new thread
Hi all, its been awhile since I posted, just not much I have to say I guess. So I work for a pretty big corporation that is pretty stuck in the early first half of the 1900s when it comes to appearance. However since they are public they have all the HR rules and "diversity" things of a modern corporation. So the rules relevant to my situation are specific male hair rules, which are:
"Hairstyles and hair color should be worn in a businesslike manner. Hair should not cover any part of the eyes, and should not extend below the upper half of the ear,
nor below the top of the shirt collar in the back."
I have the last 2 weeks used really strong pomade and a hair tie to do a small bun for work. My last manager seemed fine with this, but he just left and the new one does not like the way I do my hair. My current manager seems to hate ponytails, but is willing to overlook the obvious rule violation of my hair extending below my shirt collar. As I slick back my hair sometimes and leave it loose at the back. The current manager pulled me into his office and said he is going to have HR decide this issue.
So, what I am looking for is advice on how to convince the HR rep to allow me to pull my hair back in a neat bun, to be "businesslike", which to me is a very vague term. This will keep the hair off my ears and neck. I am thinking a gender discrimination approach, as women have a separate specific rule to tie up hair in certain job types (but don't think that will fly that well unless you all see it differently), or a simple argument that pulling my hair back is "businesslike" as that is how I wear my hair for business and fits into the hard rules of hair "extending" past ears and shirt collar.
If you got through all that... What do you all think?
The way I see it there are there are basically two options.
1. You can try the gender discrimination approach which may or may not work. But it is worth giving it a try.
2. If #1 doesn't work you have the option of trying another job.
There are plenty of jobs out there which allow you to have long hair. I'd quit before cutting my hair.
I've been very lucky in recent years, i've worked for my current
employer for the last thirty years, and they allow me to have long hair. (There is also a guy on the loading dock who also has long hair.
I'm really surprised that companies still dictate how long employees' hair can be. That seems overly controlling to me. It is reasonable to ask an employee to pull it back, but actually cutting it?
It is also deeply sexist. Men and women have different rules for appearance? What an unfair, sexist double standard. Can you imagine them firing a woman for cutting her hair short? For wearing pants?
I luckily work for a very liberal company. Lots of long haired men and we can even wear shorts in the summertime. I'm not even sure there is a dress code. It's also one of the most profitable companies in the world, so obviously dress codes don't affect the bottom line.
OK, off my soapbox now!
ADVICE STARTS HERE:
I think you should be very nice in your HR interview. Let them know you love your job, that you have never had any performance issues, and that your hair has no affect on your efficiency, performance, output, office relationships, etc. Try to be reasonable and professional, not emotional. The main takeaway should be that you do a good job and you get along with your coworkers. Your hair is incidental.
Offer to pull it back and keep it within the standards of business professional, just like the other people with long hair in your office. You don't have to mention that these other people are women. Let HR bring that up, if they want to go down that route.
Anyway, hope this helps and my diatribe didn't get in the way of offering you solid advice. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
That isn't far fetched. My mother worked for many years at the state house in Massachusetts. To this day they have a rule that women can't wear pants.
And there are some employees who will complain if women have hair that is too short.
Thanks guys for the advice . I will handle the situation very unemotionally stressing job performance and coworker relations, and letting HR bring up any possible discriminatory violations built into the "appearance guidelines", at least their enforcement. I will argue that I will keep it put together and neat to be "businesslike".
I actually have quite a bit I can work with, as what the HR rep decides isn't "binding" it can get very involved if I don't accept their decision. The situation can go through several steps all the way to legal arbitration in which actual legal arguments based on gender discrimination via Civil Rights Act and legislation can be argued. By then I will be on the job hunt. I hope it doesn't go that far and it ends with the Rep on my side. My manager already said he will accept the Reps decision and won't mention it again if they side with me.
I will let you all know how it goes when this HR sit down happens. Maybe tomorrow...
The legal position depends on where you are. DC is the only 'state' (yeah, I know it isn't one) in the US where 'hairstyle' is a 'protected class' (legal jargon for something you can't discriminate over). The EOC point out that the courts have failed to uphold their view that different hair rules constitute gender discrimination. Sadly, saying that the EOC agree with us but the courts don't will not get anyone anywhere.
So that leaves male longhairs outside Washington DC with only protection on religious grounds. If you are a Sikh that may work. If you claim to be Native American that may also work, but if you are very diluted it may be a lot harder.
Despite the bleak legal situation, most of us have gainful employment.
In Europe, there is Article 10, protecting 'self expression'. Each country has its own legal system, though, which can apply the same law differently.
I am not a lawyer, just a patent agent, which amongst other things means that I can only provide a legal opinion on patent law! However, Bill Choissier is a lawyer (albeit retired, and long after leaving the law for a different career). For that matter, I think he is licenced in Illinois, but I know he lives in California.
What is EOC?
I am in California, so we will see how everything goes as far as legal standing. I am really just praying that things go my way, and I can convince the HR rep I am not, and don't intend to be, in violation of policy.
If needs be you should be able to find a liberal employer in
California.
Equal Opportunity Commission
Due to recent intense advocacy by transgender groups, California now defines "gender" as follows:
“Gender” means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender expression. “Gender expression” means a person’s gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.
Court decisions about long hair on men go back for decades. Few take this definition into account, because they preceded its adoption. Therefore, one must be careful when giving too much weight to court decisions or news stories one might find.
"Gender identity" is the phrase that the transgender community has in recent years used to describe what longhaired men call being a "born longhair". The term "gender identity" is showing up in numerous legal documents as of late, but nothing I've ever seen says it only applies to transgender people. Everyone has a gender identity. It only gets talked about when one has a minority gender identity, though, and transgender people and longhaired men are such people.
Hair and clothing are part of one's gender identity and gender expression. There are cases where MTF transgenders have won the right to wear what they regard as feminine clothing and HAVE LONG HAIR. And I can't speak for other born longhairs, but for me, having my long hair is part of what makes me feel like a man; there's no feminine component to it whatsoever. Note the last part of the italicized definition above - one's appearance NEED NOT be "stereotypically associated" (read that "like the majority") with one's assigned sex at birth.
I know one MTF transgender who went from short hair and men's clothing to long hair and flowing gowns when she transitioned. To be herself, she needs that hair and clothing. We went to the zoo with her one day, and she was wearing high heels and flowing clothing that was surely too hot. She had the longest hair of any woman I saw in the place. Other women there were wearing shorts and tennis shoes, and my friend's high heels were hard to walk in there. But that clothing and hair was part of what she needed to feel like a woman.
So good to hear this. It is time for people to move beyond the conception of man from the idea of the machismo that has existed in this country for so long. There are brain studies that have been carried out which have found that 15%-20% of both men and women are wired to be more sensitive to stimuli than the other 80%-85%. This is called being a "highly sensitive person" or "HSP" in abbreviation. HSPs are often times the artistic types and those of us who have a non-traditional (in the U.S.) job for our sex such as being a male nurse. When one looks at HSPs, one finds that these people are often the ones in the creative arts, and most of those in the creative arts have long hair. There are those who do not feel whole without having long hair.
The idea that one cannot be a man and have long hair is ridiculous and as someone who definitely identifies as an HSP I will say that I have never fitted into the traditional U.S. model of the machismo man/male. It has only been recently since meeting two other HSP men that I have realized how special this trait really can be and how enlivening it is. The trait is neutral biologically, but for those of us wired this way, especially men it is hard to work within the traditional U.S. machismo male world. HSP men relate to each other in a strongly loving intimate way, that, for the non-homosexual ones on a platonic basis. I mention this because this is part of male gender identity and is counter-cultural to the machismo culture of the U.S. I strongly suggest that you look up Dr. Elaine Aron and Dr.Ted Zeff, and read some of their articles which are on-line. The two of them also published a few books about HSPs and Dr. Ted Zeff published one on HSP Men specifically because we are wired extremely differently than our non-HSP male counterparts.
HSP men have a tendency to be extremely nurturing fathers, connect well with kids generally, and relate to the world in generally non-violent way. Again, this is part of male gender identity and is not the norm in the U.S. When one looks at a lot of aboriginal cultures around the world, one sees many where the men are much more nurturing to their children than in the U.S. The U.S. seems to have been founded by many types who could not fit into that kind of society where they originated (aka Europeans who colonized here). So, this trait may well be less encountered in the U.S. in general but nevertheless forms a part of male gender identity. HSPs are definitely a minority due to sheer numbers. So, maybe check it out on-line and take the HSP test and take this in if they give you a hard time about your hair if you score highly on it.
Hope this helps.
Thank you Bill. If it goes this far I will definitely utilize whatever I can. I feel "born a longhair". That resonates with me and is part of my identity as a man. I simply hate cutting my hair. I am always upset when I do even as a kid. The legal/historical overview of Raj Singh in "The significance of male hair" resonates as well, especially the clipping of head hair as servile submission. Thank you for another possible legal avenue to explore as gender identity.
Where I stand now is still waiting for the initial HR meeting with my manager present. I have one boss telling me leave it in a bun (slicked back and the back tied up) and another who is really bothered by the bun and I need to slick it back and he will overlook that it is touching my collar (eventually it will be longer than my collar and we will be back at odds).... both bosses say because their preferred way is more professional/businesslike. My impression is that HR will side with keeping tied up, as there is one man at my level that was hired with long dreadlocks that he keeps tied up. I am hoping for the same resolution. Then I will be all smiles. I will keep you all updated as it develops.
If you take this seriously, i.e., go far with it, be sure to get a California attorney on board early. Pursuit of a discrimination case is laden with minefields of meeting deadlines and the like. Also, your case would be following an evolving area of the law, and one especially needs an attorney to succeed with such a case.
If your identity is amenable to it, wearing your hair up in a bun or in some other way that is not necessarily your preferred way, but which can be switched in and out of, would be a viable compromise. One fact to always remember when you have a hair discrimination case is that hair is not like clothing. You can't have what they want for your hair for the minority of time each week that you are working for them, and have what your identity requires your hair be for the rest of time each week, which is the majority of it by far. Hair, unlike clothing, cannot be switched in and out of.
Of course, your identity may not be amenable to such a "compromise" look. Otherwise, we'd see few transgender cases involving clothing, and we do. Some "looks" to an individual are unacceptable even for a short time. This is something you'd discuss with your attorney before going to battle.
Good luck!
Bill
Unfortunately, my "identity" as far as race or religion does not require it. My religion, Eastern Orthodox Christian, encourages beards (would grow one but the rules are explicit for not having one unless religiously required) for men and long hair, but it is by no means a requirement.
I am willing to "wear" my hair in whatever fashion they want just not willing to clip it. I hope this does not go to needing an attorney. I do not have the funds for that kind of fight. My manager is on vacation so it won't be this week the the HR sit down happens. I'll just have to wait till he gets back.
I'm Orthodox too. Nice to have a brother on the board :).
Nice to see another Orthodox on the board. Where abouts do you live?
I live in the Northeast of the U.S. We have Serbian, OCA and Greek where I am, so Serbian and Ecumenical Patriarchies for the most part. North of me are quite a few former Uniate parishes. St. Alexis Toth of Wilkesbarre was active in the region. St. Tikhon's Monastery is north of me by about 2.5 hours.
Are you going to be able to make it to the Elevation of the two new Serbian Saints? Patriarch Irenej is going to come to Alhambra, California from Beograd. It is happening in the first week or two of September. As far as I know the Elevation is happening at St. Steven's in Alhambra. I am not going because it is too costly to get there. If it were in Washington D.C., New York City or Philadelphia then it would be doable.
Hope all is well with you.
I'm not sure what to tell you except what has been said and its to act professional, tell them you like your job. I am not exactly sure how you can tell them that your hair has no effect on your work. Being yourself and being comfortable probably makes you a better happier employee.
I live in Seattle, I think the capitol of long hair and buns. I know people who work at Amazon and are managers who travel to meeting around the country and have hair to their butt and its out half the time. My neighbor works for Microsoft and has mid back blonde hair. My hair is almost mid back and has been for 22 years. I worked for a fairly conservative company for a long time and I asked them what they thought of my hair one time and they looked at me like? They had no real comment except to say it was ok with them and I was a lead in my department. I also dealt with external customers pretty regularly and later all internal people on a one on one basis working on their problems in a tech job. I even spoke at two national conferences and my hair didn't stop them from inviting me.
I don't think Boeing in most cases, certainly not Starbucks or any companies here make you cut your hair. I only know one guy who cut his hair for a company and he moved into a upper management position and it was a suggestion for various reasons and even then it was still long, over his collar for sure, just not quite to his shoulder blades. I don't know who you work for or where it's located but I agree anymore it's rather backward in the thinking. I do know some places here have the concept that if people are allowed to be them selves, they are more creative and productive simply because they are not put into a uncomfortable box but are allowed to be them selves. Seems to make sense. I see a lot of pretty happy workers around here with buns and long hair.
Hello,
I studied HR management. I think that you can sue them for discrimination if they force you to cut your hair.
Maybe you have to say that long hair is part of your identity/religion because I know Muslims for example can grow beards. I think even at McDo they have the right to have beards.