about the appearance of my great grandparents.
In the end people of European/British ancestory are pretty much a descended from a diverse gene pool indeed.
Duncan
I have my mother's brown hair.
My brother inherited my father's black hair.
- Oren
Well, both my parents carried the recessive blonde gene, though neither were blonde. Ironically, my ethnic German mom, and her siblings, were all brunettes, yet all had blonde children. My dad had siblings with blonde hair, but siblings with black hair too. His one brother has strong NA features w/black hair, but the youngest brother w/black-hair, looks like what is called Black Irish. Mom's family; mostly German with a bit of Polish. Dad's family is French-Canadian and Iroquois Mohawk Native American. A very distant cousin has researched the family tree extensively, and found that my father's ancesters in France, are from the Gaul region, and a few are Irish; Celtic roots.
Talk about a family melting pot; like Paul, there is both Celtic and Native American genes in the gene pool. I have features of each ethnicity. Blonde hair w/strawberry blonde highlights, grey-rimmed confederate-blue eyes, shovel teeth. The blonde hair is Northern Eauropean, the strawberry highlights Celtic, shovel teeth are NA, the eye color is an unusual shade of blue not typically found among Europeans, it is one found only among decendents of Europeans/NA unions.
When in Europe, I met no-one with my shade, and I always thought my eyes were strange, as a kid. Europeans have sky-blue, baby-blue, lapis-blue, midnight-blue, but you won't find confederate-blue. If you see a NA with Confederate-blue eyes, that's the same color I have, they have European ancestry. Someone on a doll board sent me information regarding this, as she is of mixed NA/North-European ancestry, and has the same unusual rare shade of blue. There are geneticists currently studying this phenomena, wondering what in the NA genes would produce Confederate-blue eyes in a mixed NA/North-European child. Gray eyes produce the least amount of melanin, blue produce more. Other than my one brother, I have never met anyone with this eye-shade. Oddly, all of my cousins on my Dad's side, are brown or hazel-eyed. Dad had hazel eyes. My parents were baffled when my brunette sister was originally born with red hair, only to be replaced by the darker hue with red highlights. And then I came with the strawberry highlights. The mystery being solved by the family tree revealing Celtic roots.
Hair color/texture is a mystery, my parents both had course hair strands, as do all my siblings. So, you could speculate that I didn't get my babyfine strands from them, but yet I did. The babyfine strands is a side effect of a congenital disorder I have, and my parents both carried the defective gene, that I inherited. I have the hair texture of an infant/toddler; wispy silk-like soft strands. My hair was a lighter shade as a child, but grew darker as an adult; still blonde, but more of a dishwater/dirty-blonde, with golden and strawberry blonde highlights. I have multi-tonal hair, the strands vary in color. Some other hyperboard members possess this kind of mixed hair coloring. Since neither parent has/had this hair color, the gene was passed from a prior ancestor, skipping a generation to show up on myself and my youngest brother. Out of 7 children; 2 are blonde, 5 are brunette, 2 are blue-eyed, 4 are brown, 1 hazel: I am the only blue-eyed blonde-haired child.
You have dominant and recessive genes, and then you have mutations; what you get, and how/why, nobody really knows!
Which is why genetic engineers drink heavily!!! [GRIN]