new thread
Although Dave_AR's post has brought this topic to mind, I'm putting it in a new thread. I don't in the least want to detract from his excitement about his identity issues and the excitement others are sharing with him there.
Those who have not been here for a long time may want to know about this site's history:
MLHH was founded 18 years ago by male longhair refugees from a general long hair site that was heavily populated by longhaired women and their boyfriends. The boyfriends, more than the ladies, were put off by the idea that men existed who wanted to have long hair and saw it as masculine. If someone has a fetish, it's often a turnoff to see the "wrong sex" displaying it, so this was not particularly surprising. But the situation revealed itself in antagonism between the male longhairs and the others who used the site. In this environment, the longhaired men picked up and moved. The creation of MLHH was the result.
As is still the case, one of the two most common slurs thrown at longhairs was, "You look like a girl." (The other being, "Get a haircut.") Older guys could deal with this, but quite a few young longhairs were arriving on our doorstep having suffered verbal (and often physical) abuse over their hair, and they needed a space where discussion of the slightest connection of long hair with femininity was verboten. Just as women's support groups may exclude all men from among their ranks because the needs of the most vulnerable require it, MLHH put up some walls to protect its most vulnerable users. Trolls (and actually some who did not have malicious intent) tested MLHH's boundaries in its earlier years, so this need was not due to just conjecture.
Paragraph 17 of the General FAQ
Attitudes have surely changed in the last fifteen years or so, but some may wonder, "Have they changed enough?" This is something the trustees would ultimately need to decide, and I'd say "How the younger guys feel" would be the most important thing to look at. Who are we "there for"? What about the young guys who see themselves as not the least bit gay or girly, but they are born longhairs? Who will provide an appropriate space for them, one where they are not challenged about their identity, if we don't?
One thing I'd add about Paragraph 17 in the General FAQ: Although it mentions "transgenders", in reality it speaks of "male to female" (MTF) transgenders. In all its years, we have never had any FTMs to my knowledge come here because they needed our help in feeling masculine. Why? Because almost all of them cut their hair extremely short in pursuit of that quest.
One thing to avoid is arguing over the meaning of words. I remember one time that this was discussed, and someone said "Men's" was the very first word in our name, while others who had changed their sex argued that they WERE men. The first group of course disagreed. Why arguing over the meaning of words doesn't bring about answers is, of course, if the site were to choose any other word to supplant "men", those on the other side of the argument would try to assert that they are that, too.
Instead, since we are a support group, we have to look at who our target audience is, and what approach will be the most supportive of them, no matter what words folks may use to describe what the guidelines are.
We probably aren't to a point where we'd make a change (men are still being abused about their long hair on feminine grounds here in liberal San Francisco), but my best guess is that such is down the pike. It's helpful to make an effort to foresee upcoming needed changes, rather than to stumble blindly into them.
Bill
Hi Bill,
There's always great value in understanding our history and how MLHH first got its start. If we don't completely understand our humble beginnings, we are not as likely to be as clear-thinking and decisive about what's best for our future.
It will be interesting to watch events as they unfold in the days to come...
- Ken
I have also found this resume of MLHH's history very interesting and logical. It is also interesting that men's gender identity also comes into it. It is part of the self-discovery of all of us, even though many of us are settled the way we are as biological males and live as "ordinary guys".
I don't think we have anything to worry about, since we are unlikely to getting an inflow of unsympathetic shorthaired men saying that we are all effeminate. I hope my own reflections have not undermined good resolutions. We seem to be all committed to liberal values and being inclusive of all.
I run a blog and occasionally get troll attacks. I simply cut out the rot surgically and post new articles on different subjects, and the whole thing heals up very nicely. I don't anticipate any problems here.
Anthony
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My blog
I believe MLHH has always accepted women who are supportive of long haired men. Lucy clearly fits in that category.
With your first sentence I totally agree. I don't know who Lucy is, so I can't address that.
The site has always accepted all people who are supportive of its mission, which is to support longhaired men. However, management has always remained with longhaired men. That does help assure that we don't stray from our mission.
Bill
DaveAR's new female first name is one that usually shortens to Lucy. I can't even remember the full version.
I came for the hair care advice. I stayed because we are a close knit group of guys that we can shoot the breeze with.
And I think that that is our most valuable asset. It's a good place where we can come together to have a place where us men could be men.
And that sentiment may be what keeps MLHH just a place for men long after all prejudice may have subsided. It's not lost on many of us that at parties where both sexes are present, often the men end up in one room and the women in another!
The tendency among humans to group by sex may be a part of human nature that goes back to when the men spent their days as hunters and the women as gatherers, many millennia ago.
Bill
Brilliant point...well made Bill