new thread
Hello everyone. Some of the stuff I have written has to do with Orthodox Christianity, but is not meant to attempt to convert anyone, not intended to hurt anyone, and not intended to be disrespectful to anyone. It is intended to clear up some false conceptions of the Church as regards hair. I am glad to be posting again. I am job-searching but off of leave, so I am free to fly. I still have the hair. January marks a year since I had anything so close as a trim. So, hopefully this continues. I have been lurking, but have an old cell phone, so can't really post from it as the text gets garbled.
It has been nice to follow the discussion and see everyone's pictures. I enjoyed seeing DaveAR's pictures of down-town BA- sweet view man! ¡Viva la vida! muchacho. Quiero decirte, que sigo que tienes un pais y una cuidad bonitos. En los tiempos malos recuerde de este tiempo bueno, lo ayudararte mucho. Tengo 31, y ya en mi vida tuve algo tiempo bonito, ahora es muy dificil para mi pero tengo las memorias del otro tiempo, a veces memorias hacen una vida. Espero que todo vaya bien para ti.
*Basically I am wishing DaveAR well in Spanish and congratulating him on moving into down-town BA.
My hair is getting long enough in the front, due to not cutting it in about a year and a half to put back and keep there. I grew out my hair once before and found the most annoying part was waiting for the front to grow long enough to look half-way decent. Meaning, it looked like it belonged with the rest of the hair. So, knowing that I feel more myself with hair that is longer, I resolved to keep growing it out as far as possible and if I had to compromise on length somewhere, compromise on the length in back. I did this last January and the result is that my hair can be put back and for the most part, barring a few strands in the very front (I have a flat hairline in front, no witch's peak.).
The good part of the last 4 weeks of having no work amongst other things, is not being in a potentially harassing environment. I have realized that yet again in a place where they are critical of hair length, they are not kind to their employees in other ways. In this case the hair length thing is definitely a power trip.
I have figured out what I am going to tell people in interviews regarding having longer hair and a beard, that I am doing it for health reasons. I figure that it is a mental health issue to be able to have an intact self-body image. My intact self-body image includes longer hair and a beard. Hopefully the interviewers will not make an issue of it in the first place. If they do, I am hoping the mental health thing covers it. Mental health has such a low-brow view by so many people in the U.S. (I am dealing with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder after a traumatic childhood, been through stuff no one should ever go through), so hopefully this sort of statement can deliver a two-for-one blow. People in the U.S. also seem to not want to touch mental health issues with a ten foot pole (about 2.5 meters long, U.S colloquial idiom), and in conservative areas seem to still attach a stigma to mental health issues, even in the employment arena.
It has been encouraging to me over the past few months to be able to read the posts here because at least twice or three times I considered cutting it. I realized I was up-set that I could not put everything back like I wanted to, but it will be about two more inches in the front till I can do that, so not that much longer! I cannot wait! Then it is comb, tail and go! I cannot figure out why people think short hair is easier to deal with. After the grow-out, long hair is so much better looking and needs less styling. I think that is for me a difference from women in this factor. Most men do not want up-dos, most women do want up-dos.
Contrary to popular belief, the Orthodox Christians have no problem with long hair on men. What St. Paul is addressing mainly is that men should not be dressing their hair as women were doing at that time. At the time St. Paul was writing it was common for stylish Greek women to put pearls, jewels and tiaras in their hair. All he was saying was that men should look like men and women should be given the space to make themselves up as is customary. He was actually giving great respect to both men and women. In effect, St. Paul was leaving open a space for women to be women and men to be men.
In fact most of the Orthodox Saints are written in the icons as having long hair, and so is Jesus. In the present day, many Orthodox Christian monks will often shave their hair entirely and then never cut it again. Other Orthodox Christian monks will just grow their hair out from whatever length it is when they take their monastic vows. Many Orthodox Christian Priests will also grow out their hair and tie it back. So, from the ancient past when Moses and King David (whom Orthodox Christians consider to be Saints too) were alive until our present day the Church has never had any hair dogma(dogma- official teaching) other than what St. Paul said.
Roman Catholic and Protestant confessions might have come up with other ideas, but the Church has never mandated short hair on men. Like I said above, nothing in all this information is intended to be rude or disrespectful, just informative and to clear some mis-conceptions about the Church.
Happy Christmas and New Year to everyone who celebrates these things.
Be well all. I will post how and when I can.
Native Carolinian
If it is of any help, I am an Anglican priest belonging to a "continuing church", the Anglican Catholic Church. It is a fairly conservative Church, but I have had no problems on account of long hair. I don't know of any other long-haired priests in our Church.
On this forum, there is an Australian rabbi and an American Roman Catholic priest. Many of us are Christian believers or believers in other faiths, and others are not believers. We are very diverse, but amazingly tolerant and good to each other.
You may find in some Christian communities an insistence on short hair for men, especially in the USA, but many Churches are open. Very few priests have long hair in the western churches, and many Orthodox priests have short hair and beards.
I have been growing my own hair for 16 months, and it's coming on well. It can be something of a joke with some of the female members of our Church, but everything is in good humour.
If you would like to contact me in private, you can do so by clicking on "Anthony" at the top of this posting. I have written a few things on this forum, and there is my blog (link below), where you can look up "long hair".
You're in good company here, and you can also find a lot of practical advice about looking after your hair and dealing with "conservative" prejudice.
Anthony
My blog
It is good to hear that the Anglican Confession has no issue with your hair :).
Glad to be in such company. I fully respect people's right to choose their beliefs and to act on them in a respectful manner.
Many confessions in the U.S. do have mis-conceptions regarding hair. I happen to live in an area where they are the dominant social groups. This contributes greatly to the lack of respect for people who are different.
Glad your hair progress is coming along nicely.
Thank you for the invitation, I might do that.
Glad to be in a group of people who accepts and respects each other for who they are. Looking forward to further years on the forum :).
All the best.
Native Carolinian
Yes, it is a health issue, and it is "mental" in that it is in the neurological (brain) part of the body, not in the physiological part. However, it is not a sign of mental unhealthiness. This ground has already been covered when it comes to sexual orientation, and the issues are identical. Some states have recognized that the healthy way to deal with one's sexual orientation is to leave it alone, and they've outlawed attempting to change the sexual orientation of minors. What is healthy is to remain the way that you turned out to be.
This has recently become recognized as the same situation with one's gender identity. The concepts espoused by Paul as expressed in your next paragraph run contrary to what we now know. "Sexual orientation" is what other people you are attracted to, while "gender identity" is what kind of person you perceive yourself as being. However, people speak of the LGBT community for a reason. The two concepts are heavily intertwined into, together, forming who you really are.
In our case, we call our subset of "gender identity" as being a "born longhair". Some members of society may wish that we look one way, but it is our inborn nature to look another. The only difference between what transgender people experience and what born longhairs experience is that for one group the departure and arrival destinations are rooted in different sexes, while in the other, they are rooted in the same.
I am not a shorthaired man, and since my earliest memory I have never seen myself as such. Generally all of us who are born longhairs say the same thing, and this is exactly what transgender people say about the sex that they are. And what both gay and straight people say about their own sexual orientation is the same. It is inborn. It is how our minds are made, as assuredly as our race is how our bodies are made.
Yes, it is mental, because it is in the neurological part of your body, but it is healthy, not unhealthful. So you are not a mental patient, because you are not sick!
Continue to celebrate the beautiful person that you are!
Bill
1. As a born longhair, I see having my long hair as part of my manhood. My gender identity is "longhaired male", and my hair is part of what to me makes me a man. It is not in the least any manifestation of what some people would call "a feminine side".
2. As a longhaired man, I am healthy. Those who would attempt to change my gender identity are embarking on a course that would for me be unhealthy. Indeed, Native, you are right. It is a health issue, and health considerations come down solidly on letting my long hair be.
3. You mentioned your beard. I am the same way about mine, and also about wearing certain clothing. Those items are either an actual part of your body or perceived by yourself as such. They can be part of one's gender identity. I would no more go without my long hair, beard, or usual clothing than I would wear a dress. To go that route would place me outside of my gender identity, and to me, I would be cross-dressing to appear that way. Attempts to force one to cross-dress would be seen by almost everyone as highly abusive and as having a highly adverse mental health outcome for the victim. People must be made to understand that would be the effect of what they have in mind of doing. It is indeed a health issue.
Bill
I agree entirely Bill. I was mentioning this as a point that the culture in the U.S. often tries to use as a weapon against men with log hair.
I agree entirely with this too. For me it is also a cultural issue as my people have always had long hair and no one thinks it is wrong. It connects me with my people and with the land, the plants and the animals.
I absolutely agree with this statement too Bill. Thank you for solidly seconding what I said, I appreciate it. It gives me more confidence as I approach job situations and applications. Thanks also for your support of Native Pride, it really means a lot.
Native Carolinian
Hey Ken,
Just wanted to let you know that I respect you for who you are and I do not feel any ill-will towards you. I tried coming out as homosexual myself, and I know the kinds of mal-treatment in the community that can result because of it. One is just trying to be honest about who one is with oneself after many years of searching. The mal-treatment is wrong. At work I started to be discriminated against due to having come out. People were so cruel. There was all kind of talk behind my back and rumors flying around. Homosexuality is taken differently in most Native American cultures and I have a built in cultural bent on it that lends towards loving the person and seeking the best for them as part of the whole group. One would not kick someone out of the tribe for being homosexual, it simply would not happen. Clear boundaries would be established to respect everyone and keep everyone safe, but I cannot see someone being mal-treated.
Take care Ken :)
Native Carolinian
As far as trans-gendered folks, I have a really big soft spot for them because I think that we should have a third gender option of "Hermaphrodite". Some people simply are made with both male and female bits and I think to some extent that estrogen washes in the womb can be linked to how the brain is wired. Estrogen washes in the womb are well known and understood to be capable of altering brain chemistry in an unborn boy. I think this must be taken under consideration in more earnest in understanding attraction in humans. I fully agree with leaving the kids alone as per what their orientation is and I further believe we should leave their bodies alone and let physical hermaphrodites be themselves. I think in light of the estrogen wash of the unborn children, that science would be right to develop a way of noting this in other ways in humans. Perhaps homosexual inclination is linked directly with estrogen washes in unborn male children. In women, this would not hold and there could be another mechanism which triggers the attraction. Environment is also a contributing factor as well as culture. In other words, I do not agree with homosexual behavior, but I love and respect homosexuals in a heterosexual way.
This past Summer, I was finally able to resolve my own gender issues. Due to the abuse I was through as a kid, this process was delayed. I ended up trying to come out as homosexual but it did not work, and I discovered that I am heterosexual. But I can empathize with homosexuals from the standpoint that when I came out at work, I was ostracized and discriminated against rapidly.
Like I said, my gender issues come from abuse and I was finally able to figure that out. The relief of coming out though was huge and like a pressure lifted off of me. I however balanced my up-bringing and was trying to relate cross-culturally at the same time. I was trying to interact in close cross-cultural relationships with people of European background. I had tried this as a kid, but being mixed European and Native American and having been raised in a more Native way than European, I was not prepared to engage in these kinds of relationships. In the past, I thought it was just because I was amongst the Pennsylvania Dutch, but now that I am outside of that environment, I am realizing how differently I was raised and how much Native culture is important to me.
Thank you Bill for your touching words. I appreciate this. It is nice to get support for my issues. I am in the process of trying to apply at Starbucks. They do not seem to have issues with color and gender identity. At least two videos showed men with long hair on their web-site, and women wearing very short cuts. I am hoping to apply there and be accepted for employment because they have a positive up-building team orientated culture. I can do that :). I know I will be able to let my Native side out and not have to hide it, it would be so nice to get a job there.
Take care Bill, until next time.
The Hindu religion also values long hair. Lord Vishnu takes form in one of his reincarnations. A rock carving in the Badami caves dating to 1500 AD, about 100 km north of Bangalore, India. The rock carving is 6 ft. tall.
Don