new thread
Hello all,
I just started posting here a few days ago, and suddenly got caught up in some very political, off topic stuff here on the MLHH board.
Recently another person here on MLHH posted some remarks regarding both politics and gay people that I found very offensive, not only because I'm gay, but because I'm an American. I came to this site as a peaceful, aspiring long haired guy, to discuss long hair related subjects, and enjoy the community here, not to get involved with any debates.
The offensive poster seems to suggest that MLHH should not allow gay members, or that gay people shouldn't be permitted to identify themselves here. (he minces his words, referring to MLHH supposedly promoting homosexual behavior (?!), but that is the essence of what he is saying).
I responded to the offensive poster, and found only one other person here on MLHH, so far, who wrote some supportive words about my response.
I know these subjects are off topic, but I didn't bring it up in the first place.
I have a question - Are gay people welcome here?
Most members here post casual comments in their posts here about their lives, their families, and friends, or events they attend. Is it not acceptable for gay or bisexual members and visitors on MLHH to do the same?
I don't feel any need to talk about my private life here, that's not what I'm here for, but being gay is an important part of who I am, why shouldn't I identify myself or refer to it if it comes up naturally in a conversation here directly related to hair?
I'm feeling discouraged about continuing to be part of MLHH, after this part of my experience here, and so little support.
I guess that was the goal of the offensive poster that I referred to.
Peace,
Joey
Joey-I'm sorry you got that offensive response from that person...I agree that someone's sexual orientation should not interfere with the long hair board-I support you and welcome you with open arms...
Dee
P.S. Keep growing your hair and posting!
Hey Dee, thank you buddy, very much.
Your hair is looking great!
Joey
Joey,
I completely support you, although I was not involved in the initial conversation, I too happen to be gay! And proud of it!
I and most on this board do not have a problem with your orientation, we are who we are. Take it or leave it. I'm truly sorry you had such a negative welcoming to MLHH.
I am relatively new here as well. I hope you continue to visit, as you are a valued person here.
My best,
Kenny
Thanks for your support Kenny!
Joey
Hi Joey,
In the short time you've been here, I have enjoyed your insights and contributions, and hope you'll continue to frequent the MLHH. You happened to hop on board during one of the relatively rare times that a conversation got a little heated. What can I say? We're all human, and it happens.
As far as your sexual orientation is concerned, please don't feel the need to hide it in conversing with us here. Some of the best guys in this little online community happen to be gay, and I'm grateful for the friendship they've extended to me over the past several years, in addition to sharing their wisdom and knowledge specifically pertaining to long hair (which really IS the point of the MLHH, after all). As long as the conversations stay clean and respectful, there is no good reason that you shouldn't be able to tastefully discuss aspects of your personal life to the same degree that those of us who are straight do.
Thanks for caring enough to wait around for an explanation, and for being conscientious enough to speak out against intolerance and religious bigotry.
--Val
Thank you Val, It's good to read what you say here. I'm very happy to hear that you have benefited from the friendship of gay members here. It makes me proud.
Thank you for thanking me for speaking out against intolerance and religious bigotry. For a moment there I felt like a lone crusader in the center of a deserted battlefield.
Cheers to you Val,
Joey
Hi Joey, I feel the same way to. I feel like this site is like an exclusive site with people who click with another, stay with one another. It seems like a "clicky" site to me, it feels like going to an all boys high school all over again. The same dramas I experienced from being in an all male environment with the questions or issues of "masculinity" and "sexuality."
On the issues of "masculinity":
This I find to be very "subjective", what one finds masculine, others may not. I am now afraid to post pictures of different hairstyles I am experimenting with because; what if someone finds it to be feminine? Then I would be in trouble for violating the "masculinity" rules. I still question my last post on the French pony, whether it looks masculine? Maybe not even as "masculine" as the bandanna post you did. You sure fooled me with that post now that you've opened up with your sexuality. The issues on "Masculinity" is a very big discourse, and I still don't buy what is written from PhD dissertations regarding this issue because there will always be a proliferating rhetorical loophole or analysis about this matter.
On the issues of Sexuality:
I can quote many philosophers like Michel Foucault on the "History of Sexuality," "Hegelian" discourse, Judith Butler (whom I have had the privilege of taking one of her graduate seminar when I was an undergraduate at UC Berkeley). But I feel like this is not the place to be having a debate on this topic, I've constantly dealt with this topic on intellectual basis, even well into my graduate years. I just for once would like to get away from this and just concentrate on growing hair! Growing hair is a universal human phenomenon, and perhaps focus on methods of growth, trying to as much as possible avoid bringing the issues within gender and sexuality discourse. Again I would consider this to be a very subjective topic, and many scholars will continue to disagree with one another. So can we all go beyond scholars and just support each other and embrace our differences?
Oh and one more thing, I am so sick and tired of having to put my name and email just to post things because I am not a member yet.
thanks for your honesty, and I support you with my heart!
-rowie
Perhaps you missed my post in that thread in which I showed my halfup in a clip. This was far more "feminine" than anything you've posted. I stand by what I said in my reply in which I included the picture.
I have posted my hair in all manner of styles including braids and buns over the years and so have many other members.
Post whatever styles you'd like.
Thanks! You have amazing hair!
cheers,
rowie
Thanks rowie. I'm looking forward to your contributions showing various styles. You've got fabulous hair to work with!
Hi Rowie, Wow, I gotta say, after reading what you wrote here, you are way too interesting to quit the board. I've enjoyed your other posts, but this one is especially interesting to me.
I'm feeling a bit better after reading all the positive responses to my questions. I really felt like I had to bring this up front, to the table, and I'm glad I did.
Masculinity is such a touchy issue, there's such a strong pressure to fit in to a very specific type of masculinity here in the United States, which as you probably know, is different from other countries. I think I'm usually seen as very masculine, but I also know that I also have some androgynous qualities that I'm totally comfortable with. I'm just me, and I'm a guy, big deal.
I don't know what you mean about how I fooled you with my previous post after I revealed my sexuality. I admire the androgynous guys here, as much as all the other various longhaired types here. To me an androgynous man can still look primarily like a guy and show that plainly, without compromising his natural unique androgyny, that's how I see most of the great androgynous men on this site. The line gets crossed with the feminine clothing, plucked eyebrows, and makeup, as well as the attitude. I don't think there's anything wrong with that either, only that it doesn't fit the category of this group.
I don't think you should be discouraged to post your cool hairstyle experiments. Those posts are fun spirited and great to look at. I know a lot of people here really enjoyed them.
Being new here, I guess we're in the same boat. I guess it's about seeing who's who, and using your discretion when choosing to interact, or even reading some of the posts.
Take care Rowie, I think you are awesome.
Joey
Hi Joey,
I think you are awesome as well, and hope you stay on board. Oh I'm just naive when it comes to looking at your pics. To me, they were so masculine that I thought you were straight. hehehe But you have a great sense of style man! Kudos to you, and I hope to learn more about your style.
cheers and hugs,
rowie
Thank you rowie! , I'm looking forward to reading more posts from you!
take care : )
joey
I've been here off and on for fifteen years, and I can say MLHH is a very welcoming place. (Some of the moderators are gay in case that particular issue is of concern.) By being a welcoming place, MLHH also lets its regular users comment on their feelings so long as this does not make the site unwelcoming for anyone else. Knowing how we all feel is part of building a community.
The rules cover a few places where users have gone the farthest astray on this, such as the rules taking special care to let those for whom English is not their first language know they are welcome.
If the board drifts too heavily off the topic of hair, the crew will clean it of the non-hair posts to restore the site's balance. If an individual uses far more than his fair share of staff resources, they will clean the site of him to restore the site's peace. So long as one does his part to make the site welcoming to others and does not go too heavily off topic, he should never run across such management activity.
The site's foremost policy is to be especially protective of young longhairs who are prone to bullying abuse. This is why activity that celebrates "get a haircut" or "you look like a girl", the two major slurs against longhairs, is prohibited, and there are special rules about posting photos of young guys and stalking users. In these cases the crew does not do a weighing of the desires of the parties involved. They come down swift and hard on the side of the young longhair. Bullying is not tolerated here, nor is activity that far too painfully reminds those of us who have been bullied of it.
I was surprised to see the recent discussion stay on the board as long as it did. Usually the crew removes threads discussing prohibited behaviors as fast as they remove posts containing the behavior. Sometimes they let a discussion continue to let users know their thoughts are cared about and give users a chance to weigh in, but this happens a minimal number of times.
Yes, for the most part many of us don't want to see that crap much, and the crew does spare us from it. But maybe it's good we do see it sometimes, so we know what the crew puts up with on our behalf, day in and day out.
Stick around here, man. You'll find you won't see much of that stuff here.
Bill
Hey Bill, thanks very much for your reply. I am glad that the posts remained as long as they have also. I guess it's good that MLHH users see that there are people with the offensive posters viewpoint even within the long hair community. His remarks absolutely made me feel unwelcome, and that's why I responded.
I was really surprised to see someone like that here at all. I've never seen anything as deliberately mean spirited before on this board.
This poster also is endorsing a presidential candidate in his posts. Is that permitted here?
Joey
You know, I am not a regular poster here anymore, but I was very active when I started growing my hair. I can in fact say that this is where I really started learning how to take care of it and some people here really helped me get over a lot of drama I went through because I was growing my hair.
I have had drama for other reasons too, androgyny being one of them.
The problem is that people need to know if you have a penis or a vagina first, and then they'll know exactly what to expect from you. If you don't deliver, then you're in trouble.
I believe this place should be for everyone who has a penis, to have suport regarding their hair. I know there are a lot of gay people in the board, and some are very regular posters and have been here for a very long time. I think you should feel welcome, because in the end, there are a lot of good people here, and they will be there for you and for whoever comes.
It's really a shame that there are so many people with close minds and who are simply mean. I've come to a point where I despite "regular" people, I think it's such a silly concept. I can only pity people who force themselves to comform to society norms and hate on others to assure they are normal and regular, when there's no such thing.
But anyways, enough rambling. The point is, some of the people who were here when I was a regular, and who were great, are still here and are still awesome, at least to my knowledge.
So yes, please feel welcome =)
Thank you so much Joao, I really love what you wrote, and I love the way you wrote it. You are an exceptional person with incredible hair.
I can sympathize with you regarding the androgyny related drama. As I said in another post, I was often mistaken for a girl as a teenager, and it was very difficult and confusing for me. I have always retained some androgynous physical qualities, even now with my thick moustache. I'm very comfortable with who I am and the particular balance of masculine / feminine that I possess.
Whenever I get a vibe on the street, or wherever, from some jerk who is examining me a little too closely, trying to figure me out, I just remember how much heroic strength it takes just to be me everyday, and get by in this world, and that makes me feel 7 feet tall.
Just remember that, Joao, anyone who is trying to give you a hard time for being yourself has no idea how much bravery it takes for you to be yourself, especially when you are a unique person, they could never have any fraction of your strength, they are cowards, and afraid to see someone who is fearless.
Take care : )
Joey
No need to thank me Joey =)
And thanks for your advice. That's actually how I live my everyday life. I am very proud of what makes me diferent and I actually love being recognized by it, even in a negative way. I know some people feel bothered my some of the things that I love about myself, so I actually like when they are tickled by me.
Stay strong and happy hair growing! =D
Joao, That's great to hear!! Rock on.
Joey
Joey,
I know there are several gay members here at MLHH. you are most welcome here as far as I can tell. I know for sure that you would be more than welcome at gaylonghair.com. Why not think about becoming a member there! This site is about men's longhair,not sexual orientation and bashing of any manner should not be tolerated.
peace, jonalbear
Hey jonalbear, Thank you. Yes, I checked out gaylonghair.com, and I may post there too. I'm feeling a bit better after reading all the positive responses here.
Joey
Joey,
You could also look at in it a completely different light. Were there lots of people jumping up to support J.M.M.'s viewpoint? By his own admission, his assertions on homosexuality were met with hostility the last time he brought them up. I was included in the group that expressed a very different view. It's definitely been discussed and he's in small minority in the way he believes.
I also feel he has a right to express himself within reason. We don't want the board to be one big debate about homosexuality and, honestly, it rarely is.
Jason
Hey Jason, thanks for your reply. It's good to hear that you spoke against that guy. I know that the focus on this site is long hair. That user was using the site to promote his unrelated beliefs.
Take care,
Joey
Hey there Joey, the thing is that 99% of the guys on MLHH are great people and completely open minded. There are a few other gay posters here too. I myself am bisexual and I never felt unwelcome here. You have to understand that every forum online is full of people that have different world views. You shouldn't base the entire site off a bad experience or two. It usually isn't even political here, it happens once in a while. This is a great forum and it would be sad to see you leave because of somebody who you will probably never meet anyway.
Thank you buddy!
n/t
pug,
Cool reference and parallel to this OT subject.
Thanks for posting it!
peace, jonalbear
Since my real father died when I was small, I have adopted Morgan Freeman as my father. He doesn't know about it yet but I've adopted him anyway. That man is AWESOME!!!! :)
Damon
Morgan Freeman is brilliant! Kudos to him and his logical reasoning! Point of interest though, there is a white history month, it comes every October. Most black people dislike black history month, they just want to be treated as normal and not pointed out. Black History Month gives black people the idea they are inferior in some way, it's like relegating them to being disabled in some way. That's not good. Black History Month only helps to promote racism against blacks as I see it (conservative minded white and black people resent this month). It's no wonder Jews don't desire to have Jewish history month. I am a Jew by heritage and would be offended to have Jewish History Month promoted.
I agree with you on this. I know black people who also dislike the term African American as if there's something wrong with being referred to as black. Blacks, whites and every race are equal, why should there be a special term for black people living in America? What happens if they move to Canada or Mexico or Europe?
I happened to have been actually born in Africa and I'm American so I am African American and yet have white skin.
Morgan Freeman is right. The less differences are pointed out, the more quickly the ugly blemish of racism will be removed from our society.
Hey guys, I didn't really want to comment about this Morgan Freedman quote, since I've done my fair share of off topic madness here already, but now that there are several answers on this already, I guess I will contribute my two cents.
It's good to read all of your ideas, and I respect your points of view, but I don't agree with the idea that racism will go away if we just stop talking about it.
I have never known of any problem to be solved by ignoring it, or saying it isn't really a problem. It usually just gets much worse. That's what I've seen in both everyday life and the in bigger picture, related to politics and world events.
Now, back to the business of growing hair! Hooray!
Peace,
Joey
I would start a Hippie History Month, but there are already too many people saying hippies are history.
Bill
Aww, don't say that Bill!
Hello Joey,
weather you are gay or not you are welcome to this board. There are some men that are gay who post here all the time.
I WELCOME YOU HERE TO THE BOARD!
Birdman
Thank you Birdman!!
Joey
Hello Joey,
Don't let some peoples opinions stop you from posting here. You are welcome to post here. Please don't leave us.
Joey,
I hear you loud and clear and rest asure you are amongst friends here:)Don't feel isolated because you are not.I know where you are coming from believe me.The poster you are referring to has done this rant in the past but thankfully it hasn't occurred in a long while until now.Normally we don't permit such threads to get out of control but sometimes it serves a purpose to let users see where some people stand and reveal themselves.Frankly the bigots only isolate themselves with their attitudes.Once I know who they are I avoid them myself.As for political ads they technically should have been removed as mlhh doesn't endorse candidates of any party.Please do stick around my friend:)Cheers
Mârk
Hi Mark! It's great to read what you say here. I understand why it may be good to let people see where some of these obnoxious posters stand. I guess they pretty much stand alone, unless they want to behave respectfully here. That's good to know.
Cheers to you Mark, I always enjoy reading your posts here!
Joey
Hi Joey,
First of all, welcome! I've been a member of this board since its begining and here I met a lot of really nice people, some just nice and one or two that I didn't want to check weather or not they were nice. hehehe... Here I made many friends and received support and some criticism too. I don't remember being asked about my sexual orientation or being discriminated for some reason at all. Maybe because that was not important since I was here to discuss men's long hair or maybe because I learned something very useful myself: If I want to be respected, I must accept the fact that not all people would accept me the way I am, and they have that right. As I have the right to give or not give importance to their opinion. It's impossible to make everybody happy. I'm very happy with the friends I made here. Some of them are gay, some are straight, some may be bissexual. It doesn't matter to me. They are my old friends and I like them all the way they are. And that's the way it has to be. I don't feel happy, sad, offended or sorry about the people who don't accept me. Because I don't need their acceptance, I just think that I have to accept me and I have to respect them, as they have to respect me but not necessarily accept me. When I realized that I wouldn't have everybody's acceptance, I stopped suffering. If someone follows Ron Paul's or RuPaul's ideas is not important to me, being respected and accepting myself is. I hope you enjoy being here. ;)
Hi Walter, Thanks for the welcome and your thoughts here, I understand what you say. I don't look for everyone to accept me either, but I do expect them to respect me. I have enjoyed being here, very much, I just felt that I needed to see where things were at here.
Peace,
Joey
Hello Joey,
Just expressing my whole-hearted support for you being here and I have no problems with your being gay. There are many fantastic and genuinely real guys here who I respect and admire who are also gay. A person's own sexuality is their business. I do however have no time for and zero tolerance for bullies and self-righteous people of small petty minds. Unfortunately on this board there are one or two that I know of. These immature people do not enjoy much support from other members and the best thing to do is not to respond to them.I did enjoy our little chat and look forward to seeing you more active on this board. Check out the archives section sometime if you like to see what has gone on in the past here.
Cheers, Duncan
Hey Duncan, Thank you. I enjoy your strong words about self - righteous people!! Right on, dude. I agree, it's probably best to ignore the couple of trolls that pop up here, or on any site, since they feed on discord and anger. Some things are unimaginable to me, maybe I'm naive, I guess in my mind I assume everyone would like harmony among people, but sometimes I see certain people showing they want just the opposite, and I'm very puzzled by that. Perhaps they feel unloved.
I have looked at and used the archive section here a few times, it's very helpful to find information. I used it to find out about shampoos and conditioners, and bought great inexpensive products after my research.
I really enjoyed chatting with you too Duncan! You have great insight, and your support means a lot to me.
Take care!
Joey
Hi Joey, you are most welcome to this board. I agree with you that it should be a discussion place for matters relating to long hair - the name of the board gives the clue! There are plenty of other sites available for those who wish to air other views. Let's get back to the subject of long hair.
Hi Ian, thank you for the welcome, and the chuckle, it is appreciated, buddy.
I must say that your hair is so amazing. Congratulations on growing and maintaining such a great mane!
Peace,
Joey
Hey Joey,
I'm in typical late fashion (pretty much no access to a computer while at working school during the day)... but I'll just add my name to the list that says as long as a person means no harm, no matter who they are, they've get a friend in me ^_^ .
Diversity makes this planet richer and a better place after all, right :D ? Those who say otherwise are closed-minded and can't see the forest from the trees, as an old friend of mine would say ;) . There are always one or two rotten apples everywhere, but here at MLHH, you'll always find good, open-minded friends who are as interested in good looking, long (or short) hair as swing traders are interested in market turmoil, or something like that ~_~ ...
...we always try to stick to hair as much as we can ^_~ .
Glad to have you on board buddy ^^ !
SIncerely,
yoshiki
Thanks Yoshiki! your words here are great to read. The responses I've received to my question have been very encouraging. I do realize that there are only a couple of bad apples here, and I'll just avoid them as much as I can in the future.
I've enjoyed reading your posts, and visiting your website!
Cheers,
Joey
Not sure where all this drama was. I suppose I missed that thread. Actually there are more gay guys on this board than in society as a whole, and we get along pretty well, I think.
No, I'm not gay. OTOH, several of the people who pointed out that there are a lot of gay guys here ARE gay, and didn't tell you that they are, LOL! Not quite sure why that is. If you really want to know, just compare the users here with those at the Gay Longhair board.
If this seems like a clique, that's because a lot of us have been hanging out here a long while. It's not a hyper masculine clique who haze the new guys.
Hey Electros, thanks for your funny and true reply! I didn't get the sense of a clique here, but I wasn't sure where things stood in regards to gay members or visitors here. Like I said before, I'm here to talk about hair related stuff, I just got caught up in one bad apples very bigoted remarks in another post. I'm happy to move on to what we're here for - Hair and happiness!
Take care,
Joey
There are lots of hams on here, and they don't go out of their way to tell you who they are either. Could it be that we come here to talk about long waves instead of short ones?
N3KIP DE K9AT SK
--------------------------------
Hi Joey, MLHH is supposed to be gay friendly, and I am sorry for the bad first impression. Out of 116 official users 24 (20%)are gay or bi that I know of. I am sure there are even more that I am not aware of. I would hope you will stick around and not let one or two rude users scare you off. You are most welcome here.
Scott
Hi Scott, thanks you!!
Joey
Sorry that this happened to you. I think I speak for the majority in that you are welcomed here! There is always going to be someone who is negative. The vast majority of individuals on this site are quite excepting and open minded people.
Darrin