new thread
J.M.M. - You should be ashamed of yourself for your hateful comments about gay marriage. You're obviously one of those people who uses religion as a weapon of hate.
Separation of church and state is one of the most important American concepts, which brought millions of immigrants to it's shores.
God is love, not judgement. Learn it or lose.
Joey
MLLH readers :
I posted this again, as it landed in the middle of another reply, and looked out of context.
I agree wholeheartedly that religion must NEVER be allowed to interfere in the running of a nation's government. There is a huge difference between being religious and being spiritual. Organised religion has screwed up a lot of people throughout the ages. Religion is a man made thing along with the bible. I do believe in God but I don't accept the bible or any religion as the word of God.
As for the Gay marriage controversy, I do fully support legally recognised civil partnerships but NOT marriages between persons of the same sex. This way it would at least cover a large range of civil and legal rights like access to partner's superannuation and other benefits which heterosexual married couples enjoy.
I view religious extremists as smug people who have closed their minds and often their hearts to people who are different to themselves and often annoy the more enlightened people who can at least explore different points of view.
cheers,
Duncan
Hey Duncan, I appreciate your thoughts.
I'm a new comer here, and didn't figure to get involved in such a political thread, but J.M.M.'s post was so , I felt I must respond. I don't have a political agenda, as J.M.M. apparently wants to promote on this board. I'm here to enjoy and celebrate long hair with the great people here.
I actually made a mistake describing the separation of church and state as an American concept. It's more than a concept, it's the law, and one of the first, and most important incorporated when the United States was formed, hence the arrival of the Puritans, the Pilgrims who landed at Plymouth Rock, in search of a life of religious freedom, away from the laws of England, which persecuted them and outlawed their religious practices. The Catholic extremists would love if we considered the separation a concept, rather than the law, as they have been struggling to break down the separation, by introducing prayer in public schools, and in other ways.
As to gay marriage, I don't believe in separate laws for different types of people, based on sex, race or beliefs. We are all humans on this planet together, and we should all enjoy exactly the same rights as one another. That's why I do support gay marriage. Civil unions don't offer the same rights that a legal marriage does in all states, or no rights at all. Singling out gay people as ineligible for marriage, only eligible for a civil union, invites public discrimination against us. Marriage offers important legal rights of inheritance, custody of children, (especially important if a spouse dies), and a legal, binding contract recognized by society, and throughout the world. It also ensures health insurance coverage for your spouse, from your job, and a lot of income tax breaks.
On your view of religious extremists, I agree with your points. I think if any of them actually ever met Jesus they would shun him, because he couldn't have been hateful like them, and he would waste no time putting them in their place.
I always remember the words "beware of false prophets" when I see people like J.M.M. promoting hatred among people. They use religion as an excuse to vent their rage and negativity upon other people.
Peace,
Joey
Hi Joey,
Good to chat with you and I am reminded of seeing this a few years ago which I will share with you.
There was a Car with a rear bumper bar sticker sticker that I once saw that said "Hate is not a Family Value" which makes a lot of sense. I do prefer loving something then to hate it. Hate is like a cancer - a sickness. Love heals.
I refuse to allow organised religion to dictate to me how to think, so allows me flexibility in thinking for myself and making up my own mind. In my opinion there are two many false prophets or con artists operating inside the auspices of religion. Years ago I listened on TV to a televangelist for 15 minutes only and had to switch off, thoroughly nauseated by the rubbish spewing out of that person's mouth. I was amazed that people could take this person seriously. I think it was either Jimmy Swaggart or Jerry Falwell.
Another message I like is the saying "by their fruits you shall know them". I respect your point of view Joey but at this time in my life I still do have some socially conservative beliefs despite generally having predominantly left wing ideals.
I am less conservative then 5 years ago, and a lot less then 20 years ago.
This board does usually concentrate more on the positive stuff concerning hair, giving encouragement, and cheers for guys who are growing out their hair or just need a bit of heart support. Every now and again something does flare up that may divide members. This doesn't happen that often but unfortunately on this forum group there are a few members that have "issues". The large majority of people here are cool and worthwhile knowing and are here for the right reasons.
cheers,
Duncan
J.M.M. wrote :
Hi Duncan,
I know the MLLH boards usual good vibe from checking in here frequently in the last few months, but when I saw the statement that J.M.M. wrote in the above paragraphs, in a reply to "It's been a while" I felt a duty so speak up.
It wasn't my intention to post anything off topic on the board, but the statements J.M.M. made are particularly hateful, and I felt I had to respond, not just because I'm gay, but because I'm an American.
In the sentences above that guy is promoting things like censorship, public discrimination of an individual group, and the repeal of the First Amendment, which ensures separation of church and state. These are not American values.
Thanks for your own thoughts Duncan. I respect your point of view also, though I do differ with you on the marriage issue. It's great that you describe yourself as socially conservative, but you are good hearted and intelligent to lend an ear, and respect other viewpoints. I wish everyone could have that quality. I didn't post my points on marriage to convince you, or anyone to support gay marriage, only to define the reasons why some people, including me, support it.
What I'm talking about is off topic here, but if J.M.M. can post a deliberately hateful message, then it needs to be addressed in my opinion.
By the way, I always liked that "Hate is not a family value" slogan also. It really puts things into perspective in just a few words.
I'm happy to be here at MLLH, and I don't usually get involved in political issues or flames, but this post really needed to be addressed in my opinion.
Peace, Joey
Joey,
Don't be ignorant here, America was not founded on the idea that gay "marriage" was acceptable. Gay marriage in America never happened during the founding of this Republic. People in the early days of America wanted freedom to practice their particular faith and people then believed in G-d strongly, nowadays the liberalization and secularization of America destroyed this. America was founded because people wanted to practice freely in a faith and not have a king tell them otherwise and persecute them for it. That is why there is separation of church and state. It has nothing to do with having freedom for government to say you're gay and can legally marry. The institution of marriage is one that is sacred to G-d and when it is made a mockery of humanity then suffers and eventually pays the price (ex. AIDS). Sorry if the truth offends you but sometimes the truth needs to be heard no matter how unpopular it can be to a particular audience. By the way, I am not a Bible nut like Rick Santorum, Rick Santorum is a bought and paid for religious hypocrite and a very stupid man.
Sincerely,
J.M.M.
Ok, J.M.M., firstly, thanks for the laugh. Your ideas are so ridiculous that I can't bother to even address the juvenile nonsense you wrote.
I'll tell you one thing, if there's some visit from God coming up, you better hide yourself good, because he's gonna fry you.
Are you actually saying that Aids is a punishment from God against gays, and gay marriage? That is a really monsterous thing to say, and you will pay the karma for that in your own life. If you believe in sin, that you have committed a great one right by saying such a deliberately malicious thing.
You speak like a fallen and lost person. I hope you can return to love someday.
Joey
Joey,
Remember back to the days of Noah. When the Earth is total decimated the second time around don't say I didn't warn you. I'm wasting my time though as someone like you will never believe it can or will happen again. Gay marriage worldwide will be the one event that ends the world. Only in Noah's day was gay marriage sanctioned by government. So if G-d will destroy the world because government allows gay marriage, then I am against it because honestly I'm not looking to go down with the sinking ship!
J.M.M.
Fairy tale (pun intended), Chapter One
Fairy tale, Chapter Two
G-d sank the ship in a sea of gay c-m.
Fairy Tale, Chapter Three
With all the bigots drowned, everyone lived Happily Ever After!
I goofed up on the history in my last post, but my point still holds the same. The Puritans fled England and it's national church in the 1600's, way before separation of church and state became law in the United States, as the First Amendment, in the Bill of Rights, in 1791.
The Pilgrims made the first step in the United States towards the goal of separation of church and state when they arrived here. Their extreme desire for freedom, and the price they paid for it shaped this countries spirit.
Joey
Actually, the main reason the pilgrims left England wasn't to escape religious persecution, but to allow them to practise it.
... "Religulous" is now available for instant viewing on Netflix. It's one of my all-time favorites.
--Val