new thread
Back in 1979 (when I used to be a slim & buff-looking stud, still in my mid-20s - LOL), I was going through both a job change and a career change, and ended up taking a 3-day course offered by the San Francisco Employment Development Dept. (AKA "EDD").
The job and career direction that moved me from my native state of Illinois out to California in '77 no longer felt right for me -- so, "all options were on the table" (as far as exploring which new career direction might be best for me).
I learned a lot of helpful things from taking that 3-day EDD course, and definitely felt better prepared afterward to go out and pound the pavement, going on job interviews and considering various new career opportunities. The one thing that I remember, though, which I DIDN'T like hearing, was the EDD teacher's advise re. men with long hair and how they should present themselves when going on a job interview.
"For men with long hair who are having trouble finding a job, it is best to cut your hair short -- then after you get a job, most employers in San Francisco won't have a problem with you growing it out."
Keep in mind that this advise was voiced by this particular teacher back in 1979. But, also keep in mind that San Francisco is generally considered by most people in America to be the country's most "liberal-minded city" in the USA....
As one joke about our city that used to be popular a few years ago goes: "San Francisco is like a cereal bowl -- the people in it are either fruits, nuts, or flakes!"
(And, as much as I hate to admit it myself... there is SOME truth to that joke - LOL!!)
Back to job-hunting advise for longhairs...
Although there are still some people who will tell a long-haired guy the same unpleasant job advise as I just stated above, I firmly believe that there is little reason to have to go the route of cutting one's hair short anymore, in order to succeed at landing a good job. Please consider the following reasons for NOT cutting one's long hair before anybody here goes out on their next job interview:
1) the people doing the hiring and firing nowadays are of the hippie generation (meaning: chances are that even if the person interviewing you does not CURRENTLY have long hair, chances are that when they were younger, they DID -- and so their view of long hair is not as negative as the previous generation's);
2) long hair no longer carries the weight of any major political or "anti-establishment" implication to the same degree as during the '60s and '70s;
3) as long as a longhair presents himself in a very clean & tidy manner, -- and with clothes that are appropriate for both the job, AND for a good first impression -- the smartest and fairest employers do not hold long hair on males against them... only bigoted employers will (and, so, why would you want to work for that jerk, anyway??)
As further emotional reinforcement to discourage anyone here from cutting their hard-earned long hair off before going out job-hunting, let me share an interesting conversation I had with a fellow local longhair, a guy who owns his own construction business, who I met while gardening right across the street from one of his upscale remodeling projects. I had this conversation with him right after I had cut my own hair short, back in Y2k....
He told me that he hadn't cut his hair short in over 25 years (his hair was in a great-looking braid, BTW, reaching almost to his belt) -- and the only time he did cut it short for a job (25 years ago), he not only deeply regretted cutting it; he also told me that the job turned out to be a bad one, which he left very shortly after he started working there... And apparently vowed never to cut his hair short for any job ever again -- and besides, he told me, his wife likes it long!!!!!
So, there you go...
If at all possible, DON'T cut your hair for a job. Tie it back neatly into a nice-looking ponytail or braid, YES, by all means; but if you cut, remind yourself before you do so that it takes YEARS for it to grow it back to long again. This doesn't mean that we should ever judge another longhair if they do decide to cut; just that I feel that the old job-hunting advise which I was told back in 1979 is definitely outdated -- and that the current advise we often tell guys here at MLHH (to hold off on cutting for as long as possible, if ever even giving in to cutting at all....), is not just "new" advise: it is also BETTER!!!
Apologies for my standing on another soapbox again -- I promise I'll get off it now (LOL)!!
- Ken
PS - I might be out looking for another part-time job soon -- so, this is why this topic happens to be on my mind right now.... as well as now you know that I am going to have to also give myself a dose of my own advise-medicine!
I hear that Sunlight soap is a good brand :-)!
But, the REAL question everyone is burning up with curiosity about is... is Sunlight good enough to use under my hairy armpits?
Great advise Ken and I hope everyone here takes note of it.What a shame it would be to cut your mane off to get a job and wind up leaving shortly thereafter should it not work out.The recoup of your longhair,depending on how long it was when cut,just takes too long.Remember its takes years to grow out but only minutes to chop off.I can honestly say I would never cut my hair for anything.It would just depress me too much to be worth it and I would just have this attitude towards the employer who I would feel responsible for my lose.I would take it personal.I guess it boils down to how important longhair is to you as for me its right up there with living.
So Ken,why are looking for a new job?Are you leaving your current one or just taking on a second job?Your such a workaholic!LOL.
Mark
Hi Mark,
I apologize for probably confusing you (as well as any others trying to figure it out), re. my job.... Here's the scoop, in a bit more detail:
I love my cooking job over in the East Bay, and I love the people I work with (as well as the people I work for); but, it is insufficient hours (less than 30 hours per week). Even though I get a very decent hourly rate of pay, and the benefits are OK, I'd like to make more $$ per pay period.
It used to be that combining my part-time cooking job with doing some part-time gardening work worked out well; however, oddly enough, I get most of my gardening calls for help in the wintertime (because that's when people would call me for help with winter-pruning their roses -- something that many excellent gardeners / landscapers find difficult and/or baffling and don't know how to do, but which I'm good at).
I gradually gave up my full-time gardening business back in '05, especially when I was offered my current part-time cooking job (which was my former profession over 15 years earlier).... which I was ready to do, anyway (because I'm getting a bit too old to want to do that much physical work outdoors like that in bad weather, etc.)... I also don't like all the paperwork involved in having one's own business!
But, with the current bad economy, gardening calls requesting for my help are fewer and farther between nowadays (especially AFTER having basically given away most of my former regular gardening clients, to a fellow gardening friend of mine).
To make a long story short....
Now that my injured knee is much better (although the recovery process took a hell of a lot longer than I ever thought possible), I am looking for more work hours -- and prefer finding a 2nd part-time cooking job, rather than counting on the "feast or famine" aspects of hoping for new gardening jobs to increase my income.
"Clear as mud?" (LOL)
Everybody's life is often a bit too complicated to try and explain in a brief sentence or 2 -- so, I probably shouldn't have made that little "PS" comment at the end of that post.
Oh, well. Now that I've probably put BOTH of my feet into my mouth by narrating all of the above, I guess it's truly time for me to shut up now, while I'm still "ahead" -- or, did I just guarantee myself the position of being, uh, "behind?" (LOL)....
- Ken
"...this topic happens to be on my mind right now..."
Well Ken, it is on my mind also...
I have been asked to go to Afghanistan for a 6-12 month project. As I will be liaison with both the U.S. and Afghan military, not to mention working/living in primitive conditions....I wonder if the "issue" will come up....so far, all interactions have been via phone/Internet (so they don't know my dirty little secret! Ha!)....should be interesting to see how this develops. I suspect there will not be a problem...
WOW, Walter, that is quite an impressive offer!! I can only imagine how it must feel -- probably both scary and exciting to think about at the same time!
I doubt that you will have to cut the locks, because I remember there used to be a guy that lived and worked for/with the US government over in Afghanistan, but was not directly under the military. He would occasionally post here at MLHH; but we haven't heard from him in awhile... I wish I could remember his handle name, as we could then look it up in the archives. He had long hair, though, and I remember him telling some fun stories about his co-workers teasing him about it, yet they were all cool with it.
In any case, regardless of the hair issue, it sounds like both a very exciting and interesting opportunity to consider saying yes to the commitment -- or... to run the hell the other way!!!!
My best to you, Walter! And whatever your ultimate decision will be, I have to say that I'll have great admiration for you, either way!!
- Ken
"...probably both scary and exciting to think about at the same time!..."
YUP ! but I lived in Tehran, Iran for two years, so I know a little of what I am getting in to....fascinating and beautiful part of the world.
"...whatever your ultimate decision will be..."
I have agreed to the Project....but the hiring process is long and tedious...we will see. My age may be a showstopper....
Thanks for the compliment and encouragement
Walter
So no hot tubs or saunas then? Poor White Tail.
Then again you did survive Iowa.
Kevin
"...So no hot tubs or saunas then?..."
Not even a "posh" home theater !!! gasp !
Ken, Ken, you have to stop writing such interesting posts. You are keeping me from studying with your great advice and insights.
Great timing though, as I got my work permit a couple of days ago and probably will start looking for some part time work soon. That is, when I can speak at least some basic japanese...well, back to the books...verb conjugations...polite form...aahhh
//Sebasthian
Hey Sebasthian,
I can help you out with your Spanish; but I won't be of any use to you in improving your Japanese, sorry to say (LOL)....
I'll go back to just lurking soon... No, really: I promise! I promise!
- Ken
You lived back in the days of Disco.
The 70's.......The decade taste forgot.
Of course I was extremely young and remember none of it.
You believe that, right?
Kevin
.....yeah, right...
They say if that you remember the '60's, you weren't really there !
Sounds like you missed the next decade also ! Ha !
- Oren
Hey Oren,
Unfortunately, I had just moved from the Chicago area to California two years earlier; so, I missed out on this event -- but hey, I was busy taking Jitterbug dance lessons in San Francisco at the time... Does that count? (LOL)
- Ken
OF COURSE I believe that, Kevin, every word of it (ahemm)!!
Even more embarrassing for me, though, is that I not only remember very clearly when Disco first came out; but when I sheepishly have to admit to the scene I was just starting to get into at that time: I was learning how to Jitterbug!
Talk about a guy who's out-of-touch with the music of the day (LOL)....
- Ken
There's nothing that would ever persuade me to get a short hair cut. I've been hired repeatedly with waist length hair worn loose for white collar jobs. I'm sure it takes longer to find a job with long hair sometimes, but I'm also sure that if you have a good set of marketable skills you can find work even when you can't find an actual job. Frankly, I'm making more money than ever right now. What's that? Can I lend you some money until next payday ...?
Hey Alun,
That's AWESOME to hear, -- and absolutely, YES INDEED, big fat checks are always welcome my direction, ANYtime! ANYday!! And for ANY reason!!!
What's that you said? "Loan?" I don't understand the word... Oh! You mean: "gift!!!" Oh, thank you, thank you SO much, how very kind of you!! Yes yes, put LOTS of zeros next to the other numbers; but, to the left of the decimal point; not to the right, please (LOL)....
- Ken
Great Post Ken! I always enjoy reading your thoughts!
The examples you've given of differing thoughts on the subject of long hair and hiring practices from those time periods , the late '70s and the present, serve to illustrate a paradigm shift that has taken place over the last number of decades.
No longer is it acceptable for an employer to tell you how to present yourself, or more to the point, no longer do we as individuals accept being told how to present ourselves in the workplace. Appearances are secondary to skill-set.
Beginning long before the 1970's, a belief was held that, to enter a workplace, one had to follow the status quo and fall in line. That is to say; "Wear the uniform, do as your told, work efficiently, and we'll let you keep your job".
However, over the past few decades, a change has occurred. People are more educated, more highly trained, and the workforce is much more savvy, not to mention the competitive nature of most big business these days. Potential employees now market themselves to employers, not the other way around.
Thus, having long hair doesn't really fit into the equation when a potential employer is reviewing your resume. If you've got the goods, you've got the goods!
Perhaps, from time to time, employers consider the hair of a potential candidate when filling a position, but I find it hard to believe that in 2010, long hair will trump solid experience during the hiring process.
All you longhairs looking for jobs: Sell yourselves! You know you can! You wouldn't be applying for a position that you weren't qualified for, right?! So tell them exactly why YOU'RE the right guy to fill the spot. Let them know, in not so many words, that they would be foolish to hire anyone but you! Convince them of this, and your long hair will be a non-issue.
Good luck on the job hunt!
Another good read Ken! No need to apologize for the soapbox, intelligent discussion is what the doctor ordered!
I'm not sure what I would have to do if I had to go back to security installations. 15 years ago, security companies were kind of sticks in the mud types. I've been working for myself since and I'm a pretty good boss. I guess if I had to, I'd apply for a position in a hospital, they're a little more laid back. I wouldn't just automatically just hack my hair off.
Bruce
btw, I do remember the 70's! We did survive!!