new thread
But I figured I hadn't posted pics since I got my hair layered (and got a fringe cut in) and dyed the whole mess black. I think it looks pretty good.
Ive already told myself to be a little more androgynous when my hair gets long again. Women do n otice androgyny. It can make you stand out even more than most longhairs.
From the FAQ:
17. Are women and transgenders welcome?
Our site is intended for men who want to look like men and consider long hair to be part of that look. Unlike with women and transgenders, having long hair puts a man in a small minority, and our site's purpose is to support that minority. Women and transgenders are welcome if their purpose is to support men who have long hair. There is infinite room on the Internet, and others are free to set up their own sites or visit existing sites if our site's focus does not meet their needs.
Ditto! I agree! There are many other sites for long hair for women! Try the long hair community. It is mostly woman.
It's my understanding the photo in this thread is of a man trying to look like a woman. That's against the rules.
For the love of god how am I trying to look like a woman? I'm wearing a button down shirt over a "beater" tank top. I'm wearing nothing even remotely feminine... I happen to have androgynous facial features. So sue me.
I'm not a woman, nor am I attempting to look like one. Seriously, what, pray tell, makes me look like a woman to you people? I happen to have fine facial features, short of surgery I'm not exactly sure what you people want me to do to look more masculine (and no I'm not growing a beard, the girlfriend'd kill me)
Mikael, I'm sorry for the rude reception you've gotten here. I think the problem stemmed from the very low contrast photo you posted. Quite honestly I couldn't tell whether you were male or female nor exactly what you were wearing, though I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt. My suggestion, not only to you but everyone that posts a photo, is to please try to make sure the photo is clearly focused and lit well enough that we can discern the details. Perhaps this will prevent such an issue from reoccurring.
As for your hair, what I can see of it looks good. :-)
--Dale
Dale's Facebook Page
Good point, thank you. I should probably use my computer's webcam less and my nice camera more.
Hi Mikael,
Let me weigh in on this topic of interest: Mikael, I think your natural look is really appealing. Truth is your androgynous natural look goes really well with your long hair. Very male looks and long hair can often go well together too. Mikael, your looks are natural too based on what you tell us. Frankly, I don't understand why anyone here on MLHH should have a problem with your appearance. Really this group (MLHH) exists to support people who happen to be male, having or wanting long hair despite whatever his natural physical appearance exists as (so who cares if you have a natural androgynous look about you?).
As an example, I could say I don't care for certain people due to their look because of being part of a certain race, ethnicity, age or weight but this should not be the topic that is debated here because it is not relevant to our overall purpose which is catering to the male sex that chooses long hair as being part of their look.
What I think is no good is the promotion of homosexual behavior here (which most people chewed me out on over MLHH months ago). Homosexual behavior should have nothing to do with the topic of male long hair as that is related to a lifestyle and sexuality rather than a look. Get my drift?
For the record I am a straight male with traditional values. I am a conservative leaning libertarian like Ron Paul. With the gay "marriage" topic I think Ron Paul has the right idea. Let the gays marry if they want in their own functions but don't have government sanction it as it is unfair to those who believe government has a moral duty to be under G-d's authority.
Sincerely,
J.M.M.
You should be ashamed of yourself for your hateful comments about gay marriage. You're obviously one of those people who uses religion as a weapon of hate.
Separation of church and state is one of the most important American concepts, which brought millions of immigrants to it's shores.
God is love, not judgement. Learn it or lose.
Joey
Joey
What does that have to do with literally anything that has been said?
Gays were never discriminated in the post you have quoted. It has only been stated that endorsement of the lifestyle is discouraged here; supportive, opposing or otherwise, views on sexuality conflict with the nature of this board in that it brings a very controversial and sometimes disturbing topic to one that should only help people.
According to your logic it's racist against Swedish people to mention to one of your buddies that you like brunettes more than blondes. Think about exactly how little sense that makes.
In any case, even after reading this entire thread I still find many of the claims here dubious at best. I'm looking at Mikael's back-shot now and don't really know what to make of it...because I think I see a set of very pronounced hips; hips that are designed with extra width to endure childbirth. Maybe it's the oddly curvy pose in which the photo has been taken but I would highly doubt this person is a man at all based solely on his bone structure, the blatantly feminine style of dress in the original picture notwithstanding.
Pug - Why don't you ask J.M.M. the same question? What do his political, and anti-gay comments have to do with long hair? I see his statement as an attempt to silence gay people from being open about who they are here on MLLH.
My reply post to J.M.M., and my more recent post to J.M.M about separation of church and state, are in response to what he wrote as a reply to "It's been a while" by Mikael. My words to J.M.M. landed in the wrong area of the previous post which I had responded to, so it looked confusing.
I will put it here again for you so that you can read it more carefully :
J.M.M. wrote :
: What I think is no good is the promotion of homosexual behavior here (which most people chewed me out on over MLHH months ago). Homosexual behavior should have nothing to do with the topic of male long hair as that is related to a lifestyle and sexuality rather than a look. Get my drift?
: Sincerely, : J.M.M.
Pug, you are wrong by saying that gays are not being discriminated against in the words above. He refers to gay marriage as "unfair to those who believe government has a moral duty to be under G-d's authority." J.M.M. is implying that God thinks being gay is wrong, and gays being married is wrong, as well as suggesting that religious groups should have a say in government.
In J.M.M.'s post he says - "Homosexual behavior should have nothing to do with the topic of male long hair as that is related to a lifestyle and sexuality rather than a look."
However, it is J.M.M. who brought it up here, obviously to cause trouble, and as an excuse to endorse his presidential choice, Ron Paul, who has made very hateful public statements about gays.
The word "lifestyle" is offensive in the context above, a word often used by Christian extremists in reference to gays. Being gay is not a "lifestyle", it's a personal and sexual identity, which most people are aware of from early childhood.
He's also implying that gays aren't welcome here, I've been reading this board frequently since June, 8 months ago, and have never seen anyone here "promoting homosexual behavior". He's obviously referring to anyone who mentions that they are gay on MLLH. He's clearly saying that he wants gays to stay in the closet.
MLLH members include little comments about their own lives and families all the time here, unless there's a double standard here, than why can't gay MLLH members and visitors do the same?
J.M.M. also suggests in his statement that government should have a moral duty to god - which is against the United States First Amendment, the laws which ensure separation of church and state. It's also an obvious attempt at an insult, implying homosexuality is immoral.
Pug, your comment about Swedish blondes made no sense to me. I'm talking about human rights and free speech, an off topic thing here on MLLH, that I felt compelled to defend after reading J.M.M.'s post. In your "Swedish" example, nobody's human rights, and freedoms are being violated or compromised. What you describe there is the personal hair color preference of a few people, or at worst, a personal prejudice amongst a few individuals, which is not the same as government sanctioned discrimination against an individual group. There's a very big difference.
As I have said before on this board, I'm not usually involved with political threads of flame posters, I'm here to enjoy and celebrate long hair, however, this particular post from J.M.M was so offensive, I felt I had to make a response, and I know that I did the right thing in doing so.
Who exactly is J.M.M to suggest restricting the content of other posters messages here, when he himself is posting off topic comments related to politics, the presidential campaign, governments "moral" responsibility, and gay marriage?
Joey
And they're all GAY!
But who the hell cares.
Bill
...um, I'm a guy. I'm wearing men's clothing, no makeup, no nothing. I can't really help it if I'm androgynous.
Some of us were here when the transgender rule (rule #17) and the hair cutting video rule (rule #9) were made. They are rooted in the two most vile slurs thrown at longhairs, "You look like a girl" and "Get a haircut". It was unanimously felt that having people celebrate images that reminded people of those slurs were inappropriate in a support forum for longhaired men.
Young guys who've been harassed repeatedly at school that they look like a girl need to come here and find a place where we emphatically say no, long hair is a masculine look. It was decided that we could not support those men and also men who thought long hair made them look girly, and we chose to support the men who wanted to look like men. That is the reason for the rule.
As for saying one is "androgynous", they all say that. It doesn't help, since that means they are half transgender.
There are probably support groups for people who have that problem, and if not, people with it can always start one. The Internet is not full yet. All the rules here say is, "This is not the place." And the reason is that we have a good reason to not advocate that view.
Those two rules have been here a long time. Anyone who gets involved here knows of them before doing so.
Bill
I understand what you are saying Bill. I didn't realize that reasoning nor that it had been agreed that the MLHH would be just for masculine guys (or at least masculine looking).
I shall the MLHH differently from now on. Thank's for enlightening me.
I find the logic here a little uncomfortable, because again I get harassed constantly for "looking like a girl" I in no way want or desire to "look like a girl" as I very much want to look like a guy, in part due to my hair, and in part due to physical features I have no control over... and so if that rule is truly in place to protect long haired guys who feel themselves to be masculine men (like me, I'm very much a typical guy in my interests and hobbies) from the accusation that they "look like a girl" applying that accusation to me, is a pretty backwards way of going about things.
Is it the fact that I have layers (which I have to increase the drying speed of my rather thick hair)? I'm really not sure what it is about me that you guys perceive as feminine, I am not feminine, I am masculine. I dress in a masculine manner, I speak in a masculine manner, I act, look, and generally present myself in a masculine manner. If any of you have any suggestions as to how I might appear LESS feminine they would be much appreciated.
Masculinity is a state of mind. If you think like a male and identify as one I don't think it makes much difference if your features are delicate or not. There are some males like Perez Hilton who wear short hair, and a suit but still behave like girls. For the record I don't mind guys who do look a bit androgynous in appearance, it doesn't bother me at all it's all in the attitude.
cheers,
Duncan
Get in the habit of lifting heavy things on a regular basis(weights, odd objects, your own body, etc.) and eat lots of good food (meat, eggs, fish, poultry, vegetables, fruits, nuts, organic dairy). In a few months, you'll start looking more masculine. In a year, you'll be amazed at the transformation.
P.S.--If you really don't want to grow facial hair, then don't (but understand that it would significantly reduce your being mistaken for a girl). However, if you lack a beard simply because your girlfriend doesn't prefer that you have one, how does that differ from getting a haircut at the urging of society at large?
Joao, you're a great example of someone who does not reek of testosterone here and who has been 100% accepted for the way you are. The overall issue is how one carries himself. Whether one looks male or female is a matter of how the whole package looks. Only two body parts scream loudly on this issue, and one of them you can't show off here (nor lots of places). The other one is grown on the face, but a lot of men look like men without that, although it is a very strong and thus very useful card to play for a man who is having trouble. Most of us can look at a crowd a block away and tell very well the sex of most of the people we see, even though they are too far away to see their faces. Lots of Asians and Latinos in my town can't grow beards, and we can tell their men and women apart without effort. Looking the sex you are is also something that to most people comes naturally without effort.
Mikael, you have a problem that the crowd here is not set up to help you solve. We don't have experience with that. Dealing with that is "off topic" here, and you won't get good advice here because few have any knowledge about dealing with it. I can say though, that the picture you posted this morning, shown above, is not one that a man would typically post. If you can't see that, if you can't go into a bathroom and never get hassled, and if you don't want to be seen as feminine, you need some help in butching up your look. You seem to be blind to what everyone else is seeing, and you need help opening your eyes.
Be aware that most transgender sites are about making yourself look more feminine, and since you don't want that, they may not be able to help you any more than we can. You surely aren't the only one on this planet with your problem, though, and you surely will find others.
Godspeed my friend,
Bill
My thoughts are who cares what most people think or the things they say to you. I've learned in life most people are not brilliant or thoughtful and are not going to see things my way. A lot of the reason why this is the case is due to cultural influence through examples people received early on in life through parents, peers, the media, school and more. Also dumb people usually wind up having dumb offspring. Like the old saying goes "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree (which is in fact true)". What's really important is do you feel happy with yourself? I can see some people are accepting of you, like the way you look and who you are. Of course you can never satisfy everybody but why even try? What are you trying to prove? Be happy with who you are as this was G-d's will.
J.M.M.
In that pic I see a person whose shoulders are much too broad for an average female. Or maybe the pic is deceptive or I just know skinny girls. :)
I get the impression that you rather enjoy the androgynous look, Mikael. Nothing wrong with that; so do I. You could easily detroy much of the androgyny by growing a beard but you have deliberately decided not to (regardless of your girlfriend) because you prefer the look.
But accept that no matter how we look there will always be something about us that other people will pick on or harass us about. You simply cannot please all of the people all of the time - so don't even bother to try.
One of the things I like to think my own long hair expresses about me is my freedom of thought - and that includes a refusal to cram people into pigeon-holes because of preconceptions about how they should look or act according to their gender.
Ultimately, we are simply who we are. As long as it harms no one else, just be true to yourself.
Damon
---------------------------------------
I have given up on the topic Mikael. It seems you have a "problem" -_-' Just do your own thing and you'll be fine.
Hi Mikael,
I haven't read this whole thread - don't intend to, either... usually don't like getting caught up in squabbles :p . But if it makes you feel any better, while some guys push towards being more masculine and all, in some ways I wish I looked a little more "Androgynous"... or the likes like that.
I know, sounds kind of weird, but I do have a reason... it isn't because I lean in the feminine direction - I'm about as "man" as you can get ;) ... the reason being in all the years before I began growing out my hair, the reason used second-most against me, keeping me from growing out my hair was that I didn't have the right face for it. I mean, look at my avatar - I totally don't have the face for it! The half Czech/Bohemian and the other half Scottish/Irish/Native American that I am... square jaw, high forehead, rigid features - totally doesn't fit in with long hair :( . Now if the world was perfect, I would have a fine sloping jaw to match the longer hair coming down (what you have), a low forehead so that my forehead doesn't look like a billboard when in a ponytail, etc. (you get the idea ^_~ )...
So what I'm trying to say is consider yourself lucky that your hair fits you perfectly (or that you fit your hair perfectly) and to that I have to give you a thumbs up - don't second guess yourself. And as long as you feel like a man, act like a man, do what men do, etc., then you are a man. Why try to be more masculine? You'll just be someone you're not if you're forcefully not yourself (does that make any sense @_@ ???).
Oh well, that's all I have to say about that ~_~ . As for the other stuff, I'll leave it to the rest of the guys to argue it out amongst themselves :p . Good luck :) !
Sincerely and peace,
yoshiki
Actually, judging by your avatar, you have a fairly broad face - so long hair is perfect for you. The verticality of the long hair increases the apparent length of your face.
Just my opinion. ;)
Oh, and I totally agree with everything you've said about androgyny. Well put!
Damon
----------------------------------------
Psssshh, don't be silly, you look fine :-)
...here's the problem with this post, I don't think long hair makes me look girly, nor am I in any way, shape, or form attempting to look girly. I happen to have facial features that are somewhat androgynous. I'm looking as manly as I personally am capable of looking.
Now, if you have such an issue with the "you look like a girl" slur, then for the love of god don't use it on me, just because I happen to be a man who's facial features and body type (two things I'm not capable of changing) happen to be less "masculine" than some bizarre pre-conceived notion of what a masculine face looks like.
The point I am attempting to make here, is that I am not less masculine than anyone else because of certain flukes of skeletal construction that to certain boorish people make me look "feminine". I cannot change my facial features. Frankly, I'm offended that a community that's supposedly there to support long haired men against the overwhelming tide of comments like "you look like a girl" uses that exact comment on a guy who's bone structure is maybe a TINY bit more delicate than average.
I do not have long hair to be feminine, I am not attempting to be girly. I cannot help it if for some reason you find my distinctly male, distinctly unadorned body to be somehow too "feminine"
You are quite capable of forging a more masculine body than the one you are currently walking around in. Whether or not you want to is another question, to which there is no "right" or "wrong" answer, but to say that you can't is a cop-out.
--Val
I don't build muscle easily, I do lift weights, but my body is firmly in the ectomorph camp, admittedly I've been a little lazy for the past few months (moving)
As one of the "boorish" people, I would assert that facial features alone don't alone create a feminine look. Consider the male elves as portrayed in the Lord of the Rings movies. They are without facial hair, have slim bodies, have very long hair often intricately braided and I've never felt confused at which sex they are.
And for the record, I am not "half transgender" I' was not suggesting I am in any way androgynous in temperament, I'm saying that i can't help how my face looks, and I find this all very insulting because I can't bloody help how my face looks.
I didn't realise androgyny was a problem and that too coming from an advocate for a group of people in a minority!
I would not be too far out if I guessed, more than half the listed users are not fully aware of the rules of the board and probably have only had a cursory glance at the shortened list. And I am certain that more than half of the remaining 58 or so would not really mind postings like Mikael's.
Being an adrogynous man myself, I think this hasn'y been the politest way to reply to this person.
First off, if she's a women, there are also other female posters on this board.
If he's a man who looks like a women, he's still a man, and is part of an even smaller minority than regular long haired men.
I think that closing the board to exclusively masculine male long haired people only makes it less rich and diverse.
I couldn't help but feel a little offended by this. Most of the people here know what it is to be put aside socially because of our hair, so why should we put people in here aside because they are androgynous, or whatever.
Just my opinion.
João David,
I cut and pasted from the FAQ. Do you feel like I misinterpreted it? "for men who want to look like men">
I don't think you misinterpreted it Jason, I just don't agree with it. I think it's a policy that is much alike the ones schools use, demanding specific looks for each gender. It's really archaich and discriminatory.
It's not on my hands though.
João,
I must add that there is a wide range of interpretation on this. Long hair on men can look feminine from certain angles. Almost all of us have gotten mistaken for a female. There's nothing wrong with that of course! In fact, it means you've arrived in a way and have great hair.
Some styles we wear could be perceived as feminine. I wear halfups out in public. I've even used clips like in this photo:
This is very different from cross-dressing with a clear intent to cause gender confusion. I believe that is what that rule was put in place to prohibit. There are men who are slim and have physiques that might be considered less "masculine" but that is not who the rule is referring to. You certainly have never posted a photo that would even come close to violating the spirit of that rule.
It was not my intent to be rude but rather point out what, at least as it's currently constituted, is not permitted here.
I see where you're coming from, Jason. But it's a thin line. I am very happy being male and have no wish to be female - but I do like the androgynous look. I'm skinny, clean-shaven and occasionally wear eyeliner. As I say, it can be a thin line.
Damon
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Exactly. This is the "Men's Long Hair Hyperboard". The criterion is surely that we are men with long hair. Nothing else should matter.
Demanding that members conform to other rules about their appearance is akin to the very kind of discrimination that many of us abhor.
Damon
------------------------------------
Thank you, admittedly I am at times more androgynous (big fan of glam metal, so I've been known to rock eyeliner and leopard print pants) and I'm perfectly happy not to do that here, but what I find particularly irritating about this particular invocation of the androgyny rule is that I'm not even doing anything outside of utterly typical masculine gender norms there, no makeup, men's button down shirt and a men's tank top. I get told I look like a woman quite enough in the outside world and I certainly do not need to be informed my natural appearance is unacceptably unmasculine for the 10 millionth time in my life. I cannot tell you how often I get told I'm in the "wrong bathroom" (an assumption they correct when I open my mouth) but quite annoying and emasculating none the less.
Mikael
You are entitled to your style, and I totally agree that you look merely androgynous in your first picture: and androgynous is, between sexes, can look like a men or a women.
I personally love androgyny so kudos to you. It's a shame that in a board that's meant to suport people who are discriminated everyday there are still discriminatory rules.
Your hair looks great! =)
Masculine, shmasculine, as long as you are happy with your appearance!
I just reread your replies and I want to add that you were straight and polite while quoting the FAQ (although I don't see why you would in the first place, though it feels like androgynous or transexual presence in the board could bother you). To reinforce that for this person to post is against the rules though, that sounded rude to me, and I felt for the person. I am not trying to defend anyone or to have an argument with you or anyone, but I think it doesn't make sense to shun people like this.
Next thing you know the board will send every gay posted to the gay long haired board. Could the policy be heading towards only keeping the "socially acceptable" long haired men? Go figure -_-
Again Jason, nothing against you. I just felt really bothered that this person recieved zero positive feedback although he/she was nice and polite.
João,
A fairly large percentage of our members here at MLHH are gay. Some also post at gaylonghair and others don't. Being gay has never been an issue here nor will it. It's my understanding that there is little correlation between cross-dressing and being gay so I feel like they are two totally separate issues.
I don't know whether cross-dressing posts are allowed at the gay board. I merely quoted the rule at MLHH which in this case was violated.
Jason
There are indeed a lot of gay members on ths board and you are totally right about it not being related to cross dressing by any means. I actually have a master's degree on fashion and sex, sexuallity and gender, and that's why defend this so strongly. I don't suport a genderless comunity because society is obviously formed with the principle that there are two genders, I simply defend, because I know, that there are multiple ways people feel about gender, which is an individual factor alone.
Speaking for myself, I always loved women assigned objects, clothes, behaviors, much more than masculine stff. Still never in my life I wanted to be a women. But this is another topic.
I wasn't particularly offended by what you said, it's just that rule you quoted and the way it was being used. I'm sorry if I was too abrupt stating my opinion, I was just shocked by the discriminary tone. Call it like it is =/
(I'm sorry for the long messages. After 2 years of studying around the topic of gender I could type here for hours o.O )
I was just surprised you linked this in some way to being gay or that gay members would be in any way persecuted.
The last time the gay topic came up, I wrote a long defense of what I feel regarding homosexuality - that it's a born-in trait and not to be discriminated against.
You seriously have probably the best hair here and I've always enjoyed your updates. I don't wish to be at any kind on enmity with you and ask that we can agree to disagree about the issue of dressing and/or appearing feminine.
The only way I linked this issue to being gay was regarding te discriminatory nature of this rule.
I repeat that I have nothing against you Jason, and I don't want to be at an enmity with you either. This issue doesn't change anything for me to be honest. I was simply defending what I belive in.
Therefore, of course we can disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Anyways, it seems things are settled now. I'm not agry or anything, and I'm sorry if I came across as being agressive.
Everything's cool with me ;)
I am of the opinion that as a minority of group long haired men we do face discrimination from the mainstream in one degree or other. We should fully support one another. I have no problem with either Joao or Mikhail whether intentional or not in having an androgynous appearance. The only members here I won't support are narrow-minded religious pharisees or hate mongers. We need to support not only long hair on men but the right to be different.
Very few guys have ever been mistaken for women anyway so I think it's a big non-issue. It isn't a problem, if it was the person could probably grow a beard if they are generally bothered by it. Some members here obviously like the look and it's not like this board is overwhelmed by androgynous looking members here anyway.
I hope that Joao and Mikhail continue to have an active role in this long hair community as I sure as hell would miss their good company and it would be a bit less rich in diversity.
cheers, duncan
Hi Mikael,
First off I'm not going to add to the controversy that has taken hold here but just wanted to comment that your hair does look fabulous.The only complaint I have is that the pic is too grainy so a better camera would have produced a nicer shot.Or maybe the lighting was too dim which could have produced these results.I appreciate you participating here and giving us a pic which also shows your face.Sometimes we get the old back of the head shots as ones face does help complete the picture.Anyway I know your young as you are blessed with good looks so enjoy every moment of that.Have a great day my friend:)Cheers
Mârk
Thank you, and yeah I should probably have grabbed my real camera. I do appreciate your nice comments.
First off I feel the need to say that I'm rather surprised (not in a good way) by the way your post was first acknowledged. And I personally think that that "rule" needs reworking. But that's all I will add to that part of this thread.
Having said that, I agree with Mark in that this picture is too grainy and dark to make out your hair. I can't really say "the hair looks great" if I can't see it :p But I can say I do like your style and respect the way you handled the negativity. I'm looking forward to a better pic of your hair to see how it really looks!
Peace, love, and happiness!
Jarvis
Hi Jarvis,
It was educational,for me, the way Bill explained how this rule came about below but I do agree with what you said.This isn't the first time this issue came up and probably won't be the last.Personally I'm not bothered by such pictures or posts unless they really stray off topic.Not sure what the consensus is among the membership about men with androgynous looks but I'll weigh in and say I'm not offended by it at all.Cheers
Mârk
Here's a better photo of my mane (it's not looking it's best today, bad weather, and it needs a deep conditioning) and before anyone comments on my oh so girly decor, I share a place with my girlfriend and I had no say in either the pink trim or floral wall paper)
Hi Mikael,
Ah yes, much better pic and have to say you do have awesome hair and length.I looks great now so it must be awesome after some TLC:)Maybe you can talk your gf into redecorating some?LOL.Cheers
Mârk
Looks awesome man! Longer than I thought it was from the first pic
Holy God! That looks beautiful! I'm jealous! When I was 30, my body looked like that, too. I'm still skinny, but I have worked out alot in the last several years and even now, I still get mistaken for a woman, but just once in a while.
Now that I've read this entire thread, here are my two cents, one for each, if you will:
To Mikael:
No offence, but let's be honest: in that first picture, you look like a girl. Ask a thousand people and over 990 will say that it's a picture of a girl. Again, no offence intended, but that's just a fact. Since you yourself are aware that your facial features are somewhat more on the feminine side than average, one might think that you would try a little harder to avoid such obvious confusion by posting a better-lit picture, maybe from another angle or whatnot. One might almost think you did it on purpose, as an internet troll would do.
In your next pictures and your explanations, however, it became clear that you're a guy - and I actually like the way you look. Your hair looks nice, and thanks for sharing. It has become clear to me that you have not broken any rules on this board, and you should actually be applauded for growing your hair despite your soft facial features, because one of the first things one might consider, when getting tired of being called a girl all the time, is, in fact, to cut your hair. People implying, like Jason did here, that you look too feminine, are what make people like you cut their hair. So I applaud you for growing it anyway and for taking all of this in stride!
To Jason:
I like you, man, but there's a saying that comes to mind here: when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. And that's exactly what happened here: you saw a picture with what looked like a girl, or a guy trying to look like a girl. And I can't blame you, because that's what I saw too. However, there was nothing in the text indicating that this was a deliberate advocate of femininity. Yet you assumed that this was a transgender/crossdresser/advocate of femininity. Again, understandable, but still: you assumed wrong and you jumped to conclusions by referring to a rule that has not been broken since this is just a guy who happens to look how he looks, but he's not wearing a pearl necklace or a pink tutu. You basically implied that this guy is not manly enough, which is very offensive, and I'm actually surprised Mikael took your comments in stride. Had I been him, I would have been very very upset. Even though he could have made a better picture selection, as I said above.
I think you owe Mikael an apology for your assumption.
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Voilà, that's my take on it - do with it what you will! Now let's all get along :-)
This is not the first time he posted. His last round of pictures were blatantly feminine with makeup and overtly feminine clothing.
Well that does change things and would tip the scale over to "troll" again... *sigh*
So, Mikael, care to explain how your previous advocations of femininity can be combined with your current claims that you're not trying to be feminine at all?
I hardly call a tee shirt ad a little eyeliner feminine. People asked to see a photo of me dressed up for an event (I go regularly to BDSM events as I'm a rope bondage rigger) and so I posted one. I'm a masculine guy, and I see nothing wrong with a little bit of rock n' roll-yness, frankly if it weren't for my facial features, this wouldn't even be a question.
You said below "I in no way want or desire to look like a girl."
You make a reply asking for Any tips on appearing less feminine? (seriously) and yet you admit to wearing eye-liner....?
You are either being clueless or disingenuous. Wear eyeliner. Dress however you'd like. But don't pretend those are steps that a person attempting to appear more masculine would be taking.
I wear eyeliner, don't feel that it makes me look feminine. Plus what's more masculine that being comfortable enough with yourself to be a little androdgyness
I think you were still on hiatus when he posted the last pictures. There is no way it could have been considered remotely masculine. The thread has not been archived yet so I don't have a way of showing you the photo.
Hi Mikael, First I'd like to say hello and welcome. I must say that I did think that the first picture you posted looks like a woman, or possibly a crossdresser, in appearance and attitude. I actually thought you were a real girl playing a trick. I have definitely looked androgynous myself at different points in my life, and as a longhaired teenager in the 70's I used to get mistaken for a girl all the time.
There are plenty of other great looking, naturally androgynous guys here on the board who look totally like guys, androgynous ones. However there's a very different type of androgyny in your photos that crosses over to the point that you look like a woman. That's cool, but I agree with the rule, a site has to have some guidelines so it's defined in some way - "men who want to look like men and consider long hair to be part of their look" is a pretty broad spectrum to me. I don't think it's discriminatory, but defines the groups focus. The majority of the guys here seem to be supportive of each other regardless of sexual preference, and as an aspiring longhair who happens to be gay, I have no problem with the rule about guys who want to look like guys.
I'm not trying to be mean, but, it seems that either you're confused about the signal your image is sending out, or you want to confuse other people. I think guys totally have the right to enjoy looking feminine if they want to, but there are simple ways of looking more masculine if that's what he really wants to do. A lot of it has to do with clothing, especially if you're a longhaired guy.
Enjoy your beautiful hair, it looks rockin in your third photo! Take care,
Joey
Layered hair with fringe cut in, silky/satiny blouse-like burgundy button-down shirt with a black tank top underneath, wire-thin nose ring, thinly-plucked eyebrows, half-naked rear-view photos to below the waist, feminine postures and pouty lips (with lipstick?)... these are not the chosen traits of someone who is 'doing everything he possibly can' to appear more masculine. Oh, and you don't gain muscle easily? No kidding. It wasn't easy for me either. It's called WORKING out for a reason, slick.
It is incredibly obvious that you are NOT a man who is trying to look masculine, so quit whining about being mistaken for a girl, or for being called out as a guy who wants to look like a girl. Unlike many of the other people who have commented here, I do take exception to longhaired guys who go out of their way to look like women. Their (your) choice to do so does work against truly masculine longhaired men who are trying to convince society that long hair does not make a man "look like a girl."
--Val
Amen.
Women are welcome here. If you tell a woman she looks like a girl, well, duh she is one. That isn't a slur. We welcome female support just not men masquerading as women and pretending to not be.