new thread
I am shocked that this happened in the USA in a public school. Some of you were pissed that men were consenting to have their hair cut on the Maury show. What do you think about this?
that is a very disturbing article not so much for the fact that they cut his hair (though i disagree wholeheartedly with it) but the manner in which they did it. those teachers should be fired and if i were those parents i would try to press criminal charges on them for assault or something like that.
Thats really is awful. The fact that the two teachers felt THAT strongly about it is kind of scary.
"And his hair?
"He's letting it grow," Sandler said. "
Good.
Better than that . . . if they're female teachers, hold them down and cut off all their hair!
--Tock
In addittion to what I already stated in "If I was the Judge",
I would have the local news media invited to attend the first initial
shaving of the two women's heads and the reporters would be allowed to ask them questions regarding why they had to have all of their hair cut off.
The message would be that any teacher regardless of sex who would forceably cut a students hair against their will would have to submit to a humiliating thorough head shaving on live tv.
I doubt if any teachers after this would even consider attempting to even mention to any boy in school that he needed a haircut out of fear of their own locks being chopped off.
...that stooping to their level would prove anything beyond the fact that we are as uncivilized as they are.
better to allow the national press to depict them as the scandalous child abusers that they are. if carried to the extremes that the media are capable of, this public humiliation ought to be enough to ensure that these 'teachers' will be unable to secure any career placement in their chosen field after their release from prison.
what could be as demoralizing as sinking 50 g's in a teaching degree then only being able to land a job where you repeat phrases like "would you like fries with that?"
But, as one poster has already pointed out this story hasn't been really picked up by the national news media and if it had been two male teachers and a female student it would be televised night and day.
true enough, but this is in the vein of 'if i were judge'... if the teachers (and school system) were subjected to the prosecution they so richly deserve the media would be all over it.
without questioning the ethics of forcing ones taste in hairstyles on another, there exists the fact that 2 adult teachers committed assault on a minor. if the kid needed to be held down for the haircut to be administered with scissors (deadly weapon)- while according to the article there was no physical injury there was risk of injury- to a MINOR. i'd issue a warrant for the teachers arrest. that would almost certainly make it a story.
The disturbing part of this article for me is the way they're quibbling over details. "Is it an internal matter or not?","What's the school district's hair policy?", and so on. The number one fact here is that this boy was forcibly violated. The only difference between forcing a haircut and committing rape is a degree of severity. He was held down, helpless, by people he should have been able to trust, and physically mutilated. So what if it will grow back. All wounds heal. That doesn't mitigate the wrongdoing.
The Rev
The disturbing part of this article for me is the way they're quibbling over details. "Is it an internal matter or not?","What's the school district's hair policy?", and so on. The number one fact here is that this boy was forcibly violated.
I absolutely agree with that statement!
The only difference between forcing a haircut and committing rape is a degree of severity.
I absolutely disagree with that statement! Equating a haircut (even a forced haircut) to rape is ridiculous. I have never been raped, thank God, and obviously you haven't either. Rape is a very serious crime with long lasting (sometimes liflong) emotional disturbances to the victim. While this was definitely a violation of the boy, to compare it to rape in any way is ludicrous. The boy may be angry, but he will get over it. That is not to say these women should be exonerated, they should be held responsible in some way. What they did is clearly wrong, but I don't think they should be considered hardened criminals.
In what way is it different? Aside, as I stated, from the degree of severity. It is forcible, like rape. It is a violation of the person, like rape. It physically and emotionally damages the victim, like rape. It is about exercising power over another human being, like rape. What's the qualitative difference here, except for the degree of damage done?
A grenade may not be an atom bomb, but it's still a bomb.
The Rev
How is it different? One instance is the extreme disregard for the most private nature and violation of a person's dignity. The other instance is a haircut. While the haircut was obviously a violation, I sincerely doubt that this was the boy's first ever haircut on a virgin head of hair. Even if it was, it's still only hair, it will grow back. Once a "cherry" is broken, it's not possible to get it back.
Also, while the boy was surely angry about the haircut, I find it very difficult to believe there will be long lasting emotional disturbances from this episode.
You're not getting it. Forcibly attacking a person and doing something
against their will, wether it is a haircut or sexual rape should not
be acceptable. Sexual rape is a crime of a greater degree, but are we
debating the difference between manslaughter and murder? BTW do you
think everybody gets a haircut by force? Most people would like to
have some choice in it I would think.
I have to weigh in with the Rev here. I do speak from experience. I have had someone force themselves upon me, and when I was eleven years old my mother hired two stranger men to hold me down and cut all my hair off. I got over the sex act in a week. It took me forty years to get over the mutilation, and that didn't happen until I met other adult longhaired men to whom it had also happened as children, and we comforted each other. For forty years I was scared to death to grow my hair out. For forty years I felt like I was never myself. Every time I walked out of the house people saw I had little hair. I felt incredibly ugly and the shame was intense. As for the sex act, I walked away from it and no one could tell it happened an hour later. I was once attacked by a crazy man who hit my leg with a pipe and this crippled me for a month. It took me longer to mentally get over that than it did the sex act. People could see something was done to me for a longer time. By the time one's long hair grows back out, the shame will have gone on so long that its imprint can be permanent.
And so is mutilating a child. Part of my successfully getting over it was having to write my mother out of my life. I have not seen her in a decade and she will never hear from me so long as I live. That is pretty "lifelong".
More specifically, the presentation of cranio/facial hair is arguably our most powerful symbol of individual and group identity. (Synnott, 1987 at pg. 381) Hair has been significant to human beings at all times and in all cultures as a symbol of strength, sexuality and magic and has been treated as a significant part of the body. (Rabinowitz, 1984 at pg. 270) Hair not only symbolizes the self, but is the self in that it is a part of the human body. (Synnott, 1987 at pg. 404) Accordingly, changes in appearance involving hair can be expected to have a major psycho-social impact on the individual who has undergone the change. (Alley, 1988 at pg. 17)Military regimes across time and cultures have been well known to require the removal of cranio/facial hair for initiates. For example, new members of the French Foreign Legion had their hair cut down to half a millimeter; allegedly to keep them free from lice - in reality to bestow on them a feeling of nothingness. (Rom, 1973 at pg. 22) When after their basic military training they felt integrated into this establishment, they were allowed to grow their hair again. (Rom, 1973 at pg. 22) Upon subduing the Gauls, who esteemed long hair as a distinct honor, Julius Caesar required them to cut their hair as a token of submission. (Kentsmith, 1973 at pg. 573) For the same purpose, the Chinese Manchus imposed the partly shaven head and pigtail upon the Haun men when their dynasty was conquered. (Kentsmith, 1973 at pg. 573) Forced hair removal was effected against collaborators during the German occupation of France. (Synnott, 1987 at pg. 402) Haircutting was a punishment for adultery in India and among the ancient Teutons, and for other crimes in Assyro-Babylon. (Rabinowitz, 1984 at pg. 271)Why do those in authority want men to shave their faces and cut their cranial hair short? It has been posited that the hair of prison inmates and soldiers is kept cut as a reminder that "you are not a free person and cannot do as you please with your own body." (Rabinowitz, 1984)
Action such as this deserves the strongest condemnation. There should be a clear case for invoking criminal proceedings.
If proven to be true, esp given the age of the alleged victim, these two women would be guilty of nothing short of "child abuse".
This amounts to a gross betrayal of trust...A school is no place for people like this.
I wonder how public opinion would judge two men charged with a similar offense?
considering that if the genders were reversed not only would the story have spread well beyond the st. petersburg times but the lawsuits would be such a foregone conclusion that the school would likely settle out of court for an obscene amount of money. ...and just think of the grass roots reaction should such a story hit the national press.
My sentiments exactly!
I never thought about this incident in the case of gender reversal. Surely, there would be criminal proceedings, and the public outcry would warrant severe punishment. The thing is, women and men are not equal. We *may* have been created equally, but societal "norms" play a huge part in every reaction and decision. That's just the way it is.
This doesn't surprise me about the hair-cutting thing, but it did surprise me that it was done by teachers.
they're very proshort hair down here in Tampa Bay in many places
especially in school and the work place.
hell, when I applied for one job at a resort a few years ago my hair was barely over my shirt collar and ears and they told me before I could start work I had to submit to a haircut.
when I lived in Texas years ago I didn't have a problem.
of course maybe things are different there too now.
well, anyway I hope these teachers are prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Dude...
I'm another longhair from the Tampa Bay area... the area isn't really longhair friendly is it??? I rarely see many longhairs around here anymore. Give me a shout if ya want...
A bit of a joke here, but perhaps the reason you had no problem in Texas with your hairstyle the way it was is because you were sporting a mullet. Isn't Texas the capital of the mullet haircut? ;-)
If I were the parent, I'd invite the teachers to my house and give them both a buzz cut! Forget about the court.
T
I'd have those two women submit to a clipper shave every month for two whole years and they would be under court order not to wear any wigs/falls or hats during the duration of their punishment.
the first intial clipping would occur in a public area like a mall on a saturday afternoon and would be performed by a long haired male stylist/barber.
the culprits would have their heads shaved nice and smooth.
In addittion to that I would have them appear at a community meeting and talk about their actions and also attend "hair sensativity" meetings which I would form myself with others and have various long haired professionals of the community attend as well as any female sympathizers and lovers of long hair on men.
If either the teacher or aide failed to appear once a month for the head shave then an addittional year would be tacked on for each haircut missed.
Funny response, but aren't we a civilized nation? The idea of an eye for an eye has been dismissed from Western Civilization for a long time now, thank God. One who is civilized does not do the same wrong thing to the original perpetrators. Things of that nature would only serve the purpose of setting civilization back a few thousand years!
Is that a "punishment haircut," perhaps?
I should have you know that someone was posing as me for the last post. I did NOT write that.
I didn't realize there was someone else going by that name here.
my apologies to you if you think it made you look bad.
That wouldn't of happened to me when I was his age. I am ashamed to say I was to much of a tough guy!