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Recently my 81 year old uncle came down from Colorado for a visit. Me and my family took him out to eat. He's retired air force and has been in every war from WW2 to Vietnam.
Now if you remember, my whole family has longhair. He commented on my 5 year old boy who has never had a haircut. He has these near white blond curls that hang way down on his back. My uncle's comment? His hair was like that at his age, length and all. Wow, didn't expect that. His mom refused to cut it and often passed him off as a girl just to avoid having to explain. This was the 30's.
My brother had told me something else once, in the late 50's a family moved in and started going to their school and the boys all had hair way down on their backs. (The school made them cut it.)
It seems to me that longhair was not so uncommon back then after all. Has anyone else heard of this?
Paul
Perhaps not so uncommon, but apparently even less accepted than these days.
Although I have heard tales of baseball teams in the 20's with every man sporting waist length hair. Wonder if I could find some pics?
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Hey Ivix, here is what you are looking for. They all have gorgeous long flowing hair. The photo is from 1928.
Scott
http://www.houseofdavidmuseum.org/sports/index.htm
Hi Scott,
Thanks for this posting this link as I was amazed reading the story
behind this longhaired baseball team.It's hard to imagine such a team
in that era.Hey,you learn something new every day.Kind of makes you
wonder whats up with society today if back then people got used to something
out of the ordinary.Anyway that was a great read and I thank you for posting it.
Posts like this is what makes the mlhh stand above the rest;) Power to the longhairs!!!!
Mark
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I try to make my posts as useful as possible. If more great posts appear here, our number of posts per day and per month will increase, as well as our number of members. MLHH is a great place to meet people. I have met 9 MLHH members in person so far.
Scott
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I do appreciate it when thoughtful topics are put up on the board and trigger a healthy discussion.This one by Paul is one of those.Certainly I'd like to see more of this in the future as it just makes mlhh a better and more fun place to be.Just this past Friday I had the privilege of meeting for the very first time our own David N. who is an outstanding person and great longhair!I caught him traveling back home from a recent trip that he took.So lets see that now makes 9 mlhhers for me as well.Five I met here on the east coast and the other four out in CA.Hopefully that number will increase:)
Mark
Thanks my friend. I thought it was a good topic too Mark, but now I regret posting it. In fact I'm quickly loosing interest in posting anything here, what ever I do ends up in a s**t slinging contest.
This "Luckskind" comes out of hibernation and post a bunch of useless crap that really irks me.
Paul
Paul,I've seen this happen before where a thread gets started and then there is always someone who takes it in another direction.Since we have no control over people's minds and their computers its just the nature of having an open forum.We could close the board to ONLY registered users to keep out others who aren't as dedicated to mlhh but then it would get rather dull over time and boring too.As long as the poster isn't a troll then it's only one persons interpretation.You gotta lighten up a bit as life is too short as I well know.
Mark
Yes there was a baseball team of religious men who where called THE HOUSE OF DAVID and they were active from 1920's-1950's and onwards.
THE HOUSE OF DAVID was a religious celibate sect who grew their hair and beards out to terminal length. Their were women members too.
There are photos on the web.
Duncan
I'm not sure Ivix. It's starting to seem to me like, although it wasn't "normal" it existed but didn't carry the stigma it does today. That's what I find fascinating.
Paul
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Long hair on males in the 30's was more rare in the US than now for sure. During the Great Depression you would feed your son first. During those dark days, you could probably buy him 2 meals for the cost of 1 haircut. This may have been the reason why your elderly uncle had hair halfway down his back as a child.
In some parts of the world, long hair on males has been common for centuries.
It sure sucks that those people whose sons had hair way down their back were forced to cut it. I am reasonably sure the school did not enforce that rule on girls, even back in the late 50's. I was forced to cut mine in middle school. The school authorities had so much power back then it was impossible to contest it.
They had corporal punishment too. To this day, I admire one kid named Joel who refused corporal punishment. He had a black belt in martial arts and was going to "return fire" if they tried to use corporal punishment on him.
It is hair, and hair does not have a gender. Now if we could only convince the military, and the majority of the conservative folks of that. (We have a few here at MLHH that are conservative, and yet, have long hair.)
Yesterday, I saw a guy wearing a suit and tie and a ponytail. At least the business world is starting to come around.
Scott
That is a great saying there, would you mind if I were to quote you next time someone gives me some negative comment?
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Absolutely, there is no copyright on that phrase. And the statement is very true as well. It is possible someone else said it before I did. I will go look in the archives. I found it. The earliest reference is Dec. 31 2003. Also post 179920. I guess I am not the first one to use it.
Scott
Scott, your positive approach and enthusiasm is always a welcome relief for me.
I agree, things seems to be looking up!
Paul
...be considered the 'the norm.' But that's okay because most longhaired men I've interacted with) tell me they wouldn't want it that way either.
Okay then, and so now a broader (and perhaps more important) question might be: will the LONGHAIRED Adult MALE HOMO-Sapiens ever
be 'accepted 'to the point of 'Live and let live' by at lease 50.5% of human beings (male and FEMALE) living on Planet Earth?
Looking out over a world of nations and national groups that are hostile (to say the least) to anything they consider unacceptable, I must say I for
one, am doubtful.
I think many would agree with me when I say that the very REAL problem of acceptance, tolerance or rejection belongs mostly to the younger
Longhaired guy who is not yet fully established in life and career, and who many be very much involved in and preoccupied with finding a mate,
starting a family, etc.
Today, the older, wiser and more experienced Longhaired Man might be tempted to smile at the young longhair's list of concerns above. But looking
back, we see the Longhairs of the 1970s abandoning their long hair in droves, so that by the 1980s, virtually every man who wanted to 'fit in' the
corporate world so that he could get his 'piece of the money pie.'
My personal opinion is that being a Longhaired Male today will probably always be what it already has been for a very
long time: A PERSONAL JOURNEY.
In closing I wil sum up by saying what I have said time and time again, right here on this (by now) beloved Hyperboard:
Try to base and gauge ALL of your long hair desires, plans and dreams on your own PERSONAL HAPPINESS.
If you are not feeling happy with the longhaired you and with the way you look, feel and with family interracts,
then only YOU can decide if it is really all worth it.
Listen to your heart...
Hi Luckskind,
Great to hear from you and certainly well put.
Hope all is well with you.
Cheers,
John.B
Really John?
I don't see what was "well put". Maybe if he had left out all the CAPS it would have made more sense.
I'd rather go "troll hunting" with you my friend.
Paul
Always good to see healthy debate on the board :-)!
Wow,how long has it been since we've seen your smiling face on the board!Much too long.Hope all is well with you as I'm still enjoying my mlhh gift shoppie items I purchased so long ago:)
As for your comment to this thread,you hit the nail on the head!Simply a brilliant and so true response.For me being one of those "older longhairs",YIKES,I can't think of a time in recent memory that some stranger or even friend said anything close to negative about my hair.I'd hate to go back in time to those high school daze and try and go through the years with this mop!LOL.Probably never hear the end of it.For those young longhairs who stick with it and put up with comments, they are strong willed individuals.Some would just buckle under the dreaded peer pressure and just conform.Anyway its great seeing you post again and don't be a stranger my friend:)Cheers
Mark
Hey Mark,
I'm sorry but his message didn't make any sense to me. I'm thinking you're a little overjoyed he's back.
Explain to me what nail did he hit on the head? Maybe I'm just too stupid to see the "brilliance" of his response. Maybe I misread it, but I found it slightly offensive.
Paul
Hey Paul,
Now this is weird as we both read the same post but got entirely something different out of it.In my opinion I don't think Luckskind was trying to sabotage your thread.When I read your response to him I was a bit shocked about what you thought he was trying to say.As much as I'm all for guys wearing their hair long and the world accepting it I don't think in my lifetime that is going to happen.Just like I don't expect to see world peace in my lifetime.Its just the reality of it but again its just my opinion which could be proved wrong.Luckskind stated an opinion and fact about men's longhair which I agreed with that's all.Paul,I'm with you all the way fighting for the right of guys to wear longhair if they choose but sadly the majority feel they have to conform or just like short hair.I see many women with fairly short haircuts by me as my hair just blows theirs away:)Anyway just stating how I interpreted his post which I thought was true.Please don't be mad at me.
Mark
Mark, you are one of the most sensible people here and it would take a lot (and I mean a lot) to make me mad at you my friend.
I appreciate and respect your opinions and even if we find ourselves on opposite sides of an opinion I would never bare my fangs at you. You are more level headed than I and obviously a bit more patient. I would listen to you.
I just wanted you to explain what he was saying to me because it doesn't seem to apply to the topic I posted. I seems he wanted to demonstrate his differance with my views. He should have posted it somewhere else.
Later friend,
Paul
Ok, what the hell are you talking about?
I posted something here that I thought would be non-confrontational, interesting and thought provoking. I get this in reply?
You come across like your trying to tell me off. What The Hell? And what's the deal with all the CAPS? Are you preaching to me? About what, did you find something offensive in my post?
Honestly, I have NO idea what you're trying to say.
Just a few points I'd like to make;
1 I think it's ridiculous to not want longhair to "the norm" especially from fellow longhair. Maybe this is part of the problem, ever thought of that?
I would not only like to see more males with longhair but I would also like it to be more accepted as well.
2 Your doubtful about what? Will we ever be accepted? Not with that negative attitude.
3 I had no problem with finding a job OR a mate. I get a lot of compliments from females. That is NOT something that happened when I had short hair for the four years I was in the army. As far as employment goes, I wouldn't want a job where they had a discrimination problem with something simple like hair. Believe it or not you don't have to cut your hair to get a job. (Ain't that right Kevin and Matt?)
4 You said, "If you are not feeling happy with the longhaired you and with the way you look, feel and with family interracts, then only YOU can decide if it is really all worth it"
What kind of screwed up message is this, dude? Are you saying 'cut your hair if they don't like it'? That's the OPPOSITE message I try to say. I say stick to it and they will eventually come around.
5 Your beloved hyperboard? Why haven't you posted since Oct. 2008?
I didn't post this to get any crap from anyone. I wanted to hear similar stories, that's all. Thanks for ruining my post.
Paul
Haha! Paul, Paul, Paul. Not to speak on anyone's behalf when they haven't asked me, but Luckskind's approach may be a little more touchy-feely than yours, but the end goals are the same. We not all in-your-face guys here, and I think we can agree that longhair is really the only thing that unites most of us. Luckskind's use of caps is an idiosyncratic thing he has been doing for years and not like shouting at anyone. I know the "netiquette" says that all caps means shouting, but that's not the case with him. He presents a different way of the whole long hair experience, in short. What he is doing to some extent is looking at meta/macro-goals such as acceptance, peace, etc. -- more of a "win the war not the battle" attitude. Not that you're battle by battle, but I think you get the drift.
I don't think your post has been ruined at all; on the contrary, we finally have something to discuss after the lately lull we've had.
One thing irks me: "I wanted to hear similar stories, that's all." You can blast me back if you want, but do you really ever expect to hear back what you want to hear, here or anywhere else, real world included?
Fair enough. No, I don't expect to hear back what I want, real world or not.
I still don't see any thing useful in his reply or if it even was a reply. It's barely coherent and the caps, one of his little quirks or not, makes it hard to read without getting your dander up. Maybe it's time he quit that nasty habit.
Seriously, there's not one thing in that long winded rhetoric that I deemed relevant to my original post. It come across like some kind of grandstanding to announce that his "approach" was vastly superior. Something he should have said later perhaps.
As to the metaphoric battle scene, I don't think he'll be winning anything. I wouldn't follow him to the store, much less to any battle. And his goals are the same? Sorry, I don't agree, he stated that the longhairs he knows do not want longhair to be the norm. Surly you didn't miss that Matt? He wants it to stay exactly like it is because it makes him "special". That, in my humblest of opinions, is the very attitude that creates the hair haters. I have a couple of stories to tell you about that later.
I don't really think that longhair will ever be more prevalent than short hair but I do think that acceptance is not too big a goal. I don't see diminishing the negative ideas about longhaired men too abstract. I achieved it for myself in my own small world and am working on it for my kids, one person at a time. Most who know me irl, tell me I'm pretty cool, for a longhair. (They're words, not mine.)
If we listen to those like him we'd all just give up. He's the most depressing person I've met here. Including James.
Always a pleasure Matt,
Paul
You have raised a very interesting question. OK, if long hair were the norm and commonplace, would it be special? If all guys kept it long, would most of us still want it? The question becomes what long hair symbolizes to the man who grows it. Does it mean rebellion against conservative mores? Does it show that a man owns himself by asserting himself by growing his hair? Does he answer a primal urge? Does he grow it to meet the expectations of others in his peer group? There are many other possibilities I am forgetting. In short, the goal of the man growing his hair determines how he feels about it and how he looks at his situation in relation to his environment.
If most have (not) long hair, it may well indeed make long hair more special. Maybe what is really happening is that longhairs are creating their own problems. If, as you say, some longhairs want to be special, and stand out with their hair as a representation of some "other" than what is the norm, then I guess we're inciting what you call hate. I think this phenomenon, as well as any that involves things like "haters" or any other negativity toward any activity neither good nor bad within itself, but only thought so, is much more complex than we believe.
And from what you've said, I think you're doing a fine job of legitimating long hair just as you are. I think you're pretty cool too.
...that is the name of the battle ain't it! You said it, What a good phrase.
Yes, I do believe longhairs create a lot of they're own problems. I've noticed a certain attitude among some of us which may cause normally rational person to judge all of us unfairly.
The question is, which really come first?
Was the longhair of the 60's and 70's a rebellious statement against something society already hated or was the hatred there first?
It really seems to me, from personal conversations I've had, that there was no anger or disgust toward longhaired men until the 60's. I've heard this from many old timers. I've heard of some who actually cut their hair when the 'hippy' movement started as to not be confused with 'them'.
I know that upon meeting most strangers they give me the 'funny eye' for a few minutes, then after seeing I'm 'ok', they chat me up. Weird.
Paul
Was the longhair of the 60's and 70's a rebellious statement against something society already hated or was the hatred there first?
Probably a chicken-egg question--a feedback loop.
It really seems to me, from personal conversations I've had, that there was no anger or disgust toward longhaired men until the 60's.
I guess. But from what I understand, there were so few of them--if any--that short hair on all males was simply regarded as a "feature of the universe".
...most strangers...give me the 'funny eye' for a few minutes, then after seeing I'm 'ok', they chat me up.
Yep. :-)
Just to clarify: I'd like it to be the norm, but I can understand how a certain defensiveness can creep in, and how a belief that long hair is "special" can be an expression of that. Dee Snider said something like that once eons ago in an interview. Besides, it's also a weird sort of acknowledgement that long hair isn't for everyone.
Beyond that, you can make lots of men do just about anything if you can convince them they need to do it to get either money or sex. It might not really be true, but all you have to do is convince them it is. Lots (most?) of those haircuts in the late '70s weren't entirely voluntary.
My Myspace page
Twisted Sister! Yeah I like 'ol Dee, I never took his music very serious but after seeing him in interviews, he's one of my favorite "stand up" guys. He charges right in where everyone else in chicken sh**. lol.
We know we're all "special", us longhairs, we're much better looking for one thing and immensely smarter (jk) but "acting special" sorta ruins it. Agree?
Guys think about sex and money, that's a good point and very true. From now on one of my quips to "what's with the hair?" is going to be, "You get more cat with longhair, duh!"
Paul
hehe. after all that complaining, your not even talking about your own topic anymore :D
i agree dee proved that longhairs and metalheads both can be smart, someone needs to bring up another court case just so we can refresh that proof again.
We know we're all "special", us longhairs, we're much better looking for one thing and immensely smarter (jk) but "acting special" sorta ruins it. Agree?
LOL! Well, yeah. In fact, you could put "hippies" in there and it'd be just as true.
From now on one of my quips to "what's with the hair?" is going to be, "You get more cat with longhair, duh!"
LOL, but "??" Is this some new slang term I'm too sheltered to know? (Reminds me of what some guy trimming my hair said to me once: "I can guarantee you those girls over there are looking over here wondering what you're gonna do.")
--Panurge (wishing some radio station in ATL would broadcast Dee Snider's House of Hair--if it's still on, that is)
My Myspace page
Haha! No man that's some PaulKMF word switching. What's another name for cat?
Not wanting to offend some old grandma lurking I said "cat" in exchange for another word.
The last time I used a word that somebody didn't like they quit the board with a lot of fanfare.
Paul
Hi there Luckskind,
Great to see you about and hope all is well. Great reply as to longhair being the norm (not so uncommon) at times.
Kevin
.....generally speaking. Whatever the reason it's always cool to see longhair history.
Daniel
n/t
For the most part, hard economic times don't result in long hair on guys AFAIK. At least, not in the US.
My father grew up in the Depression, and at the beginning of the Summer the boys got "baldies", which is just what you think. That saved them from having to get haircuts for a long time I guess. I don't know what they did during the Winter. They may have done something like what we did to save money sometimes:
The (shudder) bowl cut. Yep. Bowl on head. Cut around edge.
One time my mother tried to cut my hair with something that was advertised on TV. It actually pulled hair as it cut. More often, I'd get a trip to the barber shop for a very short cut, followed by allowing it to grow "shaggy", but not long. This was a less extreme example of the baldie economizing technique.
Hi Paul,
That's certainly interesting and perhaps these things go in cycles and the the 50's was the time that the schools had more power and regulations.
We all here of the same thing and it's great that you and your familty stand up to then and I wish more and more people in society did but I think things are changing bit by bit.
Okay some of posters here have their own way of expression things and that's joy of open debate. If you want to take umbridge e-mail me privately :-)
Cheers,
John.B
Yes. My uncle, my dad's brother, born in 1945, never had a haircut until he was about seven. This was right next door to you, in Georgia. We've been here since day one, or the early 1800's at least.
Sorry to reply so late. When I was a toddler in the late 1960s, my Mom kept my hair long. It was quite a while before any cutting. She would even do a little curling in front to keep it out of my eyes.