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I dont know whether to laugh or cry with this story.
Its literally 5:43 am (sunday early morning in Argentina) and just came back from the street.
It was about 5 am and I was on the street waiting for a friend in a corner. This friend always asks me to go pick him up at the same corner because he feels safer. I waited ,waited and waited and he never showed up.
Suddenly, a police van came with two male officers ( both young ) but only one of them talked to me.
He asked me what I was doing there. I told him I was waiting for a friend. He didnt believe me. Long story short:
The police officer believed I was a transvestite and that I was...well... having sex for money. I told the guy A THOUSAND times that he was wrong and he was like
"You dont need to lie to me, if you are working thats ok.. just let me know what you're doing and I will go... If you keep denying that you're working I am gonna have to take you with me to the police station and call your family".
I did not know what to do nor to say. He kept pushing me to say that.
But that does not finish there... I asked the officer " Do I look like I am a transvestite? This is not even women clothing " and he said " Well, have you looked at yourself? I dont dress like that, my co-worker does not dress like that either, he does not dress like that (he pointed at a guy who was walking by). That does not look like men clothing".
I was wearing a men jacket I bought at Zara (it even says ZARA MEN on the inside for Gods sake!!!) , skinny jeans, boots and loose hair as usual.
One more thing (and I dont know whether the guy was being funny or he wanted to have a sexual approach with me ) , he asked me: So, your real name is David. What is your artistic name? If you tell me what your artistic name is I can call you "baby", "honey" or treat you like a female.
I swear he said that!! Guys, I cant even believe what I went through. I was just standing on the corner, waiting for a friend. Nothing else... and he thought I was a transvestite and that I was getting paid for sex!!!! WTF??
At the end, I HAD to say that I was working and getting paid for sex. I WAS FORCED BY THE SITUATION TO SAY THAT I WAS A TRANSVESTITE GETTING PAID FOR SEX. If i hadnt said that, they would have taken me with them to the police station and call my parents (who were sleeping at that time, of course).
This is unbelievable . I know that I am not a super macho guy, I might have some feminine features (I have been told that many times) and many times I have been mistaken for a girl by many people, but being in a situation like this with the police ... I dont know whether to cry or laugh. It was humiliating, embarrassing..!!
I am seriously considering on cutting my hair short. This has never happened to me before when I was short haired.
Nooo, don't do this.
Such thing happened to me in 2002, when I was with a friend near a football stadium here in Sofia. 4 male policeman asked us "What are you doing"? They forced us to confess that we own drugs. Of course they did'n find anything. After that thay tryed to push us confess we were something more than boyfriends, we refused that (I personally don't think that this was wrong, but we did't, it's legal and we have right if we want).
They called us "girls", "transitives"...
2 days later our parents were at the police station and they were very polite and excused us thousend times. They did't want further problems, because I know THREE very good lawyers!
Those years such things happened to my friends even with short hair. Today things are better here. There are a few exceptions - some people look strange but my look and personal life is not thir own business...
So don't cut it! That's you and you don't live in North Korea!!!
Hi David,
First of all I'm very sorry to hear of what happened to you which in reality should never have occurred.My first thought after reading of your encounter with the police would be to file a harassment lawsuit against the department as clearly that is what occurred here.Of course I don't know the laws in your country plus its your word against theirs and there were at least two of them.Frankly I never would have admitted what they wanted you to say because its not the truth.You'd have been better off going to the station and raise hell once your parents ultimately arrived because what they did to you was BS.I tell you if cops can get away with this the public will loose respect for the force and there are more civilians than cops who could turn against them at some point.There is no excuse what they put you though as you original answer should have been the end of it.Finally please don't cut your hair as that would only give them satisfaction for what they did to you and they certainly don't deserve that satisfaction.
Mârk
I concur. Don't cut your hair.
At the same time, in that kind of situation, I would have tied my hair back and hidden the tail in the hood of a hoodie or inside a coat collar.
I have never been to Argentina, but I suspect there must be remnants of the old extreme right-wing junta regime. I bet the Argentinian police, like in many other countries, can be bastards!
I agree with standing up for our identity and tastes of appearance, but we do need to avoid provocation unless we want to make ourselves martyrs. It's always risky to be out at night in town, even if you're in a car!
Just take time to get over it, and observe the "two-week" rule before even thinking about cutting your hair!
Good luck,
Anthony
My blog
While I feel sorry for what you went through, I don't think it's worth cutting your hair over. I think those officers were abusing their power because they could. If you'd had short hair they'd probably have accused you of something else, perhaps even being a male prostitute! It's unfortunate, but some people get off on bullying other people.
Now that you've had some time to calm down and think, isn't the whole thing just a bit absurd? If it's just an isolated incident it really isn't worth cutting your hair over. No matter how you look there's likely to be some fool who will take issue with it. Just try to ignore them as much as possible. Why give them the satisfaction of having power over you?
Good luck! Just try to stay true to yourself.
--Dale
I'm sorry you went through that.
Were you waiting for this friend to give him a ride somewhere?
If so I'd read him the riot act and insist you pick him up elsewhere (like maybe his house).
Maybe this was an intersection where prostitutes frequent, maybe known prostites drive the same type of car you have. Whatever the reason the residents in the area may have been complaining loudly to the cops about prostitutes in the area (especially if there is a school/and or/kids in the area.)
Many cities have certain "red light" districts where this occurs.
In each city i've lived in i've learned where these districts
are to avoid them. One thing you don't want to do is even offer
then a ride somewhere. There have been numerous cases where
someone picked up a hitchhiker and the next thing they know they are under arrest for prostitution (or being a John and have your
face plastered on Tv.)
It's part of being street wise, knowing what areas to avoid in a
city, and whats actions attract the attention of police. Plus
you never know when someone is an undercover cop.
Finally I would suggest not cutting your hair. It probably would not have made a difference. If you had short hair they'd have still picked you up and you'd be arrested as a john.
I'm not a lawyer now do I play one on TV but you should not have
admitted to anything. Around here admitting to it would get you
on the sex offender registry.
This is in the US of A. YMMV.
Man, what happened to you really sucks.
There was likely a combination of factors that caused you to have been targeted. Maybe you were on a street where prostitutes often go at the hour you were there, and maybe almost no one else stays in one place at that hour. Add to that, you are young and they thought you were sexually attractive. Hey, there's nothing wrong with being attractive!
It is very difficult for transgender people to get work. Quite a few of them out of desperation resort to prostitution. Since mostly men seek out prostitutes, and most men are straight, they try to look like girls. They may not succeed well, but one way they can tilt that perception in their favor is to grow long hair. We all know the frustration that we or some of our longhaired brethren suffer by sometimes being mistaken as female, albeit not accompanied by a streetwalker mislabeling as well.
You are young, you have no facial hair, you are attractive, you do look male though, and you have long hair. Add that to being on a street where prostitutes go, being by yourself, and being stationary at an hour few others are out, and you've tilted the scales to looking like a good candidate for being checked out by the police.
I was stopped on the street once because they were looking for a suspect who had been seen on the block where I was, and the description of him given to the police was, "He has a beard." I thought I was being singled out because of my long hair, because to me, I had done nothing wrong. I was just walking down the street! Half an hour later I saw the suspect, and he had a red beard about two inches long. I have a white beard about a foot long.
It is legally not a good idea to admit to something you did not do. This could cause you to get punished, or to have a criminal record. It is better to spend a night in jail than end up labeled for life as a sex offender. If charges are ultimately dismissed, all you will have had is the inconvenience of having spent a few hours in jail, and that will not go on your record. The only time you should admit to having done something you did not do is after a lot of time has passed, and with a lawyer you have decided they have a good, although false, case against you, and the punishment will be less if you admit to it. The police cannot make that deal. All they will do is use what you say against you. Only lawyers and a judge can make such a deal.
You face two questions at this time. One is what can you do to lessen the chance that it will happen again. I certainly would not cut my hair over it. There are lots of other factors, mentioned above, which you can change. Just don't wait on a street where streetwalkers go. Go to a donut shop or somewhere and have yourself a coffee while you wait, rather than standing outside. Don't meet people at that strange hour, if you can do it at another time. And if your immediate plans don't make you care that you be particularly attractive, tone that down a bit. In other words, don't dress like you're trying to look available, if you don't care about being taken like that at the time.
The second question is whether you want to do anything in response to the event. Here in the U.S., we have an organization called the American Civil Liberties Union. They specialize in litigation when citizens have been mistreated by the government. You may have a similar group. If you use someone like that, you will likely not have to pay for lawyers. However, there will be a great cost of anxiety that all litigation brings on. Maybe you can accept that the cops made an honest mistake, as I did once I realized they had a poor description of that man's beard, and I was mistaken for him. Face it, the only people who never make mistakes at work are the unemployed. The issue is whether you can you buy it that it may have been an honest mistake.
May you find peace,
Bill
Or maybe it's a location where prostitutes hang out to drum up
business 24/7/365. Every city has a number of those locations,
and neighbors get very angry about it.
Add to that, you are young and they thought you were sexually attractive. Hey, there's nothing wrong with being attractive!
Add to that could this be a location where youths hang out
all night, make alot of noise, get drunk/high and throw beer bottles at passing cars?
I would note that the police know the area, they know where bus stops are, how often the buses run, and they will take notice if they see you there for a long period of time. Maybe they would
not have stopped you if you were waiting in your car? It also should be noted that it is the actions of local residents (read: complaints) that often drive the police actions.
I've had a number of relatives who were police and I wouldn't paint all police with such a broad brush. (I had one uncle who
was with the police for 42 years.)
Ultimately your only mistake may be to have a friend who doesn't know the area he lives in.
Eye witness descriptions are often very vague/wrong/deceiving.
How to avoid having his happen again? Find out where known
prostitutes hang out and avoid that area. And avoid picking
up hitch hikers in that area. And if your friend insists he has to be picked up there read him the riot act, either find another location to be picked up at or get used to riding the bus, taking a cab, or taking the subway. It's nice to give a friend
a ride but if he insists on being picked up at a location known for prostitution then you need to put your foot down. You can bet the police will be watching you. You may not be as luck the second time.
I would think really hard about whether you want to pursue this course. You complain too much and they'll target you even more.
Maybe the prudent course would be to let the incident pass,
learn from it, and take affirmative steps to avoid it in the future. But whatever you do, do not cut your hair.
Hi, Please do not cut your hair and I think you look very good and seen some of your pics here! Police officers harrass anyone for example I hear stories about they harrass homeless people, people of different races or sexual orientation. If someone is gay and aomeone harrasses them your not going to change your orientation due to that. Because that's who you are and you would be unhappy letting others control you. If this happened to me I would feel the same at first but I would realize I am not going to cut my hair and be a victim. I also feel they could have been looking to harrass someone and they usually choose someone different than they are to feel good about themselves. Again don't cut hair and don't let others make you a victim.
To be fair though the police get lots of complaints about
prostitution especially when it is in a neighborhood with schools,
lots of kids, and alot of nearby residents. You may look at as
harrasment, if you have kids who go to a nearby school it not harrasment, it is protecting your kids. If you had prostitutes standing in front of your house every night looking for business you would not be happy especially if you have kids.
That was terribly unfair behavior for a police officer, but I'm afraid that's reality no matter where you live. Cops hassle people who look unusual, particularly at certain places and times. I experienced some of that when I was younger, too. The solution was not to cut my hair, but to be more careful about where and when I hung out. Though it's unfair, the simple fact is that you are better off not being on the street at 5:00 AM or any place where police and other potentially problem-making people may be.
Being out late is something all young people do. The simple fact, though, is that it's best to be away from certain areas at certain times of the day.
Hi Dave
I'm so sorry to hear about this ..I agree with everyone else ..please don't cut your hair.
You may have to arrange a different place or time to meet your friend, maybe some place indoors... Sometimes some young officers try to act like hot shots and harass people who are doing nothing wrong....
Take care...peace... The Spaf Man
Definitely do not cut your hair over this. If you do then they
win plus you have worked too hard growing cool looking hair to
just cut it off.
If you were to consider changing anything because of this
experience it should be why are you on the street at 5 am?
Maybe better to slightly modify your nocturnal habits rather
than cut your hair.
David,
I, too, am sad to hear whay you had to go through. Maybe
the best thing is to chaulk it up to life's experience and
move on. Please wait at least two weeks before cutting any of your beautiful hair. Once it is cut, it is too late. I have done things on impulse and regretted my actions.
We like you as you are and the inspiration you give us.
white mane
Hi Dave,
Needless to say, I was very dismayed to read your story this morning! I can't really add much to what's already been said! Please don't cut your hair because of this my friend! You don't want to lower yourself to their level. However, I would probably not be in that particular area at that time again! Just keep being true to yourself and be careful of the idiots out there! You look awesome and that's all that matters! Long hair forever!
Ted
I can't really add anything to this either, Dave, other than to say how terrible I feel that this happened to you... Don't react to it, but rise above it - and have a chat with your friend about what happened to you because you were waiting for him on that corner... Also, realize that the streets are becoming more and more dangerous, especially at night - whether it is from something like this or from other people intent on harming or hurting someone - bad things seem to always happen just that time of night...
Be strong.
Fitz
Thanks everyone for your support on this issue.
I am feeling a lot better now and had time to process and think about this and will not cut my hair due to this incident.
I would like to clarify certain points though:
Being on the street at 5 am on a weekend , here in Argentina, is super normal for a young person. The nightlife here starts later than in the US. Clubs in general open at midnight, people head to them at about 2 or 3 am (nobody goes to a club as soon as it opens, is not well seen) and most people leave clubs at 7 or 8 am next morning (Way too different to the nightlife in many parts of the US and Europe where nightlife begins earlier and clubs are close by 3 or 4 am in some cases).
- The area where I was standing was 3 blocks away from my house. I mean, my own neighbourhood. And yes, we have three night clubs nearby, a few bars and several cabarets. This area is not really considered a Red Light district, but all neighbours here know that prostitution is common in this part of the city, and most of them dont care. Most argentineans dont get involved on topics that dont affect them. Some people will not call the 911 even if they see a thieve breaking into a neighbour’s house. Unfortunately , this is an attitude remaining from the last military dictatorship, where people used to see police officers and military men kidnapping civilians and they would not do anything. All they said was “ Well, if they are doing that there must be a reason”.
- The police officers really believed that I was a transvestite! I was wearing a nice jacket, skinny jeans (very tight jeans) and men boots. For them, my clothing was considered “girly”. Besides, the fact of having long hair did not help. Last week I was at a club and was going to the bathroom. The ladies and the men’s bathroom is one next to the other, in the middle, a security guy. I headed into the Men’s bathroom and he stopped me and said “You cant go there, girls go that way!” (and he pointed at the ladies bathroom). I was SO DRUNK that I did not even care and got into the ladies bathroom (lol). The ladies inside did not even notice that I was a guy. This has happened to me several times in my city and I was like “ok, probably people here are too ignorant” until this happened to me as well in a few clubs in London a few weeks ago. Some people consider me and my look as rather more androgynous than male or female. I dont know whether thats true or not, it really depends on the person’s eye and point of view.
I will definitely not file a report on those two police officers. Number one reason : they are police officers assigned to work in the area where I live and the reason number two is : I dont think there is any place where I can file a complaint against them other than the police station where they happened to work, sad isnt it?.
I'm very happy to hear this from you. You really should not change anything because of narrow minded people. Not only your hair length.
I believe, that you'll feel better after a couple of days. As far as I know Argentina is an awesome country with awesome people. I also know some football players who are also longhairs from your country and are very professional. This should not be an issue.
Yes, you have long hair - that's you, that's your style. It's impossible everyone to like you, even with short hair.
Your hair looks awesome! Don't cut it because of jealous people!
I'm sorry for the spelling mistakes in my previous post, but this really got me angry...
Here you can see people to support you. I also support you!
Greetings from Sofia :)
I'm really sorry that you were mistreated like that David, I really am. I would have posted earlier but it had been a while since I came so I didn't notice. I think you should file a report. Aren't those "fiscalia" stands in public places or subway stations meant to be for reporting cases of abuse? I don't know, it's up to you but by now I'm very familiar with the lack of seriousness that can be encountered around Argentina. Still I think those "boludos" really deserve to get what they have coming.
About the late night, one of the things I REALLY love about Argentina. Being a night person I like being able to find stuff open and things to do at 4 am. Other than NY and Vegas I can't think of any other place where this is possible.
Hi Giacco! Thanks for posting.
I am curious , are you also from Argentina ? Or probably Italian? You look like Italian but you could also be Argentinean haha.
I have been mistaken for girls many times but never been through a situation where the Police thinks I am a transvestite prostitute and forced me to declare that I was doing something that I wasnt actually doing. I did not know whether to cry, laugh or think they had other "intentions" with me. . If you know what I mean.
Yes. I absolutely LOVE Argentina's night life. I am a person who loves the night better than day. I even work during the afternoon and arrive home by night, so after having dinner I stay up late watching tv, etc. If its a weekend I go out. And yes, I have been to several places in the world (US, Europa, other latin american countries) and found just a very few places where you could do things late at night.
Dave,
My nickname does ring an Italian way (I was learning Italian 12 years ago when I chose it). I could also blend in very well here (visually speaking) at least until I open my mouth. I'm neither Italian nor Argentine, I moved to Buenos Aires nearly a year ago (from TX) for some deep personal reasons and a need for change. I really fell in love with the city when I visited in 2008 and decided to try a fresh start here for a while at least.
Yes, I did not know whether you were Italian or Argentinean. You have some mediterranean look haha.
I also live in Buenos Aires! Do you still live here? Its great to find a member from this website who also lives where I live. You know, this site is not really visited by Argentineans I believe.
Yeah, I'm still in Argentina. I really like some things. The late nights and how long hair friendly it generally seems to be. It's true what you say, I think it might be a cultural thing. People seem to be a lot less research oriented around here. You seem to be quite an exception.
That's awesome! I'm glad you liked the country.
Hit me up if one day you wanna meet up and talk about hair..! hahaha
Sure, tbat would be great. Send me a private message by clicking on my nickname. It should somehow let you email me.
Looking back on it, you'd be better of laughing (though I'd be a bit PO'd at the friend not showing up).
This classic 1970's song by artist Dr John (and fellow longhair) seems like it was written just for your situation. It's the first thing that popped in to my head after reading your post. Have a listen and follow along with the lyrics. They're a little silly, but that's the whole point, finding the absurdity in your situation.
PS A lot of young men with long hair tend to look androgynous; in time as you mature, stronger masculine features will take over. Plus, I think you'd really regret cutting your hair, some of the longhair 'old guard' could tell you the sacrifices they made to stay true to an innate calling to be a longhair. The stereotypes of men with long hair being druggies, stoners, transvestites, male prostitutes, criminals, felons, etc, etc, etc. sadly still exists even though it's 2014. And some LE's still stick to those stereotypes. As for how you dressed, lot's of young men with buzz and crew cuts dress like you. Cops were just acting on a preconceived notion, and you became a scapegoat. Glad you read the others post and didn't cut your hair.
Dr John Right - Right Place Wrong Time (Lyrics)
Which for me raises the question could your so called "friend" have been trying to set you up? Could he have foreseen this
happening to you? (Read: pratical joke?)
Not necssarily. I'm 59, only 5'9" and rather slight in build.
Personally, I wouldn't have done that. Now, the police will spread the word to other officers that you are a confessed male prostitute and they will treat you accordingly. Although you were tired and probably the worse for wear after a night out, I think it would have been better to text your friend and parents to warn them what had happened and simply gone to the police station.
Your experience was truly shitty but, if it's any consolation, insane bigotry is alive and well in England too - especially in rural areas. My g/friend and I dropped in at a village pub after a country walk only yesterday. We sat near a group of older men and one of them called over to me: "What are you dressed as?"
Huh? I looked down at what I was wearing: black hoodie over a black T-shirt, with my usual black skinny jeans (like yours, they are skintight) and Converse trainers. His query seemed in just good-natured fun so I just shrugged and replied: "I'm dressed as me. Why, what are YOU dressed as?"
He reddened slightly and stated proudly that he was a retired member of the community. Since I was dressed in black, he smugly asked me if I was a Mormon.
I affected surprise and asked him how he knew. I expanded that in fact I was a mixture of both Mormon and Jehovah's Witness.
He gulped and grew serious. "Oh," he stammered. "Are you really?"
I grinned, "Err, noooo!" His mates burst out laughing at the man at that stage and pointed out that I was taking the piss. A bit less smug by now, the man blurted that I must be a Black Sabbath fan.
I shook my head and suggested he probably hadn't heard of the bands I am into. I named a few and he reddened even more while his mates ribbed him about his age, that he was out of touch with modern music.
Later, after me returning from the bog, my g/friend told me she had overheard the man say a few things while I was gone and that he was "not a very nice person". Apparently incensed by my rebuff of his intended put-down, the man had launched into a whispered rant to his mates about how young men had long hair these days and dressed like girls. This was accompanied by homophobic slurs. I gather some of his mates quietly distanced themselves from him after that.
There were at least two other young dudes with long hair at the pub, one of whom was a staff member at the carvery. But what seems to have stirred the homophobe into potential apoplexy was the fact that I not only had long hair but that my long hair was accompanied by skinny jeans. Undeterred by the minor detail that I was with my g/friend, he was apparently convinced that any guy sporting a combination of long hair and skinny jeans must be gay - or verging on it - and that such depraved people were destined to lead society into the yawning abyss of hell.
Sadly, homophobic bigots exist in every sphere of life. It's even worse when you encounter them in the police and I sincerely sympathise with your shocking experience. But don't even think of cutting your hair - it signals that the bigots have won.
Damon
----------------------------------------
I sure hope you don't encounter any further trouble, as Damon alluded to, by your forced confession to the police. I think each of us can only imagine what your feelings and the situation must've been like for you, for you to decide to confess something that was not true about you. Each of us carry our notions of the culture and the environment we live in... Argentina is different from Britain and different from the United States... I have only lived in central New York about 5 hours north of New York City - while some day this is a liberal area, there are still cultural differences and prejudices with exist - some undercover and some are blatant. Even within countries as large as ours, various mindsets and beliefs exist -
I am glad you made it through this awful time - I am appreciative that you shared your story - and that others shared theirs - it is good, all the way around to understand one another and how we live.
I was in Georgetown, Panang, Malaysia a month ago awaiting a van pick-up at 5:00 in the morning going to an island on the northeast side of Malaysia. Walking down an empty street in the dark appeared a skinny guy with hair down to mid back. My wife identified this person as a likely transvestite looking for work this early in the morning. A female prostitute followed behind. We have seen other female prostitutes early in the morning in large cities in Asia. Interesting to see this in a Muslim country.
But then at KL Airport, Kuala Lumpur, a guy past us by in a wig in a tee-shirt labelled 'transvestite". Lots of smiles from the girls around us.
Sounds like there was a 'clamp down' on this behavior in Argentina. Offensive to others that will have nothing to do with this. Making long hair vulnerable with the police that early in the morning. The police here in the U.S. can't apprehend someone like this without a definite case to proceed with. Best to fight it without having to admit to such a charge. In other countries, 100 rupees or more will get you off.
But don't cut your hair over this.
Don
Hi Dave,
I'm so sorry to hear about your ordeal. But, also realize that life in a big city -- ANY big city -- is going to be similar in experience, especially if you are in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time...
"Hanging out" super-late at night (AKA super-early in the morning, but before any daylight has arrived) is a tricky thing. I used to go to dance clubs as a regular thing for me on weekends, staying out as late as I could (I was quite the "dance-aholic" in my day). Salsa clubs, C&W bars, Swing dance events -- whether gay or strait, it was the music and dancing that I loved! But, I had to still be careful, had to remain aware of my surroundings, especially whenever I stayed out considerably later than midnight.
Take my advise, from an old dance-aholic geezer: be careful, stay aware, don't "hang out" on any city street corner for too long... Yes, you might be as innocent "as the driven snow" (a saying we have here up North - LOL); but the police, as well as others, may not be able to think so.
My best to you!!
- Ken in San Francisco
Also before you venture out into the big city learn the areas to
avoid at all cost, and the areas to extra cautious in. And realize that any of the city will have certain pitfalls to avoid.
Especially if you are out at 5am. The police are going to take
notice of who is out at that time of night, Some cities never sleep (NYC), but there are others that have curfews and the police will take notice if you're out past 10pm or 2am depending on your age.
It should be noted that between underage drinking, creating problems in the neighborhood, and doing things like setting fires
and breaking and entering the police are ever mindful of
those who are out late into the wee hours of the morning. And at the age of 59 and having lived in the big city for many
years I can't blame them. There is much mischief that goes on
cities at night.
So my advice if you are going to enjoy life in the wee hours
of the morning do it in carefully chosen locations.
I would point out that at the age of 59 IMHO one of the worst moves made in the US of A was to raise the drinking age to 21.
Youth 18-21 didn't stop drinking, they just did it in their
car, dorm room, apartment or on the street. If the age had remained at 18 those youth would be drinking in bars where
the bartenders are trained in handling drinkers. There is also the old arguement that if you're old enough to go to war (at 18) you're also old enough to drink.
I don't know if you're doing any of these things but be aware the police are on the lookout for any potential trouble. And in every city i've lived there are plenty of sources for trouble that the police have to deal with. So bear that in mind when
you stop out the door for a night of whatever you're going to do.
Thanks for your tips guys.- Bad thing is, I have been living in this city for the last 25 years haha (ever since I was born). In fact, this happened to me in my own neighbourhood.
The city where I live is a city that never sleeps. People go shop for candy at 3 or 4 am. It's so common. I have been hanging out super late at night and this is the very 1st time this happens to me.
Guys, he's right. I was shocked when I first saw it but it's not uncommon to see people of all sorts out ALL NIGHT LONG. Even kids are seen eating out at 1 or 2 am and it's like nothing.
You are the first person who has brought this out in the open,that I know of, as I've always felt the same way.I know how destructive drinking can be and of course its the politically correct thing to do putting on those restrictions.However being 18 means you are legally an adult who can as you mentioned go to war,sign contracts,vote, and so forth.So if you've reach full adulthood what's the deal about waiting to 21 to legally drink?Might as well then make being a full fledged adult 21 to go along with it.I've heard they are even talking up making buying smokes the same way.Again I know these are bad vices but make up your mind then when a minor becomes an adult once an for all.Cheers
Mârk
I came to this opinion since I attended college in the 70s/80s when the drinking age was raised. We ran the beer bashes at college and did lots of drinking ourselves. When the age was raised the drinking did not stop, it continued big time. It just moved out of bars into someones car, in their house/apartment/dorm room/etc.
i would also point out even though the drinking age is 21 there are many youths who also drink (Some as young as 10 or 12).
Massachusetts raised the age to 20 in 1979, 21 in 1984.
I'm sure when the age was first raised many still got their fix but just did it in private like you mentioned.Where I live in NJ I had to wait until age 19 which was their stepping stone before eventually raising it to 21.Cheers
Mârk
I, too, witnessed the lowering of the drinking age to 18 and then the putting it back to 21. It was at the height of the Viet Nam War, and with the draft, many men were being expected to fight in the military while being told they weren't mature enough to drink. This didn't set well with enough of the populace that the drinking age was lowered. The voting age was lowered at the same time and for the same reason.
Voting by guys under 21 didn't cause any problems, but that did not turn out to be the case for drinking. Death of youth on our highways was soaring. Yes, images of dead youth in the rice paddies of Viet Nam was revolting, but images of dead youth on our highways also were. A strong consensus became to raise the age to drink back to 21. It was done.
All ages such as to drink, to smoke, to get tattooed, to drive, to work, to enter the Army, to leave home and be on your own, etc., are arbitrary. A line has to be drawn somewhere. Reality is that young people are mature enough to do different tasks at different ages. Humans aren't babies in all ways one day before their eighteenth birthday and then totally grown up in all ways the next day.
Personally, I feel drug use laws should be liberal for adults, but that people under age 21 aren't mature enough to handle it. Also, research has shown that permanent changes to youths' brains can occur if they use drugs. This has been shown to be the case for alcohol, marijuana, and nicotine. Other drugs are also likely candidates.
Youth should be protected from making unchangeable decisions which they may regret later. I don't feel circumcision or tattooing should be allowed on anyone under 18. Operations to "correct" intersex people should not be done until the individual is old enough to know what his gender identity is going to be, but because those operations are more effective if done before puberty, they shouldn't wait for age 18. Circumcision and tattooing can wait.
On this site we've learned that longhaired identity arises a long time before a guy is 18. The same can be said for sexual orientation. Forcing a guy to wait until age 18 to pursue those identities can turn out to be very harmful. California recently passed a law prohibiting counseling professionals from trying to change the sexual orientation of people under age 18.
Although I support the right of citizens to bear arms, I personally feel the age limit for that should be about age 25. Too many of our young people are killing each other, and that is one of our nation's greatest tragedies.
As a man who was abused as a child, I strongly support the rights of youth. Supporting youth though extends to protecting youth against themselves. We don't let three-year-olds wander out into the street. A six-year-old should be free to walk around his neighborhood because he's old enough to handle it. Different ages should apply to different tasks.
Bill
Since i'm 59 years old and still have long hair many would say
that i'm still not grown up. So yeah, i'm 59 and still refuse to grow up. Especially if growing up means cutting my hair.
Hi Bill,
Your points are well taken but if that's the case then legal adulthood should be raised to 21 which will allow parents to continue to declare their kids as dependents for another three years but then the government will be loosing money!I guess what I'm saying here is its all or nothing.Might as well let kids fully mature before indulging in any adult activities then.Cheers
Mârk
Cops are clueless. It's about time they quit requiring cops to have short hair. We are in the same situation as black people used to be in when there were no black cops. This means that eliminating hair regulations for cops is a civil rights issue. How can we trust them when none of them look like us? I don't.
No they are not. I've had a number of relatives who were cops.
They are not clueless.
I would also mention that a number of cops enter the profession with a military bacbground. (All of my uncles who were cops previously served in the military.)
More than likely the short hair edict comes from top management.
I would also refer you other pots that i've posted in this thread regarding cops being driven by residents complaints.
There are alot of good cops out there, lets not bash all cops.