new thread
I doubt if you guys really want this on here, but those who want to help with humanitarian relief can donate to UNWRA. I gave a little. Not much, but I hope it helps.
I know some of you are not sympathetic. One of you just defriended me on FB, although I would say he saved me the trouble. I did call one of his friends a murderer, but he more or less asked for it. Said he was in Cast Lead and that I might as well call him a murderer, so I said "OK, you're a murderer".
IMHO if you don't care about human suffering you should cut your hair!
I will like to ask the moderators to please delete this, as taking this matter from Facebook to start another flame war and attacks on a personal level is really not a good idea.
I removed you from my friends list after you called my childhood friend a murderer, and showed you not only lack basic understanding og the reality in the are, but also basic conversation skills and respect to other human beings you are conversing with.
Again, please delete this topic, Bill, Jason and the rest.
They may also want to ponder on why you identified yourself, given that I didn't? No reply expected.
Beacuse it's a dirty, cowardly and less than friendly move you've pulled, both on Facebook and by dragging that unpleasantless here, making sure to name the incident in detail.
You are obviously seeking attention and are not aware of social norms.
Either way, removing you from my personal life was the best choice I've made all week. Friend.
Attention? No. Social norms? I think by not naming you I was observing a certain degree of propriety, but I'm not sure that observing proper etiquette is so important after the bombs begin to fall.
Thankyou for saving me the bother of deleting you on FaceBook.
It's a shame when two guys have a falling out over a world event happening far away from either of them, but it happens. About fifteen years ago I had a close overseas friend who right after 911 said all those people who died deserved it. Ouch! This was an irreconcilable difference that our friendship could not overcome, and it ended.
We all have multifaceted lives, and only some facets come out in a forum such as this, where we mostly share some interests. An attention-grabbing world event can drag other interests into the open, though, particularly on a site with no real purpose such as Facebook.
One problem I've noted with some friends is that "Google is the worlds largest collection of information, and Facebook is the world's largest collection of Too Much Information." Getting TMI from people you don't really know everything about can be deadly to a relationship, and Facebook is designed to suck as much TMI out of each of its users that it can get.
Too bad you guys have had the falling out.
Bill
WOW Bill, that's shocking to hear that somebody would say a thing like that, that's just horrible.
Similarly, the deaths in Gaza are unspeakably heart-breaking for me to hear over the news, especially considering how many of those deaths are children. The conflict between Israel and Palestine may take an eternity to solve; but it is the mismanagement in governments and political motivations, greed, lack of respect or consideration, etc., that is the truly guilty party here. Innocent civilians just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, bringing with it more grief & sorrow over the loss of life -- and more anger and desire for retaliation with it...
All I can say is how very very sorry I am, regardless of whether the life that is lost is Palestinian or Israeli (or a New Yorker who went to work that day in the World Trade Center buildings on 9/11). Loss and Grief feel like the heart has been ripped out of one's chest, and the hole that is left in that heart will never ever heal.
And re. Facebook:
I refuse to join it. I have not liked it in the first place, and I continue to see the down-side of it, more than any real value to it.
- Ken
I detest fascebook. That having been said though i've heard about the deaths of a number of friends that I would not have heard about otherwise. A number of these were friends I knew in college, others were folks I knew from science fiction fandom.
If it weren't for facebook I would never have heard about their deahts. (When I was in college none of use had email addresses,
we were only able to connect with these friends through organizations that had a presence on Facebook.)
Also in a number of groups that I belong to they've taken to posting news/events/announcements/etc. to facebook rather than
email or on the web.
As someone who has never lived in nor ever visited any part of the Middle East, the Israeli- Palestinian conflict often seems way too complex and confusing for me to know what to "do"; so I do the following:
1) I pay attention to the News (I tend to prefer listening to NPR / BBC, listening as often as possible and for as long as I can endure, without getting myself too depressed about it)
2) I pray for Peace... I don't always know HOW to "pray for peace"; but I try, anyway.
3) I do care about human suffering, want to see an end to the suffering, want to see more fairness, kindness, more humanitarian treatment of others, more respect and common regard for others... the list goes on & on.
4) And then I torture myself by listening to the news yet AGAIN... if for no other reason, then let's just say it's to stay "aware", and also to educate myself more on these matters.
5) And then I start all over again praying for peace YET AGAIN.
My late friend Hester was Jewish, born & raised a New Yorker before moving to California as a young adult; but oddly enough, she was extremely pro-Pelestine in her political views.
As a typical dumb blonde and clueless American, I've learned to keep my mouth shut about things that are way beyond my comprehension -- but I LISTEN... I listen to my Palestinian neighbor who owns the corner grocery store. I listen to a co-worker of mine who happens to be Jewish and sympathetic towards Israel. And then I go back to my radio here at work, deciding to sacrifice listening to music in order to keep myself updated on even more depressing World News...
I see no other solution but to continue to pray for Peace -- I'll just have to learn how to pray harder.
- Ken
Hey Ken,
Have to say I really agree with your summery on the topic at hand.Being I really don't know the "nuts and bolts" deep issues of the Middle East I hardly feel I'm qualified to armchair quarterback what needs to be done to put this to rest once and for all.All I can see is its a horrible situation with no easy way out.With that said thank you Ken for your level headed response my friend.Cheers
Mârk
There are only three ways to end a war: (1) The parties BOTH amicably agree to stop it and to continue forward in peace, (2) The parties are geographically separated enough that they can just let the hostilities die out, and (3) One party sends in the military, crushes the opponent's government, and replaces it with a military occupation for as long as it takes. The goal must not be retribution, but rather, peace.
The first two scenarios are not going to happen, so that leaves the third, which is how World War II was settled. The sooner Israel realizes this, the sooner there will be peace, and in time the better off both sides will be.
Like many people, I have always felt that what was done in 1948 was a bad idea, but the planet is for the living, and we have to deal with the way things are on the ground now. I have a close German friend. Should we blame each other for what our ancestors did to each other a few years before either of us were even born? I say not.
As other say, and I agree, the best option is always....
Peace, (Sadly, force must sometimes be used to achieve it. That's why we have peace officers.)
Bill
Very well said. Sometimes, when constructive dialogue fails to resolve conflict, harmony can only be achieved through the distasteful action. It's a sad but harsh truth.
It is a terrible situation. Neither side appears to be willing to ake peace its first priority. A donation sounds like a very good idea, thanks for suggesting it.
I am sympathetic to the people of Palestine who are getting hurt in this situation. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Hamas government that put them in the situation by firing weapons at Israeli territory from the middle of civilian populated areas, making them a target.
And just out of curiosity, what does my level of caring for human suffering have to do with the length of my hair? One can be the personification of Mother Teresa with a shaved head, or can be a complete ass with hair down to the floor. There is no relation.
Well he did say IMHO so it was stated as his opinion, not fact.