new thread
I've been reading a lot of the posts on discrimination on longhair men. And I'm more or less concerned with how it's going to effect my career in the future. But I'm only 21 years old and in college, so I'd really appreciate any advice from any experienced longhairs out there.
Thanks.
Though I'm a heterosexual, I've always wanted to have long hair and admired long hair on men. I've been growing long hair since 16. My parents were cool about it, because they know I'm not gay and I don't do anything that could upset them. And in college, I never experienced a problem with having long hair (since so many guys seem to have it anyways.) NOBODY, from frat brothers to girlfriends has ever had a problem with it.
Like Lee Rax's concerns in the bulletin board.( see Re:Calm down by Jim/Lee Rax) I plan on being a lawyer, but I'm afraid that I won't be accepted into the mainstream. Unfortunately, as much as I love having long hair and long hair on men, when it comes to having a job, I know I will probably give in to cutting my hair. Fellow longhairs, Are Longhairs really badly discriminated against in the workplace????
I've worked in a law firm as part of a year-long internship project. And it was really a stuffy, intense atmosphere. When I first worked there, they asked to cut it, but I didn't, and that was that. The lawyers were unfriendly and uncommunicative. But they were jumping all over me to find out who I'm going out with or what kind of social life I have---all because of the length of my hair(I learned that fact from a co-worker.) I think that maybe if I had short-hair I would've been appreciated for my abilities. It felt like the myth that a big-breasted woman must be dumb or something. I think that if I have short hair rather than long hair, I won't stand out from the crowd because let's face it, long hair men are very unlikely to climb up the very top of the professional ladder, and maybe I could do the "one" but I think I could get there a lot more quickly if I had my hair short.
Now don't be upset, I'm still young and my views will probably change.In a perfect world, I would never consider cutting my hair. And after reading up on many posts, I realized that most of you are TRUE LONGHAIR. Who are just being yourselves, regardless of what others might think.
1)In a professional job search, if I arrive with long hair. Am I really selling myself short?
2)If I get to a certain position of power and I wish to grow long hai from that point onr, will there be any obstacles? ( But then again, I will crave for more power, and I will have to answer to my superior)
3) (almost the same as #2) When I'm in a job where I have limited power, can I grow long hair on the job?
This is another question for men who have grown long hair and cut it short later. Did you feel regret? Did you feel envious of other men?
Did it get you where you wanted?
MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION:
maybe I can be dissuaded from cutting long hair if I knew there were successful longhair professionals, but who knows if they've taken a step back just to get two steps forward?
Sorry for rambling on. Any comment or true life tales would be appreciated.
in the workplace????
I think I was denied jobs because of my hairlength, but those jobs
weren't jobs I really cared much about, so I didn't get haircuts for
them.
Was it a big, corporate law firm? You might find a more accepting,
less stuffy atmosphere in a smaller law firm.
Many of them are unfriendly to people they don't work closely with.
Your hair length might not be the main reason for the lawyers'
unfriendliness.
That depends on the individual firm. Aparently, it didn't hurt Victor
with Dell, but I'm not sure if he would be in the same situation with
IBM. This also answers questions 2) and 3).
No.
No.
Yes. I got a job soon after the haircut, but I started growing my
hair out. I don't doubt that I was denied job advances due to my
increasing hair length, but I didn't mind since I didn't like the job
soon after working in it. I still have no regrets about getting the
haircut at the time because the job was a good experience.
As a longhair, it may make finding a professional job harder, but
there are professional longhaired men. If I were you, I wouldn't cut
your hair if you don't want to when beginning your job search, unless
you really want to put your prospective job over your hair, and you
think getting a haircut will help.
I find it curious that you associate long hair on a man with the assumption that long-haired men are probably also gay.
In most workplaces yes, but that's slowly, but surely, changing as the times progress.
It depends on how conservative whatever law firm you join is about the length of the hair on male employees.
Likely so.
See answer to #1.
Tremendously. I felt like a geek for nearly a month, before I got used to having short hair again. When I made the decision to grow it out again, I vowed to myself that I would never cut it again unless there was absolutely, positively, no other choice. I've been lucky ever since. I'm an account Supervisor in the credit office for a major department store, have worked their for two years, and have VERY long hair. They didn't have a problem with it during the interview, and they've never had a problem with it since (this, of course, can be attributed to the fact that all of our communications with customers are over the phone). Honestly, though, I plan on staying with the company only as long as it's going to take me to become successful enough as a writer to quit this job and stay at home to write full time.
On occasion.
I can't really answer this, as I'm not yet where I want to be, and where I want to be I won't be working for anyone but myself. All of my income is going to depend solely upon the success of my writing (and any movies I make).
(For a sample of my work, provided you're interested, click on the link below)
When my aunt died in the Ozarks, one of the two lawyers in her town who handled her estate had brown curly hair down to his lower back. He kept it in a tail while at work, and as half owner in the firm, I'd bet no one at work hassled him about it!
If he can pull that off in a small conservative town, which means he must be pleasing most clients, you should be able to do the same, and anywhere. One good thing about being a lawyer is that, compared to many occupations, it's not that hard to go to work for yourself. By doing so you can get unreasonable bosses out of your life, leaving only clients to worry about. If you do a good job for them, most clients aren't going to care.
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You've already read my spirited exchange with LeeRax (who has become a friend as a result of our debate), so you already know that I'm a libertarian on this subject. People can do what they want, recognizing that they will be held responsible for the consequences of their choices.
I think the issue you raise is interesting but your questions are impossibly subjective. So much depends on the type of workplace, the length of your hair, the terms under which you were hired, how your long hair would affect your ability to be promoted, how much power you could achieve despite having long hair, etc. etc. etc.
Remember also that you're preaching to the choir here. Anyone here who has succeeded professionally without regard to the length of his hair is more than likely working in an environment where individuality is tolerated and the specifics of one's personal appearance are not particularly important. I'd be very surprised to know that anyone here has succeeded by openly defying or subverting the culture of his particular place of employment or industry or profession. That approach very seldom works in real life.
As animals we're hard-wired to distinguish between friend and foe, dinner and diner, "us" and "them" -- that's why appearances matter so much. (I'm almost, but not quite, prepared to argue that the value we place on appearances is one of our most "natural" characteristics -- but that's for another debate....)
Generally speaking, one cannot simultaneously participate fully in a culture and selectively reject its basic tenets. "Community" is by definition a package deal -- you buy the terms of the package or your don't participate. To butcher an old saying, you cannot refuse to look, walk or quack like a duck and expect to be accepted as a duck.
If I were a prospective or current employer and knew by your appearance that you weren't willing to accept the terms of a dress code, I'd also wonder what else you weren't willing to do and whether I could really trust you to participate successfully in the culture of my particular workplace or industry or profession. Ultimately that's the real issue -- it's not about hair but about participating in the culture.
I hope you're not planning your job-search strategy based on the information you get here. To get a more accurate feel for how you'd be received in the legal profession as a long-haired would-be attorney, you should pose your questions to a group of attorneys.
You were right,sir, my post was impossibly subjective. Now I'll be more detailed about answering some of the questions you asked.
1). TYPE OF WORKPLACE:
It has a lot to do with my background, I'm a city boy and I'm only considering working for firms in NYC, L.A, Boston, or Chicago..etc
Most of them I imagine will be conservative.
2). LENGTH OF MY HAIR:
As of now, it is mid-back.(any length suggestions for work?)
3). WOULD LONGHAIR EFFECT ABILITY TO BE PROMOTED:
Now that's a question I don't even have the faintest idea over.
you know, this is off the record, but I just wonder why having long hair is really un-"mainstream" I JUST know that there will be so many obstacles if I have long hair, But if I cut it and sport a different look, like putting highlights in it, or dress a bit unorthodox like wearing funky designer shirts or ties to work(like some suit ads from GQ). Showing off my youth. No one will think that I'm not mainstream, they just think that I'm "creative".Now what's up with that!
For what it's worth, I'm acquainted with the legal profession in San Francisco (that notorious hot-bed of individuality) and find it to be generally white-collar and old-school.
That depends so much on the particular firm. In the firms I'm acquainted with, none of the men have long hair. Given their clientele (health care), long hair would be perceived negatively.
Me neither. Assuming that you're talking about growing your hair after being hired with short hair, unless you've made partner, which confers some security, I'd say trying to subvert or defy the culture this way would be detrimental.
Every culture is different. My completely off-the-cuff guess about the legal profession is that long hair suggests youth and unpredictability -- not positive qualities to clients who seek experience and reliability from their legal counsel. On the other hand, in high tech long hair suggests thinking outside the box, which is how that profession evolved.
The example of clothing is probably more useful to this discussion because it's less loaded for an audience of long-hair enthusiasts. However, I'd have to say that expressing yourself through clothing would be just as problematic if it went decidedly against the grain of the culture. In law, anyway, youthful creativity as expressed through clothing is less highly valued than youthful endurance (are you ready for 90-hour weeks?) or a youthful desire to get ahead.
Remember, particularly in the legal profession, conformity is important. They're all gladiators out there and have to show up looking the part to get anywhere. Your future boss will hire you because you show promise as a successful gladiator -- and he or she needs to see that you understand and respect this fact. (And if you're going to represent someone in front of a jury, your client's going to want that, too. In a former job we specifically did not assign cases to one particularly brilliant attorney who was also a notorious slob -- his appearance really interfered with his effectiveness before a jury. I know it affected his career.) That's why there may be less room for individual expression in appearance than in other professions (by contrast, in this profession, brilliance, tenacity and a creative mind are forms of individuality that can bring you rich rewards).
Best of luck to you, by the way. The only way these norms change is by being challenged. The world needs more iconoclasts, even if it doesn't know it yet.
I can't recommend making yourself a sacrificial lamb, but it can't hurt to push the envelope so long as you understand that it may hold consequences you don't like. I assume you're still in school -- perhaps a summer internship will give you a better feel for the culture and your chances as a funky long-haired attorney. Or perhaps you can find a discete way to explore this issue when firms send recruiters to campus.
What's the worst that could happen? You don't get the job you want, so you cut your hair and try again. Then at least you'll know whether its your hair or your smarts. Of all the obstacles to face in life, this one is pretty survivable, I'd say. (You should be thankful you don't have to overcome prejudice based on your race or gender or a disability or sexual orientation. Then you'd really know how unaccommodating the world can be.)
Jim
Thank you sir, you've offered some great advice. I knew there were no definite answer for this sort of thing. I was just looking for feedback. I got a lot more than I bargained for. And that goes to rest of you too, you've all given me a lot of sophisticated analysis.
Right now, I'm almost graduating from college, and ready to enter law school. And I know that when I'm young, I can still have some fun. Act my age and LOOK my age. School is competitive but not half as cutthroat as the workplace. I mean, I want a high-profile job in a big city. I gotta exchange something else for it. I've had fun with my long hair for a couple of years now. It's time to let it go...and move on.
And besides, who says I have to cut it in law school. I'll cut it WHEN I GET A JOB!!
That seems like a much more satisfying approach. Besides, who knows where you'll be when it's time to find a job?
At the risk of sounding like an old fogey -- I'm really not that old -- you'll look back on this time in your life and smile. I'll leave it at that.
I agree, wholeheartedly. It always disturbs me when people request answers to questions of this nature that no one here could ever possibly provide.
Here's a list of guide answers to follow for anyone else considering asking the following questions:
"Will I be accepted at my job if I grow my hair?"
Maybe. Maybe not.
"Will I feel any pressure from peers to cut it if I grow it?
Maybe. Maybe not.
"If I grow it, will I like it?"
Maybe. Maybe not.
"As it gets longer, will I be made fun of for looking like a woman?"
Maybe. Maybe not.
"Will my self-esteem improve if I grow my hair out?"
Maybe. Maybe not.
"Will I get dates if I grow my hair?
Maybe. Maybe not..
"Will my hair look good or better with long hair?"
Maybe. Maybe not.
This list could go on indefinately, but those of you with questions like these should get the point. ;)
If there are any short-haired men lurking about who feel compelled to ask whether you should grow your hair, the most predominant answer you're going to get from THIS board should be obvious, considering the nature of the web site, and considered before posting your question: "Yes!"
Long hair feels great, is a joy to have, and is well-worth the time and effort to grow!
Great answer.
If there were not leaders who set trends there would never be any change in a culture. There are many individual preferences on which we may differ, and there are always narroiw minded people who will discriminate.
It seems to me that there is essentially no discrimination against long hair in the educated professions. If hair is clean and in some manner neat - in some manner groomed to show intentionality rather than carelessness it is very likely to be accepted.
For everyone who may discriminate against you because of your loong hair there is someone else who may give you an advantage because they admire your individual self expression. Go for what you want.
JHim
Ron Kurby is one of this countries most famous attorneys and he has both long hair and a beard. He practices law in New York City. I just thought that you should be aware of this fact.
I don't know about him. I'm familiar with criminal defense attorney Tony Serra, who sports a long gray ponytail. (He was the basis for the main character in a movie starring James Woods -- I forget the name of it).
That's exactly the type of people I'd like to feature here on occasion. If you or anyone else knows how to contact him, I'd like to get pictures and ask a few questions.
First off, I think age helps. Your more likely to get grief about long hair as a young whipper snapper. As Bill and a couple others have pointed out, gray hair helps.
Interesting... The hairstyle I've most heard associated with gays is the really short style -- I'm talking crew cut-like lengths.
Some are and some aren't. It depends upon the workplace as well as the longhair.
That may or may not be true. There are a lot of people at the top with long hair. The local guy here is known as Lord British (Richard Garriot), president of Origin Systems, the computer game company that makes Ultima and Wing Commander, among others. Among the more notorious things he does is to create a huge full contact party for Halloween. This event is traditionally free, and people camp out near his estate for days in hopes of being let in (see link below for more info). Anyway, last I heard, he had pretty long hair. Most of the pictures you see of him, though, don't show his hair. In fact, I suppose he may have cut it off. If anyone knows for sure, let me know.
Depends. Is potentially losing a job you wouldn't have wanted anyway selling yourself short? My position here is that the whole purpose of a job is to allow you to be able to maintain the kind of lifestyle you prefer. The goal really ought to be attaining that life style. Too many people look at getting a high paying job as the ultimate success. If getting a high paying job means sacrificing something precious, it may not be worth it.
I at one point cut my hair for a job interview. When I found out the husband of my future manager himself had 3 foot long hair, I decided never again to cut my hair for a job interview.
Again, whatever that means.... There have been posts in the past from professionals, including a pediatrician, dentist, and, of course, computer people (including myself) who kept their hair long.
I think you are the best person to assess your situation. For me, early in my career, the thing that held me back was my age, not my hair length. If you are good at what you do, your reputation will preceed you, and then it won't matter about your hair. Look at Einstein, for example.
I second this position. There are too many factors that can play into an employer's decision to hire or not to hire you; one of those, of course, being first impressions of physical appearance. As the interview progresses, however, the interviewer is given a guided tour of the person behind the proverbial door. Because there is absolutely no way to know what an employer is going to think, nor is there any way to know, positively, the reason(s) behind any decision not to hire you, the question of how far one should go to present themselves professionally becomes that much more important. And, as the job market becomes increasingly more accomodating to men with long hair, knowing what kinds of jobs are likely to be ok with it what kinds of jobs are likely not to be ok with it becomes equally questionable.
In the end, we are faced with only two questions to answer before going to any interview: cut it, or not? Is the risk of not being hired worth it?
Now, should the employer have a problem with the hair, they do have the prerogative to bring it up. The financial well-being of my family is important enough to me that, if I were to be faced with the prospect of having to cut my hair (if asked to do so by the employer) if it meant landing a better paying job than the one I have now (providing the one I'm in becomes jeapordized), I would likely do so, but not until after discussing the issue with my wife and we've both agreed the job would be beneficial enough to do so.
I'd also like to note that the economy can play a HUGE role in how accepting the job market is of individual expression. As long as the economy remains relatively strong, and the unemployment rate is low, employers are going to be less stringent on who they hire as the possibilty of finding a good employee is more difficult given the smaller pool of applicants. Likewise, if the economy is low and the unemployment rate high, employers are going to be more selective of what kind of person they want to hire, and physical appearance will become an even greater factor in one's ability to find a job. Unfortunately, with as often as the economy has a tendency to fluctuate, even if a man is able to land a job despite the length of his hair, there's still no guarantee that he'll be able to keep his hair while employeed as the employer's dress code could change.
Several weeks ago, for example, the dress code at my job went through a mild alteration. I was thankful to find out they hadn't added any limits to the length of hair on men. If they had, though, I would've cut my hair. My position there is too secure, and financially beneficial to my family, to not do it in a heartbeat (although I can't say I wouldn't go through a strong bout of depression afterward). To this date, in fact, there is no reference to men's hair anywhere in our dress code.