new thread
Hi Hairy People,
No, this is NOT a thread about male and female anatomy -- I'm sure all of us here already know how to identify male and female "differences" in THAT way (LOL)....
What I'm talking about here is how longhaired men and longhaired women see the world a bit differently -- socially, emotionally, and psychologically.
I mostly am only able to speak from a basic "modern" Western Society point of view (I know very little about Far Eastern or Middle Eastern Societies, other than the fact that originally a lot of the early Chinese immigrants who came to California during the Gold Rush era had arrived from the "old country" wearing their hair in long braids)...
Historically-speaking, it has always been far more socially acceptable for women to have long hair than for men. Other than intermittent periods of time within the last 100-plus years or so, long hair on women has been traditionally socially ENCOURAGED, while long hair on men has usually been traditionally viewed as, "odd!"
Even from a very early age, men are often raised with many limiting thoughts put into their heads about how their hair should be, such as: 1) a man's hair should always be at a "practical" length (in other words, SHORT!); 2) a man should not indulge himself in any self-centered, unnecessary amount of time fussing over their body or physical appearance (and hence, long hair on a man would require him to "fuss" too much); 3) since traditionally within standard heterosexual marriages, the burden of going out and earning enough money for a family fell on the shoulders of the man, rather than the woman, this usually also meant that the woman was free to stay at home to be the one to grow the impractical, luxuriously long & beautiful hair -- but the man had too much responsibility on his shoulders to ever indulge in such a "selfish" pursuit of growing his own hair out....
I hope you all know that I am NOT voicing my own opinions, above; but am simply stating views that are commonly held in Western Society that explain why long hair on men is so frequently discouraged in a man's family and in their community.
Conversely, long hair on a female is usually a non-issue.
Also, I'd like to walk out on the risky plank one step further by also stating that I feel there's a difference between the main reason for a man growing out his hair VS the reasons most women grow their hair long. Although generalizations are generally-speaking, bad; for the sake of making my point, I'm going to be general, anyway (LOL)....
OK, so here's my theory about the difference between male and female long-haired people:
When women decide to grow their hair long, it is usually based on a desire to LOOK a certain way (their thoughts are more based on fashion and/or their personal sense of style for themselves looking as feminine and/or as beautiful as possible).
Conversely, I believe that most men who decide to grow their hair long do so more based on how it makes them FEEL.
There are always exceptions to the above-mentioned generalizations, of course. For example: if a guy is a struggling musician, and his band that he plays in recommends that he grow his hair out in order to better look the part of a cool rocker dude, this sort of guy will temporarily decide to become a longhair. However, since he never really thought of the idea of having long hair himself, if his band were to break up and he then has to go out looking for a day job, most likely he'll gladly cut off his locks in order to go out on job interviews (and maybe even not miss his long hair one bit for ever after).
Some long-haired women I'm sure are also "exceptions to the rule"... I know of one woman friend of mine who has had long hair all of her life, only cutting it as short as shoulder-length just once in her lifetime -- and she told me how she just didn't "feel right" or feel like herself until her hair grow back to its former length again...
Anyway, I've babbled on for long enough! Now it's time for any of you who wish to put in your $.02 to speak up and even tell me I'm crazy, if you so wish (not that I don't already know THAT already - LOL)....
Thanks for reading!
- Ken in San Francisco
I should really elaborate a bit more on the above comment...
By using the word, "FEEL", I mean that in several ways: 1) for many men, becoming a longhair is an issue of pursuing their own sense of self-identity; 2) for other men, it's more of an issue of not feeling "anatomically complete" until they grow their hair out; 3) for still other men, it is BOTH #1 and #2 that they know in their intuitive hearts that they just won't feel quite right until they see and feel long hair on themselves.
There are plenty of other reasons a guy will want to have long hair on his own head -- including the fact that there's nothing wrong at all with simply liking the way long hair looks, including different cool long hair styles, or even just the way it feels warm & comforting on a cold cold night!
OK, now I really will promise to shut up (LOL)!!
- Ken
tell me I'm crazy, if you so wish.
Ok......your crazy!
Your much more fun that way though.
Nothing wrong with being crazy...I live near a looney bin!
Cheers,
John.B
In the South we don't ask if you have crazy people in your family, we just ask which side they come from.
Hey Ken,
Wow, now that's what I call a post!LOL.Really I found it a very interesting read and have to agree with all the points you made.It's really unfortunate that longhair worn by men is considered so taboo by many and generally accepted by so few.Speaking for myself, I knew at an early age that I wanted my hair long and thankfully achieved the dream.That dream continued as I managed to plod through my whole adult life,to date,with not having to cave into a short haircut.It's cool to see all the longhaired guys here on mlhh but where are they in real life!Sure I see a few here and there but certainly a small minority.Unfortunately it will probably always remain that way for the forseeable future but one could always hope that attitudes about guy longhair will improve.Great thread Ken even at that length:)You definately made your point.Cheers
Mark
Ain't that the truth, Mark!
Thanks for your reply -- and I totally admit to being a bit long-winded (hey, you've even talked to me over the phone, so you KNOW how truly long-winded I can be in "real life" - LOL)....
Thanks so much for your reply, Mark!
Long Lox 4ever,
Ken
and we love you for it, man.
Longhaired men and longhaired women for the most part grow their hair out for very different reasons, and they attract quite different people to run with. This makes the two groups culturally very different. One of the effects of this difference has been that there are separate web communities for each. When members of the opposite sex have ventured over to the other community, and not many do, they have often found they are not a good fit. This disconnect plays out in real life also, and the result is similar.
Bill
Interesting comments and insights you just stated above, Bill. For the most part, I tend to agree with you; but then there's always the occasional romance of a longhaired man getting together w/ a longhaired woman... in fact, there's a lot of familiar names of couples I could rattle off that we both know quite well right from MLHH here, -- you even attended a wedding over in the East Bay of one well-known longhaired couple, as I recall!
I don't want to embarrass anyone in this thread by naming specific names here; so, let's just say that "it happens!"
Other than those occasional rare longhaired romances, though, the two big online longhaired communities are indeed quite different from one another, -- as well as, as you say, plays out similarly in real life.
- Ken
I think there's some truth in what you say, but long haired freaky people are long haired regardless of gender, albeit the female of the species often has even longer hair. I think there is a definite split between them and the ultra-conservative wing of the other forum. Paradoxically, though, you can't tell them apart by their hair!
Ken !
What a wonderful post and I have actually pondered the subject myself (but never posted it as folks would think I was crazy ! Ha !)
I agree that women keep long hair either as a tradition or for a certain "feminine" look. Men (some) enjoy the feel of wind in their hair, the feel of hair falling in their face and the somewhat rugged appearance that it gives, particular when facial hair is added.
I've also observed that as women age, after a lifetime of long hair,they enjoy the easier maintenance of shorter style (I will NEVER forgive REBA for cutting hers !); but men tend to go shaggy and bearded working with "what they have" as MPB sets in. One women told me that men's hairstyles are based on availability !! Ha!
Great topic Ken, Thanks
Walter
Well, since most folks here already KNOW that I'm 100% crazy, then I was the best candidate for having the potential tomatoes hurled at me for speaking the crazy-speak! I mean, had you posted a thread like that, everyone would have started to scratch their heads, wondering and worrying over what the heck happened to good-old sane and stable Walter by ever saying such insane things... whereas w/ me, nobody is scratching their hairy heads, or worrying or wondering in the least (LOL)!!
And thanks so much for your reply, Walter -- always great hearing from you!!
- Ken
You may be 100% cwazy Ken - BUT NEVER BORING! Keep up the long-winded-ness!
Best wishes,
Duncan
And I think you, Walter, hit the nail on the head, when it comes to how longhaired men and longhaired women are different. Longhaired women see long hair as making them more solidly feminine, and longhaired men see long hair as making them more solidly masculine. Jokes abound about the wide gulf between the sexes, but there is some truthfulness behind the jokes or they would not be funny, and when it comes to growing long hair, that gulf is widened further, so wide that no substantial "longhaired community" common to both sexes ever forms.
Hi Ken,
great points raised and explained so well. I know others here have said that Men's and Women's hair strands are identical, but looking all around my office, all the Men's hair--compared to the women's, men's seems much more coarse, including mine. I personally find it hard to believe that men's hair and women's is exactly the same consistency and kind. Feel free, anyone to show me otherwise, but there does seem to be quite a different quality to both sex's hair--regardless of product use, or years of having it long.
I am wondering if I am the only one who feels this way?
-Daniel, Bend
Great hearing from you, Daniel! OMG, I wish I was up in Bend right now, even as I type out this reply!!
You bring up a totally different topic for consideration here... WOW, I have no idea if men's hair is physically all that different from women's hair -- could be so; but I think we'd have to have an MD verify and explain how and why that might be so.
I don't go around touching many other people's hair, regardless of whether male or female; but I do know that whenever I have done so, hair texture does seem to vary a lot from individual to individual -- especially I notice a difference in texture based on someone's age.
One of my former co-workers used to regularly bring his 9 year-old daughter to work w/ him, asking her to wait in the break room and do her homework after he picked her up from school. One time this girl actually asked me to make her a bun like mine (LOL, which I found quite funny!); so, I did.... I was AMAZED at how soft & silky her hair was (was very JEALOUS, in fact!). In addition, it was also so full & thick that it was hard to gather up and cooperate into the bun shape.
Conversely, when I was i my 20s and early 30s I worked in a nursing home back then, assisting a lot of elderly patients, including with brushing or combing their hair. OMG, do old people ever have TOTALLY different textured hair!!! Very coarse and dry-feeling, in most cases (as best as I can recall). Maybe a hair stylist could answer this question best of all? I don't know; but at least that ain't a bad idea to ask one, next time I see one.... (ahemmmm... which for me, that's been quite awhile - LOL!!)
Thanks again for the nice reply, Daniel!
- Ken
I understand what you're saying Ken and you have some good points.
There were periods in time where long hair on men was the most accepted. In the Dark ages, Medieval and Renaissance days and as well as the days of Jesus, long hair was the norm and I believe long hair was also normal in the early American colonial days too.
As for guys who are told or who feel they have to grow their hair long to look like a serious rocker dude, I agree and disagree with that. Most rocker/musician guys already have had long hair before they become rockers and they keep their hair long because they are comfortable having it that way and it seems like rockers and others do associate their longhair with their rock music.
But the last few years I've seen more rocker/musician guys with short hair and even shaved heads. So, in my opinion, though longhaired men have been the stereotype of rockers, there are lots of shorthaired guys coming on the scene too, and might even outnumber the longhaired rockers as we know.
I still am pro longhair and I get turned on by longhaired rocker dudes too.
I have longhair and I look like a heavy metal rocker and I am mostly asked if I am in a band. Though I do play guitar, I am no musician, but feel I should have become one to fit the part.
As I say this, I know I may be breaking our longhair commandment, but someday in the future I will be curting my hair short.
Laters,
Eddie
I must be the exception, then--I much prefer the look.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that I'm exactly the kind of person for whom those social restrictions were devised. Here's the way I put it on a post at ALT.GOTHIC recently:
"Since men are trained to keep themselves differently (or hardly at all), it's not as noticeable. Which is kind of the point--the unspoken thought underlying the whole debate is: 'If men are beautiful, there will be more gay sex.' And I think that's true--I'm Exhibit A, because if men made themselves beautiful, *I* would be having more gay sex (or at least *some* gay sex). Some men are attracted to men as they are; I'm attracted to men as they might be. But as I think I've said before, the "gay community" seems to have a really big chip on its shoulder about masculinity that the "lesbian community" doesn't about femininity.
[...]
"Maleness is defined against femaleness to a much greater degree than anyone wants to admit, even though it's manifestly obvious considering the extent to which "girly" is an epithet."