new thread
Not so long ago, someone posted a message and links to anti-longhair sites. One of these was a religious site maintained by a pastor. I sent him an email today to challenge his assumptions and opinions. I pasted the communication below. My conclusion from his reponse is that he is a close-minded individual with prejudices. He believes his perception is the only correct perception of this ancient journal. He chooses only parts of the bible he agrees with, the rest I can only assume that he does not agree with. Just to think that he preeches to others every Sunday, must be a dictatorship church, because he does not like to be questioned.
---Pasted email thread communication ---
Silly arguments? So that is your answer when confronted with a "Critical Thinker"? I gave you quotes directly from the bible, and confronted you with a valid argument. You pre-judge others from their appearance. Is this not an ignorant act? You interpret the bible with your own perceptions of what it says and agree only with certain sections of it, while ignoring or not agreeing with other sections.
The bible is a journal that contains nothing more than opinions and assumptions based on no supporting facts, nor research, nor science. I have my own bible which contains my own beliefs and values, not of others' beliefs and values. I am open-minded and I question all assumptions and opinions and evaluate them to construct my own.
I have only one question for you and you can answer this to yourself if you wish. The bible was written by man, do you think it is possible that there are some tales or lies written within and how do you distinguish fact from fiction?
If you are really that gullible and close-minded that man did not lie or write from their emotions in those days, then there is really no point in discussing anything with you.
Have a wonderful life and do not pre-judge other humans, because you have no power or right to make such judgments.
-----Original Message-----
From: E. L. Bynum [mailto:baptist@tbaptist.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:50 AM
To: Farley, Bruce, CCARE
Subject: Re: Long Hair on Men--The truth is out there
Since you do not believe the Bible, it would be useless for me to answer your silly arguments. I wish the best for you, and that would be to come to the knowledge of the truth.
E. L. Bynum
Isaiah 40:8, "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
VISIT OUR WEB PAGE: http://www.llano.net/baptist/
----- Original Message -----
From: Farley, Bruce, CCARE
To: baptist@tbaptist.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: Long Hair on Men--The truth is out there
Hi Pastor,
I could not help but notice on your site that you claim that the bible says men should not wear their hair long. If reading the bible as a whole and not just one phrase (opinion) here and there, you will discover that the majority of opinions from that time disputes your argument. I believe your mind was tampered with from serving in the military that men should only wear short hair. Nonetheless, it comes down to opinions and that is it. The bible is a large journal of individual thoughts and opinions and therefore do not hold much in facts. Below is some more information from the bible pertaining to hair on men.
Many Christians claim that God does not want men to have long hair. They are wrong: God loves long-haired men.
According to God's law, a man must not cut the hair at the sides of his head and he must not clip the edges of his beard. (Leviticus 19:27) If a man is a NazariteÑone who is specially dedicated to God - he must not cut his hair at all. (Numbers 6:5)
The Bible tells us that Absalom, king David's son, was the most handsome man in all Israel: he cut his hair only once a year. (2 Samuel 14:25)
The apostle Paul, however, wrote: "Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?" (l Corinthians 11:14). But nature teaches us nothing of the sort. Perhaps Paul, who was bald, was jealous of men who had long hair. He had also repudiated God's law, so he felt free to invent laws of his own. (Galatians 2:16, etc.)
Jesus, however, did not repudiate God's law. ÒDo not think that I came to abolish the law or the prophets... For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass away until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:17-18).
We can therefore safely conclude, on biblical evidence, that Jesus, too, had long hair and a long beard, just as orthodox Jews have to this very day. So fellows, if you fear God, love Jesus, and want to be the most handsome men in the land, get your hair cut only once a year. And never shave.
Read the Bible!
It's unfortunate but many Christians seem to be bitter and angry about their faith. I'm sure this guy has read the Bible, but it seems he hasn't taken any of it to heart. Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "judge not lest ye be judged". Jesus is the ultimate symbol of love and accepts everyone no matter what. This "pastor" does not seem Christ-like at all. Here's a better example of how a Christian should think about hair:
http://www.nhbc.org/DaisyaDay/DAD043.htm
Just another way to make people feel bad about themselves, it's easier to control people if you encourage their low self-esteem (old knowledge that has been exploited well by religions).
What he is admitting to is that "god" created the human body to be naturally "evil". Makes sense doesn't it? "God" creates evil, "god"="evil".
That is an interesting analogy. If I lived close to you, I'd be discussing these views with you over a BBQ :-)
I was looking for a friendly debate with him, but that does not look like it will happen. He merely has tunnel vision with his views and that is that. How one thinks that hair, which continually grows on our head, is only meant to be continually cut--one would think we are fighting nature.
He wouldn't be interested in a real debate anyway, they never are and don't possess the skills anyway. He isn't intrested in finding friends but rather wants to get people to accept his limited personal view of things. It's not just about long hair so trying to get him to "see the light" is a futile exercise. Best to just do your own thing as his views become more outdated everyday.
I generally avoid trying to reason with the unreasonable...
Narrow minded people are always impossible to reason with. They choose only the evidence which suite them.
It's a great pity that the many churches and religious organisations, which could work separately or together tp do a tremendous amount of good in this world waste a lot of time at worst stirring up hatred and at best nit picking over trivia.
I am a believer, but my God is very practical. I expect to be judged on whether I have tried to do good during my life, and whether I truly regret the bad things I have done. I don't expect to be quizzed over the length of my hair. It's one of many personal choices in life which is, in abstract, neither good nor bad, (but on a personal level is definitely good).
Claiming Paul was jealous because he was bald would turn most pastors against you. You might be better off pointing out that the word he uses for hair is never used anywhere in the Bible except that chapter and it mean long locks or a specific kind of braid. That letter was written to the church in Corinth and that city was well known for its prostitution. Through out the Roman empire being called a Corithian girl was slang for a whore. Perhaps the pimps in Corinth wore their hair in a specific long braid or prehaps it identified one as being part of some other religion an Paul wanted the men of the church to realise that. If a pastor cannot except an explination simalar to that then he must resolve why long hair is a good thing in the Bible until that point. Its mute point though. Paul doesn't say it is sin just a shame and that there is no custom regarding it amoung the church.
Without modesty I tell you I have a theological degree from Yale, so have some training in Biblical interpretation and historical scholarship.
First off, you must understand that fundamentalists, of whatever strip, are ignorant. They are also frightened and anxious, and are grasping after certainty -- of which of course there is none. They will tell you, of course, that their cerntainty is:
Jesus Christ their lard (sic) and savior. But if Jesus were really their "LORD" they would realize that he tossed out rigid conformity to rules, and made the criteria for right living respect for the creator / creation and love of fellow persons.
Fundamenrlist of all persuasions have little love, little learning, and little compasion.
Frankly, If I had to choose between a Christian fundamentalist and an Islamic fundamentalist, I'd go the Islamic route.
I come from an educated protestant tradition, which is neglegent in in its tolerance for bigotted ignorance of fundamentalist christians.
There will be 100,000 sermons this sunday condemning the Supreme Court for its ruling on the Texas , so called "Sodomy Case." As a clinical psychologist, who has seen many of these fundamentalist families in treatment for family violence, that they truly need family values -- but they might even learn something from the homosexuals if their hearts were really open to their "LOard." (sic)
James Harrison
... made the criteria for right living respect for the creator / creation and love of fellow persons.
That's really the crux of the matter. If the ten commandments are the basis of all laws, as we are told in the Bible, then which particular commandment is long hair supposed to break?
Perhaps these bigots should learn that the most important of the commandments is to love one's neighbour. The exact meaning of that phrase can be ebated for ever, but it is basically a clear message for tolerance.
While I strongly disagree with the pastor's approach, I do not however agree with your arguments regarding Absalom and Paul. Given Absalom's life other than his hair, I would not want to have him as a role model. As regards Paul, many people do not realise that Paul is not laying down a rule here, and is taking an example from the then Greek culture, to make a point, which is not about hair, but about the manner in which one should approach the Lord's table. And those who fling this verse out of context at us longhairs conveniently forget the other verses in that passage about women not having short hair, covering their heads etc.
I do not also agree with some of your statements about the Bible, but this is not the forum to argue about it.
It makes me sad to hear of people like this pastor. They are the successors of the Pharisees of Jesus' time, who "strain out gnats and swallow camels." It is a pity that he forgets that the Lord Himself says "Man looks on the outward appearance- God looks on the heart"
Oh well - there we go, but for the grace of God.
The difference between the pastor and myself is that I am open-minded enough to hear other views and evaluate them, including yours. Since I do not belong or practice any specific religion, I have a tendency to play "Devils Advocate" (Probably poor choice of words for this subject).
Which I appreciate. Even Paul says "be transformed by the renewing of your mind" which would be difficult to do if close-minded. Which is probably why the pastor is stuck where he is.
it's people like this that give REAL Christians a bad name and bad reputation, it's just people who try to use things like the Bible to support their own opinions by taking things out of context constantly, all of us arent like that it's just a few fools that like to cause problems
i am a christian and i consider myself to be very libral and open-minded, i believe in Jesus
and what the Bible says but it does NOT say anything about personal apperances or hair. (and even if you find stuff about hair, it tends to lean more towards long hair anyway)
that stuff isnt important really, it's up to the individual to choose what they want to look and dress like
you want long hair? FINE, you want short-hair? FINE as well
thats the whole idea behind freedom of choice
this so called "pastor" is just somebody who trys to controll other people, don't bother wasteing time with him, he's too stubern to listen to anybody elses ideas
You call this person a pastor? I don't!!! First of all, there is only one person without sin, our Lord. How can a sinner like this tell others how to live? I'd like to ask him, "Where is your crown, King Nothing?!!! Secondly, I have had a catholic ordained priest bless my home every two years. He would sit and talk about things afterwards, but not once has he brought up the subject of me having long hair or criticised me for having it. This is a true priest. Lastly, remember the parable of the rich man who dressed in purple linen, and the poor man who was covered in sores and ate the table scraps of the rich man. Who went to heaven? The poor man did!!! Who went to "the place of torment"? The rich man. Why? Because he had a hard heart. This "pastor" reminds me of this rich man. Besides, God told Samuel to write: "God does NOT care about appearance, he cares about what's in your heart." This parable reflects this statement.
>>First of all, there is only one person without sin, our Lord.
I am without sin. Sin is a religious term and you may accept it but I don't. The anti-longhair pastor saw longhairs as sinners...but you also apparently see everyone as sinners. If what you imagine for everyone else is true then can someone else from another religion imagine you to be something that you don't believe in and it actually be true?
"If what you imagine for everyone else is true then can someone else from another religion imagine you to be something that you don't believe in and it actually be true?"
Great question!