new thread
I was reading through a few of the archives just now and noticed that it turns out that there was a slightly heated battle going on within this board back in July of this year concerning the events of last September the 11th, long hair, running away from a draft if one was put into motion, etc. (I did not discover this board until late August). I DO NOT wish to start a battle all over again, but some of the posts that I read really rubbed me the wrong way & some of the posts that I read really made a ton of sense to me and I totally agreed with a few of you. I do not wish to mention any names here, but there were a few of you that should've won a medal for your posts and there were a few of you that I was really ashamed of. I absolutely love my long hair...I'm 34 and have had long hair since the age of 16...some years a little shorter than others and some years a little longer than others, but my hair has always been past my shoulders. I have been fortunate to have parents through the years who have understood that a "long hair" is who I am...it is still a battle with my Mother to this very day at times, but none the less they have let me be who I am. I have been fortunate enough to use my college degree to my advantage and shop around for employers that would accept my long hair...although I am getting burnt out on the "office environment". I have been fortunate enough to get married to a very lovely lady who absolutely loves my long hair and encourages me to "grow it longer". I have been fortunate to have friends (some short hair and some long hair) who accept me for who I am. And the list could go on and on...but if I had the opportunity (or was asked...either voluntarily or lawfully) to serve my country and fight for the freedom that my country gives me, then I would not hesitate for a second to getting my head shaved and picking up arms to defend this country I live in...the USA. PUSSY?! Yes, that's the word I would use for all of you who would run to Canada to avoid the situation!!! I do not like the government at all...I think that whether you're a Democrat or a Republican...Washington D.C. is a city full of liars, cheats, and thieves. Money - and lots of it - is what drives Washington D.C. and all the politicians who reside there...taking money from the mighty lobby groups for that all important "vote" that the politicians receive in return so that they can continue to live in the lap of luxury in Washington D.C. But no matter how I feel about our government, I love this country and I am so thankful every day that I was born in this country as an American...an American who would die for the freedom that this country allows each and every one of us. If you don't believe this country is so great, then just do a little research and look at how many immigrants (most illegal) come into this country EVERY DAY!!! They aren't coming into this country for nothing...they are coming into this country because they KNOW it is the best nation in the entire world. Our ancestors shed a ton of blood so that you and I could live as free as we do now...most people don't understand that - or maybe don't care about that. Look, all of us long hairs are a brotherhood...and I face the same stereotypes as you do, I face the same discrimination that you do when looking for a job, I get the same uncomfortable stares that you do, etc. but I then look in the mirror and love my hair...but if I had to cut it to fight for this country, then I would do it in a heart beat! I live in the Atlanta area so the events of September the 11th didn't have a "direct" affect on my personal life, but it did indeed have an affect on my life as an American! Listen, I would faint if we ever had a President with a ponytail (wouldn't that be Awesome?!)...that day could very well come one day...keep your fingers crossed! All I'm saying is this, "Yes long hair is great, and I am so proud to be part of this board and so proud to be part of this brotherhood...but not wanting to defend your country because you don't want to cut your hair is kind of immature and childesh...don't you think?!" I remember sitting in my college dorm room with a few buddies (and ladies) when we were bombing Iraq in the early '90's...we all were glued to CNN for what seemed like months. CNN was on our tv 24 hours a day back then - I was just a youngster back then hanging out with my teased out '80's glam-metal, Bon Jovi hair...but I remember thinking, "what is really going on? what are we really watching here on this tv screen?, etc" Just sit back and think of what freedoms you have - yes, I know the whole "big brother" concept of the government, but even with that - you've got to admit that you are very lucky to be an American! You have the freedom to "choose" to have long hair - although at times you're life might be a little bit more of a challenge than the short haired "preppy, GQ" type - you still have the freedom to have long hair. I didn't mean to get on such a tiff, but just got all worked up over a few of the posts that I read in the archives section. Sorry.
SPEEDRACER,
Can you please repost your message and separate into paragraphs. Having everything in one great big paragraph makes it too hard to read. I will delete this message and your original after you have reposted it, but I'll leave your original here until then so you can copy/paste to the new message.
Speedracer, don't you mean "another" president with a ponytail? Go back and look at some of the early presidents, with ribbons no less!
Anyway, I never weighed into the summer debate on this topic, however there are those of us who oppose war as a means to settling conflict, and it has nothing to do with being a "pussy". Some very courageous people refuse to go to war. Going to Canada can also be a way of living out your convictions. It would also be an example of people leaving here because it's not quite so wonderful, always, on every score. And people coming here realize that economically it is where the power is.
The fact is that we depend on being able to use and manipulate the poor of the world to make our clothes and grow our coffee. Look at the labels in your clothing. Poor people, sometimes imprisoned people, in China, Haiti, Guatemala, Thailand, Burma, Maylasia, etc. made them--in most cases for pennies a day while the American company who pieced out the work there continues to charge us the prices that they do for the few American clothes still made here. All that extra cash--going into the pockets of company owners.
We have a president hellbent on going to war over oil (convenient that we have terrorists to blame for it). The current estimate is 200 billions dollars to make war with Iraq. The Gulf War cost 79 Billion. For the first time in 8 years the number of Americans living in poverty rose this past year.
We control a lot of the world's wealth. We are the only nuclear superpower. We piss off a lot of people. Courageous Americans, in my view, are those asking the difficult questions about the course we are on and how we might change our course and make for better partners in the world--without making war.
Length of hair--irrelevent.
Robert
Excellent response! I appreciate your opinions, and you spoke your opinions very well! Like I said, I simply got on a "ranting & raving" kick of an emotional outburst. Thanks again for your response.
(don't you mean "another" president with a ponytail? Go back and look at some of the early presidents, with ribbons no less!)
Yes, I completely understand the history of our founding fathers...I was looking more toward present day Presidents.
(The fact is that we depend on being able to use and manipulate the poor of the world to make our clothes and grow our coffee. Look at the labels in your clothing. Poor people, sometimes imprisoned people, in China, Haiti, Guatemala, Thailand, Burma, Maylasia, etc. made them--in most cases for pennies a day while the American company who pieced out the work there continues to charge us the prices that they do for the few American clothes still made here. All that extra cash--going into the pockets of company owners.)
Like I said, our wonderful government & the free market allows this to happen...and I don't like it anymore than you do.
(We have a president hellbent on going to war over oil (convenient that we have terrorists to blame for it). The current estimate is 200 billions dollars to make war with Iraq. The Gulf War cost 79 Billion. For the first time in 8 years the number of Americans living in poverty rose this past year.)
I don't think it is 100% about oil, but oil is definitely a big feature here.
(We control a lot of the world's wealth. We are the only nuclear superpower. We piss off a lot of people. Courageous Americans, in my view, are those asking the difficult questions about the course we are on and how we might change our course and make for better partners in the world--without making war.)
Thanks again for your excellent responses.
As a non-American from the 3rd World, hats off to u both.
I was reading through a few of the archives just now and noticed that it turns out that there was a slightly heated battle going on within this board back in July of this year concerning the events of last September the 11th, long hair, running away from a draft if one was put into motion, etc. (I did not discover this board until late August). I DO NOT wish to start a battle all over again, but some of the posts that I read really rubbed me the wrong way & some of the posts that I read really made a ton of sense to me and I totally agreed with a few of you. I do not wish to mention any names here, but there were a few of you that should've won a medal for your posts and there were a few of you that I was really ashamed of.
I absolutely love my long hair...I'm 34 and have had long hair since the age of 16...some years a little shorter than others and some years a little longer than others, but my hair has always been past my shoulders. I have been fortunate to have parents through the years who have understood that a "long hair" is who I am...it is still a battle with my Mother to this very day at times, but none the less they have let me be who I am. I have been fortunate enough to use my college degree to my advantage and shop around for employers that would accept my long hair...although I am getting burnt out on the "office environment". I have been fortunate enough to get married to a very lovely lady who absolutely loves my long hair and encourages me to "grow it longer". I have been fortunate to have friends (some short hair and some long hair) who accept me for who I am. And the list could go on and on...but if I had the opportunity (or was asked...either voluntarily or lawfully) to serve my country and fight for the freedom that my country gives me, then I would not hesitate for a second to getting my head shaved and picking up arms to defend this country I live in...the USA.
PUSSY?! Yes, that's the word I would use for all of you who would run to Canada to avoid the situation!!! I do not like the government at all...I think that whether you're a Democrat or a Republican...Washington D.C. is a city full of liars, cheats, and thieves. Money - and lots of it - is what drives Washington D.C. and all the politicians who reside there...taking money from the mighty lobby groups for that all important "vote" that the politicians receive in return so that they can continue to live in the lap of luxury in Washington D.C. But no matter how I feel about our government, I love this country and I am so thankful every day that I was born in this country as an American...an American who would die for the freedom that this country allows each and every one of us.
If you don't believe this country is so great, then just do a little research and look at how many immigrants (most illegal) come into this country EVERY DAY!!! They aren't coming into this country for nothing...they are coming into this country because they KNOW it is the best nation in the entire world. Our ancestors shed a ton of blood so that you and I could live as free as we do now...most people don't understand that - or maybe don't care about that.
Look, all of us long hairs are a brotherhood...and I face the same stereotypes as you do, I face the same discrimination that you do when looking for a job, I get the same uncomfortable stares that you do, etc. but I then look in the mirror and love my hair...but if I had to cut it to fight for this country, then I would do it in a heart beat! I live in the Atlanta area so the events of September the 11th didn't have a "direct" affect on my personal life, but it did indeed have an affect on my life as an American!
Listen, I would faint if we ever had a President with a ponytail (wouldn't that be Awesome?!)...that day could very well come one day...keep your fingers crossed! All I'm saying is this, "Yes long hair is great, and I am so proud to be part of this board and so proud to be part of this brotherhood...but not wanting to defend your country because you don't want to cut your hair is kind of immature and childesh...don't you think?!"
I remember sitting in my college dorm room with a few buddies (and ladies) when we were bombing Iraq in the early '90's...we all were glued to CNN for what seemed like months. CNN was on our tv 24 hours a day back then - I was just a youngster back then hanging out with my teased out '80's glam-metal, Bon Jovi hair...but I remember thinking, "what is really going on? what are we really watching here on this tv screen?, etc" Just sit back and think of what freedoms you have - yes, I know the whole "big brother" concept of the government, but even with that - you've got to admit that you are very lucky to be an American! You have the freedom to "choose" to have long hair - although at times you're life might be a little bit more of a challenge than the short haired "preppy, GQ" type - you still have the freedom to have long hair. I didn't mean to get on such a tiff, but just got all worked up over a few of the posts that I read in the archives section. Sorry.
All the pros and cons of war are a bit off topic here in my eye, but what is very much on topic here is that men with long hair should be allowed to serve, if that is their choice.
Discrimination is not in the nation's interest in employment, military or otherwise, because it deprives the nation of the productive labor of some of its citizens. Disrespecting the identities of citizens deprives the nation of their loyalty. The labor and loyalty of its citizens is something no nation should want to lose.
This shortsighted problem with the U.S. military is nothing new of course. It's been going on with gay people for decades, and before that it was black people. The U.S. military is not alone in having discrimination problems - fighting forces of most other nations are burdened with them in some form or another, too.
One can argue about the relative values of conflicting loyalties in others, but in each man these will be resolved within, in the manner that makes him the most strong. People fight for what makes them strong, but this is not counter to the nation's interest. Strong citizens are what makes a strong nation.
Men have long hair for various reasons, ranging from the frivolous to ones that reach into the greatest depths of one's soul. Some have long hair due to religious convictions or an innate life-long identity. Men with deep convictions can make great warriors, but the military or the nation will not earn the loyalty of such men by disrespecting them.
As a longhaired men's support community, I see our mission as being twofold - to advocate for acceptance of long hair in the military, and in the interim, to support each brother in whatever decision he for himself makes.
(All the pros and cons of war are a bit off topic here in my eye)
Like I said in my follow up to Robert...excellent response! I greatly appreciate your insight...and do indeed apologize for getting a few steps off subject with my post.
(Discrimination is not in the nation's interest in employment, military or otherwise, because it deprives the nation of the productive labor of some of its citizens. Disrespecting the identities of citizens deprives the nation of their loyalty. The labor and loyalty of its citizens is something no nation should want to lose.)
Indeed.
(This shortsighted problem with the U.S. military is nothing new of course. It's been going on with gay people for decades, and before that it was black people. The U.S. military is not alone in having discrimination problems - fighting forces of most other nations are burdened with them in some form or another, too.)
Please help me with history - but was it the ancient Romans who first were the ones to tie "short hair" and "military" together? Didn't they crop their hair so that their enemies would have less to grab in the close hand to hand combat of those times?
(One can argue about the relative values of conflicting loyalties in others, but in each man these will be resolved within, in the manner that makes him the most strong. People fight for what makes them strong, but this is not counter to the nation's interest. Strong citizens are what makes a strong nation.)
Indeed.
(Men have long hair for various reasons, ranging from the frivolous to ones that reach into the greatest depths of one's soul. Some have long hair due to religious convictions or an innate life-long identity. Men with deep convictions can make great warriors, but the military or the nation will not earn the loyalty of such men by disrespecting them.)
Indeed.
(As a longhaired men's support community, I see our mission as being twofold - to advocate for acceptance of long hair in the military, and in the interim, to support each brother in whatever decision he for himself makes.)
Thanks again for your insight...yes, it is our mission to stick together and do our best to break down the various barriers that we face - not only for ourselves, but for each other as well.
That's been said, but it was likely more for the reason that they wanted to disrespect them. They also did that to slaves and men they conquered, men whom they wished to distrespect. I'd doubt they wanted to make men they'd conquered better at combat.
In today's fighting forces, most positions do not involve hand to hand combat - there are plenty of other tasks a longhaired man could do.
The short answer is that when you agree to join the military, you do so on their terms. It is about teamwork to the point of life and death. In movies, everything is clean and exciting. In real life war even now, staying clean is difficult. Long hair takes extra care. WIth a shaved head I could walk out of the shower, dress and be out the door in minutes. With long hair greater care must be taken. If you think long hair would work in the military (war) - think again. Think of you being on the USS COLE and being pinned below deck by a steel beam pinning you down by your long hair and you yelling don't cut my hair and other guys are trying get your out before an explosion, etc.
They allow female recruits to keep their hair at shoulder length when they are first inducted into the military, don't they? They don't get that humiliating headshave induction haircut like all male recruits do. What do women do when put in the same filthy dirty situations that men experience? Can't men do the same thing with their hair as women do with their hair in these same situations? Or are women treated differently because of their sex?
Wow, I never even gave it a thought about women and the military. I have no idea what is allowed and what is not allowed. Men and women should not be treated any differently in the military. But I understood, but don't know, that women are not put in combat or go to the front line in war? Am I right? There are not women marines, are there?
Nothing personal to anyone, but there is no way in hell I ever intend on being in the military by choice or draft. I would fight them to the end, and keep my hair, and stay alive to live another day. The military can kiss my ass.
I especialy don't like seeing kids that aere 18 being killed, or haveing their whole life messed up. I think the fact that the military is so discriminatory, is one reason they have trouble getting people anymore. Why should you have your life and your choices lived or decided for you.
Right On!
RIGHT ON!! I totally agree and would do the same to defend the US of A. My father and grandfather are veterans.
Keep on growing!!