new thread
Folks,
This article by George McEvoy of the Palm Beach Post may be rather controvertial but he writes:-
"Dig through the attic and see if you can find your old peace-symbol necklace and your love beads. Put on your bell-bottom jeans, sandals and tie-dye shirt. Let your hair grow down below your shoulders if you're a guy -- the 1960s may well be coming back.
"It all depends on President Bush."
....read on.
Charles
n/t
Well I read the article, I honestly don't think there would be the oposition if the draft were to come up, too many sheep out there want to follow along in the name of safety. I personally will opose it if it were to come up, and I think I would have little suport though.
I hope it never comes to that, because I wouldn't look foward to the hassels and the legal bills I would have fighting it, should the government try to draft me, since I am 23. I am not sure at what age they stop, I think 18-24 but I don't know. I'll be 24 in december so I hope Nothing comes up until then.
I am not a lawyer, but have some interesting ideas on how to fight it.
The first ideas are that the draft is ageist and sexist. Not only that it think the idea of forceing males to register is wrong, and not being able to secure school loans, or employment for not registering is almost like durress. Another way might be that the military is so fond of making military service a "contract". Would you sign a "contract" for a house loan, or a car loan, if you disagree with the terms? If they suggest it is like a job, then would you take a job you wouldn't like, or you felt didn't pay you what you wanted?
The problem I see as I look at the things I've learned about history is that the oposition in the late 60's early 70's should have done more. If they as a group had all been arested they would have clogged the court systems, and the jails, which may have made peole take them more seriously. Parents may have questioned more as to why their children were being locked up, and why the government was so determined. Their biggest problem was lack of support from adults or as they said then, "don't trust anyone over 30." Either way I think that by leaving to Canada, or giving in and going to the military weakened their cause.
I heard a song once from that time, which suggested that rater than burning the draft cards they should just keep sending in 10 or 20 ficticious registrations every day, which might have also put a damper on the military, bogging them down. Today it might be harder to do, with computers in the government all linked up, they may be more able to know about who they want, but people could send in many ficticious registrations online.
I don't mean to insult anyone, but I know my father was in the military and didn't want to be there, and friends at work that are older lost their innocense and childhood, and frankly no one should be forced into a situation that jeperdizes their well being, or saftey.
If there's a draft, i'll be sure to dodge it, I'll be a bum in canada before I go out and am forced to kill people who I have no negative feelings toward (I wouldn't even kill anyone I have negative feelings toward)
Interesting article. However, I believe it's VERY unlikely that a draft would be imposed. If so, and I was drafted (and young enough) -- you're damnned right I would go!
No, I don't believe in killing, etc. Would I enjoy doing that?
The answer is NO!!
(I wouldn't enjoy losing my half-back length hair either).
However,I do believe in this country and it's ideals. I agree 100% that these terrorist regime's should be abolished. Just look at what these countries do to their own people!!
Saying that the US is to blame for the attacks is the equivalent of saying that "it's OK that my neighbor (etc.) attacked me with a baseball bat --I deserved it -- I insulted him yesterday". Now, does that make much sense? If it happened to you; would you simply let it go and do nothing? I THINK NOT.
Another scenerio:
If someone was to punch you in the face every time they saw you, how many times would it take for you to fight back?
That's exactly what we're doing, by the way. Most college students are simply too young to understand why America is doing what it's doing. It's about time.
Yeah, I used to think the same way as them. Now I'm older. Generally, as a person ages they become wiser, and many of their viewpoints change.
I certainly wouldn't be a pussy and run off to Canada (or some other country) to hide. I guess the people that would do that would probably just move to a different state to avoid the "face-puncher". Just a guess.
Anyway, that's how I feel about it. As Americans, we have the right to express OUR ideas and opinions FREELY. I just did so. So, in effect; if you disagree with this post -- that's fine. You are entitled to your own opinion. You won't change mine.
The above rebutle was directed at your post. My mistake, I get too hot over this stuff.
Relax man. Actually, that was a good post TT -- and I agree with most of it. Don't get me wrong -- I have nothing against Canada. I still believe that the US is responding correctly to the events of Sept. 11th. Obviously, there is no easy solution. I simply think that a person should defend their country -- IF it's the right thing to do.
I think; in the past, some of our "interference" was not the right thing to do. In this case, IT IS. Yes, the draft sucks. When I was of age, I thought it was ludicrous to have to register for something that (if you didn't) you would get arrested and possibly jailed for.
Are you aware that these terrorists are indoctrinated at a very young age; and taught to believe that killing people who don't follow their beliefs -- is right? They are just small children; being programmed by EVIL people to kill -- without remorse. They believe that they will be rewarded by their "creator" for doing such deeds. SICK.
The United States (and allies [last time I checked Canada was one]} are the free-est (sp?) countries on the planet. Unlike the middle east, we won't get shot for speaking out against the gvmt.
Anyway, like I implied before; I don't believe in needless killing or war. I thought I made that clear. No one wants to have to do that (IF in their right-minds anyway). We need to try and stop this BS now. I believe that the world will be a better place if the Talaban (etc.) is ENDED -- by whatever means possible. Don't you? I really don't think that talking to these people is going to work. I can't believe that you would either. What's YOUR solution?
Do you actually think that these terrorists will just suddenly stop their attacks -- if we do NOTHING? Has that been their track record so far?
A little off-topic:
Did you know, that the main reason for possessing nuclear weapons is to PREVENT war? For example; if you approach someone with a knife and you see that they have an AK-47 -- are you likely to attack them? Of course not.
You see, TT, I'm using logic here -- not blind emotion. It doesn't bother me or make me angry if someone disagrees with my opinion! I tend to think that they are reacting based on pure emotion without considering the logic involved (on this topic).
People want more gun control in this country. Now, let me ask you:
Is a criminal (who doesn't generally respect laws) going to decide NOT to buy a gun to commit a crime because of such laws? No! This person won't go to a gun store to buy the weapon -- he'll get it off of the street. So what has gun control accomplished? Here in the US, we already have over 22,000 gun laws. Do people still get assaulted by guns? OF COURSE THEY DO!!
Crime (and terrorism) will NEVER be stopped. However, they can be reduced significantly.
If you do some ACTUAL, FACT-BASED research; you'll find that in places where the average citizen can carry a gun (concealed or not) -- that gun crimes have DROPPED (search the net). (I'm referring to the USA).
The point is this:
If we simply turn our backs and let these terrorists go unchallenged; it can and WILL only get worse. Let me reiterate, that I don't want to join the Army and cut my nice, long hair -- but would do it if needed. Believe me, I've been growing my hair since 1993; I'd HATE to have to start over. What if everyone decided they would leave the country -- what kind of military power would we have? That's a rhetorical statement, of course.
Well, this isn't supposed to be a political debate hyperboard; so I'll end with this:
How about you give me some LOGICAL (non-emotion based) reasons to accept your line of thinking? Other than:
"As for moving to Canada, If you feel that you will be persicuted for excersing you personal beliefs will land you in jail, then why
not seek asylum in a place that will not persicute you."
What place is this? Oh yeah, I already live here -- the US of A. By the way, if "excersing you personal beliefs...jail" means not registering for the draft -- YES (here) IT WILL get you arrested (however, this is pretty unlikely). I don't claim that the US is perfect. So far, the capitalist system has proven to be the best in the world. Don't believe me? Look it up. Did you pass history in school? (Sorry, didn't mean to get rude).
I guess you mean "exercising" instead of "excersing". Try and get your facts straight, please (well, spelling would help too). If you do respond; could you provide some logical reasoning for your argument?
Make sure to mention something about long hair though (LOL).
The question we should be raising HERE is, "WHY must we make that choice?" No other social group in this country must choose between not serving their country and self-mutilation. Why can't we longhaired men fight for our country if we want to? A few other countries do allow us to serve. Hopefully one would be an ally in a major war, and one could enlist there?
I don't know the exact answer to your question, but I've heard a couple of reasons for (their) butchering and mutilation of long hair. The first one is supposedly to prevent the enemy from GRABBING long hair and using it to their advantage. I doubt this has really ever happened, though.
The other reason I've heard is to "remove" individuality from the military (i.e. every cog is part of the main gear system). I suppose, as part of training, the main purpose is to make everyone equal to everyone else in order to function as ONE unit.
In actuality this makes sense to me. Make everyone look the same, think the same; therefore function as one large fighting force; as opposed to a varying group of questionable individuals. From a strategic standpoint this makes sense. You want to train a bunch of killing machines? Teach (brainwash) them to act and think in unison. No one is different -- there are NO individual soldiers here -- but instead, an efficient fighting force (that doesn't question authority -- unlike me!). Essentially they are name-less and face-less.
It seems barbaric, but I do believe it is the best way to form an absolutely disciplinary fighting force -- one that will be conditioned to face some of the most difficult things imaginable.
Although, I wouldn't want to live my life this way; I think it is the best way to achieve particular objectives. Especially when numerous lives are at stake -- during a war.
For a long time, I despised the military (no, I never signed up). That was before I began to understand their reasons for conforming to such standards. Of course; in my opinion; these standards DON'T apply to civilian life for the most part.
After all, civilians don't face these challenges and (generally) aren't required to follow the extreme discipline to function in daily life. I'm not an advocate of "brainwashing"; but I do believe that this (the military's) type of "brainwashing" keeps them organized and able to function (do their jobs) under extremely difficult circumstances.
Actually, it can be a learning experience (according to friends I know that DID enlist). After they have left the military life; they are more disciplined and tend to do things promptly -- as they should (unlike me -- the professional procrastinator).
So, all-in-all, it appears to be a good thing. Course, one reason I never signed up is the fact that I tend to question authority -- a lot! I'm also a manic-depressive; so I may have done what the (crazy) guy in Full Metal Jacket did to his CO. Not good for me. Take care all.
Almost forgot -- happy Independence DAY!
Well if that happens I'm glad I live in the land of Eternal Ice And Snow...EH? *munches on a donut* Mmmm....double chocolate.... Homer Simposn was right - Choice of donuts is democracy at it's finest! *lol* And so is being able to choose if you will fight in a war you believe to be immoral.
Every Time I drive by one of those billboards that show the big aircraft carrier, and the questions about "Navy, defending your right to_______________" I fill it in with, "not be in the navy, army, airforce, marines, ect!" Frankly what bothers me is that people are so anxtious to get others for something, that may not have even directly affected them. I'm sure I will sound very insensitive but, frankly what happened in sept sucks, but bad things happen in life, and the only single gaurantee I know of is death. frankly I'm so burnt out on hearing about it that I really feel the media has run it into the ground.
When I lived in Georgia a few years ago, there was a graffitti statement on the side of a decrepid house. It said, something to the effect of, "It's not news anymore, it propaganda now". The governement has taken such advantage of events of last sept to take and make more rules, many rediculouse, and further be big brother to the citizens of this country, most of them such sheep that the gladdly accept it all in the name of saftey. I'M SORRY SAFTEY DOESN'T EXIST PEOPLE! YOU ARE CONSTANTLY AT RISK OF SOMETHING POTENTIALLY BAD HAPPENING EVERY DAY! YOU COULD HAVE A CAR ACCIDENT, YOUR HOUSE COULD BURN DOWN, BAD THINGS HAPPEN! Wake Up People!
If you've read my post you would relize we have oposite views, but do you relize that most people who are drafted are barly 18. They have not got the maturity level to handle the brutal nature of war. My biggest complaint more importantly is that most of those draftee's never got a chance to vote, which may or may not have an influince on whether they were drafted or not! Basically they are being used, to achive the goals of a few powerfull individualls, and I suggest that you question every thing that those in power say. Just about every war has been fought for something really stupid!, and for someones profit.
As for moving to Canada, If you feel that you will be persicuted for excersing you personal beliefs will land you in jail, then why not seek asylum in a place that will not persicute you.
THANK YOU for thinking straight! I'm just waiting for the evening 'news' so I can know that no 'terrorists' tried to attack anyone on American Independence Day, just like the terrorism that unaccountably failed to happen for Samhain (remember? "Stay out of the malls on Halloween!"), for Rememberance Day (or whatever the American equivalent is), for Yule, etc etc etc.
Everyone said the Shrub was a warmonger....and look where America is...screaming 'Terrorism!' over so many things they have conveniently ignored in the past (or supported) while being glaringly blind to their own hypocrisy....